Chris Hanna – Hire 4 Me

On this episode of Authentic Business Adventures, host James Kademan speaks with Chris Hannah, the owner of Hire 4 Me, a company that helps small business owners find the right staff to alleviate the burden of doing everything themselves.
Chris shares his unique perspective on entrepreneurship, hiring, and the value of time. He discusses how his personal experiences led him to create Hire 4 Me, the importance of solving problems in business, and the similarities between poker skills and business skills. Chris also shares insight into the value of flexibility and genuine fulfillment in one’s work.
The episode is brought to you by Calls On Call and The Bold Business Book.
Enjoy!

Visit Chris at: Hire4Me.ca
Authentic Business Adventures Podcast

James Kademan [00:00:00]:

You have found authentic business adventures business program that brings struggle, stories and triumphs and successes of business owners across the land. Downloadable audio episodes can be found in the podcast link. Founded drawincustomerscom we are locally underwritten by the bank of Sun Prairie. If you’re listening to this on the web, be sure to think of your comment, hit that big ol like button and of course, subscribe. Today we’re welcoming, preparing to learn from Chris Hannah, the owner of Hire for Me, Inc. That’s four with the number four. And I got to say, Chris, I’m excited to talk to you because in my meeting with my manager today, she tells me, hey, we got some employees that aren’t doing so hot. And I imagine that’s a common thing for business owners to hear.

Chris Hanna [00:00:46]:

Yes.

James Kademan [00:00:46]:

And I’m like, oh, great, we get to go on this hiring spree again. So that’s well, maybe not spree, but we get to hire a couple of people. So, yeah, so tell me, let’s just start with what is Hire For Me? And we will just go from there.

Chris Hanna [00:00:58]:

Well, thanks for first having me on the show. Hire for Me is really about how I came up with this business idea. I was talking with a lot of business owners and they were all saying that they’re frustrated, they’re absolutely miserable because they’re doing everything in their own business. They’re the chief everyone officer, wearing every single hat, sales, marketing, ops, it finance, you name it, right? And they’re like, I wish someone could hire for me because I would give them advice. But they kept saying, I wish someone could hire for me. So I’m driving back from an event and I’m like, I can solve this problem. I can actually go out and I can hire for these small business owners, these solopreneurs, and make their life easier because some people, they just don’t have the experience of having hired or trained or really led a team before. But over 20 years, across a variety of industries, I’ve hired, lead, and promoted over 500 people. So I was like, why don’t I just use that skill and that talent in a different way and create a business around it?

James Kademan [00:01:50]:

So you started this. And tell me, ideal client, just describe who is this? Who’s coming to you?

Chris Hanna [00:01:57]:

Well, most of the people that I’m supporting are those true solopreneurs. They’re the people who are actually already successful. I seem to attract a lot of people who are like, in real estate, but they’re people who are looking for customer service, admin, marketing, salespeople. They are doing everything on their own. They’re typically a few years into their business, I’d say like between two to five years. They’re in their business, but they’ve gotten to the point where they know that they need to hire, they need to scale, all right? They don’t want to do it anymore by themselves or they’re losing business because they can’t actually fulfill as quick as they possibly could.

James Kademan [00:02:32]:

All right, so today is it as easy as someone coming to you and they’re like, hey, Chris, I have XYZ business. Let’s just say I’m a plumber. I need another plumber. I can come to you and you’ll wave your magic wand and stuff.

Chris Hanna [00:02:47]:

So those are the only roles that I won’t do. I don’t do trades.

James Kademan [00:02:50]:

Oh, got you.

Chris Hanna [00:02:51]:

Okay. That’s definitely not my lane, right? But I will hire any of those other roles that I can definitely hire virtually as much as possible, whereas trades are a little bit more tougher to do. Right. But I will post for the role. I will write it all up. I will poach for the role. I believe in going and hunting for talent, right? Don’t just post and pray, but hunt for talent. Promote for the role. And then I interview them and I assess them. And as part of my process, I ask for a video from every application as well.

James Kademan [00:03:17]:

Oh, nice. Okay.

Chris Hanna [00:03:18]:

Right? Because I don’t believe in cover letters. I think cover letters are dead. Why don’t you get a video? Which is always such a unique thing to ask a video from someone, because then you get to see more about who they are. You get to understand how they communicate, even their creativity level as well. It doesn’t have to be super creative, but a video shows so much information, so I use it as part of my process.

James Kademan [00:03:38]:

All right, let’s just say a real estate broker comes to you and they’re like, hey, we need a few real estate agents. You can find them.

Chris Hanna [00:03:47]:

Yeah, absolutely. So I sit down and I really ask a lot of great questions. And I think it’s the poker player in me, but I ask a lot of questions to really understand their business, to understand who they are as a person. Because I’m trying to find someone that’s going to fit for them in their leadership style. Because every single person is different. Right. So I’m finding out about who I’m hiring for the business itself, understanding the role, because I’m as hands off as possible. Like, you talk to clients that I’ve worked with, they basically have the intake call with me, and then a couple of weeks later, I bring them a source of, here’s a couple of candidates to take a look at. Let’s have an interview together. They’re hands off the entire time, so.

James Kademan [00:04:28]:

They can just more or less done for you, all right. Until you show up and say, hey.

Chris Hanna [00:04:33]:

I said, here’s two candidates. Let’s choose who you think is best. It’s those people who obviously don’t want to be part of that process, or they’re just busy doing other stuff, like, I’ll trust you, Chris. Run with it. Hire for me, and then we’ll get them in the door. What I added in that helps, though, is onboarding support as well, because one thing to hire, it’s another thing to actually retain your people. So you got to train them all retention.

James Kademan [00:04:59]:

You know, it’s interesting because I’m looking at the market, the employee market, where it was definitely an employee market or employee driven market the past few years safely. Now, I don’t know what your take is, but I feel like it’s starting to shift a little bit to the employer side, I guess. Tell me where you’re seeing that.

Chris Hanna [00:05:20]:

Yeah, it is shifting to the employer side. Right. There are so many companies that have gone through restructuring, needing to let folks go. You’ve got layoffs, terminations across all different sectors. Obviously, there’s a lot of people who are used to working remotely because of what happened over the last few years, but then those privileges are kind of getting pulled back because employers know they’re holding some of the power, which is the unfortunate thing. So this is for this reason, I’m a big believer in that there’s an entrepreneurial revolution that’s coming where more people are going to get fed up as employees and say, I’m going to go create my own stuff because I don’t want to go back into this old school world and thought process that exists.

