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Gary Tree – Advanced Building Corporation
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You have found Authentic Business
Adventures, the business program that brings
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you the struggle
stories and triumphant successes
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of business owners across the land
coming to you remotely,
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but also through the Sun Prairie Media Center
brought to you by Bank of Sun Prairie.
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My name is James Kademan, entrepreneur,
author, speaker and helpful coach.
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And today we have Gary Tree,
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the vice president,
co-owner at the
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Advanced Building Corporation, general
contractor here in Madison, Wisconsin.
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So you guys do commercial?
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We do predominantly
commercial, little bit of residential.
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High end residential.
All right.
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Depending upon a client.
Yeah.
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So there’s two main reasons
that I want to get you in.
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One is that from the networking group
that we’re a part of,
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you have a lot of insight, just
broadly speaking, in a business sense.
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So I feel like there’s a lot of insight.
Thank you.
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Yeah.
And two, I guess probably three, actually.
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Two is that you bought this business.
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You were an employee, it sounds like.
Yes.
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And then you bought it
with a few other employees.
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Yes.
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Two other fellow employees,
associates got together and purchased
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the the business from the owner
who was looking to retire.
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That’s cool.
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And then thirdly is that you’re
in the commercial building phase,
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which blows my mind from a bidding
standpoint,
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because there’s the whole goal is to bid
a lot of times I imagine they’re blind.
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I imagine sometimes you’re dealing
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with government
and you’re dealing with millions
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of dollars of the projects that I
just can’t wrap my head around.
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Like how many?
I don’t know how deep you guys get,
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how many boxes of screws are
going to be in the sky scraper?
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Well, we bidding is about
40 percent of our work, OK.
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The other portion that really has to do
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with negotiated and return
customers. Our focus
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is really on a client for life and to
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generate a trusted relationship
where we’re seen as
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a trusted party.
Just like you trust your dentist.
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Sure.
Oh, all right.
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So that’s that’s where we want to go.
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But at the same time,
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we recognize that the business here
in Madison is so diverse,
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the economy is so robust and there’s
so many different sectors.
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So we found a way to participate
in a lot of them.
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Yeah, both commercial and to some
extent residential manufacturing.
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The a lot of government work,
some Madison Metropolitan School District
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work, a lot of work for UW remodels
down downtown on the campus.
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Sure.
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And for Dane County and some of their
parks and other facilities in town.
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All right.
We do the dirty jobs.
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We do the stuff that other
folks don’t want to do.
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Sure.
And after you’ve done a lot of them,
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you begin to see a trend in terms
of your cost and efficiencies.
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And we don’t count screws
and we’re putting together a bid.
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OK, we we look at the overall job and go,
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gee, this feels kind of like
the one that we did over here.
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All right?
And we were pretty good with that.
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So we price accordingly.
Sure.
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And we found that we’re competitive.
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OK, we do a fair amount of work.
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We’re fairly successful.
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And then we take that same pricing model
and we apply it on our negotiated work.
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OK. So we don’t get greedy.
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Sure. We want to create value for people,
for clients and help them appreciate
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what we can do in terms
of leading their projects.
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OK, so let’s talk about that.
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Let’s just run down the road here estimate
because it’s fascinating to me and I say
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that’s fascinating because I come from
when I first started my business,
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had a printer repair company
and just pricing for that service.
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Right.
Which is right.
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Half hour.
Forty five minutes at a job.
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And parts are very easy because, you know,
it’s a fifty dollar, one hundred dollars,
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five hundred dollars part,
whatever it is, it’s very simple.
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Right.
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Whatever algorithm you can apply to,
that’s super basic.
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Then I look at fifty million dollars
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building or I think of like the Viking
stadium was that was billions of years.
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Yeah.
Just stupid amounts of money.
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But I think.
How do you know.
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Because a small fraction of that would be
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plus or minus hundreds
of thousands of dollars.
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Well there is, there’s always this,
this range of error and and there’s,
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we don’t do a lot of of
multi multimillion dollar job.
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Well, hundreds of thousands.
Right.
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Yeah, hundreds of thousands.
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And we we bid typically three to five
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million dollar jobs with
without much trouble.
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But we categorize every area
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of the building in terms of a square
foot or some kind of quantities.
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Sure. We can at least have a rough
idea of what the scope is.
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And we’ve got some benchmark numbers,
some roundabout numbers that we would use
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to say, gee, that we’ve been doing
that work for six bucks a foot.
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So at X number of feet,
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that that sounds kind of like
that area is going to be this much.
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Sure.
And then we’ll go out and solicit bids from.
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From our kadry of subcontractors that we
work with,
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we can’t do the work without them, show
how we treat them is really important.
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And so it’s not just on bid day,
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but it’s on the follow through
and the actual implementation
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of the project and managing that and
communicating and then closing it out.
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So we’ll reach out to them, get numbers.
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But a lot of times
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some of the subs we use are too busy
and don’t have time to provide, quote.
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Sure.
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And we’ll use historical numbers and then
we’ll step back and go, gee,
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that feels like we ought
to be able to do it for that.
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No, it’s a little more complicated.
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We should probably build a little
cushion in on that project.
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And then you can’t do that on every trade,
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because if you do, you end
up not being competitive.
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Right.
So you you look at that and you make some
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value decisions that’s
based on experience.
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Okay.
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Just like any one of us that’s done
something for a long time,
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after you’ve done it for the hundredth
time, you know pretty much how to do it.
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And you’re sure you feel you get a feel
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for sure, you get a sense of it and then
you adjust on the fly.
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We have a bit of a advantage because we
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have a fair amount of our own trades
that that we cover work and self perform.
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So we’re able to control
a little bit of that.
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But that there’s also more risk there,
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because if you think that your guys can do
that in a crew of five,
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can do it in 40 hours and it takes 60,
well, you’ve got 10 years or so,
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but it does give you the flexibility to be
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able to control and manage the schedule
of the job and ultimately the quality.
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OK, nice.
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And then how do you this is you mentioned
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subs which the home when you start talking
about communication within construction,
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that’s a whole new topic,
I guess, as far as that goes.
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How do you I guess you’re talking to your
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sub saying, hey, can you quote us
on this little section of the project?
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But then I mentioned it takes time
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for that bit to get totally put
together and then approved it.
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By the time that all happens,
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that sub specifically may or
may not have the availability.
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True.
There’s that.
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Yes, you look at pipelines and things
like that, but you you can never
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turn down work because you
think you may be too busy.
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No answer.
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So the goal is to to try to balance
that work, don’t overcommit,
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but at the same time be able
to perform and have flexibility.
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OK, but,
you know, when we work with our subs,
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we’ve developed developed relationships
with them that are years strong.
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I’ve got relationships with guys
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that I have worked with in the 90s
here in the Carlson area.
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And so it’s just like me calling you up,
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James, and saying, hey, I got this project
would share interested in bidding it.
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We’re looking for somebody that can
partner with us if it’s a negotiated job.
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That right.
And it’s going to look like this.
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The timing is kind of like this.
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This is the characteristic of the client,
the work, the project.
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Would you be interested in talking about
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it and this seeing if
we can work together?
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Sure.
So so that’s on a negotiated side.
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And then likewise
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on the the the competitive bids side,
the public bidding area,
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we work with the same subcontractors
over and over and over.
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The the way that they get treated reflects
on how quickly they respond fair to you.
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So if you are taking care of them
and making sure they understand
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and communicating well and you’re not,
you’re just working together
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and partnering, collaborating together
on the project as opposed to being the
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the guy that yells to get everything done,
then I’m in construction, very common.
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And I up a concrete truck.
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I don’t think I ever
heard anybody not yell.
