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John Vuong – Local SEO Search
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You have found Authentic Business Adventures
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the business program that brings you the struggle stories and triumphant successes
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of business owners across the land.
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We are underwritten locally by the Bank of Sun Prairie.
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My name is James Kademan, entrepreneur,
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author, speaker, and helpful coach to small
business owners across the country.
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And today we are welcoming/preparing
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to learn from John Vuong the founder
of Local SEO Search. John,
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how are you doing today?
I’m doing great James.
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I’m excited to be on the show today
and really excited to get share some
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stories and insights to you and your
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audience members. Yeah. You know, I’m excited because
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SEO, search engine optimization, is a challenging thing for any business
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I mean with the name
of your website alone.
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I think you
probably hit high on the ranks right there.
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Yeah, so key words are very important.
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But, branding yourself as someone
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that actually knows what they’re
doing is more important.
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So we just position yourself as a leader
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in the industry. So let’s start with when
you first got started.
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How long have you been
doing this on your own?
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I so I started this agency 8
years ago. 8 years ago already? 2013, yes.
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Alright. And prior to that, I actually was doing advertising sales
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and I dabbled in traditional advertising,
print media, magazines, directories and I
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was dabbling in to online affiliate
performance-based,
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but then I stayed at a very stable size
larger company called Yellow Pages.
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Oh, I remember those. I was there for five years also doing
advertising sales and found where I wanted
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to continue and pursue
my business career and life.
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And what made you decide
to jump ship from sales?
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What’s a universally Yellow Pages jumping
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ship from the Yellow Pages specifically I
can understand why but sales universally
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you can make some decent money as
a salesperson. Yes you can definitely, but I also found where I
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really wanted to pursue
my passions as well.
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I gravitated toward working with only
business owners over the years.
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I work with thousands of business owners
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and usually local in scope anything in the
Yellow Pages directory and every single vertical
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I was able to meet these business owners
on a personal level and I got to really
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understand what their troubles were
their struggles and their stories.
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I like why did they pursue their dreams
and they really focused more on community
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relationships and understand
the foundation of the how to run a proper
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business and people forget about
that in this digital world, right?
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They forget about the service, the relationship
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piece the understanding of pricing, competitive analysis, UPS,
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like all these things that really matter
and it took not just years and maybe 5 or
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10 years, but sometimes it took
generations to harvest a really successful
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business. So, people need to understand what it
takes to be a business owner, entrepreneur,
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community leader, and now, you know
now that I’ve been doing it for 8 years,
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I reflect on what my challenges were
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when I first started and it was a lot of
struggle, a lot of pain, a lot of time
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in and not really focus on my strength
right and now I’ve got a grown over
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the years to get better to harvest
my strengths and really amplify my message.
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So what made you decide to actually go off
on your own was it because you saw what
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all these other business
owners were doing.
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And you decided.
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Hey man, I want to I want to ride
the rides they’re riding kind of thing.
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Well, me being a sales rep, I was listening and hearing
from Frontline their pin points.
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And as you know the phone book itself
with no longer getting a decent return
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on investment people are spending a lot
of money not getting the type
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of lead count or source
and quality that they once did.
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Because as you know, internet, Google kind of started
becoming the focal point.
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Because I don’t know if people the younger
Generations specifically understand
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that the internet internet
sorry didn’t always exist.
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Like it’s just mid-90s onward
and it’s been evolving ever since.
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Yeah, so it’s interesting even to think eight
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years ago YouTube was available,
but it wasn’t what it is now
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as far as search goes and social media
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was a thing, but it wasn’t
this much of a thing.
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Yes, so it’s evolves.
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So it’s interesting to see I
guess just point it out, right?
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Yeah definitely because as you know,
like Google how to replace what
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Yellow Pages did very well which wire is
ready to buy seeking out information or
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services or products like you
were category in the phone book.
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When what somewhat was ready to buy they
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picked up the phone book delivery once
a year free to your home now,
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it’s Google on your smartphone device
tablet desktop and laptop in its stool.
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Really SS book does internet prices
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of body has picked up with all these
energy that are just happening.
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You’re as it progresses
technology advances.
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Now, it’s becoming be going out a Iran
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green and things are automated.
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However, people still
want to be in control.
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They want to know and seek out information
themselves and they don’t want to get
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pushed and there’s a difference
between Yellow Pages vs.
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Google and social media vs.
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Advertising in traditional media like
magazines Brokers newspaper pliers.
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Now, it’s all digital format Wright radio
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was podcast TV was now YouTube,
you know, it’s all the same.
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More analytical tools that can monitor
in track and custom Behavior Target Target
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every ad out there, but they forget still
takes a business person a solid foundation
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of running a business to be successful
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this owner frustrated and Google was it
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sold Beats, right there’s ads and there’s
organic very similar to Yellow Pages.
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The white pages is more Brandon keywords,
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and I didn’t really know
how to do it myself.
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So I went and focus on my strengths
that begin which was sales.