James Kademan [00:06:00]:

I can appreciate that the concern or maybe not concern, because I guess in the end, I really don’t care. It’s not mine. I feel like there are a lot of employees that are good or good enough employees that I can also see them having the mentality that I can go off and do it on my own. I’ve even had employees go off or an employee that went off and screw James the man, I’m going to go off on my own. And then lo and behold, even I mean, we’re talking five, six years ago, she went off on her own. She’s still struggling. She would have been way better off either staying with me or just finding another job, working for another competitor of ours. She’s just not a good business owner. So it’s interesting because people are like, I can always start on my own. I know how to do this better. And that’s not necessarily the case because I feel like there’s a difference. I know there’s a difference between having a skill set in whatever trade service you do and then being a good entrepreneur, knowing the business world.

Chris Hanna [00:07:01]:

But I also think that there’s this element where some people just want to ultimately try and sometimes they would rather struggle than do a job where they’re miserable in and then try and they’d rather struggle on their own, do 8000 hours in their own job than do 40 hours for somebody else. Get that mentality of why they would try and do it. Hell, I went away from being a CEO, six figure salary to go and start my own business.

James Kademan [00:07:26]:

Yeah, I mean, both of us started our own thing. I imagine the majority of people listening to this have started their own thing. So I’m not saying it’s a bad idea. What I am saying is that I don’t believe that it is a great move for everyone.

Chris Hanna [00:07:39]:

That’s right. Not everyone can be an entrepreneur or a business owner.

James Kademan [00:07:44]:

Yeah.

Chris Hanna [00:07:44]:

Some people are really good as a number two and that’s okay. Or as a partner or just being an employee.

James Kademan [00:07:50]:

And it’s funny because from my point of view, I’m like, you weren’t that great of an employee. So where did you practice? Where did you learn your skill set? You’ve been practicing being kind of subpar for a while. If you were top of the heap or something like that, then have at her, man. Your skills will take you pretty far until your lack of salesmanship can catch up with you. But I don’t know, it’s interesting. I’ve seen a lot of people start businesses that were just not prepared because they didn’t know, and myself included, when I initially started my business, I didn’t know all the stuff about business that I was supposed to know.

Chris Hanna [00:08:32]:

Most people don’t know.

James Kademan [00:08:33]:

Yeah, right. But there’s a mentality. We’re just like, I got to figure this out and there’s others where just like, I don’t have time to figure it out. Either you got to figure it out or you got to go work for someone. Those are your two options.

Chris Hanna [00:08:48]:

Or win the lottery. In 2018, I was in the corporate world and I had decided that I wanted to kind of start to create some side hustles for myself. And I really wanted to create like a speaking business. I didn’t know how to do that right. But I love speaking, I love being on stages, and I wanted to kind of go and start to kind of make some money on the side doing this. I had no idea how to do it, but I was kind of like I was half in, half out trying to protect myself in the corporate world while trying to do this other stuff. And I am so glad that over time that I decided I’m not going to stick it out in working for someone else. I’m going to just remove the safety net because it forces you then to take action. Because if you have that security of a salary behind you, sometimes you’re not going to really push as much as you probably could or should.

James Kademan [00:09:35]:

Fair. There is comfort incompletency. Right?

Chris Hanna [00:09:38]:

Right.

James Kademan [00:09:39]:

Or vice versa, I suppose. So tell me, what was the trigger for you to go off on your own?

Chris Hanna [00:09:44]:

Honestly, it sounds really simple to say, but for me it was fulfillment. Even as a CEO of your real estate education company, I just didn’t feel fulfilled. Even though I was at the top of the company and I was successful, I just wasn’t happy. And I started doing some consulting on the side and literally I’m walking with my wife along the Detroit River. I live here in Windsor, Ontario, Canada, and we’re walking along the river. And she says to me, you’re not really happy as a CEO. You are happy though, consulting and you’re happy doing work that’s truly your own and your own vision. What if you just went all in on it? Because on my wedding ring, it’s all in. And I was going to got married in Vegas, same with my wife, we believe in this all in thing. She’s like, what if you went all in on that? All in on the thing? She goes, It could be tough. She goes, but maybe that’s the right thing, so you’re actually going to be happier. So to me, it was fulfillment. That’s what really pushed me.

James Kademan [00:10:39]:

Interesting. That is smart just to even realize that. Yeah, because there’s a lot of people that just don’t even know if that’s a thing.

Chris Hanna [00:10:47]:

Well, and I felt like even though I’m the CEO of the company, I’m getting more and more stressed out by some situations. I’m getting more frustrated, but I’m also just not really fully in it because I always wanted something more. And I don’t want to live a life of regrets. That’s why I wanted to do the speaking thing back a number of years ago, because I wanted to get up on stage. I’d go to all these conferences and I’d see people speak and I’m like, I can do that. But I never put myself out there. And then I had a realization. I’m like, I don’t want to live a life regrets, I want to live life on my terms.

James Kademan [00:11:18]:

So it’s been a year plus something like that.

Chris Hanna [00:11:22]:

So since I fully have gone all in on my own, it’s been a number of months since I did this. Because I ran higher for me at the same time as being also the CEO of the real estate education company and doing consulting all throughout. So I’ve been basically side hustles for a long time and then about last six months or so, just been totally on my own now. Completely saying, giving up the salary, see you later.

James Kademan [00:11:45]:

All right.

Chris Hanna [00:11:46]:

Really being on my own.

James Kademan [00:11:47]:

So scale, one to ten fulfillment, one being I feel like I live in a burning dumpster. And ten being nirvana has been found. Where are you at?

Chris Hanna [00:11:57]:

I feel so much more fulfilled. I’m definitely like a seven or eight. I think I could be better in the sense that there are challenges of still trying to really go out on your own. The hardest part of trying to build out your own business, in my opinion, is still on that marketing side to put yourself out there, to ultimately find you, connect with the right people, crafting your message, trying to niche it down, getting beyond just referral based business, that is the hardest part. Right. But I feel so much more fulfilled. I’ve got more energy now than I’ve ever had.

James Kademan [00:12:28]:

All right, so you feel like a weight has been released. You can do what you want to do.

Chris Hanna [00:12:33]:

Absolutely. As soon as I was done that next day, I felt a change in myself, and then I gave myself actually a few weeks, actually a couple of months off, where I just actually went on to vacations. Have you kind of enjoyed life a little bit? Because I was just kind of go go for years. And I’m like, now I’m going to design life the way I want to live it. And I think that was the important part. And then my wife also went all in. She’s going back to school to be an interior designer now. Okay. We decided as a family, we’re doing this all in thing on ourselves.

James Kademan [00:13:05]:

So when you told your who did you tell a board when you’re CEO.

Chris Hanna [00:13:11]:

Owner of the company.