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Oh yeah.
Yeah.
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So so you’ve got screamers
and shouters and.
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Right.
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And the guys that jump up and down,
we tend not to do that.
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We like to do a little
more controlled planning.
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Sure.
And then understanding schedules change
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and you always got to be
able to work on the fly.
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But it doesn’t do any good
to yell at our our folks.
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We want to collaborate with them and help
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them get on the job,
get it done as quickly as they can,
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get off so they can make
as much money as possible.
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They always want to be put
into a job in the concrete truck.
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And they’re just people
yell and yell and yelling.
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And I swear that they’d be asking like,
hey, would you please pass that wrench?
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And they still find some way to solve like
is a World War Three going on here?
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Yeah, it’s there is this this bravado
that exists within construction.
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Yeah.
And then there there’s just personalities
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that happens in the field all the time.
Sure.
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The goal is to to try to educate folks
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and help them understand that there’s
a different way to do business.
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And with the workforce that we have today,
old school doesn’t work.
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No.
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School just does not work,
you’ve got to find a way to come
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alongside, train, educate,
collaborate and work with folks to help
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them do what do better
and better themselves.
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And sometimes we we get caught up
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in the sense of urgency and we
don’t think about that.
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But that really has to be part of the the
the brand and the DNA of your organization
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in order for your folks to to feel
good about what they’re sure.
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That’s fair.
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You allude to something here that I want
to touch on because it’s a big deal.
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Employees, how do you find employees
are good employees?
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Let’s say
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that’s that’s a big challenge.
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We constantly keep our
ears to the ground, folks.
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We sure that we’ve got resumes coming in,
frequently run through our Web site.
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We have
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relationships with folks that provide
labor services and and other folks that
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recruiters and things that we know
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personally that are keeping their
their ears and eyes open for us.
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We have specific needs, but we
and we like to fill those
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those slots with people that are
going to be around for a long time.
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Sure.
We don’t have a lot of turnover.
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We invest in Cusack’s and
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give them the training they want.
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But more than anything,
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we try to create a workplace where
they can feel like they’re valued.
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All right.
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And and we look for creative
ways to do that.
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Sure.
So it’s going to share any of those?
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Well, you know, in years past,
we’ve done events together.
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We try to we meet
a couple of times a year.
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We try to understand
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what the individuals are wanting to get
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out of their roles and then find some
appropriate training to help them grow.
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Sure.
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But a lot of our guys are multitasked.
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They’re they’re carpenters,
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they’re fitters, or we’re able
to trim carpentry, rough carpentry.
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All right.
Don’t mind grabbing a shovel.
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If there has to be a little bit of dig
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in to do something, we should
have some demolition to do.
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And so finding people that like to do
that kind of work and helping them
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improve their skill set around, that is
something we pay a lot of attention to.
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Gotcha.
All right.
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That’s cool.
That’s very cool.
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That seems rare in the construction.
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Well, anyway, well, I’m given
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six months ago that the unemployment rate
was so low it was hard to find good folks.
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Yeah.
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And we’ve
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we have a medical program.
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We’ve got a dental program.
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We got a rock program.
Okay.
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A lot of our folks have vehicles.
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So we we respect and acknowledge our
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employees sure benefit to the company
and and try to take care of them.
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That’s cool.
That’s very cool.
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Now, I want to touch on you buying
the business with some other employees.
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How did it happen?
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How did the owner talk about negotiations
for how you figured out how to pay for it
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or what to pay for it
and to share exact numbers?
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Well, that was
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this has been an interesting journey.
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And there’s been a lot of different
people involved in it.
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And for me, it was I’m doing something
that I really love to do, OK?
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I feel like it’s something
I was meant to be be doing.
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It’s kind of I like creating things out
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of nothing satisfying, helping helping
customers achieve their objectives.
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Nice.
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And being to them an expert
in a field where they can’t do sure.
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Do that.
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I used to do I used to build
medical facilities and.
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Oh really?
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And we would talk to the physicians
and they were great at what they did.
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But they really have the tool set
to be able to create a facility.
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Sure.
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That would help them to be
better at their job.
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And that’s what that what I was
a part of being able to help them do.
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So construction has always been a part of
my my experience since I got on college.
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Yeah.
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And
the problem is for me is that I got
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an engineering background,
engineering training.
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And I think to a certain extent
that’s that can be a restraint or
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constraint when it comes
time to be an entrepreneur.
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Oh, sure.
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Because as you know, James, you look
at something and go, hey, I can do that.
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What do I do with that training?
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From an engineering perspective,
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it’s all about factors of safety
and analytics numbers.
[00:14:45]
Sure.
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And so getting out of that comfort zone
and saying, hey, I need to need to think
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a little bit differently about
this has been a challenge.
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All right.
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And for me, that I stepped down
into that area in twenty ten.
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And start a little consulting firm myself.
OK?
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Left to another firm,
I didn’t I didn’t like where it was
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headed, so I had
an opportunity to do that.
[00:15:10]
And for two years, I was
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a one man consulting firm doing
construction management consulting.
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All right.
And I enjoyed it.
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It was a lot of fun,
but it wasn’t sustainable.
[00:15:20]
All right.
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And so that’s sustainable because
the volume of clients well,
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where I was at geographically not here
contacts and trying to do 100 hundred
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percent on the job and then try
to generate other opportunities
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and do some marketing as a one
person company is very, very tough.
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Yeah.
So
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when we moved back to Madison in twenty
fourteen, I ended up
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with Advanced Building Corporation
and the owner came to me and to a number
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of other people in the firm and said,
hey, I’m thinking about retiring.
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Would you like to purchase a company.
All right.
[00:16:03]
This was after you were there a couple
of years, three months, three.
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So it was and basically three of us
stepped up and said, yeah, we’d like to.
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And then we we
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then the reason we did that was because we
we had complementary skill sets that
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each of us had different skills
we brought to the table.
[00:16:28]
Sure.
And so the the synergy that there
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developed looked like it
would be a good thing.
[00:16:35]
Two of us had businesses in the past and
we’re looking to be able to do that again.
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Okay.
And and understanding that we’d much
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rather take the risk and work for ourself
than to work for another entity.
[00:16:51]
Sure.
And whoever else would buy it, right?
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Yeah.
Yeah.
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So so we were able to, over
the course of six months, negotiate a
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price and put the paperwork
into place to to take over.
[00:17:06]
All right.
And and we did.
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And and so we have a look back
and it’s been a good experience.
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The economy was strong.
Sure.
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And and so that helped us.
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And so we’re we’re we’re into were we just
finished our third year of ownership.
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So we’re fourth year.
All right.
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We brought on another partner a year ago
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that added another strength and synergy
in another one of our sectors.
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Sure.
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One of our guys retired that that used
to provide support in that area.
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So it’s been a strategic plan.
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OK, strategic growth and looking at,
well, OK, so where do we want to go?
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How are we going to brand ourselves?
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The company’s been around since ninety
six, so it’s been around a long while.
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Yeah.
But it’s not been heavily marketed.
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OK, and for many years it’s flown under
the radar screen to do great work.
[00:18:01]
I have a lot of great clients
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but it just wasn’t very well known
the brand was really established.
[00:18:06]
So we’re trying to take that and I think
we are taking it to the next level.
[00:18:10]
Okay.
[00:18:10]
And making some inroads through social
media sites and and those kinds of things.
[00:18:17]
Being a sweet podcast.
Yeah, yeah.
[00:18:19]
Who who knew that this
would be part of the right.
[00:18:21]
It doesn’t hurt.
It doesn’t hurt.
