Michelle Seiler Tucker – Seiler Tucker, Author of Exit Rich

We’ve all heard, read and studied ways to build a business.  But what about getting out of your business?  How do you build your business to bring in the most money so that you can get the highest return on your investment?
You see, your business is an investment.  It is not your baby.  We sell investments and we expect to make a profit from them to justify the risk that we endured.
So how do you build your business to sell it?
Listen as Michelle Seiler Tucker, the author of Exit Rich, explains in simple terms the 5 types of business buyers, the 6 P’s you need to focus on to get the biggest return on your investment.  Michelle packed an incredible amount of knowledge in this episode, so take notes and listen again.  These nuggets of business knowledge may be worth thousands or even millions of dollars to you, once you sell.

Authentic Business Adventures Podcast


You have found
Authentic Business Adventures,

the business program, the struggles
stories and triumphant successes

of business owners across the land.
We can be found locally

at the Sun Prairie Media Center as well as
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or any place where
you can find the podcast.

We are locally underwritten
by the Bank of Sun Prairie.

My name is James Kademan, entrepreneur,

author, speaker and helpful coach to small
business owners across the country.

And today we’re welcoming/preparing

to learn from Michelle Seiler Tucker,
the CEO and founder of Seiler Tucker Inc.

Michelle, how are you doing today?

I’m doing great.
How are you doing, James?

I am.
I’m doing well.

I’m actually excited because, one,

I see your books in the titles
and look at your website.

Selling businesses seems to be your game,

which is so awesome because I feel like
a lot of business owners don’t even think

about an exit strategy when they
start the business. They don’t.

And that’s why 80 percent
of businesses don’t sell.

Like Steve Forbes says, 8 out of
10 companies will never sell.

And the number one reason for that is
because business owners don’t think about

selling until catastrophic event has occurred
internal, which is health issues,

partner dispute, divorce or
death, external is just pandemic.

And when your business is in a
catastrophe, that’s really the worst time

to stop because the business
is turning down.

The best time to sell is when your

business is doing well
and you’re in your prime.

But most business owners really never

build a sellable asset
that buyers want to buy.

so and you essentially help business

owners create or build their business
to the point of being a salable asset.

I do.

I’ve been in business
a little over 20 years.

I personally have sold over 500 companies.

My team has sold over a thousand altogether,
A thousand?

A thousand.
But you personally.

So I personally have sold five hundred.

Yes, that’s incredible.

And so my company has
sold over a thousand.

But I learned a long time ago when I

entered this industry that most
businesses are not sellable.

So a long time ago I started
my my business model where

I fixed businesses.

So I don’t just sell them, I fix
them, I grow them.

I put them on a build to sell model

and then sell them for
their desired price tag,

the owners desired price tag
so they too can exit rich.


And so I specialize in buying,
selling, fixing, growing.

We buy businesses and flip them.

We also partner with business owners
investing our capital resources,

energy, efforts, expertise, and put them
on a build to sell blueprint as well.

So we specialize in really buying,
selling, fixing, and growing.

All right.

I have never heard of anyone
buying a business and flipping it.

So can you let’s start there,
because that’s that’s pretty exciting.


So it’s just like flipping real estate,
but a lot more moving parts.

There are a lot of there are entrepreneurs

out there that are called
turnaround specialists.

That’s what they specialize in doing.

So I’m not the only one,

but there’s lots of turnaround specialists
that look for distressed assets.

They leverage the assets of the company
to purchase a business,

and they fixed the business,
grow the business and sell it for profit.

What is typical turnaround
time for something like that?

It just depends upon
the issues in the business.

Like with real estate.

I would say for me, for me is
typically three, three to five years.

OK, so it’s fairly long term compared

to real estate, which is
the lesson is clear because real estate

doesn’t have employees,
real estate does that in assets

and environmental issues and legal
issues and everything else.

You know, real estate is simple.

Flipping businesses is not simple.


Is there a certain vertical that you guys stay in or
are you all over? No, were agnostic

you know, where we sell businesses.

My sweet spot is selling businesses
for ten million dollar purchase price up.

However, my company does take smaller

businesses, we just closed on a dental
lab from one point two million

last, what was it last month?

And we’ve got they’ve got another
business that they’re closing on.

It’s maybe a half a million.

They got another one they’re working on.

It’s eight hundred thousand
eight hundred thousand.

I got another one I’m working on.
It’s eight million.


Yeah, well, you know, we help
smaller business owners, too.

I mean, our big thing is it’s
not so much about the price tag.

It’s more about helping the owner.

All right.

So the owner essentially hires you to be
a fixer as well as a broker?

Well, it depends on what to hire us for.

You know, a lot of times they start out as

hiring us to sell their business,
but they don’t realize what a mess their

business is actually in
and it is not sellable.

So we work with clients to help

the business, you know, to help them
get their business ready for sell.

We also are starting what we called a road
to sell funnel,

where it’s a step by step,
month by month blueprint to get your

business into, to get your business ready
to exit in the next one to two years.


So let’s go back twenty years when
you first started your business.

What was your first business was this
is or did you learn more lesson now?

And that’s what separates me from other
M&A advisors and brokers as I’m

an entrepreneur from many different
businesses and many different verticals.

I can’t every ask me what
my first business was.

I want to say I like baking cookies
and selling cookies and lemonade.

But I also own, like a magazine business,
a wedding, a wedding magazine business,

an event company.

I’ve owned all kinds of different
businesses in different verticals.

So before I got into selling businesses,

I actually had a franchise sales franchise
consulting franchise development business

where I took equity and franchise
business and put them on the map.

And like I said, DeFrancesco ourselves.

The reason I opened up my firm to begin

with is because so many business owners
were asking me, do you have an existing

business for sale or do you have
an existing business for sale?

Oh, wow.

And I didn’t have an existing
business for sale.

And I’m like, you know,
I need to stop saying now.

I need to say yes.

So that’s what led me just
to set up my M&A firm.

All right,
nice. So how long is this business been

going on? The seller Tucker
business been going?

Well, I mean, I went through a branding

change back in twenty sixteen,
but I’ve been selling businesses.