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I went out there so long until I was able
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to then hire team and learn
and make a lot of mistakes and.
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Hire more people fired all our
people made more mistakes.
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I figure out who I really wanted to be
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known as and who I really wanted to Target
at the ideal cuz you said the word was
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for Google and I’m like
that’s that’s an ass man.
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That’s still a beast.
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That is tough to understand.
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Sometimes I say I say always Foundation
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understand the basics of running a good
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business and everything
will take care of itself.
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Picture of love to believe that would love
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to the team that you have now how many
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employees do you have 30 30 employees
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and there was formed because
of the gaps and we specialize in SQ.
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So for us it’s more the pillars,
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there’s content dragon’s tooth
on the graphic design Thursday the link
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Builders there so many different paper
focus on being a boutique agency that did
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everything regarding to ask you
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and not touching at North America.
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There’s some in UK and Australia.
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How do people find you.
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Yeah, so for us it’s just doing good work
wear tomorrow and doing this stuff
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which is helping branding myself and just
educating people write the more you’re out
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there giving advice and helping others
either like you or not and just like any
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form of branding podcasting youtubing book
publishing a blogging website article
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writing the show me different
ways to amplify your message.
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The whole thing is consistency and doing
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good work because social
proof is everything indeed.
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That’s fair.
So just walk us through how you went
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from in 2008 starting you’re on your own
you’re selling but you haven’t necessarily
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figured yeseo thing out now 8 years later,
you got 30 employees.
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That’s an eight years.
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That’s what I would consider to be
pretty strong girl with in the SEC.
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Again, I’m always learning.
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I’m always trying to figure out what I’m
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good and not good at and so
I’m always evolving right?
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There’s always offered.
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And you got to play with your strength.
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So my strength was always sales and who I
want the out there and sold then I hired
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people and I also try to figure out myself
and I realized really quickly that I’m not
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going to be as good as someone
that has been doing SEO by 10 years.
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If I’m just starting I
could read all I want.
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I can watch all I want I could block you
in just as much content and information
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and knowledge skills that but I
wouldn’t be them right.
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So I started hiring I made a lot
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of mistakes at beginning I hired
for the wrong reason now,
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I hired for more personality
and core values than just skill set.
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Joshua so initially you were
hiring for skill-set here.
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It’s more about understanding who you want
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to be known as you need people to surround
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yourself with that are
in the lineman with your values.
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Right and if they’re consistent,
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they know what you believe
in and they are big Advocates.
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You’re a lot healthier last rest
and you actually enjoy your team or.
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Yeah, there’s it’s interesting how culture
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of a business can change
with one bad hire.
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But even if a tire is a smart person they
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have the skills and talent
text to get the job done.
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But as their personality doesn’t match.
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Oh my gosh, man, that train
is coming off the tracks.
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I’d learned that as well as you pay
the do the job everyone’s happy.
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It’s all good, but it
does not work that way.
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I’m always a big advocate of hiring slow
and firing fast and take your time
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that them properly just like how
a client would bet you a Pity customer.
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You should do the same thing
for everything every Supply every vendor
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every, you know,
anything that you’re doing even
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the clients that them as much as I bet you
to make sure that there are no goals are
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in line stations are there and you
actually want to help them or not.
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Let me ask you about that specifically in
regards to being slow and wedding them.
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How much are how do you vent
a potential hire cuz it in my world.
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That’s a challenging deal.
Right?
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There’s no a try as for a month and see
if I’m a cool employee kind of thing.
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So I guess just run me through the steps
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that you take care of and trying
to find a good employee.
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Yeah, so typically is internal we ask
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to see if anyone knows of good people good
job postings in personality test along
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the line and screen right
and we let go for a man.
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I would say so we kind of know what skill
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set is required to our Gap is when we hit
80% capacity which are hiring right
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and then we understand that to maintain
this whole system and process.
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We got to continue that so for me,
it’s all about the system of it is making
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sure that they scream properly so HR or
someone before it gets to me to do
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the final wedding and they’ve already gone
through probably like dozens or hundreds
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of other applicants and falling
and interviewed them and everything else.
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So they gave me like the best of the best
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before they even get to my level and then
I either prove and say, you know ask him.
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Did you hire them if this was your
company and this their money, right?
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Cuz that’s always the final gotcha read.
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If it is, then you go with it because
employees I have been very loyal to me
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and they know me right so that we’ve
always cultivated like a family culture
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and once you do that they kind of know
who I am and who I want to associate
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with and her little bit that mold then why
would you bring that person along
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the course of this whole organization
Circle back to what you talked about
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before about the 80% capacity
with the calling answering service that I
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own we keep track 2 Data
like that all the time.
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So necio field.
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How do you figure out
what 80% capacity is?
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How do you measure that?
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Yeah still over the years it’s hard
right because it’s all predictability.
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It’s all about like.
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For us we we time 1-year
contracts to give them toys.