[00:18:23]
So you don’t want to came to you and said,
hey, I want to get out and I’m throwing it
[00:18:28]
at you first essentially
or all of the employees.
[00:18:31]
Well, he basically had a few
[00:18:35]
folks in mind that he knew had the
potential to be able to run the company.
[00:18:40]
Sure.
[00:18:40]
Not everybody has that capability
or that interest.
[00:18:43]
And so when I interviewed with him
[00:18:47]
the very first question he asked me for,
I came to work for him was how do you feel
[00:18:50]
about the owner owning
the company or buying a company?
[00:18:54]
All right.
[00:18:54]
And my answer was,
I’d always rather work for myself.
[00:18:57]
Sure.
And somebody else.
[00:18:59]
All right.
[00:19:00]
So that was in the back of his mind.
[00:19:02]
He was looking to retire.
[00:19:03]
And so that time.
[00:19:05]
Yeah, this is a good
way for him to do that.
[00:19:08]
So you, the business partners that you
[00:19:10]
ended up with, you worked
with for three months, three months.
[00:19:14]
OK, yeah.
[00:19:14]
So I guess their business partnerships
are weird thing, good and bad.
[00:19:20]
So one, I assume that you like
them when you worked with.
[00:19:23]
Well, you know, you get
a sense of of people’s
[00:19:28]
or their values and and you get
a sense of their character.
[00:19:33]
It doesn’t take long to figure folks out,
[00:19:37]
especially if you’re
working alongside them.
[00:19:39]
And so I’d work closely with
Pat Balwyn and Craig Kilshaw.
[00:19:43]
Sure.
[00:19:44]
And knew they were
excellent guys, you know.
[00:19:47]
And so but we also knew that we were going
[00:19:50]
into an area that was unknown
and we’ll figure it out as we go.
[00:19:54]
Sure.
[00:19:55]
And so we committed to each other that
none of us were going to do it alone.
[00:19:59]
We could.
Do it without each other, sure,
[00:20:00]
that that was our business
agreement for two and a half years.
[00:20:04]
All right.
And we didn’t didn’t even have
[00:20:07]
a partnership agreement
until a few years down the road.
[00:20:11]
I’m not going to complain about
that because I had the same issue.
[00:20:13]
We didn’t we didn’t need it.
[00:20:15]
And it’s still we got a business agreement
[00:20:17]
now, but it’s still
a trusted relationship.
[00:20:21]
And it’s the same kind of relationship
internally within our leadership group as
[00:20:27]
we have externally with the owners
and clients that we work with.
[00:20:31]
All right.
It’s all based on trust.
[00:20:33]
Sure.
The the idea of having to
[00:20:37]
codify everything and how you do it,
it doesn’t get any work done.
[00:20:42]
So you you look you work based on trust.
[00:20:47]
And for me,
my my life and my my wife and I have lived
[00:20:53]
by a mantra that it’s always the right
thing to do the right thing fair.
[00:20:57]
And that is that has been
our underwriting principle.
[00:21:02]
It always costs something.
Sure.
[00:21:04]
And the question is,
are you willing to pay the cost?
[00:21:07]
You know, it’s interesting you say
that I just watched the movie.
[00:21:10]
I think it was called me five and it’s
was just a typical spy movie, whatever.
[00:21:14]
But they had something in there said you
can either do good or you can do well.
[00:21:18]
And I’m like, oh,
[00:21:21]
is this one of those lines in a movie?
[00:21:23]
They use that a few times.
Yeah.
[00:21:24]
That just had you just you’re like, oh,
what a clever and correct statement.
[00:21:30]
Yeah.
So yeah, it’s interesting.
[00:21:32]
I completely understand where
you’re coming from there.
[00:21:34]
So was it tough to find financing to buy
[00:21:36]
the business or did so this was
this was the owner financed
[00:21:42]
contract.
It was like you’re buying a land contract.
[00:21:45]
OK, basically.
Yeah.
[00:21:46]
And so
[00:21:48]
it was really easy.
[00:21:49]
We we established a price and some
[00:21:53]
of the criteria early on and then
the financial piece fell into place.
[00:21:59]
Sure.
[00:21:59]
And then, you know, there were certain
commitments we had to make sure.
[00:22:03]
And and then after we got through with our
first year, we approached our bank
[00:22:09]
and said, hey, would you be interested
in underwriting this
[00:22:13]
now that we’ve demonstrated that,
sure, we know what we’re doing.
[00:22:16]
And they said, sure, all right.
[00:22:18]
So we were able to work through
that process pretty seamlessly.
[00:22:23]
So owner, owner, previous owner
at that time got a lump sum.
[00:22:26]
I got a lump sum.
And that was part of the agreement that we
[00:22:29]
had that at any given point in time
we’d be able to buy that contract.
[00:22:33]
So that works out well because then
[00:22:35]
the business is essentially paying
for you to own the business.
[00:22:37]
Right?
Right.
[00:22:38]
Which is the goal.
Which is the goal.
[00:22:39]
I mean, that’s the goal of any business.
[00:22:41]
I mean, there’s you’ve got businesses
where you start up and then you’ve got
[00:22:45]
them operating and then you’ve got
them when you’re retiring from them.
[00:22:48]
Right.
[00:22:49]
So start ups, you want to
set it up so that you’ve got enough
[00:22:54]
revenue to be able to make the payments,
cover the costs, salaries and things
[00:22:59]
so that you can get to the point
where you paid off your loan.
[00:23:02]
And then but at the same time,
[00:23:04]
you also want to be investing
in the business and then the people.
[00:23:07]
Yeah.
And so it’s a little it’s a little tricky,
[00:23:09]
but you just have to keep
your thumb on the pulse.
[00:23:12]
That’s the name of the game.
No, no, I like it.
[00:23:15]
So you mentioned that
Advanced Building Corporation wasn’t
[00:23:17]
really marketed or hasn’t
been marketed much.
[00:23:20]
So how do you get people to know you or
even recognize your name,
[00:23:23]
the people that I guess smatter,
the people that you’re supplying?
[00:23:26]
BINSTED Well, there’s you know,
you’re working with a group of folks that
[00:23:32]
know who you are.
[00:23:34]
And and some of our clients
have been repeat clients again.
[00:23:38]
And that’s that’s helped.
[00:23:40]
Some of the folks that have worked
in sales for us have longstanding
[00:23:45]
relationships and networks
within the community.
[00:23:48]
So when businesses
are thinking about growth,
[00:23:52]
they’d reach out and say, hey,
Tom, I’m thinking about a building.
[00:23:56]
Yeah.
And I talk to you guys about it.
[00:23:58]
And so a lot of the work that we we
the 40 to 60 percent of the work that’s
[00:24:05]
negotiated that we do comes
to a relationship building.
[00:24:08]
All right.
[00:24:10]
And you have to work at that.
[00:24:14]
That’s a continual thing.
[00:24:15]
You never know when there’s going
to be a pay off on that area.
[00:24:19]
Sure.
And so the idea is to just continue
[00:24:22]
to strengthen your network and reach out,
let people know who you are, build up your
[00:24:28]
the public’s awareness of you or the
business, the business awareness of you.
[00:24:33]
Sure.
Help them understand what you do and how
[00:24:36]
you do it and why you’d
be a better choice.
[00:24:39]
So that to say that you guys haven’t
[00:24:40]
really done any of the
traditional radio TV.
[00:24:43]
Oh, yeah.
We’ve had we’ve had ads on on ESPN.
[00:24:48]
We’ve had well you had on Clear Channel,
[00:24:51]
we had a Web site about six
years ago with the first website
[00:24:57]
and so.
Over the last three years,
[00:25:00]
three and a half years, we have revised
our website, revamped it twice now.