James Kademan [00:13:12]:

Okay. You said, hey, funny story, I’m going off on my own. Did he know that you had your I assume it’s a he, maybe sahi, whoever it was, did they know that you had a side hustle of this going on?

Chris Hanna [00:13:25]:

Yeah, I disclosed it. I said I was going to create this business because I thought it could help and thought it was a great business idea. But I was fully transparent on it and, you know, said, I think that, like, I kind of started, like, to prep it leading up to the big conversation to say, I think it’s time for me to move on and add on myself a little bit.

James Kademan [00:13:48]:

It was awkward challenges where they said, like, oh, come on, what are you doing? You crazy.

Chris Hanna [00:13:53]:

Some of that. Yeah, absolutely right. There was some of that. Or like, hey, how do we transition this in the right way? How can we make this work? And I’m like, I’m happy to help elongate the process, to set everything up, because I want to leave on bad terms, but I ultimately just need to do it for myself and for my own kind of health. And I kind of came up from that perspective, and he’s like, that’s what you got to do. That’s what you got to do. I think disappointed, right? I think there’s this feeling, especially if you have a CEO owner situation, like your partners. In a lot of ways, I was the number two, essentially. Then walking away. That is a hard thing to take.

James Kademan [00:14:32]:

Yeah. How long were you number two in that business for?

Chris Hanna [00:14:36]:

Two years.

James Kademan [00:14:37]:

Okay. And were you with them before and you kind of climbed the ladder, more or less. No.

Chris Hanna [00:14:42]:

So I had been in a corporate It manager role before, and then that came to an end, and then I had the opportunity to write. I was looking for just see what else is out there. A VP of operations role came up with this company, and I was like, you know what? I’m just going to apply just for the fun of it and see what kind of happens. I apply, go through the process. They actually did video interviewing as well, like, submit a video beforehand. And I was like, you know what? This seems like something I can actually come in and maybe be successful at. Before I knew it, six months later, he’s like, hey, can you take on just being CEO of the company? So he was CEO just nonchalant, hey.

James Kademan [00:15:19]:

When you get a chance, pick me up a coffee and be CEO of my company.

Chris Hanna [00:15:24]:

Take on CEO of the company. I’m like, I really wasn’t planning on that because I think in the back of my mind, I still knew that I always wanted to do my own thing. I still had that. But I’m like, you know what? I think I could learn a lot. It’s kind of a crazy story to think about. I was in nine and a half years, kind of in this it corporate world, but I was only a manager level, and I went from manager level to that coming to an end, to then going to VP of operations, then to CEO with, like, short time spans. People in my network are like, wow, how did you go from being stuck to then now running a multimillion dollar company.

James Kademan [00:16:02]:

Somehow worked out, and still, even through all that, you just weren’t fulfilled. So you’re like, all right, time to shift gears again.

Chris Hanna [00:16:10]:

Yeah, I’ve done a lot of personality assessments over the course of my career, and every single assessment is always the same thing. It talks about how independent I am, and I never really thought too much into it, but I’m like, as I started to reflect and look back on the journey, like, I’ll be 40 next year, I sit there and I think about, like, over the last 20 years, I have been fired twice throughout my career. And I think part of that is because I’ve been so entrepreneurial, where I drew kind of beat to my own drum a little bit. And this is going to sound like maybe I don’t even know why I’m saying this. This is controversial. We’ll say maybe I’m unemployable.

James Kademan [00:16:49]:

Maybe I think for me, a lot of us are right.

Chris Hanna [00:16:54]:

People who have those tendencies can’t really work for someone else. So I think that’s where the lack of fulfillment came from.

James Kademan [00:17:01]:

Fair. Totally fair. It’s interesting because I imagine it’s a CEO position. You’re probably making a decent salary, but you knew that there was a ceiling of some kind, right? Like, they’re just not going to be like, hey, Chris, funny story. We’re giving you a raise. It’s $10 trillion or whatever. There is a ceiling of some kind because there’s a practicality of what they can make and your value and all that kind of stuff, where when you’re an entrepreneur, at least in theory, there is no ceiling. Because if ever there is one, you can just adapt and pivot what you do to try to create one where there’s not.

Chris Hanna [00:17:40]:

Well, and to me, I think I care so much about time more than even money. I’ve gotten paid quite well at different parts throughout my career, but been miserable. I would rather take the instability of money to have my time to be able to do what I want.

James Kademan [00:17:56]:

Oh, that’s fair. Interesting.

Chris Hanna [00:17:59]:

I value that way more than anything else.

James Kademan [00:18:02]:

I have a buddy that’s in jail, and I just met with him a couple of weeks ago, something like that. And he’s little brother with big brothers, big sisters, so I must have messed up. Anyways, I’m talking to him and I’m like, dude, you’re a young kid, and you have something that just about everybody around you. Maybe not around you in the building, but around you. Nationwide, arguably worldwide, is hunting for we’re striving for it, and that is time. Time to do whatever you want. And granted, he’s still in prison, so what he can do is limited. But I’m like, I got a pile of 30 books that I’d love to read, but it’s just not in the cards, right? I’m nibbling at it. I’m like, you got nothing but time, so you can just immerse yourself in all that. And I get that you want to have the freedom to be like, you know what? Today I’m going to read a book. Maybe I’m just going to garden. Whatever. And in prison, it’s a little bit more finite, which you can do. But still, I’m like, don’t waste this. This is valuable, so you can figure out where you want your life to go when you get out. All that jazz. Yeah, it was very interesting because we as entrepreneurs, as employees, we are very good at building our own prisons, figurative, but definitely confined by that time, in that space, whatever. And he’s in a real one. But it was interesting just to compare them. Yeah, too many similarities.

Chris Hanna [00:19:38]:

I think that you can obviously create your own prison, obviously, with what you do. I’m a person who I really don’t like structure. I hate structure so much. I hate being feeling like I’m boxed in. So this world that I’m living in now or that I’ve kind of become, it’s given me the flexibility. It’s like if I want to work at different times of the day, I will, based on my energy cycle. I’m a big believer in that. Work on the things when you work best. I pump out a ton of video and content. I love doing that. I know certain days that I’m going to do that because that’s the time where I’m going to maximize that to be as most productive as possible. So I’m constantly just trying to figure out, how can I just not work all the time, but work on the things that matter most when it makes sense. But also, if I need to take a break, I need to go for a walk, whatever, for an hour. I’m just going to go for a walk. I’m going to do whatever I need. That flexibility, as opposed to being in a corporate world where it’s like you’re trapped there 830 to 05:00 or whatever it is. I didn’t want that anymore, and I couldn’t handle that.