I’ve had an M&A firm
since 20 cents since 2000.


So it’s been a long time.

A little over 20 years.
All right.

So you survived the whole 2008 thing.

The twenty two.

I was in my it wasn’t
my best year, but I said

if I also survived Hurricane Katrina,

which was five in New Orleans,
where 90 percent of my businesses

literally went underwater,
I survived that, too.

So the majority of the businesses that you

buy and sell are the New Orleans
ish or the beyond?

Well, you see, back then in 2005,
most of my businesses were Louisiana.

Most of them were in New Orleans.

And when Katrina happened, I said, never,
never, never will I do this again.

All right.
I will never have all of my business

in one geographical area,
just like I will be in one industry.

I won’t be in one geographical area.

So we sell businesses all over

the United States plus our own
businesses in other states.

Yeah, because I never want to go through

that again to where I’m almost
completely out of business.


Because all chickens in one basket
and that’s what business owners need to do

then is to put all their
eggs in one basket.

I mean, it’s like the restaurant
industry right now.

I mean,

you know, they’re dying because they have
the restaurant owner has all their eggs.

And that one restaurant basket.

Yeah, they have no other revenue streams.

And they don’t have enough working
capital to weather the storm, right?

We need at least eight years
worth of working capital.

I would say two years
to be on the safe side.

Yeah, that’s a that’s a tough
business when there’s not a pandemic.

So right now, it’s a.

Really, really rough.

So how did you get into the merger
of mergers and acquisitions business?

I just told you I was in the franchise

development franchise,
franchise consulting business.

I kept asking me to buy existing
businesses that have existing businesses

and not only had
all, they had new franchises to sell.

So that’s when I decided to start my M&A

practice so I would have
existing businesses.

So you look to acquire businesses first,

which means that you have to lay out
a lot of capital to get those businesses.

No, I started my business focused
for my M&A firm

and I started getting engagements with
sellers and started selling businesses.

OK, so these were not
businesses that you own.

You were working as a broker.
Got you.

No, no, I didn’t start I didn’t
start buying in partner until later.

OK, later.
How much later?

I don’t know.

I don’t remember time
four or five years later.

Six years later.

Yeah, but I started my M&A firm to sell
businesses and merge businesses together.

Most M&A firms do not buy
businesses and flip them.

And I did not partner
with business owners.

I’m probably the only one that does.
Oh really?

Why is it?

Because they’re not focused on that,
they don’t

a lot of a lot of them and advisers are
brokers and them on the business before.

Oh, that’s very fair.

Extremely fair.

I can tell you that the ones
that I talk to, you

wouldn’t even know where to start.

So they’ve never owned a business before
because I’m on so many different

businesses in different verticals, I have
a lot more vast experience than I do.

Why do you feel that you own so many
businesses and haven’t stuck to one thing?

Because why would I stick to one thing,

I just a lot of people do.

I’m not saying right or wrong.

And I said what industry agnostic I would

never sell just manufacturing or just car
dealerships or just this or just that.

Number one, I get bored easily.

Number two, a lot of buyers don’t
really know what they want.

So are a lot of a lot of buyers are

industry agnostic, a lot of buyers or
even a specific industry agnostic.

So I think I would be limiting myself
if I focus on just one industry.


And I like I like the variety of different
types of industries, you know.

And like I said, there’s five different

types of buyers and most of the buyers
are industry agnostic.

So how do you help a buyer decide what

type of business they’re
going to purchase?

So depends upon the buyer.

There’s five different types of buyers.

90 percent of buyers
are first time buyers.

They need a lot of help because they
have no idea what they want to do.

They don’t know what their
strengths and weaknesses are.

Many of them want to just jump

into the restaurant industry
because they think that’s easy.

And I can I can’t be further
from the truth of owning a restaurant is

extremely hard, probably one of the
hardest industries you can partake of.

So with first time buyers,
I don’t really walk many first time buyers

at all because the businesses
I sell are 10 million and up.

But my team does and we educate them

and we do a skill set analysis to see what
their strengths are, what their weaknesses

are, what their passions are,
what they like to do, you know, and

just do that analysis and see
what’s the best fit for them.

We don’t we don’t stick people in Russia.

You know, a lot of times buyers like we

had the sweet lady we
dealt with years ago.

They called us about a restaurant.

And she had been in banking
industry for 30 years.

And she’s very close to retirement.

But she wanted to buy a business.

And I asked her, why do
you want a restaurant?

Have you been in restaurants?

Do you know how to cook or chef?

Do you have any family members
at a restaurant owners?

And she said, no, it’s just I think it’s
easy and it will always be the man.

I’m like, no.

And I really like if you have
no restaurant experience.


You don’t need to be
in the restaurant industry.

I said, what do you want?

Because I want nine to five.

I said, well, that’s not restaurants.

So she said, I have three hundred three

thousand dollars and fifty
thousand dollars.

I will invest three hundred thousand.

I want to say fifty thousand
for working capital.

I like to find an owner that will do

financing and I like to make
more than I’m making now.

She was making about one hundred twenty
five thousand a year,

so I would tell my clients that their
business kind of fell in that ballpark

range and a lot of them
wanted more money down.

But I found a flooring company

that was making about the cash flows
between three hundred to four hundred

thousand a year
and it included real estate.

And I said, yeah,
we’ll agree to 300, 300000 down.

And so I ended up putting her
into a flooring company, why her?


Because always when it’s the first time
buyer, you always got to figure out,

though, why do they
want to buy a business?

Because so many she has so many people
telling her, what are you crazy?

You’re this close to retirement.

Why would you just not stay
in banking and retire?

So why it’s going to be strong enough.

You know, it’s got to keep you motivated
to keep you in the game

because you’re going to hear all these
naysayers tell you that you’re crazy.

You shouldn’t do that.

So how why was that?

Her husband had contracted Agent Orange

in the military and he had outlived
really all the doctors prognosis.

He shouldn’t be alive.

And she said when he dies,
I lose his benefits.

Plus, I don’t have
anything for my daughter.

I want to pass on my legacy to my child.

So that was Hawaii, which is
a pretty strong ally, right?

It is.