[00:25:07]
Sure, we are marketing
through social media.
[00:25:11]
We got Facebook page.
All right.
[00:25:14]
And so we are trying
to there’s stuff going on.
[00:25:17]
There’s lots of stuff going on now.
[00:25:19]
And for a number of years,
[00:25:20]
we were just trying to generate
a better awareness of who we are
[00:25:26]
by radio spots and and just some real,
real short clips.
[00:25:34]
Now, we’ve kind of gone to the next level
[00:25:36]
where we’re trying to engage with folks
through social media in ways that
[00:25:42]
they’re searching out for us and looking
to see what we do and how we do it.
[00:25:48]
Sure.
[00:25:50]
So I think we’ve we’ve come a long way.
Sure.
[00:25:54]
So I just want to backtrack a little bit.
[00:25:56]
Did you say you guys got your
first website six years ago?
[00:25:59]
I think that’s about when it was.
Wow.
[00:26:01]
So before then.
Ninety six on up until six years ago.
[00:26:05]
Yeah.
No website.
[00:26:07]
I don’t think so.
Yeah I know, I know that when I came on
[00:26:12]
four years ago
[00:26:14]
there are 16 there.
[00:26:16]
The website had been live for maybe
[00:26:19]
a couple of years and Pat
had had had put together
[00:26:23]
some content for it and reached
out and had had it generated.
[00:26:29]
And then we when we took over the new
ownership, we wanted to upgrade that.
[00:26:35]
And so we we spent the better part
[00:26:37]
of a year getting that together
live with that.
[00:26:40]
All right.
[00:26:40]
Now, as we’ve changed locations
and brought on another partner and our
[00:26:44]
market has continued to grow a little bit,
we wanted to reach out to the community
[00:26:52]
through additional social media,
all integrated with the website for sure.
[00:26:56]
And all that goes on there.
All right.
[00:26:59]
And so we just launched our our new
[00:27:02]
website, I think a month,
maybe five weeks ago.
[00:27:05]
Wow.
[00:27:06]
That is I’m just like it’s crazy to think.
Right.
[00:27:09]
1996, the website or the web was
just taking off.
[00:27:14]
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:27:15]
It’s it’s I’m amazed at the amount
[00:27:17]
of traffic that it gets generated
through the social media is just.
[00:27:22]
I’m just amazed.
Sure.
[00:27:24]
Yeah.
Social media is just a weird
[00:27:28]
it’s an interesting dynamic, I guess,
[00:27:29]
because you get a lot of people that spend
an insane amount of time on there.
[00:27:32]
They have a lot of people that just don’t.
Yeah.
[00:27:35]
And it’s a complicated marketing process.
[00:27:40]
It’s it’s not a straightforward
as we as we’re learning,
[00:27:45]
there’s a lot of different
methods and ways to to share.
[00:27:50]
I feel like it should be easier
[00:27:54]
and I’m I it should be.
[00:27:56]
But I mean, we you and I go and we zoom or
[00:27:58]
we we search on something
and then we get it.
[00:28:01]
Then the next day we open up our browser
and we’re seeing ads on those very same
[00:28:06]
similar projects or products and going,
well, how did that happen?
[00:28:10]
Right.
And and so that same kind of logic,
[00:28:12]
as you know, James, is taken
to the the rest of the social media.
[00:28:16]
Oh, absolutely.
And in building construction and.
[00:28:19]
Right.
I just mean, as a person placing ads,
[00:28:22]
I feel like they could make it easier,
like you being able to plug in.
[00:28:26]
This is going after right after,
I don’t know.
[00:28:30]
Forty two year old woman that makes
at least seventy five thousand dollars.
[00:28:33]
I wanted to live in this area,
go like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
[00:28:39]
Yeah, it’s I don’t know
a lot about that process.
[00:28:44]
I do know that now that is we’ve
we’ve debriefed with our website designers
[00:28:49]
and and whatnot,
that we’re seeing the demographics and we
[00:28:54]
had tried to target and where
the demographics fell for sure.
[00:28:58]
And making adjustments and.
Well, how do you do that?
[00:29:00]
Well, we got a way to do that, you know,
so there are some trade secrets there.
[00:29:03]
I think.
Sure,
[00:29:05]
they get played.
They charge you for the smoke.
[00:29:07]
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
[00:29:09]
And but at the end of the day, it’s like,
[00:29:10]
OK, so how many how many calls did
we get right into the business.
[00:29:15]
Yeah.
Yeah.
[00:29:16]
And and so that’s what we’re measuring
[00:29:19]
and we’re beginning to see traction
which then is where that’s OK.
[00:29:22]
Which is.
This is amazing.
[00:29:24]
Yeah.
The name of the game.
[00:29:26]
Yeah.
Yeah.
[00:29:26]
We don’t care about clicks.
We care about buys.
[00:29:29]
Yeah.
Yeah.
[00:29:29]
So it takes time.
[00:29:31]
None of that happens overnight.
[00:29:32]
No and certainly not.
[00:29:34]
No it’s interesting.
[00:29:36]
So you’re the partnership
so far are going well you.
[00:29:39]
It’s Yeah.
Yeah.
[00:29:39]
OK, I, I,
I’ve never been in a partnership before so
[00:29:45]
I don’t have anything to share
to measure it against but I think it’s.
[00:29:50]
Yeah.
Well it’s a relationship.
[00:29:52]
Yeah.
[00:29:52]
So in the end we’ve all had good
we’ve all had less than good.
[00:29:55]
You got to work at I’m sure.
I mean great.
[00:29:57]
You just they just don’t
[00:30:00]
they just don’t get
created without an effort.
[00:30:02]
Mm hmm.
So you before you were a co-owner,
[00:30:07]
I guess you were the sales
manager, is that right?
[00:30:10]
No, I was a project manager,
but I did marketing for them.
[00:30:13]
OK, so I came on as kind of a
[00:30:18]
business development guy.
[00:30:20]
OK, so you must have had
contacts before you came on.
[00:30:26]
To some extent, but not a lot, OK?
[00:30:28]
We lived in this community.
[00:30:30]
We moved here in ninety one, OK.
[00:30:32]
And then we were here till 2004 and I was
[00:30:36]
involved in the construction
business of general contracting and.
[00:30:39]
Sure.
And then we moved to Atlanta and wow.
[00:30:44]
For OK.
And then we moved back
[00:30:47]
to Madison and 14.
[00:30:50]
So in those 10 years, Madison
exploded between four and 14.
[00:30:54]
So a lot of the context that I had,
[00:30:57]
plus we had the downturn and eight,
nine, one construction show folded.
[00:31:02]
So I lost a lot of contacts.
[00:31:04]
Of course,
[00:31:06]
the landscape changed, but I had a few.
Sure.
[00:31:09]
So I run into those those
folks occasionally.
[00:31:13]
Sure.
Every once in a while.
[00:31:14]
Yeah.
Madison seems like a big small town.
[00:31:17]
Yeah, it’s yeah.
[00:31:18]
It’s got the best of both worlds.
Sure.
[00:31:20]
And so the question is,
what’s the best way to re
[00:31:25]
reinvest in your relationships
and to generate those contacts.
[00:31:30]
And one of the things I did a joint
downtown Rotary to get to know people, OK,
[00:31:34]
and then a number
of Chamber of Commerce’s.
[00:31:37]
Sure, we’re out meeting and talking
[00:31:39]
to people and try to find a way
to connect and get back to the community.
[00:31:43]
Sure.
So you can
[00:31:46]
find out who those contacts are.
Sure.
[00:31:48]
That’s fair.
[00:31:49]
Tell me about the Rodrique
that’s always been.
