How To Build Your Construction Business – Ep173

Visit Adam at: https://www.afconstructionllc.com/

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You have found authentic

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Business Adventures business program
that brings you the struggle stories

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and triumphs and successes of business owners

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across the land.
My name is James Kademan, entrepreneur,

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author, speaker and helpful coach to small
business owners across the country.

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We are underwritten locally
by the Bank of Sun Prairie.

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And today I’m excited because we have Adam

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from AF Construction,
and Adam is going to tell us about all

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the fun that happens when you start
build and grow a construction company.

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Adam, how are you doing today?
I’m good.

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Thanks.
So let’s start out with the beginning.

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Here.

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How long has AF construction been
around? Since 2005. 2005?

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Okay.
So you’ve seen some stuff.

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All right.

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That means 2008, that whole crash where
a lot of companies didn’t make it.

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I guess as far as that goes.

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Yeah, I was pretty small at that point,

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so it was a little bit easier
to navigate through that mess.

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All right.

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Being in Madison area, it kind of
protected in like a bubble.

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It didn’t really impact
right away of that debacle.

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It didn’t really put too
much pressure on us.

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But we noticed if you were specific

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in what trade you were in,
you would be more affected.

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So that allowed me to just become
a little bit more versatile.

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Okay.
And do more things.

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And if I didn’t know it,
I was willing to learn how to do it.

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Fair.
Totally fair.

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So prior to you starting your business,
what were you doing before?

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So I grew up in the trades with
my dad, and we did flooring.

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So I grew up doing flooring
with him for many years.

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Okay.
Carpet, wood, tile?

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Everything.

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So we would go in and do that.

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And then after high school,

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I started getting a little bit more
anxious and wanting to learn more.

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So I kind of
switched from working with my dad and went

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to work for a remodeling
company for about five years.

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And that’s where I learned the bulk
of my remodeling skills. Gotcha

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okay.
And at what point did you decide –

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hey, I’m going to go off on my own
versus continuing to be an employee.

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Well, being that I was self employed
for flooring, it was a lot easier for me

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to make an income,
whereas when I went to work for somebody

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else, I was kind of at their
price line, price point.

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I knew where I was,
and I actually came down a little bit

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in wages and then just tried
to make it work, and it gets tough.

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So I had to make a change.

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I wanted to go back to school.
Okay.

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For construction? For real estate.
Okay.

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So I went back to school for real estate,
and I tried to go full time.

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But when you’re full time,
you can’t really pay bills.

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No, not unless you sell something.

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So then it kind of put the College back
on the back burner for a little bit.

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And then

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I just decided to go off on my own.

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I knew enough and started with one client.
All right.

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So when you started AF construction,

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were you married at the time?
No.

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Okay. So were you dating your wife now?
No.

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Okay.

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Well, that makes it easy, so you
didn’t say, “hey, funny story.

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I quit my job,” or anything.
You just did it.

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I was able to just do it.

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Okay. Was there any fear or challenge or
unknowns that you were concerned with?

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There’s always fear at that point,
I was still pretty young, so

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if I needed to, I could go back
to my parents’ house and stay with them.

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Oh, there you go.

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But I always wanted to live on my own.

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It’s like freedom.

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Hey, I don’t live with my parents anymore.
Nice.

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So, you start your business.

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And at what point did you start marketing

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and how did you do it when
you first started in 2005?

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I never really marketed myself
at the beginning stages of my company.

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A lot of it,

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well, almost 100% of it was referral base.
Okay.

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So friends and family, stuff like that.

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It started off with friends and family.

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And then from there,
it just kind of slowly went on.

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But I also had a big circle of people

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that I knew from my previous
business, where I worked.

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And it was a big enough circle that I
could jump in with some of those guys

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because some of those guys did branch
off and go back to work for themselves.

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Okay.
So I could go to work for them as well.

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Gotcha.

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And once I got a little bit more
confident, I started reaching out to other

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builders and kind of got into the
framing trade for a little bit.

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All right.
So just offering to do the framing

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for them so they could – Framing
and whatever I could get my hands on.

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Okay.
So they could sub out to you.

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You’d have work, and it’s all good.
Cool.

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So when you first started your business,
you’re building it like that.

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Was it tougher doing work for friends
and family or other coworkers and stuff

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like that because you had
a relationship with them already.

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So if there was a challenge in the job,

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there may be a challenge in the friendship

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or the relationship or
something like that earlier on.

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I never really had that problem because

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I was pretty easy going,
just wanted to get it done.

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So I probably kept a lot
of things to myself.

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All right.

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This job is going terrible, but
fair now, construction.

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From what I understand initially, like,
you can be a guy with a van or whatever.

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You got a hammer and some tools.
Not a big deal.

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But eventually you have to grow
to the point where you got trailer,

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you have employees, and there’s
capital that you have to spend.

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Yes.
So what point did you start growing where

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you really started sticking
money in the business?

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Well, in business.

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You always want to chase the money.

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And if you want more money,
you have to have other people help you.

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So I would say

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it’s kind of doing that before 2005.

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But when I went to 2005,

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I had friends that were my age
that were in the trades as well.

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So I was able to bring them in,
and that kind of helped push us into a new

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category so that we could get bigger jobs,
such as building complete houses.

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Oh, nice.
Okay.

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Do you remember the first house you built?
Yes.

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All right.
Was it in?

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I don’t know, somewhere around here?
Yeah.

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In the Madison area.

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All right. And was it one that you built
for you or one that you built for someone?

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I built it for another builder.

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Got you framed it.

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That one we didn’t sign.
We just framed it.

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Okay.
All right.

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I imagine that had to be a huge learning

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experience, starting
from scratch like that.

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It was a little nerve wracking,
but with a couple of other friends

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that have been in the trades, too,
working for other companies,

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we’re all able to bounce our
ideas off of each other.

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Okay.
So that’s helpful.

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All right.
And was there ever a time when they’re

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like, hey, Adam, you’re
doing that all wrong.

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Everybody has their moment.
Okay.

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All right.

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I’ve always tried to listen
to everybody’s opinion and then

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make the final decision,
which I think is the best.

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Sure.

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Because ultimately, it always
comes down to the customer.

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So a lot of people that work for me are

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always thinking, like,
yeah, I’m really picky.

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But you kind of have to.

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You’re doing service
for other people, right?

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Yeah.

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Anytime you outsource, it’s got to be
better than if you did it yourself.

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Yeah.

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Joke, because

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we put up a ceiling fan.

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We put up a ceiling fan in our house.

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It was a replacement for an existing
ceiling fan in our house.

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It was just an old looking one, and the
base of it was smaller than the old one.

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And I always joke that home projects get

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95% done within a couple of days,
and then the last 5% could be years.

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So we just had that little circle that was

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around the perimeter
of the base of the fan.