She left her job left
for early retirement,

and it was the best decision she ever made
because she was making about five hundred

thousand a year now,
paying back the debt of the business.

She grew the business.
All right.

But if I were to let her just go

into the restaurant industry, that would
have been financial suicide for her.

Yeah, she’d be living
in a box now, right now.

Other buyers, as first time
buyers turned on specialists.

They know what they want.
They buy distressed assets.

And then there’s private equity
goes private equity groups.

Now they’re going to buy on platformer add

ons and then strategics
and competitors know what they want.

Same thing with serial entrepreneurs.

They’re pretty much industry agnostic.

They just chase cash flow.
Mm hmm.

So the only ones you really have to figure

out what you want are
the first time buyers.

All right.

The other ones are educated
and experienced enough, educated,

experienced enough to kind
of know what they want.

Again, they check us.

So if we got businesses of a million

dollars, but we have lots and lots
and lots of buyers for those businesses

because there are more buyers for good
businesses and are good businesses to buy.


Yeah, because I imagine most people,
when they want to get out of the business

is not because they’re
making money and having fun.


Because they’re not making money
and it’s taking all the time.


So how do you find a business that fits

that that mold that you believe that you
can grow it to the point that’s profitable

and then therefore
salable? How do you find.

Do I find a business?

I don’t find a business.
They find me.

They find you.

So they are find me OK?

Yeah, I know I’m not going to partner
with 20 businesses a year.

I might do one or two dollars a year.

OK, I do one or two deals where I buy

the rest of what we do is selling
and operating in my current businesses.

All right.

Now, Christine, I
know you have a few books out.

I do.

And it looks like clearly Exit Rich
is the one you’re pushing.

So how about you tell us about that one?

So, yeah, I make it very obvious.

Nothing in there.

That’s all.

So I get rich.

I wrote about my very first book.

I’ll give you a little education
on the business landscape.

Oh, my very first book called
Sell Your Business for More.

It’s worth in twenty thirteen

and did the research in 2013
and learned that ninety five percent

of all startups from one to five
years would go out of business.

That’s pretty much common sense.

We all know that.

But then were well extra rich and 19
and 20, 20 was Sharon Lechter.

I do the same research and learn

that the business landscape
has actually flip flopped.

So now only 30 percent of startups are
going out of business, only 30 percent,

however, out of twenty seven
point six million companies.

Those businesses have been
in business ten years or longer.

Seventy percent of those businesses are

going out of business
and these business owners are exiting

poor, not exiting rich,
or selling for pennies on the dollar,

closing their doors or even
worse, filing bankruptcy.

Mm hmm.

And so you hear about the big public

companies all the time,
like Toys R US and business.

Seventy five years goes out of business.

Mm hmm.

Megamix Ward goes out of business.

J.C. Penney is in trouble.

Steinmark goes out of business.

Everyone one goes out of business.

Godiva closes up fifteen
hundred locations.

GNC closes nine hundred locations.

So and the main reason for that is because

business owners stop
doing what I call aim.

I am aim is always innovate and market.
All right.

Always innovate and market.

OK, so.

Exit Rich is all about innovation,

it’s all about marketing,
it’s all about not just selling your

business because your business
is probably not sellable.

So it’s all about planning what I call

your exit model from day one to starting
or buying a business and building

a business that’s sustainable,
scalable, and we are ready to sell.

You have a sellable asset
and then it’s all about building.

It’s all about going through your mind.

Set to let me let me talk about
that before I talk about infrastructure.

It’s all about going through your mindset

and determining what is your sanity,
how much money, because business owners

come to me and say, oh, Michelle,
I want to sell for ten million dollars.

How did you come up with that number?

Because their cash flow is like
one hundred thousand seven

hundred thousand dollars cash flow

and always goes back to that’s
what they need to retire on.

That’s what they need to buy a business
or create their next masterpiece.

So one of the big chapters and exit after
the exit motto is When and why should you?

Your business timing is everything.
Mm hmm.

So we take our clients through what we

call a solid sanity check
to determine what they really need.

And one.
Mm hmm.

And then number two,
what are they going to do next?

They’re beginning and strategy because
they will never follow through on an exit

strategy until they actually
have a beginning strategy.

And then we and then we prioritize,
we prioritize what’s the most important

thing to them, is it the purchase price
is taking care of their employees?

Is it taking care of their clients?

Is a growing our legacy.

A lot of times it’s not
even a dollar amount.

That’s the most important thing to them,
are taking care of their employees,

maybe taking care of their employees,
growing their legacy.

This is their baby.

They want to see their big
name still shining in lights.

They want to see a legacy to continue on.

And then we take them through how to build

the infrastructure on what we call the six
PS because of a business is operating

on all six cylinders,
all six PS that will be able to maximize

value and we’ll have lots
of buyers to create a bidding war.

All right.
If it’s not, then we won’t.

So we work with our clients
to tune up those six fees.

OK, will you share with us the 60s? Sure.

I’ll share with you whatever
you want or my trade secrets.

I don’t care.
So this is number one is people.

One of the biggest mistakes that business
owners make is they have created a job

that they go to work at every day rather
than a business actually works for them.

Yes, definitely no.

Business owners have to focus on their
strengths and hire their weaknesses.

You need to”” learn to delegate
and put the right people and resources

to NASA who question who opens the door,
who does what customers,

who does illegal accounting, marketing,
manufacturing, logistics, environmental.

The clue, James, is used
to never be next to the WHO.

Mm hmm.

So all of your listeners should
stop what they’re doing.

Possessed by Dan Rather,
who’s and then the names next to each.

And again, you don’t want to put your name

next to any of them because you need
the business to run without you.

You also want to make sure you have

a management team in place
and then the next P is product.

This is your product or service industry.

You have to ask yourself, is your
product or industry on the way up?

On the way out.

Is a thriving or is it dying to have

an Amazon here in your prime, or do you
have a blockbuster about to go bust?

And, you know, during this pandemic,

unfortunately, there’s a lot
of industries about to go bust.

But I always tell my clients that’s
very transformational questions.

Amazon did this back in the 90s.

They ask themselves,
what business are we in?

An your listenership pause again

and ask ourselves,
what business are we at?