[00:31:52]
I’ve always been intrigued by that group.
[00:31:54]
Well, the Rotary International
was was founded in Chicago.
[00:32:00]
Oh, really?
Around nineteen twelve.
[00:32:03]
And it’s an organization
that’s international.
[00:32:06]
It is
[00:32:09]
the it’s really about
service above self, OK.
[00:32:12]
It’s a it’s a selfless organization
[00:32:15]
and the overall intent is to find a way
to help improve our communities
[00:32:19]
and in whatever areas and not just
locally, but internationally as well.
[00:32:24]
Sure.
So there are a multitude of of different
[00:32:30]
things that are going on with
communication and mentoring
[00:32:36]
and partnership and and trying
to give back to the community.
[00:32:41]
Sure.
In ways that are effective and important.
[00:32:43]
OK.
And so this particular Rotary Club
[00:32:47]
in Madison has before covid had
about five hundred members.
[00:32:52]
Did it really.
Yeah.
[00:32:53]
It’s one of the 10th largest
Rotary Clubs in the world.
[00:32:57]
Wow.
[00:32:58]
And it’s filled with a lot of interesting
[00:33:01]
and important people and a lot of people
that are just coming in like myself
[00:33:06]
that that don’t have a lot
of history in town, if you will.
[00:33:10]
Sure.
But what’s what I found unique about it is
[00:33:13]
it’s just, again, people just wanting
to help and giving of themselves.
[00:33:18]
Sure.
And not just their money and their time,
[00:33:21]
but in a lot of times, they were
they served in their profession.
[00:33:25]
And we we also get a lot
of speakers every week.
[00:33:29]
We’d have lunch and a speaker would come
in and for twenty five, thirty,
[00:33:33]
thirty five minutes give a talk
and a Q&A time after that.
[00:33:38]
Sure.
And it would be on topics that you
[00:33:40]
probably wouldn’t have gone to listen
to if they were offered someplace else.
[00:33:46]
But because you’re kind of a captive
[00:33:47]
audience, they come in and they share
and you get to the end of that and go.
[00:33:52]
That was some of the most amazing
stuff that I’ve ever heard.
[00:33:56]
And
[00:33:57]
it starts to change the way you think.
[00:34:00]
And it all it all works together over time
[00:34:04]
and again, the the value there is the
investment in the time share over time.
[00:34:09]
I’ve been a part of that group for two
[00:34:10]
and a half years and I feel like
I’m just a babe, if you will.
[00:34:16]
Sure.
In the program.
[00:34:17]
But I’ve got some good friends there, OK,
[00:34:19]
that have been involved
for a long, long time.
[00:34:21]
And I’ve seen some of the things
[00:34:22]
that they’ve done and it’s it’s
pretty cool stuff that is cool.
[00:34:25]
I presented it to Rotary
[00:34:28]
oh, a year and a half ago,
something like that.
[00:34:31]
Back when you could present in person.
[00:34:33]
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:34:34]
That’s we don’t know what the Rotary is
going to look like going forward now.
[00:34:38]
None if anybody does,
nobody knows anything.
[00:34:40]
But
[00:34:42]
some of the topics and some of the
speakers have been just phenomenal.
[00:34:46]
I’ll never forget Coach Healey.
[00:34:48]
She’s the I don’t know if you know her.
[00:34:50]
She’s the volley or
the softball coach for UW.
[00:34:54]
Okay.
Here in Madison.
[00:34:56]
Okay.
And.
[00:34:57]
She
[00:34:59]
leads and guides these young ladies
[00:35:03]
to to make good decisions on the ball
field and helps them to achieve greatness.
[00:35:09]
Yeah, and
[00:35:11]
she was so impressive.
[00:35:12]
I’ll never forget some of the things
[00:35:15]
that she shared, some of the books
that she she encouraged us to read
[00:35:20]
from a business constant
[00:35:22]
because as a business,
I often think about businesses and where
[00:35:26]
the mentors to help help people,
you know, get better or to even step out.
[00:35:32]
And I had no mentor.
[00:35:34]
When I decided to open up my consulting
firm, it was like, well,
[00:35:38]
I need to find a way to make
some income and I’m happy here.
[00:35:41]
So what can I do?
Yeah.
[00:35:43]
And so I was on my own.
[00:35:44]
But Coach Healey would
[00:35:47]
she’d bring these girls in from different
high schools and bring them on the team.
[00:35:51]
And then they created an environment there
where they mentored the kids to to fail.
[00:35:58]
Oh, so think about it.
[00:35:59]
You know, you’re your batting average.
[00:36:02]
You’ve got a great batting average.
[00:36:04]
If you can hit three on a ten.
Sure.
[00:36:05]
So what’s your response to the students
when they swing and miss and they’re
[00:36:10]
they’re seven out of 10 times, 70 percent
of the time they’re feeling right.
[00:36:14]
How are you encouraging them?
[00:36:15]
How are you helping them to succeed so
[00:36:17]
that and so they would
practice this kind of stuff?
[00:36:20]
They would practice feeling
and practice encouraging.
[00:36:24]
And I’m probably paraphrasing it wrong,
[00:36:26]
but but the whole concept there was one
when we encouraged them to just go all in.
[00:36:32]
Yeah.
[00:36:32]
And then when they fail,
we get we help them up to goal and again.
[00:36:37]
All right.
And from a I thought, well, what a what.
[00:36:40]
Why would you not want
to send your child there?
[00:36:44]
I mean, what a great life lesson.
[00:36:45]
And then how do we take that and
parlay it over into business.
[00:36:49]
Sure.
[00:36:51]
All right.
[00:36:52]
And so is those are the kinds of things we
get exposed to or especially downtown or.
[00:36:58]
All right.
Very cool.
[00:37:00]
As clever as clever.
[00:37:01]
How did you choose or
decide on Rotary versus
[00:37:06]
insert other group here?
[00:37:08]
I looked at who they were.
[00:37:10]
I looked at a number of different
[00:37:14]
organizations and I didn’t want to just
join a group that was all about itself.
[00:37:19]
Sure.
[00:37:20]
And Rotary’s mission,
a service above self.
[00:37:23]
All right.
Was really what spoke to me.
[00:37:27]
And
[00:37:29]
they they they’re just a
[00:37:32]
they have a program and they are
all about, you know, this is not for me.
[00:37:38]
This is this is for others.
[00:37:40]
It’s about giving back to the community.
Sure.
[00:37:42]
And then you obviously, as you do that,
[00:37:45]
you create some relationships
with folks there.
[00:37:48]
And that opens up an opportunity
maybe for some business.
[00:37:51]
Sure.
But if you go there with the idea that I’m
[00:37:53]
going to this is a business venture,
I’m going to it’s not so much.
[00:37:57]
It’s like whenever you do a project
[00:37:58]
that you’ve probably worked alongside
other when you’ve built something,
[00:38:01]
help somebody build a house,
a garage or whatever.
[00:38:05]
Strong relationships are forged
during the process of doing that.
[00:38:09]
Yes, college is a good example.
[00:38:11]
Strong relationships are forged in college
[00:38:13]
because you’re all in this
crucible together.
[00:38:16]
And so and so you take notes.
[00:38:18]
And so similar things happen when
you’re involved in every project.
[00:38:23]
Sure.
Yeah, it’s fair.
[00:38:25]
It’s interesting because I’m part of this
group that’s still looking to define
[00:38:28]
itself, what it’s for,
what it does, all that jazz.
[00:38:31]
And there’s a portion of the board
[00:38:33]
that says we’re networking group because
we want to attract business owners
[00:38:36]
and business people and business
people want networking groups.