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That was the old ceiling color.

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And it’s just a circle.

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And we’re like, hey, we should paint that.

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We don’t have the paint.

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So there’s that ring that snaps on there.

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That ring stayed dangling on the fan
for at least seven years.

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Funny.

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And then my wife’s, like, we should
get whatever certain stuff painted.

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And I’m like, we should probably get
that ceiling painted,

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and the ceiling is painted snap, like,
seven years that thing laid there.

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And it’s just, yeah,
if I were to pay someone

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to install that ceiling fan, well, one,
I don’t even know if you could do that.

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Now they’d probably tell me, like, we need
5000 more projects to do to justify that.

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Yeah.

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But anyways, if a professional were to do
it, they presumably would just finish it.

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Yeah, it would be done.

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And if it was something they didn’t do,

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they probably would recommend,
hey, you need to paint.

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Yeah.

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Hire the painter guy so
we can finish this thing.

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So funny story to that would be

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a Carpenter usually never has
their whole house completed

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on for many years.

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Our first house that we bought,

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I was fortunate enough to build it through
one of the builders I was working for.

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Okay.

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And I didn’t finish that whole house
until we decided to sell it.

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Oh, funny.

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And then another funny story was yesterday

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I went out on a job lead and I
get to the house, and the couple

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that called me over,
the husband was a landscaper.

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Okay.
And

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immediately I was drawn into a lot of his

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landscaping, and I’m like, oh,
these are beautiful steps you have.

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And she’s like, oh, yeah.
My husband is a landscaper.

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Well, then about three quarters of the way

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through the tour of what they
wanted me to come in and look at.

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We get around to the other side

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of the house and the landscaping and
the skirting around the house didn’t have

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any stones in it, and it looked
like it needed to be finished.

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And I was like, oh, once the landscaper
always landscaper kind of like

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that profession may not want to work
on their house, and that’s kind of how I

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feel is like, I don’t always want
to come home and work on my house.

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So I leave those jobs unfinished, right?

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Is that the cobbler’s kids
shoes or something like that?

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That’s awesome.

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So at what point did you
add your first employee?

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Because that had to be a big decision.

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In the beginning, we would work
with other subcontractors.

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And then once the jobs kept getting

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more and more and they were getting
in the higher price ranges, it was time to

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make that big step of actually
making them an employee.

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So I needed to make sure I had all
the insurances to go along with that.

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So I probably did that maybe

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four years ago now.
Okay.

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And how did you figure out how

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to interview and how to qualify
someone for doing a job like this?

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That a mistake.

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Can be very expensive,
and it can cost a customer.

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Like, how do you test the skills
of an employee for something like this?

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It’s hard because you want
to trust them upfront

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and believe everything that they say.

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But what I’ve learned over the last couple
of years is that not everybody is 100%

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honest when it comes to what
they’ve done in the past.

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So I’ve learned that I
just need to be cautious.

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I’m happy to enter an agreement
with them and bring them on board.

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But I try to do a probation period

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with them, and we’re still learning
what is that probation period.

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Sure.
I think within the first couple of weeks,

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I get a pretty good idea of what
they’re capable of doing, right.

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And at that point, if they’re
worthy enough to hang on to,

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we start investing a lot of our energy
to teach them how we do things.

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Got you.
All right.

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Interesting.
Yeah.

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It’s got to be tough.

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Has it been tough to find
employees since you started?

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Okay.
Yeah.

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And what has been the limiting factor?
Is it skill set or is it personality?

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It’s pretty well rounded.

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Sometimes it comes down to money.

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A lot of times it comes down to
the employees not showing up.

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Oh, there’s that.
That’s a big one.

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Who knew.
Yeah.

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All right.

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We’ve had that with my businesses.

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I didn’t even know that was a thing where

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you take on a job and then just one day,
you decide not to come back.

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Sometimes that day is
the first day of work.

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Some guys would like to show up like
five to ten minutes late every day.

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Some people would like to call within five

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minutes of 07:00 a.m. When we
start, they’re not coming.

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And it just makes it difficult because
now you got to juggle everything.

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Or maybe you got to call the client

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and say, hey, our plans changed
and just start to trickle effect

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and try to eliminate that.
Yeah.

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I want to ask you something that I still

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don’t understand with construction,
how you guys schedule stuff.

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You have to be juggling multiple jobs,
because if there’s a subcontractor you’re

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waiting on or there’s parts or pieces
that you’re waiting on or something like

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that, you can’t just say,
hey, guys, go home.

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We’re not paying you for today, right?

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You have to be able to move between jobs,
but you also have to keep jobs going

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and appease the clients that assume that
deck or whatever it is you’re building is

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the only project that you
have until it’s done.

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So how do you juggle that keep clients

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informed, keep your work
people busy and not go crazy.

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It’s really hard

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because the more people that we have
working for amplifies that right.

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Totally.
So I have six employees right now,

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so we need to run, like,
four to six jobs at a time.

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Just this past winter, we learned that
we can’t just stack them all, like,

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on top of each other, because if you get
a delay in one over here, it affects it.

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And it’s a domino effect
all the way through.

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So.

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We’Re learning that we just need

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to communicate a little bit better and
upfront with each other with the clients.

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And that will help smooth
things over a little bit.

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A little bit more tolerable.

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But I’m a client too, to somebody else.
Right.

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So I always try to think of how they
would feel if I was in that situation.

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Right.

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So you do your best, essentially,

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to lay the expectation like,
this is what the plan is.

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And these are the things that can cause

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that plan to deviate things
that are outside of our control.

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Things like wood shortages.

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Windows, cabinets, anything with metal,
plumbing, electrical,

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just about everything is in our industry
right now, a bit of a challenge to get.

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You know, it’s funny.

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I’m trying to think when this was
it was probably three months ago.

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I went to the local builder supply store,

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and I just need to get some
the blue boxes that you just nail

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in the stud and add a couple
of outlets in our basement.

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And it’s not no big deal.

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Just another day and I walk into that
aisle and it’s pretty much empty.

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Come on.

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We’re talking, like, plastic and a couple
of nails, like, $0.50. Yeah.

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Like, $0.19. One of those just like,
how can this be empty?

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And I was thinking,
is that that many people are building or

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is that whatever factory pumps these out
decided that they are going to close down.

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And I thought, Well, how many
of these could they make in a day?

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Yeah.

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Just trying to go through
that how it’s made video, right?

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Like, they’re making these things
by the gazillions every single day.

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It was bizarre.
Yeah.

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And I don’t know if that’s still the case,
but it was one of those things.

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I don’t even know.

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A lot of our vendors are hanging onto

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their stock, like they won’t sell it
to somebody over the phone anymore.

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So they keep it for, like, say, me,

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the contractor who always does
business with them got you.