And Amazon, we’re the a
bookselling business.

We sell books.
Then Amazon asked, what do we do really?

Well, better than everybody else.

What is our core competency?

What is our USP or unique
selling proposition?

And Amazon said.

We do much better than anybody else,

so this is what is really going
to identify what makes him unique.

And then the third question,

the most obvious question
is what business should we be in, huh?

All right.
Should Amazon said we should be

in the fulfillment business,
we should be fulfilling more than just

books, we should be fulfilling
everybody’s products.

Those three questions is what transformed
Amazon from a small bookseller

to a multibillion dollar worldwide
conglomerate that they are today?

Mm hmm.

So ask yourself those
transformational questions.

Business owners have to get
out of the tactical.

The transactional and become

Mm hmm.
I like that.

And then the next piece is processes.

Processes are kind of like exit strategy.

You never think of them
until something bad happens.

And you’re like, oh,

we need a process for that process as
most business owners get this wrong.

Processes need to be designed
with the customer experience in mind.

Mm hmm.

Did you ever watch the movie The Founder,
based upon the McDonald brothers?

Few times.


OK, so you remember back in the fifties,
the McDonald brothers said we want

to create a restaurant around
this customer’s experience.

We want to create the processes.

That fast food system, I think is
what they called it back then.

We wanted to create the processes
around the customer experience.

We want the customers to experience

great tasting food that’s hot
served, 30 seconds or less.

You remember when the McDonald brothers
went out to the empty tennis court?


Took chalk on the tennis courts,
all the processes.

Systematize it.

And they were bouncing
around battling each other.


And then you had, I think,
one of the McDonald’s brothers.

I think it was Dick or Mac.
I don’t know.

I mean, Dick was up on a ladder and he was
orchestrating where they all need to go.

And it was just as healthy as a simply
systemize systemizing, right?

Mm hmm.

And but those processes that were
developed way back then is why you can eat

at a McDonald’s, any one around
and get the same experience.

That’s why they can replace somebody

within 30 minutes and have
them at the front,

you know, and they designed it

with the customer experience of mine.
Have you ever dealt with a company where

you’re like, oh, my God,
this is the worst experience of my life?

Just about every new client
that we take on Calls On Call?

Well, those are your clients.

But what about a company?

A bank, a social media company, a vendor?

And you have to go through it.

Like, I’m not going to say
who the social media company.

Oh, my gosh.

It took me six months
to get my problem solved.


And I couldn’t call anybody and I kept
emailing and we kept doing all the stuff.

Their processes are designed

with the owner’s agenda in mind, not
with the customer’s experience and mine.

So bottom line is,
owners need to start getting this right,

create happy clients and you
will be in business, right?

If you don’t, your competitors
will take them over for you.

So your your processes should always be

designed with the customer
experience in mind.

It should be productive and efficient.

If your processes are not productive

and efficient, you’re going
to lose money totally.

And then you need to have them documented.

You need to have the systemized approach

like a McDonald’s or Burger King or want
a burger where you have your S.O.P

checklist, you have your manuals,
you have your employee checklist

and handbooks and non competes
and contracts right there.

No answers where it’s all up here right
now because that’s the problem.

Like I had a sweet little lady call me

the other day and she wanted her husband
dropped dead from a heart attack.


Left him with a mountain of debt,
left her with a mountain of debt.

She knows nothing about
finances or the business.

She said, can you please sell this
for me so I could pay off the debt?

That’s start asking questions.
He no employees.

We had no people.

Then he had no processes,

everything was in his head when
he died, the business died.

You got to get stuff out
of your head onto paper.

Mm hmm.

OK, the next P is
the highest value driver.

So business says I have a million dollars

in EBITA even as earnings before interest,
taxes, depreciation and amortization,

they typically
will trade with anywhere from one

to three, maybe four if
they got some synergies.

Let’s just say one of the four businesses

over a million dollars in April will
typically go for four or five and up.

But this is for fire, Terry.

So proprietory assets
will get you a much higher multiples.

Pay attention to this P if you don’t
pay attention to anything else.

And there are six pillars to this,

so no one is branding them all while
branded you are the more I can sell your

company for as long as your company
brand is relevant in the mind

of the consumers. Meaning is anybody
paying any money for Blockbuster?

Now, what’s the most valuable brand
in the world? Do you know Coca-Cola?

Now everybody says Coca-Cola.

They’re the top 10,
but they’re not the most valuable.

All right, then I have
to admit ignorance here.

Apple, Android,

no rival to top that Apple, no more than
three hundred and fifty nine billion

dollars just for the just for the brand,
just for the last,

not including cash for real estate,
inventory, assets, accounts receivables,

just the brand is over
350 billion dollars.

How do they come up with a number like

that? Because there’s a lot
of different metrics.

There’s a lot of different matrix
of formulas and things like that.

And plus how the company
I mean, the public.

So they’ve got Matrix as well.

It’s easier to come up with a brand
when you have a public traded company.

And then so trademarks are very valuable.

Company trademark your podcast,

trademark your company name, trademark,
except Rich the six as a sex symbol.

Here’s the mistake the business owners

make, James as they go open up interstate
sediq open up in California.

They get a trademark for the state

of California, but they never
check the federal database.

They go to GoDaddy first to make sure

the domain is available and never
check the federal database.

So I’ve had clients in business for five,

10, 15 years all of a sudden receive a
cease and desist letter.

Oh, so they’re hiring attorneys spent a
lot of money, but they’re going to lose.

And then you got to start all over
again and build that brand back up.

So make sure that you get
a trademark attorney.

It’s not that expensive, like fifteen
fifteen hundred two thousand.

And protect your assets, right.

We have a we have a business
that we’re selling products to.

So if you have any exclusive name
products, it could be restaurant,

it could be producing, you know,
all kinds of different things.

We got a company we’re selling that has

exclusive product for each one
of the grocery store chains,

and each name has a federal trademark
that’s worth a lot of money.

Mm hmm.

Patents are valuable, too,
if you have a large shark tank was

the same question all investors
ask all the inventors.

They’re asking for. They want to know what
their secret sauce is, proprietary is,

what do they own that special
to them right now?