[00:38:40]
And the other portion, myself included,
[00:38:41]
is more where education or where
we’re for advancing the community.
[00:38:46]
Because my argument was networking
is going to happen naturally.
[00:38:50]
Exactly whether your name is
the networking group or not.
[00:38:53]
And it’s it’s more likely to happen if
[00:38:56]
you’re meeting, not for the purposes
of networking, correct?
[00:38:59]
Correct.
[00:39:00]
Because networking in and of itself
can feel pretty shallow.
[00:39:04]
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah.
[00:39:06]
On the verge of self serving.
[00:39:08]
But when you’re when you’re working along
somebody on a project and you go,
[00:39:13]
oh golly, I didn’t I didn’t know
that that was one of your values.
[00:39:17]
I didn’t know that you felt that way.
I did that.
[00:39:20]
That’s and now all of a sudden, you you’ve
created a bond at a deeper level, right.
[00:39:25]
Then just like, well,
what lead can you throw me this week?
[00:39:28]
Yeah, he’s always joked with the people.
[00:39:30]
I used to go to networking
events all the time.
[00:39:32]
Right.
[00:39:32]
And it seemed like I’m just a salesperson
going to try to sell other salespeople,
[00:39:37]
something that everybody’s
interested in selling.
[00:39:39]
Nobody’s interested in buying.
[00:39:41]
Well, the best the best,
[00:39:44]
the best thing that I don’t
know how to phrase is.
[00:39:47]
So regarding networking,
[00:39:50]
one of the questions that was asked one
time of me was kind of in a an aha moment.
[00:39:57]
So you’re going to this networking event
and you’re going there to network.
[00:40:02]
So how many of you that are going there
are going there to buy something?
[00:40:10]
Zero.
All right.
[00:40:11]
So so if you’re going there, maybe a beer.
Yeah.
[00:40:15]
If you’re going there with the idea that
you’re going to sell somebody something.
[00:40:18]
Yeah.
You’re going for the wrong reason.
[00:40:20]
Yeah, right.
And so but that’s kind of what it always
[00:40:24]
develops down to.
[00:40:26]
I need to go to this network
so I can make a contact.
[00:40:28]
Well, in reality, you want to go someplace
where you can develop a relationship.
[00:40:33]
And those I found those to be easier to do
[00:40:38]
around a project because you
have a shared value already.
[00:40:43]
Right.
[00:40:43]
And then you could just drill
down a little bit deeper.
[00:40:45]
So, I mean, this is something else
that you’re talking about, too.
[00:40:48]
You’re not just trying
to sell necessarily.
[00:40:50]
You’re talking about trying to sell it all
[00:40:51]
you’re doing you’re
doing you’re doing good.
[00:40:53]
Yeah.
Like the weather or sports or whatever.
[00:40:56]
Top of mind in the news if
you want to talk about it.
[00:40:59]
Sure.
It’s something to converse about and you
[00:41:02]
can figure out where
people are coming from.
[00:41:04]
Right.
[00:41:04]
To decide if you want to do business with
them, whichever direction that’s going.
[00:41:07]
Exactly.
[00:41:08]
Whether you want to buy
from them or something.
[00:41:10]
All right.
That’s interesting.
[00:41:11]
So you’ve been a business owner
essentially for a few years now.
[00:41:15]
Plus, I guess on top of the consulting
[00:41:17]
work that you’ve done,
what have you learned that you didn’t
[00:41:19]
necessarily know when you
first started a business?
[00:41:24]
Oh, golly, where do you start?
Right at the top.
[00:41:27]
Yeah, you know, there’s.
[00:41:32]
I guess what I what I’ve learned is you’ve
[00:41:35]
got to find a way to put fun into the work
you have to bear.
[00:41:38]
You have to find a way
to make it enjoyable.
[00:41:41]
Sure.
And
[00:41:43]
it’s it’s better if you have if
you can spread the load around.
[00:41:48]
Right.
As opposed to being a one man band.
[00:41:51]
And so I think it makes it a lot easier
to have partners to if there’s similar
[00:42:00]
trust levels and synergies there
that can help you that way.
[00:42:04]
You don’t feel overwhelmed.
Sure.
[00:42:06]
By all that has to be done.
[00:42:07]
I know that when I was had my own
[00:42:09]
business, I felt overwhelmed a lot because
it was everything was riding on me.
[00:42:14]
Right.
[00:42:14]
And I didn’t know
how are we going to get beyond next year.
[00:42:19]
So having others that are that are
in the same crucible, if you will,
[00:42:26]
with you in that business helps
you to encourage each other.
[00:42:30]
Sure.
And so I think that’s probably the biggest
[00:42:32]
takeaway is to try to have a try to make
sure that your partners are of the same
[00:42:40]
constitution, is sure
you have similar goals.
[00:42:43]
I mentioned there’s some
accountability as well.
[00:42:45]
Then, right when you’re on your own,
it’s kind of you motivating yourself.
[00:42:49]
Yeah.
Yeah, there’s I mean I mean, you can
[00:42:53]
you could take that to a lot
of different levels.
[00:42:55]
But
[00:42:57]
we look at the overall company.
Sure.
[00:43:00]
It’s there’s not a lot of.
[00:43:03]
Well, gee, you were going
a little extra hour here.
[00:43:06]
Oh, no, we don’t give any
kind of attention that way.
[00:43:09]
This is more about, you know,
we’re all here to be successful.
[00:43:12]
And the and the leadership
understands that.
[00:43:15]
And we communicate around that without
getting into the minutiae.
[00:43:19]
Yeah, I guess maybe that came out wrong.
[00:43:21]
I didn’t mean to say, you know, you took
a long lunch or something like that.
[00:43:25]
I just mean that, you know,
[00:43:27]
that you could slack in some way, but then
you’re letting everybody else down.
[00:43:31]
Right.
Right.
[00:43:31]
Well, it’s it’s so it’s kind of a higher
[00:43:33]
level than just yourself,
is what it comes down to.
[00:43:36]
I guess that’s what I find anyways.
[00:43:38]
And the partnerships that I’ve been in
[00:43:41]
is for the most part,
I don’t know necessarily my business
[00:43:44]
partners felt the same way,
at least past one.
[00:43:47]
But that’s just a name that’s
just like a relationship.
[00:43:50]
Well, yeah, and that’s exactly what it is.
[00:43:53]
And I admire guys like you that have gone
through different business partnerships,
[00:43:59]
different businesses, because you’ve
got a perspective that is unique.
[00:44:04]
Yeah.
[00:44:04]
And and you see it
from a little bit bigger.
[00:44:09]
Well, they’re expensive lessons,
just like all of them.
[00:44:12]
Right.
[00:44:15]
Education’s expensive.
Right.
[00:44:16]
Whether it’s in a class, whether you’re
sitting behind a chalkboard or not.
[00:44:20]
Yeah, that’s the name of the game.
Yes.
[00:44:23]
So if someone was considering to get
[00:44:24]
into a business on their own,
regardless of what it was,
[00:44:27]
what are some of the bits of advice
that you would consider giving them?
[00:44:34]
I’d say find somebody that you trust
that you can talk to, OK,
[00:44:38]
that can can help you be sure,
but make sure it’s not somebody that’s
[00:44:42]
ultra conservative because there’s this
intrapreneurship that you need to have.
[00:44:46]
But I really want to you really want to do
something that you’re passionate about.
[00:44:51]
You want to align your passion
and your work environment as closely as
[00:44:56]
you can, not everything that you do,
not everything that I do.
[00:45:00]
Am I all that passionate about
what I am passionate about is creating
[00:45:05]
a process and a product
that will help people obtain something
[00:45:10]
that they couldn’t do themselves and to do
it in a way that they felt good about.