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We were just looking for some
window Wells yesterday, okay.

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And the ones that we wanted were
no longer there the wrong color.

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We asked the client they were okay

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changing the color
to a different Tan color.

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But I was talking to my sales guy,

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and I’m like, Well, can we go
get him from somewhere else?

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So I made a couple of phone calls,

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and that was the true story right
there where they have them.

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Yeah, but they won’t sell.

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But they won’t sound to you.

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Wow.

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That is just a weird.

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I feel like customer service as a whole

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has kind of been taking his
nose dive just universally.

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And stuff like that just makes
you think, like, I have money.

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You have a product.

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Your business plan is to sell
that product to people with money.

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I feel like we could solve
this at this moment right now.

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Everybody would be happy.

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Yeah, but they’re holding onto it

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for the hopes that maybe one of them
in the housing industry.

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You have the new
construction market, right.

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So they have customers who repeatedly need
the same product over and over and over.

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Let’s say they sold, like, ten houses.

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So I see it from their vision, like,
they want to keep that person busy.

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But, yes, it makes it frustrating
on my end that I do do some work

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with them, but I can’t have
their product right now.

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Yeah.
It just seems weird.

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So now I’m waiting for the truckers
to deliver something from Minnesota.

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So I guess where do you see?

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I’m going to ask you to tell the future

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here a little bit because you’re in the
construction industry, we got wood.

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That was crazy.
High prices.

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I don’t know if it’s cycle anymore.

[00:18:45]
It’s still really high prices.

[00:18:47]
Take a four by eight sheet of OSB.

[00:18:49]
It’s $50.
Okay.

[00:18:51]
When that stuff first came out

[00:18:53]
late, ninetys early, two thousands,
they couldn’t even give it away.

[00:18:57]
That’s essentially saw dust and glue.
Yeah.

[00:19:00]
And that’s why the carpenters of the
earlier days, they didn’t like change.

[00:19:05]
And that was a change.

[00:19:06]
But in the long run, it was more.

[00:19:08]
It was a better product.

[00:19:09]
Okay.

[00:19:11]
It was stronger because what happens is

[00:19:14]
plywood it’s laminated in,
like, five different ways.

[00:19:16]
But once that gets wet, it separates.

[00:19:19]
Osb doesn’t do that.

[00:19:21]
Got you, because it’s
a lot more resiliency.

[00:19:23]
It’s compressed.

[00:19:25]
It’s a good product.

[00:19:28]
It was probably right around $10 a sheet,

[00:19:31]
maybe a little bit more right
before the big crazy markup.

[00:19:37]
Recently recently.

[00:19:38]
So $$10 to $50.

[00:19:40]
That’s a big jump.

[00:19:42]
And especially when you’re talking
essentially sawdust and glue

[00:19:46]
things that are like sawdust,
essentially free for wood.

[00:19:51]
I don’t know what you’d call them.

[00:19:52]
Saw a place, whatever.

[00:19:53]
A male, a male.
Thank you.

[00:19:55]
That’s what I was looking for.

[00:19:56]
And then glue.

[00:19:57]
I don’t know how expensive glue is.

[00:19:59]
But right, the plant down in Texas,

[00:20:01]
from what I’ve told that supplies the glue
for a lot of that product that got shut

[00:20:07]
down completely when that deep freeze
made it south earlier this spring.

[00:20:13]
There is actually a glue fast screen.

[00:20:16]
It messed up their whole
factory from what I’ve told.

[00:20:19]
And we’re talking one supply,
one big facility.

[00:20:23]
Wow.

[00:20:24]
That sounds like a sticky situation.

[00:20:26]
Right?

[00:20:27]
So as far as the other stuff,

[00:20:29]
I guess I feel like from seeing these
boxes that are missing would be in high.

[00:20:34]
I feel like in a few months or something

[00:20:36]
like that, all of a sudden, all this
product is going to show up in companies.

[00:20:40]
Manufacturers are going to be
ramped up where they were.

[00:20:43]
And there’s just going
to be this glut of supply.

[00:20:46]
And people like you just
figured stuff out around it.

[00:20:49]
So you keep business moving.

[00:20:51]
And I don’t know what that’ll do
to prices or anything like that.

[00:20:53]
But I guess, well.
You would hope that they come down.

[00:20:55]
But prices have been going up over

[00:20:57]
the last five years, just nonstop
and rightfully so, companies get bigger.

[00:21:05]
Their margins have to go up a little bit.

[00:21:06]
Sure.

[00:21:08]
Who knows

[00:21:11]
to borrow money right now,
it’s pretty cheap.

[00:21:13]
It’s very cheap.

[00:21:14]
So why wouldn’t you want to build remodel?
That’s true.

[00:21:19]
That’s very true.

[00:21:20]
So I guess your industry,
starting in 2005, you saw.

[00:21:25]
Oh, man.
I’m trying to think we bought our first

[00:21:27]
house, and I was excited to get
six point, 875 percent interest.

[00:21:31]
I mean, like mine was seven.

[00:21:36]
And now we’re talking two and a half,
probably skirting on 3%.

[00:21:40]
Yeah.
And that’s as they go up, which is crazy.

[00:21:44]
So it’s interesting just to compare

[00:21:46]
for the people that are new ish
if you do a 15 year.

[00:21:51]
It even gets better.

[00:21:52]
Yeah.

[00:21:53]
Which is cool.

[00:21:55]
It’s almost free money, right.

[00:21:56]
Almost marginally, except for the whole
inflation thing and all that jazz.

[00:22:00]
Where do you see
the construction industry going?

[00:22:03]
Because it’s got
a fearsome pace right now.

[00:22:06]
I don’t know.
Okay.

[00:22:09]
There’s a lot of young people coming up
that have been living in apartments

[00:22:14]
and condos for a long
time that want to build.

[00:22:17]
So I don’t really see it slowing down

[00:22:22]
at all unless we’re handcuffed by the high
building prices for too much longer.

[00:22:29]
Sure.
Now to go back on your question.

[00:22:30]
A little bit ago,

[00:22:33]
I’ve been told that the market
will probably start coming back

[00:22:39]
where the prices will be
dropping a little bit.

[00:22:42]
Probably about late summer in the fall.

[00:22:44]
Okay.

[00:22:45]
And that’s just to get the factories back

[00:22:47]
up online, hopefully get
more people back to work.

[00:22:51]
Yeah.

[00:22:53]
And that’ll help.

[00:22:54]
I feel like we’re at the point where you

[00:22:56]
can’t blame Pandemic anymore
for today’s problems.

[00:22:59]
No.
I’ve tried to be a huge advocate to just

[00:23:05]
keep moving forward.
Yeah.

[00:23:06]
Right.
Just like any smart business.

[00:23:09]
The only way we get back
to normal is to move forward.