James Kademan [00:20:39]:

Interesting. So tell me a story about why you chose this business versus something in the real estate or any other bit. Right. Open up an ice cream shop, I don’t know, whatever.

Chris Hanna [00:20:50]:

I think part of it is because I had hired so many people throughout my career. Like when I go back to when I was in university, my job in university was a career advisor. I would literally help people with the resumes interview techniques across the board. So then I was in the car rental business after that. I was in car rental for four and a half years. Worked my way into the branch manager kind of level. Right. And I’m hiring lots of people. And then when I was in it, I’m hiring people. And I’m just constantly found I was like this almost talent scout. And then when people were asking for advice and I was doing consulting and some mentorship and coaching people were like, asking for advice as entrepreneurs, I was like, Well, I can solve that problem. Isn’t that what every business is about, solving a problem? And I was like, well, that’s one problem that I can solve. And then now I still do consulting. So I’m consulting with business owners, and I call it like an all in deep dive where I’m like, that also can relate back to that core process of hiring. Right. And all the businesses that I kind of have or the income streams that I have are tied in a way that it’s all connected back to helping entrepreneurs, in a way, gain time back. Because I had this realization that the person that I’m trying to help is who I was a few years ago. So I can then share the insights and knowledge that I’ve gained. And that’s what I kind of looked at. That’s what made me want to create the business, is like, I had to go through some challenging hires where I hired the wrong people or I made some mistakes, or I didn’t hire and I was burnt out. So I think it’s learning from your own personal experiences in addition to seeing that there’s a problem that you can solve.

James Kademan [00:22:29]:

Yeah, it’s interesting you say that. Hiring some bad people. I had a conversation with an employee two days ago, and I remember thinking to myself, she’s a moron. And then I remember thinking right after that, well, you hired her. What are those like? Where did I go wrong?

Chris Hanna [00:22:51]:

Every single problem that happens in a business, the leaders really kind of need to look at themselves. We might have brought in the wrong person. We maybe miscast them. Maybe they’re in the wrong role. I think that happens quite a bit. Maybe we didn’t give them the instructions that they need the right way. We didn’t maybe have the one on ones and the right conversation. Every problem is a communication problem, but it’s like most problems actually start with leaders. And that’s why when I started doing the speaking business side, I was talking about leadership and the employee experience and the leadership experience because I saw that was the big gap and I would always be the one pointing my finger at myself. It’s like I was a really terrible leader early on in my career, made a lot of mistakes, and therefore I’m trying to share some of those along the way.

James Kademan [00:23:36]:

Sure, that’s how you learn.

Chris Hanna [00:23:38]:

The only way to do it is to share it with other people and also get advice. That’s why I think the mentorship relationship is so critical and important.

James Kademan [00:23:47]:

So tell me, when somebody comes to you, a business owner comes to you and they’re like, hey, we got to hire a person or we got to hire a couple of people, how do you know what a good fit is for that business?

Chris Hanna [00:24:01]:

Well, I have to first understand the leader themselves, what they’re all about, how they communicate, how they operate. Need to understand the business. So it’s obviously taking a look and doing some more research, but I’m asking for a lot of support, some feedback, even using looking at some of their core processes to understand some of that. But it’s like those intake calls that I have with somebody, it’s like 30 to 45 minutes. They’re really quick that I can understand somebody’s business quite easily because, again, I think it’s the poker player in me. I ask questions, I’m reading, looking for tells. I’m trying to understand them. I think that’s one of my superpowers I was told this earlier today, is I can ask really good questions to understand someone’s business.

James Kademan [00:24:42]:

Sure. That’s a huge deal. Very huge deal.

Chris Hanna [00:24:45]:

If I don’t know, I can’t I’m not going to assume. Right. I need to understand what the role is that they’re really trying to go after. And I give them advice too, because a lot of people try and create what I call a unicorn role, where they basically take every skill set possible and everything that they want done and squish into one role. I’m like, no, let’s really understand what are your true needs? How do we pull this out? And I talk about the must have criteria, like, what are the three to five things that you absolutely want this role to have? And then we see if it makes sense.

James Kademan [00:25:17]:

Yeah, it’s interesting that you say that because I remember seeing a post on I think it was LinkedIn and somebody said something like, if you are an employer and you’re asking for a ninja, rock star, unicorn, or any of those things, I forget what they said, just stop, or something of that nature. And I, as an. Employer was just like, we’re not going to hunt for mediocre, I’m going to hunt for a unicorn. And I may be accepting at that time of a goat with a rolled up piece of paper taped on their head.

Chris Hanna [00:25:51]:

Right.

James Kademan [00:25:52]:

Because at that time, finding an employee that could breathe was tough.

Chris Hanna [00:25:55]:

Right.

James Kademan [00:25:56]:

That’s coming around. But it’s interesting that somebody that was not an employer was getting angry that I suppose in all the job positions they were looking at said ninja or rockstar or unicorn.

Chris Hanna [00:26:05]:

Well, those are the worst terms to kind of put it. Like, I’ve got some posts and content on that as well. When you try and ask for a ninja, Jedi, whatever, you’re not going to get the right candidates because people are looking for the right search term to actually apply for jobs. So you’re going to have no idea as a candidate, like, what is that job even all about? So if it’s a marketing role, well, then call like a marketing coordinator and be really specific about what it is, but don’t say you’re looking for a marketing Jedi. What does that mean? Really?

James Kademan [00:26:36]:

Go to the fluorescent light sword.

Chris Hanna [00:26:38]:

Exactly.

James Kademan [00:26:40]:

It’s funny because I call my crew, well, I guess there’s ninjas and rock stars. Not ninjas. I’m sorry, not ninjas, unicorns and rock stars. And then there’s others. B team. Sometimes B team as a role, but I don’t think that I actually put that in my job ads. That would be weird.

Chris Hanna [00:27:05]:

And it is weird that people do it.

James Kademan [00:27:08]:

Yeah, I see it a ton. But it’s interesting, I guess from my point of view, when I saw that post, I guess I didn’t look at it specifically as this is the nomenclature of your job ad. I took it as you as an employer looking for that just your desire is to find someone that perfectly fits this role. And I’m like, yeah, what should we look for someone that half fits the role? Then you’re going to find someone that fits a quarter of the role.

Chris Hanna [00:27:34]:

It’s kind of interesting. If you went to your staff and asked them, how do they introduce themselves to other people that they meet? Like if they go out for dinner or a party or something, how do they introduce themselves with what their job is? Because I’ve done this with staff before, too, where I’ve said, hey, how do you tell so and so about what you do? And some of them have actually really struggle with it. I was like, oh, well, that’s on me, that I’ve created a role. Maybe no sense.