Do you have a patent on that?

You have a patent pending
to have utility patent.

In fact, that offers always
contingent upon the patent.

Oh, we want to start a business, right?

Ten million dollars that wasn’t making
any money, but they had 18 patents.

Wow, contracts.

Also, big manufacturing contracts,
vidro contracts, distribution contracts,

any type of exclusive contracts,
franchise or contracts that has lots

of franchises and then client contracts
that are most valuable

because business buyers want to buy
a business that has revenue coming in.


Especially those contracts have
subscription models reoccurring.

Rather, they are the most
valuable to strategics.

Here is the caveat to contracts.

I’ve been in this industry for 20 years.

I have never met one business owner
that has a transferability clause in our

contract that says this contract is
transferable to the new entity,

ninety nine point nine percent
of all sales or stock sales.

And that’s a big loss to do an asset sale
or the clients agree to accept to transfer

and stop dead in its tracks.

So that’s a huge one.

That’s huge.

Get the transferability clause.

Be proactive.

Yeah, there wasn’t there was a M&A firm
that sold it was a business brokerage

that sort of private equity group

and a private equity group to diligence
team didn’t do their homework.

They never looked at the contracts.

None of the contracts were transferable.

They spent millions on this business,

did a big hoopla, congratulatory
party for the franchisees.

Franchisees didn’t like the private equity

group like they know
nothing about our industry.

So none of them transferred over only one
out of like fifteen hundred franchises.

Oh, it’s not me.

Ended up going bankrupt.

And then as soon I entirely legal and due
diligence team and obviously one.

But you have to have your
contracts transferable.


Database’s is another
proprietary Facebook page.

Nineteen billion dollars for WhatsApp

and WhatsApp was hemorrhaging
money hemorrhaging.

But they had a synergy.

They had a billion users
and Facebook knew they can monetize.

And I could all I they could get
a return on their investment.

They paid nineteen billion
for a billion users.

Celebrity endorsements are big.

Know we have a client that’s got Oprah
that is endorsing their products.

A strategic competitor will pay a lot

of money for that because everybody
wants their products in front of Oprah.

She’s the queen Restaino saying they love

radio personalities like Glenn Beck
or Kate Codecs or any of these.

I used to say Rush Limbaugh, but
unfortunately, he’s on there right now.

So good.

Now, these celebrities and radio
personalities can only endorse

one skincare at a time, one diet company
at a time because they lose credibility.

So this is what we call
prime digital real estate.

And then for e-commerce businesses,

if you got any of these top positions
on Etsy, Wayfair, modern Amazon, eBay,

that is a lot of money strategics will pay
for that digital real estate placement.

So that’s proprietary.

Build your proprietary assets.

These are synergies.

Nice, and then the next
year was a lot right there.

I did the next year,

Patrias and I could go on and on and on
and little proprietary, you know,

let’s say you’re an engineer or architect
and you have all these blueprints.

That’s proprietary.

Let’s say that you’re an online educator
and you have all these curriculums

that’s proprietary,
you know, there’s so many different

examples of proprietary that’s
extremely valuable to Meyer’s

patrons as a whip.

This is your customer base.

You want customer concentrate?

I’m sorry, one customer diversification,
not customer concentration.

And typically the business rule,
the businesses follow the 80 20 rule where

80 percent of the revenue comes
from 20 percent of clients.

I’ll give you a quick case study.

So we’re selling all manufacturing

business and have sixty five percent
of the revenue tied up in BP.

All right, 65.

That’s a law that is a lot we have as

a company in the nine point
eight nine dollars range.

We have 550 buyers for this one company.

We narrowed it down to 12 letter

of intent, but every letter of intent had
a caveat to the contract, to their alaoui,

the stated that
what the payout was going to be

tied to the BP contract.

So if they lost BP, then the seller will
lose a percentage of that purchase price.

I can earn out self-financing, etc.

But then we found one buyer that has some

more products and services and this buyer
had been trying to get in BP for decades.

I could never get in.

So he was willing to take the risk because
he’s like, if I if I met with this

company, I can get my other
products and services in there.

So he ended up offering 15 million.

He paid 50 million for 70
percent of the company.

Which is one hundred twenty six
percent more than the asking price.

Wow, prizefights just to get in the VP.

That’s how we create that’s how we
identify those synergies and identify

those buyers that are willing to pay
top dollar, willing to pay more.

And I bet everybody else.

So on something like that,

how do you find a buyer like that that’s
looking for BP or access to BP,

but they may not necessarily
looking for a business?


Or were they not get it done?

I they have to buy the business.

But how do they find you or you find them?

Well, I mean, we don’t advertise.

Sixty five percent of revenues would be

big because then we probably
would never get them free.

But we found we found buyers

and the manufacturer oil manufacturing
space that were growing through

acquisition and wanted
to buy more businesses.

All right.
And we were fortunate to find one that had

very similar products and services
they’ve been trying to get in BP.


A lot of times a lot of time
to answer that question.

We are because we’ve been
in business for 20 years.

We already know
what what private equity groups want,

what they’re looking for,
what synergies are looking for.

Same thing with strategics
and competitors.

We already know it’s it’s in our CRM.

So I imagine much like real estate,
a lot of the stuff that a lot

of transactions that happen
don’t ever get listed.

Very true connections that people make.

A lot of our stuff never
goes on the open market.

As Carax We’re seeing a lot of times what

you saw in auctions, like, well,
we’ll go sort out who the buyers are

that we think are best and we’ll do
a structured auction on those

on that business, really
at that price point as well.


And then so the last piece,
the most important B is profits.

Everybody wants to make money.

And the reason I come off as last is

because lack of profits
is never the problem.

Clients come to me all the time.

So much of a profit bubble like now you

have a problem in the process of a lag if
you’re not making money in your company.

Mm hmm.

Go and look at the people
in your organization.

Look at your product.
You have convert revenue streams,

get your processes are designed
to have happy clients.

They gave you referrals or they designed
to alienate customers and they go

somewhere else and you’re losing
market share and they look at your IP.

Are you spending more money to protect

your intellectual property because
you didn’t do it from the beginning?

Lack of profits is never,
ever the problem.