[00:23:12]
Right.
Advance progress.

[00:23:14]
Yeah.
Cool.

[00:23:15]
So you added some employees.

[00:23:18]
At what point did you actually
start marketing your business?

[00:23:24]
Gosh, I don’t really even know.

[00:23:26]
Or maybe let’s back up a step and say
what triggered you to decide.

[00:23:30]
Well, as you grow and you bring more
people on, you have to

[00:23:35]
get out in front of the snowball
that you’re rolling in the snow.

[00:23:38]
Right.

[00:23:39]
So in order to stay ahead of that,
I needed to find more places.

[00:23:43]
The referrals just weren’t working, right?

[00:23:47]
Not to the volume you needed, right? Yeah.

[00:23:49]
So then I started looking at ways
that I could market online.

[00:23:54]
Google the obvious
Facebook turned into one,

[00:24:02]
obviously, the referrals.

[00:24:03]
They’re still talking.

[00:24:05]
Those tend to be the best leads.
Okay.

[00:24:09]
All right.

[00:24:09]
Because you’re already
in the door with the trust.

[00:24:13]
Someone personal went to that person
and said, hey, I trust this person.

[00:24:17]
They did a wonderful job, right?

[00:24:19]
Yeah. We know that a job has already been

[00:24:21]
done, especially in the construction
industry, where I’ve chatted with people,

[00:24:27]
contractors that I kept thinking,
man, how are you in business?

[00:24:30]
Yeah.
You can’t.

[00:24:32]
Like, I had one guy that was telling us
that he walked away from a job and didn’t

[00:24:36]
tell the homeowner
it was just one of those.

[00:24:39]
Like, I realized that I was upside down.

[00:24:41]
So I just walked.
Yeah.

[00:24:44]
Right.
Can you do that?

[00:24:45]
It doesn’t seem right.

[00:24:48]
Unless it’s an absolute worst case
situation, I would never leave my job.

[00:24:56]
I just couldn’t feel good about myself

[00:24:58]
unless I talk to other people,
and they’re just convincing me

[00:25:02]
that the right thing to do is just
to walk away, cut your losses.

[00:25:06]
But at least at that point,

[00:25:07]
I would have told somebody like,
hey, we can’t finish your job.

[00:25:11]
I’m sorry.

[00:25:14]
To be fair, this guy was probably,

[00:25:16]
I don’t know, 90 years old
or something like that.

[00:25:19]
He’d been in the business forever.
Brother.

[00:25:20]
Not 90 60 something.

[00:25:22]
And physically looked broken.

[00:25:25]
Looks very broken.

[00:25:26]
And maybe it was just like
he was a one man show.

[00:25:28]
And he’d been a one man
show for 2030 years.

[00:25:31]
That’s got to be tough.

[00:25:32]
Yeah, very tough.

[00:25:34]
Wearing the same hat
for everyday every position.

[00:25:37]
Yeah.

[00:25:38]
And from my point of view,
I’m like, that’s not a business.

[00:25:40]
That’s a job and a bad one at that.
Because you don’t get.

[00:25:44]
Get paid vacation,
right? If you get vacation,

[00:25:46]
you’re probably in a hospital
bed or something like that.

[00:25:49]
Very true.
Not the goal.

[00:25:51]
It’s hard for me to step out and

[00:25:54]
not be communicating with somebody
while I’m gone, which is fine line.

[00:25:59]
My family has kind of sacrificed

[00:26:03]
a lot because I’m always so busy
and being pulled in many directions.

[00:26:07]
Sure.
Yeah, we all are.

[00:26:09]
How do you work that with your family
to say, hey, this is business.

[00:26:12]
This is family and all that stuff.

[00:26:14]
Well, my wife is very forgiving

[00:26:16]
and my kids were pretty young,
but now I don’t really want to miss what I

[00:26:22]
have left to enjoy
for their childhood, right?

[00:26:25]
Yeah.
They’re only young ones.

[00:26:28]
Are there times when you have to delegate
or how do you work around it?

[00:26:33]
Such as, like, if you say you want to go
to a kids game or something like that.

[00:26:37]
Yeah.

[00:26:38]
As long as I’m communicating,
a lot of clients are like, go do it.

[00:26:45]
All right.
So I learned communicating is big,

[00:26:49]
meaning you allowed me
to communicate even more.

[00:26:52]
Oh, man.

[00:26:56]
The rule I guess that I have that I’ve

[00:26:58]
discovered or learned probably the hard
way is that your communication,

[00:27:02]
how well you do it is limiting factor
and how well you do in business,

[00:27:06]
the better you communicate,
the better you can do in business.

[00:27:09]
It’s just universal rule.

[00:27:11]
You could probably use relationships,
life, et cetera.

[00:27:13]
That’s where I learned it from.

[00:27:15]
It’s a lot easier to talk about

[00:27:17]
the situation and just to be
quiet and not talk about it.

[00:27:20]
Yeah.
So you kind of use that in business, too?

[00:27:23]
Totally.
Even if it’s an uncomfortable situation.

[00:27:25]
Right.

[00:27:26]
But in the long run,
after you have that conversation,

[00:27:30]
usually the smiles come back
and the handshakes are back.

[00:27:33]
Yeah.

[00:27:33]
It is very easy to just
rip off the Band Aid.

[00:27:36]
Usually whether you have to talk

[00:27:38]
to an employee about them dropping
the ball or something like that.

[00:27:41]
Get rid of an employee, talk to a client
about something that messed up.

[00:27:45]
You have that conversation.

[00:27:46]
It’s typically in my experience, at least,
that conversation is typically not nearly

[00:27:51]
as bad as the anticipation
of that conversation.

[00:27:56]
I usually have, like, ten conversations
before that conversation.

[00:27:59]
I want everybody else’s opinion.
All right.

[00:28:01]
And then I’ll go in with my plan,

[00:28:04]
and then the plan changes after
you sit down and start talking.

[00:28:07]
Sure.

[00:28:09]
You just figure it out
and work through it, right?

[00:28:11]
Adapt, improvise.
Move on.

[00:28:12]
I like it what marketing has worked

[00:28:15]
for you, especially
in the construction industry.

[00:28:17]
I know there’s a lot of contractors
and stuff like that all over the country.

[00:28:21]
Probably wondering, hey,
you spent some money on marketing.

[00:28:25]
What were

[00:28:28]
you get what you pay for?
Okay.

[00:28:30]
But you have to be considerate.

[00:28:33]
You just don’t want to throw a lot

[00:28:35]
of money into something because
a little does go a long ways.

[00:28:38]
Now.

[00:28:39]
Internet has been great for a lot
of businesses, and it still is.

[00:28:43]
So we would use those apps per se
and plug some coins into there.

[00:28:52]
Now I’m in the system.