James Kademan [00:27:59]:

Great question. Yeah, very good question. I should ask my crew that because I don’t even know. I do know that they talk about it at a fair amount, as far as I know it’s in a positive light.

Chris Hanna [00:28:09]:

But you might be surprised depending on the relationship that you have with them. Right. Because sometimes because I’ve used some of those other terms, like rock stars or whatever before too and then realizing as I really talk to my team in their one on one. Yeah, I don’t try and call myself that externally, or I try and downplay that, or I just kind of like I just go with the flow with it, because a lot of people also just kind of almost roll their eyes on some of that. Right. I was like, how do you introduce yourself to someone else? That question really opens up a lot of conversations that can help you understand and change your culture and your team, potentially. Too.

James Kademan [00:28:43]:

Yeah.

Chris Hanna [00:28:44]:

You might think the role is something, but they actually think it’s something else.

James Kademan [00:28:48]:

It’s interesting to say that because when we first started, we had business cards for everyone, which is kind of weird because with the call answering service, there’s not a whole lot of people that they’re handing business cards out to. But it’s just one of those, like, every employee needs a business card.

Chris Hanna [00:29:04]:

Right.

James Kademan [00:29:04]:

And I didn’t know what to put for the title, so we were just having fun. We did voicemail vixen, we did answer angel. I was king of the ring. We had everybody wrestling.

Chris Hanna [00:29:16]:

Yeah.

James Kademan [00:29:16]:

It was just playful stuff on the telephone thing.

Chris Hanna [00:29:18]:

Yeah, right.

James Kademan [00:29:19]:

And it was I don’t want to say meaningless, but even when I have to fill out forms and they’re like, what’s your title? I still put King of the ring. And I’ve had people that are just like, I don’t even know what that is. What is the title? Title, to me is meaningless. But I remember hiring the salesperson, and she was so adamant about being I’m an account executive. She was mad because I got her these business cards, whatever. And whatever they said, I don’t even remember dial tone diva. I don’t know, whatever. To me, it was something that would trigger a conversation because someone look at the card and they’re like, oh, he, that’s funny. The ice is broken. Let’s chat a little bit. She wanted to con executive, which to me, I was like, that’s got to be just about the worst thing that you can put on the card, because anytime somebody sees that, they’re like, no, I don’t need to talk to you. A dial tone diva. I’m kind of curious enough to talk to you, but account Executive but it was so interesting how she wanted that title on her business card, so I ended up getting her new business cards.

Chris Hanna [00:30:20]:

Yeah. I think people underestimate how important that title might be for someone. I’ve had lots of those conversations, too, before, where like, oh, if someone wants to be a senior something, or like a director versus just a senior manager or whatever. Right. I think one of the things, as I hear what you say there, it makes me think about the importance of finding the right people for your culture that actually are going to be that are cool with be called a dial diva or whatever. Right. I think finding the right people is so critical that they would embrace that, whereas somebody else is like, no, I’m not going to be that, I’m going to be account executive. That’s it. So all you’re going to address me as it can show? Maybe if there’s a mismatch I’m not saying there wasn’t your case, but like there totally was.

James Kademan [00:31:05]:

She didn’t last a month.

Chris Hanna [00:31:06]:

Okay.

James Kademan [00:31:11]:

Maybe we should have just called her Lazy. I don’t know, that title would have looked weird on the business card. But at any rate, no, she was not a good fit at all. Yeah, not a good fit. So in the end we were just trying to have fun because I feel like people take themselves way too seriously.

Chris Hanna [00:31:27]:

Totally.

James Kademan [00:31:27]:

In her case, to an extreme. But yeah, life goes on.

Chris Hanna [00:31:33]:

Now, I have to ask you this question because I’m so curious. When you had King of the Ring, was because there’s a wrestling influence there or no boxing?

James Kademan [00:31:41]:

A little bit. Yeah. But it was more yeah, I guess I get into that and all that jazz, but it was more I had a very hard time finding a male title.

Chris Hanna [00:31:56]:

I got dial.

James Kademan [00:31:57]:

Tondiva, we had answer, angel, we had voicemail vixen. I don’t know why it was so much easier to come up with female ones.

Chris Hanna [00:32:03]:

Yeah.

James Kademan [00:32:04]:

And it’s funny because we as a crew back then, I remember we were doing brainstorming, trying to come up with these names and stuff like that, just have fun with it and email signatures and stuff like that. And we get a lot of people that are like, oh, that’s pretty cool. Right? Because in the end it’s meaningless. It’s pure fun. Pure fun. Because all we’re doing is answering phones and growing businesses. Right?

Chris Hanna [00:32:28]:

Yeah.

James Kademan [00:32:29]:

It’s not something as simple as vice president of phone answering or something like that.

Chris Hanna [00:32:34]:

Well, nowadays, now you can just brainstorm or using like chat GPT or some AI to help you come up with all.

James Kademan [00:32:39]:

Yeah. Right. Yeah. But King of the Ring has been man, I’ve had that for twelve years.

Chris Hanna [00:32:44]:

Wow.

James Kademan [00:32:45]:

So it’s funny because now I’ll see people at networking events, I’ll be like King of the Ring.

Chris Hanna [00:32:49]:

I think branding yourself is important as part of the entrepreneurial journey, as a business owner, as a leader too.

James Kademan [00:32:56]:

Yeah. It also reminds me, self reflection thing, that there’s no one above in the business. That means if there’s a problem and it gets to me, I have to solve it. There’s no one that I can pass it off to. It’s gone through the filters of my employees and all that kind of stuff. So it’s just you’re the top, which means that you get to deal with all the less than great stuff. Right, totally. Yeah. But in the end, because I’m top, I got the power and experience to make it happen and it’s kind of fun. And it’s one of those it also helps because when you’re filling out these forms and you know that form is going off on some mailing list where you’re just going to get spammed and the marketers are going to do like, I want to talk to every CEO, every president. They’re not searching for king.

Chris Hanna [00:33:52]:

Oh, that’s a great point.

James Kademan [00:33:54]:

Wow. I feel like maybe I’ve reduced my spam by a solid two and a half percent by not entering CEO or president on.

Chris Hanna [00:34:03]:

So now it makes me rethink some stuff because when I first became CEO, I got so much spam. Oh my God, it was ridiculous and I couldn’t believe the amount of stuff that I was getting.

James Kademan [00:34:13]:

Yeah, we hunt for that name when we’re looking for people to look up.

Chris Hanna [00:34:16]:

But like changing it to something king of the ring or whatever, that reduces it, that just blew my mind. That’s good.