[00:45:16]
Right.
[00:45:17]
That you don’t need any
surprises in construction?
[00:45:19]
No, there’s probably enough
whether you want it.
[00:45:22]
And so if you can
be the bus driver and drive the bus while
[00:45:28]
all your clients are the the riders,
then then you should do that and do it.
[00:45:32]
Sure.
But my advice to new folks was, hey,
[00:45:36]
you can you can put you can accomplish
anything you put your mind to,
[00:45:39]
but make sure that you’re passionate about
it and then make sure that you’ve got
[00:45:44]
the necessary expertise to help you
move in that direction.
[00:45:50]
OK, and
[00:45:54]
that’s that’s what I would would say.
Sure.
[00:45:56]
We all have blindsight, you know, so
we just got to figure out what those are
[00:46:01]
and then try to find somebody
that can help us with it.
[00:46:03]
Sure.
That’s fair.
[00:46:04]
I like it.
I like it.
[00:46:05]
Were you able to find a mentor?
[00:46:07]
No, no.
[00:46:09]
This is this is something you learn.
[00:46:12]
This is something I learned.
[00:46:13]
And I think that’s one of the things
for me, James, that’s been missing
[00:46:18]
and I think it’s missing in our industry.
[00:46:20]
Are these mentors that will
are available to come alongside folks.
[00:46:28]
And I admire folks that have had
[00:46:30]
relationships with businessmen
that have taken the time to say to help
[00:46:34]
them get to a level or to guide
them in their process.
[00:46:38]
Right.
[00:46:40]
I don’t know.
[00:46:41]
It’s everybody seems to be generating
and working towards their own deal.
[00:46:46]
It doesn’t seem to be
[00:46:49]
there seems to be a void where
[00:46:51]
there might be some some mentors
that could come alongside.
[00:46:55]
Sure.
I first, as I was when I started out going
[00:46:58]
to college,
got into the engineering program,
[00:47:02]
I had really no business
mentor at that point.
[00:47:05]
And as a result of that,
[00:47:08]
I didn’t get involved with any business
classes or accounting classes.
[00:47:12]
So I came out of school with his
engineering degree and it was around it.
[00:47:16]
All right.
And
[00:47:20]
so as I’m talking to young people that are
[00:47:24]
going to college, my grandson’s going
to the same college that I went to.
[00:47:27]
Yeah, and he’s in computer tech.
[00:47:30]
And it’s like, yeah, you got
to get some accounting programs.
[00:47:34]
You got to get some business.
Yeah.
[00:47:35]
You’ve got to know how to manage money.
[00:47:37]
You’ve got to learn that.
[00:47:39]
And now is the best time to do
[00:47:40]
that because it’s going
to get expensive later.
[00:47:42]
Yeah.
Yeah.
[00:47:44]
I always tell my business planning class
if you’re bad at managing money now,
[00:47:47]
when you start, your business
is just going to be amplified.
[00:47:50]
Oh yeah.
The decimal point just gets moved
[00:47:52]
regardless of which direction
the money’s going.
[00:47:54]
Right.
So so as I got into
[00:47:58]
the business and and before we actually
[00:48:01]
bought into this, I had some
some trusted friends.
[00:48:06]
Sure.
[00:48:06]
That I have been in business a long
time that I reached out to for advice.
[00:48:10]
Yeah.
And the relationships were there and
[00:48:15]
I was able to get some good
advice to help guide the process.
[00:48:18]
Very cool.
So very cool.
[00:48:19]
So you have to you know,
at some point you got to say, hey,
[00:48:22]
no fear, we’re just you’ve got
to be fearless and just go for it.
[00:48:25]
That’s the name of the game.
Yeah.
[00:48:26]
With entrepreneurship, risk is essential.
Yeah.
[00:48:30]
Without it, it’s just a job.
Yeah.
[00:48:32]
Yeah.
[00:48:33]
With all the stability
that that may or may not entail.
[00:48:36]
And I that’s one of the things I
love about the business builders.
[00:48:39]
A network that we’re both involved with is
[00:48:41]
the the, the entrepreneurs
that are around the table.
[00:48:44]
Yeah.
That are saying yeah it was just a game,
[00:48:47]
you know, and here are the rules
and it’s like, you know, OK, I’m
[00:48:52]
getting to that level so that you can say
and recognize it in that internalizing it
[00:48:57]
and taking those things
personally and emotionally.
[00:49:00]
That, that to me is being an entrepreneur.
And then yeah.
[00:49:04]
Then you’re able to say, OK,
[00:49:05]
this is a great deal, but we’re going
to have to do X, Y and Z to get there.
[00:49:08]
Right.
Right.
[00:49:10]
I always I always tell
people play the game right.
[00:49:12]
Because
[00:49:14]
my dad told me when I first got
[00:49:16]
my first speeding ticket,
he’s like, what did you learn?
[00:49:20]
And I knew that he wanted
me to say, not the speed.
[00:49:22]
I told him, don’t get caught.
[00:49:25]
And he’s like,
[00:49:28]
right now, I could just tell,
like, there’s a certain.
[00:49:31]
That you can you just learn
there’s rules for the game, right?
[00:49:34]
Right, so we’re all just
playing the game, right?
[00:49:36]
Sometimes a very complex game.
[00:49:38]
Yes, but.
[00:49:40]
But a tax code?
[00:49:42]
Well,yeah.
[00:49:44]
And so it is a game.
[00:49:46]
And if you understand the rules
[00:49:48]
to the game
and you’ve got the skills to play
[00:49:51]
the game, I think you can do
well and desire and the passion.
[00:49:55]
Right?
[00:49:56]
Yeah, because it’s not
going to come to you.
[00:49:57]
You know, you’ve got to go there.
Right.
[00:50:00]
And it may take some people fall
[00:50:03]
into that early in their life and in their
careers and and they’re able to
[00:50:09]
take that on and reap
the rewards of others.
[00:50:12]
It takes a long time for them to find out
where their
[00:50:15]
gifts are at and to find out how to align
their passions with their gifts.
[00:50:19]
Right.
And then to have the courage to step out
[00:50:23]
of their comfort zone and a little later
point in their life to do that as huge.
[00:50:29]
This huge.
Yeah.
[00:50:30]
And then and to my point is, OK,
[00:50:33]
so were the folks that can help
encourage those to be able to overcome.
[00:50:38]
Sure.
And actually do that and achieve that.
[00:50:41]
Right.
[00:50:41]
And there, you know, we have to be
on our lookout all around us as people.
[00:50:47]
We’ve got people in our
in our network of influence
[00:50:52]
that are at those positions where they’re
thinking about doing something then.
[00:50:56]
And the question I ask myself is, well,
how am I helping them to get to their next
[00:51:00]
question without telling
them you need to do this?
[00:51:05]
That’s just sort of not what’s in here.
[00:51:07]
You have to do this.
Get out of the.
[00:51:11]
I don’t have a job or a boss.
[00:51:12]
That’s the whole reason I
want to be told what to do.
[00:51:14]
Yeah, that’s funny.
[00:51:16]
But this experience.
Right.
[00:51:17]
Like you could do the other way, but
you just saved them some money in time.
[00:51:21]
Yes.
[00:51:22]
It doesn’t hurt,
but they have to be willing to you know,
[00:51:25]
you’ve got to find out where they’re at
and then help them to take the next step.
[00:51:28]
Right.
As a to tell them what to do.
[00:51:30]
Right.
Right.
[00:51:32]
And not everybody, even though you can get
[00:51:34]
to that point, not everybody is
going to take that next step.