[00:28:53]
Okay, let it work.
All right.

[00:28:55]
So you don’t absolutely have to keep

[00:28:57]
paying to play because
you’re already there.

[00:28:59]
Got you.

[00:29:00]
So my feeling is the more areas that you
are on that surface,

[00:29:04]
the odds are that something’s going
to link up and come your way.

[00:29:09]
Got you.
You’ll get phoned.

[00:29:10]
Yeah.
All right.

[00:29:11]
Tell me a little bit about your sales

[00:29:13]
process, because I imagine
people have to figure out if they trust

[00:29:17]
you or not to do a big job or kitchen
remodel or something like that.

[00:29:21]
It’s not exactly cheap.

[00:29:22]
They’re going to be doing dishes out

[00:29:23]
of the bathtub or whatever for,
I don’t know, months, weeks, whatever.

[00:29:28]
So they want to know
that they can trust you.

[00:29:30]
How do you go about building
that trust before the client side?

[00:29:33]
Well, right now, the name
of the game is to answer your phone.

[00:29:37]
True story.

[00:29:39]
Contractors have a hard time answering

[00:29:42]
the phone because it’s
overwhelming right now.

[00:29:44]
It’s just a nonstop every day
phone call one after another.

[00:29:52]
It’s a great problem,
and I seem to be capitalizing on it

[00:29:57]
because we at least make
that communication up front.

[00:30:00]
And they’re like, wow, I wasn’t
expecting you to pick up the phone.

[00:30:03]
Isn’t that crazy? We live in a world.

[00:30:07]
You want my money?
Yeah.

[00:30:08]
Occasionally I’ll get a text
message that comes in.

[00:30:11]
Sure, those can be a little bit fake.

[00:30:15]
So you just kind of weed
them out a little bit.

[00:30:18]
All right.
And you schedule a meeting.

[00:30:21]
I imagine with the homeowner.

[00:30:22]
I like to try to get as much information
up front from a client to make sure.

[00:30:29]
Well, it helps me see where they’re
at in their decision making process.

[00:30:33]
Got you if they’re earlier on or if

[00:30:35]
the checkbook is just burning
a hole in their pocket.

[00:30:38]
Right.
Okay.

[00:30:41]
It gives me that sense of urgency

[00:30:43]
from them, and then I can
plug them in from that point.

[00:30:48]
Got you.

[00:30:48]
So they’re in the hopefully,
maybe someday phase.

[00:30:51]
Yes, we can stay in contact with them,
but I don’t need to be

[00:30:56]
as aggressive.
Got you.

[00:30:58]
Okay.

[00:30:59]
Or they’re like, hey,
Grandma is coming to live with us.

[00:31:02]
We need this kitchen remodeled
in the next six months.

[00:31:06]
And then we go, wow, and do this.

[00:31:08]
And I’ll see what I can do.

[00:31:10]
Yeah.

[00:31:12]
Tell me from a timeline point of view,

[00:31:14]
I don’t even know what’s
realistic for a typical kitchen.

[00:31:16]
Typical, right?
That’s pretty vague.

[00:31:18]
Well, we were just talking
about this earlier.

[00:31:22]
Cabinets are a huge delay right now.
Okay.

[00:31:26]
Windows, doors.

[00:31:27]
So what we’re trying to do is get a lot

[00:31:31]
of that figured out ahead of time
and try to maybe we shouldn’t start this

[00:31:37]
project until we get a little bit closer
to when our product actually shows up,

[00:31:41]
or just wait for the product
to show up and then dive in.

[00:31:46]
So you wait until cabinets, counter top.

[00:31:48]
All that stuff is in a warehouse

[00:31:50]
somewhere, ready to go
when you’re ready to go.

[00:31:52]
Right.
So then the kitchen doesn’t have to be

[00:31:54]
half torn apart,
waiting for some shipments.

[00:31:57]
Eight months.
All right.

[00:31:58]
Yeah.

[00:31:59]
That’s a long time to do
dishes in a bathtub.

[00:32:01]
Yeah.
Nobody wants to do that.

[00:32:04]
No.
Interesting.

[00:32:05]
So if you had all of the materials,
I don’t mean this to be a loaded question,

[00:32:09]
but it almost seems like it is if you had
all the materials and all that jazz,

[00:32:14]
how long does it take to get
a kitchen redone, cabinets, flooring?

[00:32:18]
I don’t know what else.
I’ve never had a kitchen redone.

[00:32:20]
So I don’t know.

[00:32:21]
I guess a lot of that just
depends on the size.

[00:32:23]
Okay.

[00:32:24]
Yeah. I mean, if you’re
talking really fancy,

[00:32:29]
are you just replacing cabinets or are you

[00:32:31]
tearing down walls? Are you going to move
switches? Is the plumbing changing? Like

[00:32:35]
all those factors come
into play on your timeline?

[00:32:38]
Got you.

[00:32:39]
And then that’s where the trouble comes,
because then you got subcontractors,

[00:32:43]
and then you have to deal
with their schedule.

[00:32:45]
All right.

[00:32:46]
And I imagine they’re not the best
communicators in the world.

[00:32:48]
Negative.

[00:32:50]
Probably worse than that.

[00:32:52]
Usually the ones that are really expensive

[00:32:53]
and really big names, they will
tend to give you a better schedule.

[00:32:57]
If you miss that,
then you’re kind of at their mercy.

[00:33:01]
Got you.
Okay.

[00:33:02]
But if you can stay out in front of that
ahead and say, hey, we’ve got this.

[00:33:05]
It’s coming down.
Should be landing, like Tuesday next week.

[00:33:08]
Are we still good?

[00:33:09]
If we keep plugging the ears,

[00:33:11]
keeping that information in their mind,
it helps get them to our projects faster.

[00:33:18]
All right.
Well, that makes sense.

[00:33:20]
That’s very cool.
I imagine that’s why they’re big, right?

[00:33:22]
Because they’re good at communication.

[00:33:25]
I probably would say four to six
weeks is a pretty good average.

[00:33:28]
Okay, that doesn’t seem that bad.
No.

[00:33:30]
All right.

[00:33:31]
Now, typical sales process. Are people

[00:33:34]
getting 50 quotes or whatever or
what do they typically do right now?

[00:33:40]
We’re seeing a variety of
potential prospects.

[00:33:45]
Okay.
So some get more than one,

[00:33:50]
which is great that you should
have that knowledge, right.

[00:33:53]
It does help.

[00:33:55]
Fine tune what you actually want.

[00:33:57]
So I try to go down my ten questions

[00:34:02]
that we ask each potential prospect
and we ask those questions.

[00:34:06]
Are you getting other quotes?

[00:34:08]
If you are, do you mind
telling us who they are?

[00:34:11]
So then it kind of sets the stage of
what level product that they want.