It’s the symptom.

If you’re running all five cylinders,
I guarantee you’re going to be making

money profits automatic
at that point, correct?

That’s fair.
Totally fair, right?

Yeah, that’s a symptom.

Not the that’s the symptom.
Not the problem.

Yeah, I get it.

So that’s the sixth phase.
That’s pretty cool.

And that that all wrapped up is
in your exit rich book is that right.

It is.

So the first half of exit rich as as
a model, how you should plan your exit

from day one, you and me running
through that real quick.

OK, so day one,

you need to plan your exit.

You need to start with the end in mind

that Stephen Covey principles
start with the end in mind.

And when you want to drive some more,
James, what do you do?

You pull out your phone, you go to Google
Maps and you plug in your destination.

Destination business owners
have to have a destination.

Business owners have no destination.

Business owners don’t plan
to tell their fellow plan.

Right side of the plans,

driving around in circles, driving up
and down the financial hills and nowhere.


So you need a destination,
need an end game.

You need a desired sales price.

Pick a number.

I tell all my clients pick a number like,
oh, no, no, no, no.

Just pick a frickin number.

If you want to sell for twenty million
dollars, wait, there’s a number for you.

Twenty million dollars.

Then what is it you want or need to know.

You needs to know where
you’re starting from.

What is your current location,
what is your evaluation.

Most business owners never,
ever get a business valuation.

You know, it’s financial suicide.

We go to the doctor once a year to get

a physical checkup to make sure all our
hearts are taken and we’re still kicking.

We drive a car, the mechanic,

to get an annual tune up,
but we never get an annual evaluation

checkup on our business,
our most prized valuable asset

or events to increase valuation
and reverse it, decrease valuation.

So you need a valuation
checkup every year.

So you need to know where
you’re starting from.

So let’s say you want to sample twenty

million and you’re currently
worth five million.

Next thing you need to know is what?

How do we get their time frame,
time frame, OK, time?

Yeah, huge.

Let’s say you want to do it in 15 years on
a cell for twenty nine to five million.

I want to sell in 15 years.

Next thing you need to know is who’s my
buyer’s going to be not buyer but buyers.

Clients come to me all the time and shout

out I got the buyer just represent me
with this one buyer and I’m like

OK let you do yourself a disservice
because I can promise you

that that buyer is probably not going
to buy your business,

are going to find something that they
don’t like and not going to belong.

You need to have backup buyers.

And I want to tell you about
your eggs in one basket.

Plus, how can you maximize value?

How can you get a higher sales
price if you have no competition?

Introduce competition last.

You’re so out of five types of buyers.

If you’re trying to sell a 20 million

dollar company, you’re not going
to be talking to first time buyers.

You’re not going to be talking
to turnaround specialist.

So you were talking to private equity,
good strategic competitors and or

sophisticated entrepreneurs
to chase cash flow.

Then you need to reverse
engineer the numbers.

It’s OK to sell my company
at twenty million.

What is the top line revenue need to be?

Was the gross profit margin,

most importantly, was the Ebola
virus before interest, taxes,

depreciation and amortization have
to be for sale for 20 million dollars?

You need a company is doing about four

million, four or four
and a half million in Ebola.

All right.

So it also depends on the industry,

depends upon the industry,
but that’s that’s a good rule of thumb.

You three, I would say between three
and a half to five, OK, and EBITA.

And then you need to know what synergies

are these buyers willing
to pay top dollar for?

And that’s what brings you back
to the 60s, putting those infrastructures,

putting out those proprietary
assets as proprietary synergies.

All right.
And then the last thing in the

exit model is my why
why do I want to sell to my mind?

If it was easy to do,
everybody would be doing it right.

So you have to have a powerful ally strong

enough to keep you in the game,
to keep you motivated and keep you

weathering all the financial
storms that will occur.

So do you ever take somebody through

a practice like this and then they realize
they’re making bank,

they’re happy with the business now
that you finally helped them,

so then they changed their mind and like,
I don’t want to sell right now.

Everything’s cool.


And a lot of times your first
offer is your best offer.

And I’ve also seen business owners walk

away from a really good offer and then
lose everything shortly after that.

Oh really?

Oh, I timed your first offers,
your best offer and.

Yeah, because I get greedy and I’m like,
oh I don’t, I get greedy.

And here’s the bottom line.

A business has life cycles
just like a human does today.

And what goes up must come down.

Nothing stays good forever.

And businesses go from the incubator
stage when they’re born.

Only 90 percent of ideas like how
the incubator babies go to an incubator

in a bar high and then they
go from incubator to infant.

What is an infant business need? Twenty

four hour supervision, a lot of money,
a lot of help.

And then it goes to toddler a lot
as a toddler. Do you have kids?

You have toddlers or one
not a toddler anymore.

Thank goodness.

We remember to travel to Syria for
those holidays.

You know, they’re starting to walk.

They’re starting to make a lot of they’re
starting to destroy everything.

But I still need a lot of supervision,
a lot of money.

And then I get them.

Teenagers and teenagers are rebellious
and think they know it all and they need

more supervision and money,
a lot of money.

And and then you go from young

teenagers to young adults and they’re
starting to figure it out.

They don’t need as much micromanagement.

They don’t need as much money.

They’re starting to figure out.

And then you go to a doll,
a doll is in your prime.

OK, so let me give you an example.

Toys R US was in their
adult phase in twenty.

Honestly, it was twenty,
fifteen, twenty, sixteen.

All right.

They were worth eleven
point five billion dollars.

And adult phase adult is when
you should sell your business.

Yeah, because,
you know, it’s going to stay an adult

for so long and at some
point it’s going to go down.

Mm hmm.
So they should have sold then.

So they went from adult eleven point
five billion to the very next year.

Jane’s filing bankruptcy.

Was it really it was the very next year

you got from adult to senior citizen,
all right.

They filed bankruptcy.

Then you got from senior citizen to death.

Two years after they were in our dollface,
they closed up all their locations, yeah,

online and then they went from death to
rebirth and it opened up four locations.

And I tried to innovate.

They did a much smaller boutique model,
but did it innovate enough?