James Kademan [00:34:27]:

Plus, it’s way more fun because in the end, when you’re talking to people, I don’t know how many bankers you’ve met where they’re just like vice president of whatever.

Chris Hanna [00:34:34]:

Right.

James Kademan [00:34:35]:

And you’re like, you’re a teller. So I feel like to me it’s also kind of tongue in cheek. Like the title doesn’t mean squat if you don’t if you’re what you’re doing doesn’t back it up. Yeah, I’ve had a ton of people that I know that work at very large companies, fortune 500 companies, and they wear that Fortune 500 thing like a badge. And to me, as the entrepreneur, I’m like, you didn’t start that. You passed an interview. That’s as far as you got. Now you’re wearing this and in another couple of years, either you’re going to quit or be laid off. So it’s kind of one of those, like, that title doesn’t mean anything, at least to me. Maybe to other people. Maybe to them it does.

Chris Hanna [00:35:15]:

I think for some people it matters to them. But I think back to when I used to go to tons of conferences and this is when I’d introduce myself and I’d be like, oh, I’m a manager, or whatever, right. Or whatever the title will be. And then I had the realization I’m more than a title. You know what, I can be whatever. So depending on the room that I go into, I’ll introduce myself multiple different ways. I could talk about hire for me, I could talk about being a consultant, I could talk about my podcast. I talk about being a poker player. Like whatever it is, we are more than just a single title.

James Kademan [00:35:48]:

Yeah, fair. Tell me about the poker thing, because you’ve mentioned that a few times. So are you into poker, sounds like oh, absolutely.

Chris Hanna [00:35:55]:

Yeah, for the last 20 years, definitely played poker. I played a lot online early on in the heyday of 2003, 2004. Yeah, way back. Put myself through university, then I’d play off and on here and there. Last year was my best year ever in terms of just poker. Made more than playing poker than I did as a CEO, actually.

James Kademan [00:36:17]:

Wow.

Chris Hanna [00:36:19]:

I call myself a semi professional gambler because I don’t have the time to do it all the time, all right? But I absolutely just love the game. So I will go down to Vegas every couple of months and I’ll go and I’ll play in tournaments. I play tons online. I just find that suits me quite well. I can play multiple games at once, but it’s a skill that I use in business all the time, too. I will use poker skills definitely when I’m interviewing people, but when I’m also training or I’m putting on an event, I will have a bit of a poker angle to it. As an example, I was hosting event a couple of months back, and I knew I needed to get the audience to engage. Every time the audience then asked a question, I would give them a card, and I say the best five card poker hand at the end of my training session here is going to win some sort of prize. So then that got people to like, oh, that’s clever, but then also to build in that interaction. So I’m like, I want to give out all 52 cards, all right? I want to get that conversation happening. So just getting question, question, question, what’s your favorite color? And then people are like all trying to compete, like, oh, can I trade this card, this card, whatever, right. Whatever it’s going to be. But creating that interaction is important. So I find that the poker stuff in just being like, someone who just loves games, just resonates more with me, and I want to have fun doing something, and I have fun doing that. If I didn’t have to work ever again, that’s what I would do.

James Kademan [00:37:42]:

All right, tell me about the all in. That phrase. Clearly a poker phrase.

Chris Hanna [00:37:49]:

Yes.

James Kademan [00:37:49]:

I don’t know if you’ve ever made a mistake going all in. I know I have, always. So tell me about where that came in, because even on your wedding ring, that’s getting serious here.

Chris Hanna [00:38:00]:

Yeah. So, again, poker has always been a big, huge part of my life. Going to Vegas quite a bit, got married in Vegas. Elvis walked us down the aisle. So we had that traditional ten minute kind of ceremony or whatever, and when we bought our rings and we said, we’re going to have something inscribed on them, and I said, we’re all in. We’re two people who are all in on each other and supporting one another. And that’s just the lifestyle and mentality that I’ve just used. And I never realized until people started pointing it out that I used the phrase all in so much over the last 20 years.

James Kademan [00:38:35]:

All right?

Chris Hanna [00:38:35]:

When I got married six years ago, I was like, you know what? I think at this point, I have to probably just embrace that. That is the kind of the mentality. And my wife and I talk about it like, we’ll be all in on the business, whether it’s your school, whether it’s stuff we’re doing here. We just got to be having that mentality. You’re not always going to win whatever you do, but you can’t just kind of dabble and just be half in, half out.

James Kademan [00:39:00]:

Yeah. 1ft on the diving board doesn’t work.

Chris Hanna [00:39:04]:

Right. Exactly. And I think having that mentality, that resonates with a lot of people, too. So when I’m coaching or consulting, I think that helps people understand, like, oh, I got to fully commit to something. You know, it too there’s so many people who will take courses or they’ll read something, but they don’t take action. Well, I think thinking with that mentality of all in, well, you’re actually going to do something with it.

James Kademan [00:39:27]:

Yeah. The Dablin leads to babbling.

Chris Hanna [00:39:30]:

Right. Great way to look at it. Exactly.

James Kademan [00:39:33]:

Yeah. Interesting. Very cool. Tell me, since you started your business and since you quit being an employee thing, what have been some of the things that you’ve noticed that you didn’t necessarily foresee? Good or bad?

Chris Hanna [00:39:50]:

Good question. Actually, I think that the thing that I didn’t foresee was, I think, just the transition that I needed more time switching from being, like, full time employee to being entrepreneur. That took me longer to switch that almost that mindset that was harder for me to switch off. I’m used to having teams, and then as I’m building it out, especially completely on my own, initially, it was like, well, now I’m kind of doing everything that surprised me, that I’m like, kind of I used to be able to like, I’ll just delegate to this person, this task, this or whatever. Right. And you’re like, Whoa, now it’s all on me. That was, I think, a hard reality. It kind of goes back to the conversation I said about kind of introducing yourself to people. In the early days when I would introduce myself, like, kind of doing the elevator pitch, I started to realize I’m like, I don’t have it fully refined.

James Kademan [00:40:48]:

Oh, sure.

Chris Hanna [00:40:50]:

And I was like, wow. I remember going to an event, and it was actually just like a birthday kind of celebration. And I was a bunch of strangers, and I’m, like, introducing myself to people. And I introduced myself, and I said kind of my spiel. And the person’s like, oh, that’s great. And they just kind of walked off.

James Kademan [00:41:04]:

And I was like, okay.

Chris Hanna [00:41:06]:

And then another person did, and I was like, I got to change my approach as much as I thought, yeah, I’ll just have people knocking on my door right away, wanting to do business. It’s not that easy. It is harder. And the little things about even just, like, how you phrased it to yourself and to other people is important. The other thing, I think that’s been also a challenge is that there’s some days where it can be hard and you’re just like, I got no energy, or I don’t want to do it. And sometimes you just have to persevere and push through because it is maybe sometimes all on you.