[00:34:16]
Okay.
All right.

[00:34:18]
Because there’s so much product out there,
you don’t know what people want.

[00:34:21]
Sure.

[00:34:22]
But are they in the high category? Average
or don’t care, just make it work category.

[00:34:28]
So they’re like, hey,

[00:34:29]
my uncle just got out of jail
and he said he’s got a hammer.

[00:34:33]
So we’re getting a quote from him.
Yeah.

[00:34:36]
Then I probably would pass.

[00:34:37]
Okay.

[00:34:39]
Because our overhead and our expenses

[00:34:41]
and stuff that we pay for would
just take us out of that circle.

[00:34:46]
And I would guess the quality of the work.

[00:34:49]
I imagine if uncle found out that he has

[00:34:51]
a hammer and he’s got out of prison,
maybe his craftsmanship is not tiptop.

[00:34:55]
But who knows?
I would say more than less right now.

[00:35:01]
I can walk into some other houses

[00:35:04]
that have had work done,
and the quality has been pretty poor.

[00:35:09]
Okay.

[00:35:10]
Those are hard conversations to have
with clients, but nine times out of ten,

[00:35:14]
they know that they probably should have
paid a little bit more attention

[00:35:19]
to who they were hiring
and what their costs were.

[00:35:22]
They probably should have paid a little

[00:35:23]
bit more, and then they wouldn’t have
been stuck with a low quality product.

[00:35:30]
Subpar end result.

[00:35:32]
I feel like the whole construction,
the contracts that you get for what

[00:35:37]
the contractor is saying that you’re going
to receive is similar to buying insurance.

[00:35:42]
When you talk to an insurance broker

[00:35:43]
and insurance brokers like,
hey, you got to look for this.

[00:35:45]
That and the other thing,

[00:35:47]
I don’t know of many people that actually
read their insurance declarations page.

[00:35:51]
That’s one of the things I like to do just

[00:35:53]
because it’s kind of interesting
and you’re paying a lot of money for it.

[00:35:56]
Yeah.

[00:35:56]
But most people that I’ve talked to are
like, insurance declarations page.

[00:36:02]
What is that?
Right.

[00:36:03]
And so the same thing,
probably with a construction contract

[00:36:07]
where you’re given somebody something
that outlines like, hey,

[00:36:09]
this is what’s covered by this,
which means that it’s probably difficult

[00:36:13]
for potential clients to compare apples
to apples, so to speak,

[00:36:17]
when they’re looking at getting a bathroom
remodel or something like that.

[00:36:21]
Even if you are very descriptive
in what they’re getting,

[00:36:25]
you still don’t know if it’s the same

[00:36:28]
material that the next
person is providing.

[00:36:31]
Oh, got you.
Unless some plans that you get

[00:36:35]
with architects, you’ll get it all
laid out exactly what they want.

[00:36:40]
Those are perfect plans to have.

[00:36:42]
Then everybody knows
exactly what we’re bidding.

[00:36:46]
So then it makes it really competitive.
Got you.

[00:36:49]
Otherwise, we have our vision and we’re
trying to read what the prospect wants

[00:36:53]
and we try to fit them into what
we think that they want.

[00:36:57]
Okay, for their budget, too.

[00:37:00]
Obviously, that drives everything.
Oh, sure.

[00:37:02]
Okay.

[00:37:03]
Are people typically honest with their
budget or they try to withhold.

[00:37:09]
You get it across the board with that.

[00:37:12]
Some people just the other day,
I’m like, hey, do you have a budget?

[00:37:15]
And they’re like, yeah, we have a budget,

[00:37:16]
but we would just like to hear
where you think we should be.

[00:37:20]
Okay.
All right.

[00:37:21]
And basically, at that point,
I’m still willing to come out and

[00:37:25]
basically sell myself and our
products to try to fit them.

[00:37:30]
Yeah.
I want to talk about the home improvement

[00:37:32]
shows and stuff like that because I get
this impression,

[00:37:35]
talking from a lot of people
in the construction trades that people

[00:37:38]
watch some URL TV show
where the bus moves.

[00:37:42]
A house has been completely
redone in a day or two.

[00:37:45]
It costs $50 to redo the entire house.

[00:37:49]
And so a lot of times these contractors
seem to be getting these phone calls

[00:37:52]
saying, like, hey, I want my entire house
redone, and my budget is $6 or whatever.

[00:37:58]
Do people still have that illusion,

[00:38:00]
or does that come around where
people understand the cost?

[00:38:04]
Just yesterday, I went out

[00:38:07]
and visited a couple who wanted to do
a Three Seasons porch,

[00:38:13]
and I already told them ahead of time,
something to the size that they were

[00:38:18]
explaining to me would be X amount
of dollars to X amount of dollars.

[00:38:24]
And I reengaged him.

[00:38:27]
After that, he was going
to talk it over with his wife.

[00:38:29]
And then

[00:38:32]
I could tell that he was a little scared

[00:38:34]
because it was a lot of money,
and we just weren’t seeing eye to eye.

[00:38:38]
But I felt like, well,
I’ll go meet him in person.

[00:38:41]
Sure.

[00:38:42]
Every story is a little
bit different, right.

[00:38:45]
So it’s a lot easier to see it in person
and see how complex that project could be.

[00:38:50]
But when I got there,
I still wasn’t that far off from where I

[00:38:54]
was, but I was still trying to maybe
potentially get them to work with us.

[00:39:00]
However, he was still like,
half the cost in his mind.

[00:39:05]
And at this point, materials
might not have been that number.

[00:39:10]
It probably would have
been down a little bit.

[00:39:12]
And I told him straight up,
I’m like my company.

[00:39:16]
We can’t do that.
Right.

[00:39:18]
And so we left on good terms,

[00:39:20]
and they’ll talk about it. Or maybe
they’ll save up for next year, right?

[00:39:24]
Who knows who knows? Interesting.

[00:39:26]
So that’s why I like to always try
to at least meet people, right.

[00:39:30]
Okay.
You get a feel for what they have.

[00:39:32]
Tell me about when you’re working
with older houses, I imagine.

[00:39:35]
Especially.
Let’s just say kitchen remodel.

[00:39:37]
Someone wants a wall moved and an older
house 80 year old, plus whatever.

[00:39:42]
Maybe even not that old.

[00:39:44]
You find some stuff like, oh,
mold or we have whatever, X, Y or Z.

[00:39:49]
How do you deal with that when somebody’s

[00:39:51]
got a budget and all of a sudden
we need more money to mop up.

[00:39:56]
Well, Thankfully, I grew up in the trades,

[00:39:59]
and I’ve seen a lot of old
houses around the Madison area.

[00:40:03]
So I have a pretty good idea of what might
be behind that wall just by where what’s

[00:40:09]
placed in it or around it
and potentially what it’s holding up.