And so they’re back out of business again.
All right.

I knew they fired back up, but I did
not know that they close up shop again.

Yeah, did.

Isn’t that perfect example of
the business cycle?

Life cycle?

Now, going on that example,

if they would have sold in twenty fifteen
for eleven and a half billion dollars,

whatever, do you think that they would
have they would still be alive now.

It depends upon into the buyer
is it depends on who the CEO is.

It depends on the visionary.

I mean the problem is had you know,

I don’t know who was at the top,
but the person at the top, like vision.

Lacked innovation, just.


So that’s hard to answer
because I don’t know.

All right.
All right.

It’s like Apple.
Apple was almost dead

until Steve Jobs came back.

And then Steve Jobs came back and said,
do ask the same questions.

What business are we in?

You really, really well.

A business should we be in?

That’s when I said we need to be

in the iPhone business, the iPad business,
the iPod, this and that.

And they need to be
in the connection business.

It’s just like the founder
of the movie The Real Estate.

I’m sorry.

Just like the story in the movie
The Founder,

when Ray Kroc was at the bank trying to
borrow money because he loves his house.


And he had a bunch of franchises, but his
percentage was so close relative, so low

that he wasn’t making any
money, was losing money.

And then a gentleman followed him outside

of the bank and asked him,
what business are you at?


Because I’m a businessman,
a hamburger business.

He goes, no, you need to be
in the real estate business.

You going to be buying up the land?

Put it up the buildings leasing
to the franchisee after noncompliant

with the contract to buy another
franchisee another, and they pay you rent.

Mm hmm.

And that leverage right there asking those
two questions is what gave Ray Corp

the leverage to be able to take
McDonald’s away from McDonald brothers?

Yeah, that’s why they’re one

of the largest real estate
holding companies in the world.

Mm hmm.
Well, back to the questions.

If your business is not doing well,
go back to question.

What business are you in? What do you do
really well? What should you be it? Right.

That’s awesome.

Yeah, that’s such a good movie.

I love it because the whole systematizing

thing, a rule with my business
is a systematize everything.

I’m working with some authors and some
publishers and they’re just like,

I can’t systematize is
like you can systematize.

Just unties almost everything.

And the problem with the McDonald brothers
is that systematizing processing.

But they want good visionary’s.

They they they you know,

every time I came up with an idea,
they said, no, no, no, no, no.

Really good visionaries.

There’s not one restaurant.

No interest,

no interest in growth beyond the place
that they had because they won’t really

look at not every
entrepreneur is a visionary.

Steve Jobs was one of the best
visionaries of all time.

Mm hmm.
You know, Ray Kroc was a great visionary.

Mm hmm.
Not all entrepreneurs are visionaries.

No, very true.

And McDonald’s wasn’t really a great

visionary, the brothers right now,
because I wanted to control everything.

You cannot grow without
letting go control.

Oh, I love that.

It’s perfect right there.

I going to hang that up back here.

You cannot grow without letting go

the control and they won’t
let go of the control.

And that’s why he did the real estate

holding company was able
to take everything over.


I remember the scene in the bathroom when

the one of the brothers I don’t
know which one was upset.

It was a little like a dick,
I think was a big one.

Dick is a little one.
All right.

And Ray said, who’s the one with the
million dollar check in your pocket?

What’s that?

When the brother was kind of upset at Ray
essentially stealing the company.

Yes, he owned the company Realtor.

He said it was the one
with the million dollar check now.

And I never did get paid the royalties.

We knew they weren’t going to right now.

So it wasn’t that Ray Kroc wasn’t the most

ethical guy,
but he certainly was a visionary.

And, you know, without Ray Kroc,
there’d be no McDonald’s today.


Good or bad orgood or bad.

So it’s certainly a great example.

Tell me about your business as far as

employees and stuff like that and how
you’re working and growing your business.

Well, I have a lot of different

businesses, hovercrafts, gone,
medical companies, medical companies.

Oh, I have lots of different businesses.

I don’t just have one business.

I don’t put all my eggs in one basket.

And I am a firm we have
a team of analysts,

we have marketing, we have brokers,
we have transaction facilitators.

OK, and are these employees are they
they’re both like a combination

of employees and employees to ninety
nine thousand combination of interns.


And how you must have managers below
you that help you manage all that.


Because that’s that you
have to follow my own rule.

All right.
I go of the control the girl.

Is that bit hard?

I don’t think it’s so much
hard to let go of the control.

It’s the hardest thing for any business
owner is to find the right people,

to put it in the right spot.
Oh, my gosh.

Yes, that’s the hardest thousand
times over a thousand times over.

Because you think you have the right
person, then you realize, oh, my gosh,

I don’t like waking up one day
and got married the wrong person.

A couple of people have done that.

New Jersey and over 20 something years.

I’m good.

Thank you.

So where do you see your businesses going
in the next let’s call it five years.

So my, you know,
my graphics company,

we have that on the built to sell
model within three to five years.

Same thing with my medical company.

Most of my companies are always
on a bill to sell three to five years.

The only one that I don’t really have

an actual time for is my life
farm because I love what I do.

All right.

Get all my other businesses
on a business plan.

Very cool.

So that said, in three to five years as

you sell these, will you be looking
into acquiring other ones as well?

I’m looking at acquiring
a franchise company right now.


It’s got so many franchises.

What we think we can blow them up.
All right.


So we’re looking at that and
looking at other businesses.

Very cool. Do you for stuff like that,

do you have investors that you
bring on for other businesses?

I if I bring on a partner,
I invest my money and if I bring

on a partner, I expect them to make
an investment to get you OK.

And last and last are trading services
for equity, should I say it’s a marketing

company and the business needs marketing
and we might bring on a marketing firm

and give them a percentage
of the company, give them equity.

All right.

And terms for service
in exchange for service.

All right.
I know we don’t have a ton of time here.

So besides Exit Rich,
what other books do you have?

Can you remind us? I have Sell Your
Business For More Than What It Is Worth, Exit Rich.

I did write a chapter in a book called
Think and Grow Rich. I of a book that’s already

written but not out yet about growing
your wealth through acquisitions.

that’s coming down the pipeline that is so

Exit Rich is the one
we’re focused on right now.