James Kademan [00:41:42]:

Oh, yeah.

Chris Hanna [00:41:43]:

So self motivation, while a good why, can obviously help push that. It can be tough, though.

James Kademan [00:41:52]:

Yeah, very true. I’ve learned all that. I remember when I first started my business, the call answering service. I was like, this is incredible. Every small business owner needs this. As soon as I get that phone number, that phone is going to ring constantly. And then you get it and you’re like, It’s not ringing right. What happened? And it’s one of those things like, if you’re the best in the world, but nobody knows that you exist, nobody cares that you’re the best in the world.

Chris Hanna [00:42:21]:

100%. And I think that is probably the big lesson I think that I really learned, right, is that I believe that I have a product and service that can support a lot of people. But how do you still make sure you get it out to as many people as possible? Still? That problem you’re always trying to solve.

James Kademan [00:42:37]:

Awareness is the name of the game.

Chris Hanna [00:42:39]:

What is it, like, 8 billion people on the planet?

James Kademan [00:42:42]:

Something like that. Yeah.

Chris Hanna [00:42:43]:

So there’s one Chris Hannah. So how do I get more people to know Chris Hannah? That is the hardest part.

James Kademan [00:42:49]:

All right. And what have you done to solve that since you started?

Chris Hanna [00:42:52]:

Well, I think I invested in coaching to make sure that I’m helping from a content creation perspective, so then I can make sure that I’m showing up consistently. I love video, so I’m shooting a lot of video. I’m doing things like this, being on podcasts, being introduced to other audiences, providing value, going and networking, just like attending events just to get out and meet people, too. We have been trapped here, at least where I live here in Canada, like, trapped for a while, for the last few years.

James Kademan [00:43:18]:

So getting yeah, my sister lives up there, and it was a very large prison.

Chris Hanna [00:43:22]:

Yeah. So, like, getting out and connecting with other people is critical, important. Forming kind of those connections with just people who are not honestly part of the old network, I think has also been important, too.

James Kademan [00:43:34]:

Okay.

Chris Hanna [00:43:35]:

Right. Because sometimes and I don’t know if you find this, but I found it really hard to talk to people who only had an employee mindset versus getting around other business owners, sparks ideas and collaboration and stuff. Starting to change out sounds terrible, but to change out some of your own network and your circle is a shift that, honestly, I think a lot of people don’t realize the importance of that.

James Kademan [00:44:00]:

Yeah. You become who you hang out with, right? Yeah. I can definitely tell a difference when I talk with people. My wife’s a teacher, so she’ll have some Christmas party or something like that. And when you go to this Christmas party and the teachers are off complaining about students and administrators and all that kind of doing what teachers do, right, because they have to deal with some crap all day, so they get it off their shoulders. And then the spouses are just in the corner trying to figure out what to do. It’s interesting talking to people in that, like, we’re forced to talk to each other, which is fine, but then you just gravitate and find someone that’s on a journey similar to yours, where I call it growth mode, where they’re just interested in advancing. It doesn’t even necessarily have to be a business interested in improving something about themselves. And that conversation is way easier, way more fun than someone who’s just like, I’ve been at the same business for 50 years, I’m going to die there. Probably not by choice. They’re going to find me at my desk five days later.

Chris Hanna [00:45:09]:

Yeah, I think those going through the motion kind of people, I guess, are really tough conversations. And I found that I had too many of those people that would kind of pull me back. And I think if I could go back in time, I’m telling Chris Hannah years ago to have done this, what I’ve just done now.

James Kademan [00:45:28]:

Oh, interesting.

Chris Hanna [00:45:29]:

I should not have listened to so many people or be worried about the perception of others, like what they think about me, because it held me back from being fulfilled and happy, really. I should have just done this when I knew I wanted to do this, as opposed to thinking everyone’s going to give me advice that don’t do it, play it safe, whatever. I was stuck around the wrong people.

James Kademan [00:45:54]:

That’s common, though, right? Because I imagine to a point, some of those people there’s probably comfort in hanging out with them.

Chris Hanna [00:46:01]:

Totally, yeah.

James Kademan [00:46:02]:

Been friends for whatever. Who knows, maybe you play poker with them and they lose a lot, so it’s fun.

Chris Hanna [00:46:08]:

I think the hard part was trying to get to make sure that the family understood, like brothers and all that kind of stuff, because they only know a certain thing. But then when I had the conversation with them, I talk with them about business stuff now all the time. But I had said to them that I think I’ve always been independent. And then my mom’s, the one who said it, she’s like, yes, Christopher, you’ve always been independent. You’ve always done your own thing. And you were always the kid who was running the garage sales and the entrepreneurial kid, you are meant for this. We just never really noticed it really included in until now, it’s been said.

James Kademan [00:46:42]:

Interesting. I can remember my dad a few years after I had started my first business. I started my first one in 2006. I dropped out of college after going for four years. So this was years after that. And my dad’s like, when are you going back to school? And I’m like, I don’t need that piece of paper. I don’t know that I ever did. I just didn’t know what else to do when I got out of high school. So I was told that’s the next step. And I was following other people’s idea of what the best next step was. And I did that enough. I paid for it. Rock and roll. I don’t need that piece of paper. And it was interesting because he was a first generation in his family to get a degree. And then I just put the brakes there.

Chris Hanna [00:47:35]:

Right.

James Kademan [00:47:35]:

And I didn’t mean to be mean or anything. It was just one of those things like, I got my business, I built it, I’m making money, I’m having fun. I got some freedoms that allow me to do what I want. So if I were to go back to college, I feel like I’d be going back into a prison. And if I get that piece of paper, then what do I do with it? Then I get to tell people that I got this piece of paper, and I’m still going to be doing what I’m doing now. So I don’t know that there is any advantage. And that’s an awfully expensive piece of paper.

Chris Hanna [00:48:09]:

Well, and I think the reality is that sometimes it’s only really to get maybe someone’s first job. No one sits there and asks about my degree now, 20 years later.

James Kademan [00:48:19]:

Right.

Chris Hanna [00:48:20]:

The first job. Yeah. They ask where he went to school or whatever after that. It’s the experience that you have both in life and in business. No one cares about the piece of paper.

James Kademan [00:48:30]:

No.

Chris Hanna [00:48:32]:

Somewhere in this house, I don’t know where the piece of paper is, but it’s somewhere. But it’s in a box.