[00:40:14]
Okay.

[00:40:15]
So like I said,
we try to look at everything up front

[00:40:21]
so that we don’t have problems
on the back end of our deals.

[00:40:25]
Okay.

[00:40:26]
Because that’s a lot harder to work
on after you’re working on the house

[00:40:30]
and you have a big expense at the end
and nobody is prepared for it.

[00:40:34]
Right. So like the old houses

[00:40:37]
with knobbing, tube wiring
or something like that?

[00:40:40]
Yeah.
Take out a wall and you think, oh, my God.

[00:40:43]
Huge fire hazard.

[00:40:44]
The good thing is typically when you’re

[00:40:46]
in these houses and you may have something
torn apart, that may be an old house.

[00:40:50]
You already have that
contractor in the house.

[00:40:53]
So it’s not like they’re
bidding it for the first time.

[00:40:57]
Sure.

[00:40:58]
So the costs tend
to generally be a little bit

[00:41:03]
easier on the clients got you.

[00:41:06]
Unless it’s something
amazing and big and like.

[00:41:10]
Wow, because you’re already there
with people with the equipment.

[00:41:13]
So whatever you have to do, you’re
right there already to do other stuff.

[00:41:16]
So why not just do that?

[00:41:18]
Correct.
Got it.

[00:41:20]
What have been some of the major

[00:41:21]
challenges that you’ve had to deal
with since you started your business.

[00:41:25]
Trying to adapt every day is different.

[00:41:28]
And I always hope to learn
something every day.

[00:41:34]
It doesn’t matter what it is.

[00:41:36]
It doesn’t have to be work related.
All right.

[00:41:38]
So I try to use that as my energy.

[00:41:43]
I’ve also known to take on new things.

[00:41:48]
Maybe we haven’t done it
as much or not at all.

[00:41:52]
Right.

[00:41:52]
But I always feel the more that,
you know, the more that you can do.

[00:41:58]
Very true.

[00:41:59]
So if you get the one phone call that’s

[00:42:02]
going to save your business because you
got to shut the doors, well,

[00:42:06]
maybe that’s that one thing
that you can now do and do it.

[00:42:12]
That’s cool.
I like that.

[00:42:14]
Have your employees grown with you or how

[00:42:17]
is that relationship
in the culture of the business?

[00:42:20]
I guess as far as that goes.

[00:42:23]
We’Re always changing.
All right.

[00:42:25]
I asked that.

[00:42:25]
And I’ll tell you a little bit of
backstory where that question came from.

[00:42:29]
For a short Stanford in my life,

[00:42:32]
six months, I drove a concrete truck,
and every time I would go to a job site,

[00:42:37]
there were people just yelling
at each other, just constantly yelling.

[00:42:42]
I don’t know if they even
said Hello without yelling.

[00:42:45]
It was just a weird thing.

[00:42:47]
I’d be watching from the truck.

[00:42:48]
You know, I got the shoot and I’m dumping

[00:42:50]
concrete for them to move around
to make their driveway or whatever.

[00:42:54]
And guys are just yelling at each other.
Yeah.

[00:42:56]
I’m like, how can you guys tolerate that?

[00:42:59]
It just seemed like an odd thing.

[00:43:01]
Until one day I ended up waiting downtown.

[00:43:05]
We were doing a curb or
something like that.

[00:43:07]
My concrete ended up too thick,
and I tried to dump it out the chute.

[00:43:11]
And of course, it just stacked up.

[00:43:12]
So then I had to go on top of the truck
and try to push this stuff out.

[00:43:15]
And I was like, I get why you’re yelling.

[00:43:17]
This is hard work.

[00:43:19]
Stuff is heavy.
Yeah.

[00:43:21]
Some trades, they just need the job
to get done, and you just speak loudly.

[00:43:28]
All right.
So just bark in order.

[00:43:29]
You just bark it to get it,

[00:43:31]
because you don’t have time to waste,
especially with concrete drying.

[00:43:34]
All right.
Yeah.

[00:43:36]
The older generation.

[00:43:38]
That was pretty typical.
All right.

[00:43:40]
Yeah.
Love, hate, relationship.

[00:43:43]
Okay.

[00:43:44]
Hate at work and love later.

[00:43:47]
Okay.

[00:43:48]
All right.

[00:43:53]
Obviously, when you’re at work and you

[00:43:55]
have employees, you tell them what to do,
but they have emotions and feelings, too.

[00:44:01]
I’m still learning that.

[00:44:04]
I try to understand where they’re coming
from, but if it’s still something

[00:44:09]
that needs to be addressed,
I make that a point.

[00:44:12]
Talk about it.

[00:44:13]
But if I have to continually have to keep
talking about it, then we need to change.

[00:44:17]
Right.

[00:44:17]
And if you can’t change,
then I need to make that change. Because

[00:44:20]
the ultimate goal is for the business
to bring in money, right?

[00:44:23]
Yeah.

[00:44:25]
No project employees?
Yes.

[00:44:28]
Projects?
No.

[00:44:29]
So as much as you need employees

[00:44:32]
to make the circle complete,
you can’t be held hostage by them, right?

[00:44:39]
Yeah.
I get it.

[00:44:40]
I completely understand.

[00:44:41]
What is the goal for your business
over the course of the next?

[00:44:43]
Let’s say five years to grow.

[00:44:45]
A little bit more expand,
try to get a few more people in house.

[00:44:49]
Okay.

[00:44:50]
Maybe get a showroom.

[00:44:52]
Okay. Is there a goal for the size

[00:44:54]
that you’re aiming to be,
or are you trying to be 500 people?

[00:44:57]
I’m open.

[00:44:58]
I’m open for new ideas.

[00:45:02]
Hey, if it’s going to work
and we get big, awesome.

[00:45:05]
If not, I’m comfortable.

[00:45:07]
And we can just figure out how to maximize
the business profits with who we have.

[00:45:13]
Sure.
What would be some advice that you would

[00:45:15]
give someone that was considering
starting their own construction company.

[00:45:20]
Work with somebody else and figure
out what they do wrong.

[00:45:23]
Okay.

[00:45:25]
That’s funny.

[00:45:27]
Are you a book reader?

[00:45:29]
Anything like that or where do you
get your business knowledge from?

[00:45:32]
Just past experiences? I do read some

[00:45:34]
articles here and there
that catch my interest.

[00:45:36]
Okay.

[00:45:37]
Is there anything that somebody told you,
quote, sent you a book?

[00:45:41]
Something like that?

[00:45:42]
That was just super
inspiring? Fortune cookie, something?

[00:45:47]
Just one of my old bosses just gave me
the old fork in the road conversation.

[00:45:51]
You can go this way.

[00:45:52]
You can go straight or go, right.

[00:45:54]
Which one do you choose?