Exit Rich it’s going to launch in June 22nd

but you don’t
have to wait till June.

Your listeners can go to Exit Rich book club.
I’m sorry.

exitrichbook.com for twenty four

dollars and seventy nine cents
which is less than Amazon.

They can buy the book.

We will email them to digital
download immediately.

So they don’t have to wait.
All right.

Once we email them the digital download we

will shipped our hardcover
to their doorstep to

anybody who lives in the United States for no

additional shipping cost when
the book launches in June.

Plus, we give them a lifetime membership into

the Exit Rich book club includes video

content and me doing deep dives in these
different techniques and strategies

that I’ve been working with over the last
twenty years in the trenches,

plus documents. Documents to operate your
business, documents to sell your business.

Example: plause and procedure manuals,
employee handbooks,

non-competes, org charts,
sample LOI’s, letterman tents,

purchase agreements, diligence
checklist, and closing docs.

They’re there for your review
and your immediate download.

You can use the templates.

If you went your attorney to try

to recreate all of this, it will cost
you over thirty thousand dollars.

Yeah, attorneys are not.

And so you’re getting this for twenty four
dollars and seventy nine cents, right?


We’re giving you a 30 day free membership
into club CEOs, which is a entrepreneurial

mastermind that I started to ask those
transformational questions and help

business owners pivot
so we can build that sustainable,

scalable and an already scalable
business so that you can get rich.

I didn’t want to say Steve Forbes
has endorsed the rich.

Kevin Harrington has written to forward
his original Shark Tank lectures.

My coauthor who wrote with Shepard
out with Robert Kiyosaki.


She’s a New York Times best selling
author, five year, five times now.

And she’s a CPA,

a financial literacy expert and advisor
to many different presidents.

She writes and mentors
after every chapter.

Plus, we’ve been endorsed by Les Brown,

Jack Canfell and Chicken Soup
for the Soul.

Mark Victor Hansen and Tracy Tompkins.

Yeah, yeah, yes.
That’s cool.

That’s very cool.

I’m talking to some authors in a few
months here in Canada,

and it’s interesting to see what you got
going on with the book,

like, oh, you got you’re doing
all right with this skincare.

I love it. Well,
it’s a great title, right?

Yeah, it’s definitely a great title for it
now because, I mean, this is actually more

so for twenty four dollars
and seventy nine cents.

You get all of that and a bag of chips is
less expensive than going to McDonald’s.

And they have

all they have to do is
actually implement it.

And actually do they got to implement it.

We had a gentleman who sent us

a testimonial letter that read the PDF
version and he said, oh my gosh.

He said, why have you bet in 20 years?

You said, my marketing and media business.

He says, I haven’t I didn’t
do any of this stuff.

I had my accident on
my infrastructure in the 60s.

And he said now he’s doing everything step
by step by step, and he wants us to

work with him because we have a mentor
program that we’re that we have.

It’s called Road Road to Sell.

and so anyway, he says he’s been making

some huge changes and his company has seen
a huge profit from just implementing these

little tweaks that we
talked about the next reg.

That’s going to be a good feeling.

Yeah, of course.

Testimonials like that.

I love hearing from clients
or from students.

All that jazz.

Like, hey, I did this thing that you said

that I thought, you’re
crazy for telling me.


you know, all of this sounds so common
sense, but common sense is not so common.

Not at all.

Anyone that’s ever tried to hire someone
knows that, oh, my God, hiring is

that’s that’s the biggest
challenge in every business.

And I always say, you know, if you can’t
change or people change your people.


Oh, I love that.

We can’t throw that one back there.

And you have to be honest.

You have to have an assistant.
That’s another thing I always say.

If you don’t have an assistant,
you are the assistant.


That is something that’s interesting

that goes hand in hand with the
letting go of control thing.

Yeah, because that’s one of those things
that I’m graduating to that I know

it’s tough, but you talked me
into taking the step there.

SoI love it.

I love it.
Well, cool.

Michelle, thank you so much
for being on the show.

Can you remind us again where people
can find you. So exitrichbook.com.

Go get the book, twenty four dollars and

seventy nine cents for all the goodies
and all the golden nuggets.

They can also go to SeilerTucker.com,
which is my main website.

Spelt S-E-I-L-E-R, seilertucker.com.

They can also text Michelle to 8885265750

and when they text me, my websites pop up,
all my social media pops up,

they follow me on social media
and connect with me on LinkedIn.


That is the first time
anyone’s ever offered that.

Oh really? That is cool.
I’m innovative.


I love it.
I love it.

That’s super cool.

Michelle, thank you so much
for being on the show.

Thanks, James.
Thanks for having me on.

It was a pleasure to be with you.

This has been

Authentic Business Adventures the business
program that brings you the struggles

stories and triumphant successes
of business owners across the land.

We are underwritten locally
by the Bank of Sun Prairie.

If you’re listening to this on the Web,
please give a thumbs up,

subscribe, comment, and of course, share
with all your entrepreneurial friends.

My name is James Kademan
and Authentic Business Adventures is

brought to you
by Calls On Call, offering call answering

services for service businesses looking
for growth. On the web at CallsOnCall.com

As well as
Draw In Customers Business Coaching

offering business coaching services
for entrepreneurs all over the country

on the Web at DrawInCustomers.com.
And of course, The BOLD Business Book, a book

for the entrepreneur in all of us
available wherever fine books are sold.

We’d like to thank you are wonderful listeners as

well as our guest, Michelle Seiler Tucker,
CEO and founder of Seiler Tucker Inc.

Michelle, thank you
so much for being on the show.

This is so much fun.
Thank you, James.

I had a blast with you.
Thank you.

Good to see you.
I’ve interviewed a lot of people.

I always take away at least
one or two nuggets.

I think you gave us about
fifty seven of them.

So thank you so much for that.

That’s a good number.
So that’s, we made some progress here.

So that’s cool.

Past episodes can be found

morning, noon, and night at the podcast link found
at DrawInCustomers.com.

Thank you so much for listening.
We’ll see you next week.

I want you to stay awesome.

And if you do nothing else.

Enjoy your business.



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