James Kademan [00:48:37]:

Yeah. Not a big deal. It’s interesting. We had a woman apply I don’t know, this is a couple of years ago, and I think she was mid sixty, s, and she had included her grade school transcripts. It took me a little while to look at, like, what am I looking at here? I’m like, this is years ago. I hope that you as a person that have advanced, whether the grades are good or bad, I don’t know that they’re relevant right now.

Chris Hanna [00:49:06]:

Yeah.

James Kademan [00:49:07]:

Because 40 some years have passed since any of this happened. Yeah, it was kind of interesting. And I imagine from her point of view, she hasn’t applied for a job in years. And maybe that was the thing that you did back then, who knows? But it was funny to me.

Chris Hanna [00:49:25]:

Well, I remember in 2011, the first time I got fired, when I was in the car rental business, I was looking for jobs, of course. And I remember some places, like, asking for school stuff, and I was like, that’s ridiculous. It’s so useless.

James Kademan [00:49:42]:

It’s a weird thing because I don’t even know how I’d find my transcripts now, but it’s just one of those things, like, I would expect maybe you know this more than I do because you’re in the hiring industry. Are they just looking for a way to weed through the thousands of applicants that they have? And that’s just lowest hanging fruit or easy, because it’s objective, honestly, I think.

Chris Hanna [00:50:05]:

Some of it is just like the old school mentality.

James Kademan [00:50:08]:

All right.

Chris Hanna [00:50:08]:

Right there’s. Like, they go through and like, well, that’s what everyone thinks that you’re supposed to do. I don’t do that. Doesn’t matter what role it is that I’m going for. I’ll verify employment, but I don’t waste my time doing, like, an education check or a reference check, because references can also be made up quite easily. Yeah, I could get you just like, hey, James, can you just say this, this, and this? If someone calls, references are useless.

James Kademan [00:50:37]:

Yeah, it’s interesting you say that because I was always hoping that someone would make a website where you could give employees reviews. Businesses have their reviews. The five stars, four stars, whatever products have it.

Chris Hanna [00:50:51]:

Yes.

James Kademan [00:50:52]:

Right. And we’re trusting those stars. Right. We don’t know anyone. Maybe it’s Bots that are putting these reviews out. We don’t know. But employees were just like, tell me about you, and based off that, I’ll hire you. But if I had a review, I’m just like, you got three stars from your last employer, and they put a little something or other. Maybe I’m hoping work ethics bump up.

Chris Hanna [00:51:15]:

Imagine how that would work. But yeah, that’s an interesting idea.

James Kademan [00:51:20]:

I don’t know. I’m sure that would be shot down by a lot of people.

Chris Hanna [00:51:23]:

Oh, totally. The closest equivalent I can think of that would be like, a LinkedIn in terms of recommendations, it’s only positive stuff that you would really have on there. It’s not like someone’s going to be like, this is a terrible employee. I’m going to give them one out of five. If I’m my own LinkedIn profile, I’m like, let’s get that deleted off right away.

James Kademan [00:51:41]:

Yeah, right. Interesting. It’s a crazy world. Chris. So, Chris, we got to wrap it up here. Where can people find you so they.

Chris Hanna [00:51:50]:

Can find me on LinkedIn Instagram, TikTok? Chris Hannah show is the username. It’s the same name as my podcast that also I have. And then you can also visit hireforme that’s again, the number four in the middle there, CA to learn more about hiring business, or Chrishanna CA, which talks about all the different other businesses that I have.

James Kademan [00:52:09]:

All right, very cool. And tell me about your podcast really quick.

Chris Hanna [00:52:12]:

Yeah, so my podcast initially started as a one man kind of show. I was talking about how to improve your productivity and performance, but then I changed it this year to actually go and interview other entrepreneurs to share their story, the lessons learned, sometimes the hard way, and then really start to dive. Into how have they kind of gone on this journey, and what is that journey truly all about? It’s very similar to conversation that we’re having here today.

James Kademan [00:52:34]:

Nice. They’re fun, aren’t they?

Chris Hanna [00:52:35]:

Oh, such a blast. And I learned something from every guest.

James Kademan [00:52:38]:

Yeah, somebody asked me, what do I gain from doing the podcast? And I’m like, there is so much knowledge out there because everyone has made some mistakes, and a lot of them made the same mistakes that I made, but there are many that made mistakes that I didn’t even know could be made. And in the end, it’s a fun story. Total blast. So, yeah, it’s just interesting. Super cool. And you get to share it with the world so the world can learn about.

Chris Hanna [00:53:07]:

And I think more people need to share their message with the world, too. Every entrepreneur has got a story, they’ve got a message to share. And I think whether my show, your show, everyone’s show, more people need to get on podcasts and share.

James Kademan [00:53:21]:

Yeah, it’s fun. There’s a lot of knowledge to be shared. It’s interesting you say that, because I was at a coffee shop meeting someone else. I ran into someone I know, she’s got a business, and I’m like, hey, I should get you on the show. And she’s like, I don’t really like talking about what I do. And so I dug a little bit and I learned a little bit more about her story and all that kind of stuff. And I’m like, that’s perfect. But there’s a little bit of shyness there, so it was interesting. So eventually I’ll get her on the show.

Chris Hanna [00:53:54]:

But people overcomplicate it. Overthink it, though, right?

James Kademan [00:53:57]:

Oh, my gosh. Do they ever? Do they ever? Chris, I appreciate you being on the show.

Chris Hanna [00:54:03]:

Thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it. It’s a fun conversation.

James Kademan [00:54:06]:

Yeah, anytime here. This has been Authentic Business Adventures, the business program that brings you the struggle, stories and triumphant successes of business owners across the land. We are locally underwritten by the bank of sun prairie. If you are listening to this on the web, if you could do us a huge favor, big ol thumbs up, subscribe, and of course, arguably most importantly, comment and let us know. Tell us about some of the hiring challenges that you’ve had with your business or even as an employee, because I guess you got to have employees in order to be hired, right? My name is James Kademan, and Authentic Business Adventures is brought to you by Calls on Call, offering call answering and receptionist services for service businesses across the country on the web, at callsoncallcom, as well as the Bold Business Book, a book for the entrepreneur and all of us, available wherever find books are sold. We’d like to thank you, our wonderful, wonderful listeners, as well as our guest, Chris Hannah, the owner of Hire for Me. That’s for number four. Chris, can you tell us that website one more time.

Chris Hanna [00:55:04]:

Yeah. Hireforbe CA perfect.

James Kademan [00:55:07]:

Past episodes can be found morning, noon and night. Podcast link phone at drawincustomerscom. Thank you for listening. I will see you next week. Want you to stay awesome. And if you do nothing else, enjoy your business.

Chris Hanna [00:55:24]:

Our one four.

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