[00:51:36]
No, some just dig their heels and say,
[00:51:38]
you know what,
I’m comfortable right where I am.
[00:51:41]
You know, it’s interesting you say that.
[00:51:43]
And I’ll say that’s just a side
tangent here with calls on call.
[00:51:45]
Right.
[00:51:46]
I thought calls on call is going
to be fantastically huge business.
[00:51:49]
No problem, because every
small business has this issue.
[00:51:52]
Right, not answering their phones.
[00:51:54]
And then we we just give you
a quick story here in arborists.
[00:51:58]
Hire us.
Right.
[00:51:59]
It was him and a buddy that just climbing
trees, cutting them down, whatever.
[00:52:03]
And we quadrupled his
business in four months.
[00:52:06]
Quadrupled it.
Wow.
[00:52:07]
And he comes to us and he’s like,
James, I’ve got to quit.
[00:52:10]
I’m like, what are you talking about?
You got to quit.
[00:52:12]
It’s like I can hire for arborists, right?
Not today.
[00:52:15]
And I’d have work for them
for the next month and a half.
[00:52:18]
And my thought was, where’s the problem?
[00:52:21]
And he’s like, I don’t want
to manage too much stress.
[00:52:24]
I want to manage.
I just want to climb trees.
[00:52:27]
And I’m like, what did
you start a business for?
[00:52:30]
You could climb trees and get insurance
[00:52:32]
and guaranteed pay and, you know, biweekly
paychecks, vacation, all that jazz.
[00:52:37]
Now you have all the risk of a business
with no reward, no direct reward.
[00:52:43]
Right.
[00:52:44]
So I found that a lot of business owners
just have what I would consider to be
[00:52:48]
an ego in their business because he’s like
when people call, they want me to show up.
[00:52:53]
Not like, yeah, no,
they want to treat taken care of.
[00:52:56]
They don’t care who takes care of it.
[00:52:58]
But yeah, that ego about them and
he’s good at what he does.
[00:53:01]
Right.
So all the power to him.
[00:53:04]
But I found that there are arguably
the majority of entrepreneurs that are
[00:53:08]
in that baby stage right where it’s a van
and a hammer, a van and a saw, whatever.
[00:53:14]
They’re happy there.
Yeah.
[00:53:16]
So I’m like, who am I to say
that they shouldn’t do that?
[00:53:19]
And the flip side, I’m like,
what’s the point?
[00:53:21]
It’s grow or die.
Yeah.
[00:53:23]
Yeah, it’s.
[00:53:24]
But then if they don’t want to take your
advice, you just be their friend, you know.
[00:53:29]
Yeah.
Yeah.
[00:53:29]
And there will be somebody
that will take it.
[00:53:33]
And I think maybe teachers get
excited about this because they,
[00:53:37]
they guide the students early
on and through high school and then they
[00:53:41]
encourage them to take these kinds
of risks and do these things.
[00:53:43]
And then five years later, they see
the the kids have actually done that.
[00:53:46]
Right.
[00:53:47]
And it goes back and it’s a huge
thing for them to continue to do that.
[00:53:52]
And like with us, we don’t have that much
[00:53:55]
influence or that many people
that we influence on a daily basis.
[00:53:59]
But they’re out there.
Yeah.
[00:54:00]
And it’s exciting to me to see people take
that that next step and to achieve those
[00:54:06]
goals, every interaction just do what
you can, right. It’s interesting.
[00:54:11]
Gary, I appreciate you being on the show.
Time flies, doesn’t it?
[00:54:14]
Yeah, this is amazing.
It goes crazy fast.
[00:54:17]
This has been Authentic Business
Adventures,
[00:54:19]
the business program that brings you
the struggle
[00:54:21]
stories and triumphs and successes
for business owners across the land.
[00:54:26]
I meant to ask you one more question.
I’m going to do it fast.
[00:54:28]
You mentioned some books at the softball.
[00:54:31]
coach suggested you, I get the impression
[00:54:33]
that you’re a reader, I’m I haven’t
spent as much time reading as I like to.
[00:54:38]
I really do enjoy it.
[00:54:40]
And I don’t have the titles of those
[00:54:41]
books, but I’m sure I’ll get them
to you so you can share them.
[00:54:44]
Do you have a favorite that you read?
[00:54:47]
One of my favorites that I’ve read
is the The Ant and the Elephant.
[00:54:52]
The Ant and the Elephant.
[00:54:54]
OK, and it’s a it’s a book about
the capacity that we have in our intellect
[00:54:59]
and in how we can put
to put that to work for us.
[00:55:05]
Sure.
And the the ant is our consciousness
[00:55:09]
and the elephant is our
subconsciousness. Really.
[00:55:12]
And so the question is,
[00:55:13]
how do you take your consciousness
and help it to drive your subconscious
[00:55:19]
mind and what influence
and effect does it have?
[00:55:22]
And there’s scientific evidence out there
that demonstrates that there is an effect.
[00:55:28]
The question that I have personally is
[00:55:32]
the motivation behind that and how
should motivate that?
[00:55:35]
And what I this has been going on for
[00:55:38]
oh golly, I was first exposed to this
and the Pepper Construction Company
[00:55:43]
in nineteen must have been 1984.
[00:55:48]
Oh wow.
It’s been a while.
[00:55:50]
Yeah.
And, but, and the Olympic Olympic
[00:55:54]
downhillers used the technique
to strengthen their performance.
[00:55:59]
Really.
Yeah.
[00:56:00]
So it’s pretty fascinating stuff.
It’s pretty cool.
[00:56:02]
I’ll get you the title of the book.
All right.
[00:56:04]
I appreciate that.
That’s awesome.
[00:56:06]
Well, we’ve been coming to you
from the empty offices of Calls on Call as
[00:56:11]
our associates, our employees are all
working from home, I’m told comfortably.
[00:56:16]
But I know we just pay
for an empty office here.
[00:56:18]
What are you going to do?
Oh, we are coming to you remotely ish
[00:56:24]
by the Sun Prairie community studios
underwritten by Bank of Sun Prairie.
[00:56:28]
If you’re listening to this on the web,
please, like, subscribe, comment, and share.
[00:56:33]
Authentic Business Adventures is brought
[00:56:35]
to you by Calls On Call offering,
answering and receptionist services for small
[00:56:39]
businesses across the country on the Web
that callsoncall.com. As well as Draw
[00:56:44]
In Customers Business Coaching,
offering business coaching services
[00:56:47]
for entrepreneurs in all stages
of their business on the Web
[00:56:50]
at Drawincustomers.com
[00:56:52]
And of course, The Bold Business Book,
a book for the entrepreneur in all of us
[00:56:56]
available on Amazon and wherever
fine books are sold.
[00:57:00]
We’d like to thank you our wonderful
listeners as well as our guest,
[00:57:02]
Gary Tree, vice president
of Advanced Building Corporation.
[00:57:06]
Gary, thanks so much
for being on the show.
[00:57:07]
Thanks, James, for having me.
[00:57:08]
This has been a very
enjoyable conversation.
[00:57:11]
It went fast, didn’t it?
It sure did, yeah.
[00:57:14]
Find us airing at 103.5
Wednesdays at 1:00 p.m.,
[00:57:17]
Sundays at 2:00 pm, as well as
that SunPrairieMediaCenter.com.
[00:57:20]
Past episodes can be found morning,
noon and night in the podcast
[00:57:24]
iink at DrawInCustomers.com.
[00:57:25]
Holy cow, it’s a lot to say.
Thank you for listening.
[00:57:28]
We will see you next week.
I want you to stay awesome.
[00:57:30]
And if you do nothing else,
enjoy your business.