[00:45:55]
Okay.

[00:45:56]
Obviously you have bads
and you have goods.

[00:45:58]
Yeah.
All right.

[00:46:00]
I’ve often found myself asking
that question in tough situations.

[00:46:06]
All right.

[00:46:07]
What is the most difficult conversation
that you’ve had to have? With? In business?

[00:46:12]
Anything, client, employee, anything.

[00:46:17]
That’s a loaded question.

[00:46:21]
I don’t mean to put you on the spot like that.
No, it’s fine.

[00:46:23]
But I feel like the construction industry,

[00:46:26]
from my point of view,
is all about communication

[00:46:29]
and the majority of the people
in that industry are terrible at it.

[00:46:35]
Terrible.

[00:46:36]
And I mean the suppliers, the people doing
the work, the employees, the managers.

[00:46:41]
It is rare that I see a construction

[00:46:43]
company where I’m like that’s a solid,
solid communication culture.

[00:46:47]
And I feel like there’s conversations
that people have to have.

[00:46:51]
That a lot of times they
just don’t have? Right.

[00:46:53]
Because maybe out of fear,

[00:46:54]
or maybe they’re just like, I don’t want
to talk to that guy for whatever reason.

[00:46:58]
I think if I could have
another person in house, that would help

[00:47:05]
that flow

[00:47:08]
the conversation flow with clients.

[00:47:12]
It’s the bad news person.
Yeah.

[00:47:14]
The tough conversations are telling your

[00:47:16]
client like, “Hey, I’ve got absolutely no
control over the subcontractor.” Okay.

[00:47:25]
And because their responsibility was to
bring in that product, and it’s not here.

[00:47:31]
So that’s a really hard
conversation to have.

[00:47:34]
Sure, that is the worst.

[00:47:37]
I don’t like conversations where you’re

[00:47:39]
like, “Hey, I’m sorry about this,
but I have zero power to fix it.” Right.

[00:47:43]
And you’re trying to figure out what

[00:47:45]
avenue can I go through to try
to solve it, but in the end,

[00:47:50]
you don’t.

[00:47:51]
Yeah. Or if they don’t
pick their phone up,

[00:47:55]
it makes it really difficult because

[00:47:57]
they’re expecting the answer,
and you can’t give it to them. Right.

[00:48:01]
Yeah.
That’s tough.

[00:48:02]
I get it.

[00:48:05]
I like to stay in everybody’s
ear as much as I can.

[00:48:08]
That’s the name of the game.

[00:48:08]
So if you’re going to ignore me,
I’m going to call you ten times.

[00:48:12]
Sometimes

[00:48:12]
that’s what you got to do especially with vendors
that are falling through.

[00:48:16]
And I feel as a GC

[00:48:17]
it’s kind of my duty to do that

[00:48:18]
anyway.

[00:48:21]
I’m trying to think of an Orchestra.
Oh, my gosh.

[00:48:23]
You’re the conductor, right?
Yeah.

[00:48:25]
So you got to just play the music.

[00:48:27]
Eventually, they come to their
senses and answer their phone.

[00:48:31]
All right.
Is it tough to find subcontractors that do

[00:48:36]
good work, communicate well and
aren’t obnoxiously priced?

[00:48:41]
No, it’s just I think
they’re in the same boat.

[00:48:43]
Everybody is in our industry.

[00:48:45]
The demand is so high right now,

[00:48:47]
and it causes the people
to shut down. Shut down

[00:48:52]
how so?

[00:48:54]
They don’t want to communicate?
Okay.

[00:48:56]
That’s one of the first things to go.

[00:48:58]
Oh, really?

[00:48:59]
Yeah, I think so.

[00:49:00]
Like, they just stop answering their phone.

[00:49:03]
They just need to focus on getting what
they’re doing done and then come back

[00:49:09]
to the phone call.

[00:49:12]
So they just give up? Maybe.

[00:49:15]
Wow.

[00:49:16]
Oh, that’s crazy.

[00:49:18]
How do you work with that
then?

[00:49:20]
I just keep calling them.

[00:49:21]
Just keep bugging ’em.

[00:49:23]
“We got a job to do, man.

[00:49:25]
We got a job to do.”

[00:49:26]
Just give me an answer.
All right.

[00:49:28]
I need some feedback.
Okay.

[00:49:29]
Yeah.

[00:49:30]
Has there ever been subcontractors where
you had to be like, “it’s not working.”

[00:49:35]
Yeah.

[00:49:36]
Unfortunately.

[00:49:37]
And those are the ones
who you would prepay a little bit.

[00:49:46]
Now, let’s do your job.

[00:49:47]
Or if we have a trusted relationship,
it’s easy to give money down.

[00:49:50]
But money down is tough sometimes.

[00:49:52]
Yeah, I bet.
Cool.

[00:49:55]
Well, Adam, I appreciate
you being on the show.

[00:49:57]
This has been super cool.
Yeah.

[00:49:58]
Thank you. Adam,

[00:50:00]
where can people find you?

[00:50:05]
afconstructionllc.com

[00:50:06]
Okay.
And do you have a phone number.

[00:50:08]
I’m going to put you on here, all right?

[00:50:10]
My phone number is 608-345-2879.
Awesome.

[00:50:14]
Thank you so much for being on the show.
Yeah.

[00:50:16]
Thank you.
This has been

[00:50:17]
Authentic Business Adventures,
the business program that brings you the struggles stories
and triumphs and successes of business owners across the land.

[00:50:24]
If you’re listening to this on the web or

[00:50:26]
wherever you’re listening to it or
watching it, I should say if you could do

[00:50:29]
me a huge favor,
give it a thumbs up, comment and of course,

[00:50:32]
share it with your
entrepreneurial friends.

[00:50:34]
My name is James Kademan.

[00:50:36]
And Authentic Business Adventures has

[00:50:37]
brought you by Calls on Call,
offering call answering services

[00:50:40]
for service businesses looking
for growth on the Web at callsoncall.com

[00:50:45]
as well as Draw in Customers.

[00:50:47]
Business Coaching, offering
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[00:50:50]
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[00:50:53]
And, of course, the Bold Business Book,

[00:50:55]
a book for the entrepreneur in all of us
available wherever fine books are sold.

[00:50:59]
We’d like to thank you,
our wonderful listeners and viewers,

[00:51:01]
as well as our guest,
Adam from AF Construction. Adam,

[00:51:04]
thanks for being on the show.
Yeah.

[00:51:05]
Thank you.
Tell us the website one more time.

[00:51:11]
www.afconstructionllc.com

[00:51:12]
Awesome.
Thank you for listening.

[00:51:14]
We will see you next week.
I want you to stay awesome.

[00:51:16]
And if you do nothing else,
you know what to do.

[00:51:18]
Enjoy your business.