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No, no clients on a cycle annual
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and with that in mind we can predict if we
start getting a lot more growth in a year.
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We can predict revenue for the next year
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in band with Ryan fasting issues
with all the planning projections.
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But if you’re able to project
on a on a SAS model or any kind
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of recurring business my roommate is
but then you have a real business, right?
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That’s cuz it’s all about predictability.
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If you can’t predict in you’re going after
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new clients all day long everyday,
it’s stressful and not only that you’ll
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cut your your staff are loyal either
because they don’t know when their next
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paycheck is going to be and if they’re
going to be around next year or not.
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Interesting. So are you tell me what your
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measuring then in regards to is
a productivity or is it X number
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of clients per employee or how are you
measuring that? Yeah,
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so over the years it’s changed from being
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with typically, we kind of track a lot
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of measures and productivity because we
kind of converge act each task how long it
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takes and how many types of giving
on daily basis how many emergency tasks or
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not? How many clients can a project time?
That’s how we account for staff right?
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It’s how much time do they have
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in bandwidth how much capacity are they
at? And are they close to over burning
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themselves dressing themselves and just
being honest with people cuz they will
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tell you if they feel like we
need to hire more people or.
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And that’s the biggest gotcha when you
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filled a culture where people are very
honest with you saying look we can take
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on x amount more clients,
or I’m feeling very stressed right now.
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Can we start hiring for rebuilt
that trust with your client your staff?.
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Interesting.
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I want to ask you what let’s just compare
different employees cuz there’s going
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to be some employees that can just
roll with whatever you throw at them.
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There’s going to be other employees
that just naturally feel like it’s
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on the verge of too much
work for any set of tasks.
[00:18:07]
So how do you figure out the average
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that’s comfortable of a challenging
so to speak for each employee.
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However, you need to encourage
everyone as well.
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So we do a lot of internal training we try
to figure out like are they good fit
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and where do they see themselves in 5
years 3 years and trying to challenge
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everyone to get better level
up in every aspect of life.
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Not just at work right still for us.
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It’s more trying to get different
perspectives be realistic and then either
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questionable are at all or
just being honest because.
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For us it’s like monthly calls weekly
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calls and everyone’s
on the call in that department.
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If they advise me.
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Look we’re stretched or last week was
[00:18:59]
unproductive because we had an emergency
situation is it it’s fine, right?
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Cuz it’s the one off but if it’s happening
on a regular basis, you can see that it’s
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going to have a huge impact
on your process rain.
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So it’s just understanding that whole
rhythm of expectations and client Morello
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and staff around and everything
else interesting.
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So are your people or where your people
in an office on the same office or are
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they all over the remote
agency remotely again?
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I was livid.
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I was working remote at Yellow Pages.
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We very moved away from the office
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environments at my home
base, and I was more.
[00:19:48]
Ebay account manager I had a book
[00:19:51]
of business and I was trying
to figure out the best system, right?
[00:19:57]
And yes, I have CRPS and they
have all this stuff book for us.
[00:20:01]
It was more of a boat like trying
to make sure you’re organized.
[00:20:05]
So I was able to organize
myself or the years.
[00:20:12]
So I’m a big Rafters guy two years ago.
[00:20:20]
We won the championship
ticket holder for 15 years.
[00:20:26]
Wow, really matters and I love basketball.
[00:20:29]
And so two years ago.
[00:20:31]
It was it right?
[00:20:34]
We had a chance.
[00:20:35]
I was there every game I was there season
playoffs enjoying the parade just threw up
[00:20:43]
again a championship for any sport is
an accomplished and you don’t know if
[00:20:49]
you’re going to embrace it or
have it in your lifetime read me.
[00:20:53]
It was like just living it.
[00:20:55]
No worries.
[00:20:58]
I see here when I want
to ask you a 2% capacity.
[00:21:05]
I got to think where I was at.
[00:21:07]
We’re just talking about
basketball Toronto Raptors.
[00:21:15]
So they won the championship
in 2022 years ago.
[00:21:19]
That’s cool.
[00:21:23]
And so that picture I noticed drop
[00:21:31]
that won game 7 made us play
[00:21:43]
against Milwaukee afterwards.
[00:21:45]
So we beat you guys in game 6.
[00:21:51]
I said that so you you’re talking
[00:22:05]
about remote on your people remote.
[00:22:08]
Yes, so tell me about remote hiring
and it’s a system in process,
[00:22:17]
right and right will that matter so as
much as you same thing you scream they
[00:22:24]
fill out application resume pulling
through personality test back call
[00:22:29]
references the same thing as you would do
through a recruiter trying to put a job
[00:22:34]
board, but you need to ensure that they
have everything in order at home.
[00:22:40]
So they have a stable internet connection
[00:22:43]
good, you know computer laptop,
whatever technology microphone headphone
[00:22:48]
Whatever video cam whatever
you need for your.
[00:22:51]
Business right one that is already.
[00:22:54]
Then you test them to ensure that up
and working running properly before you do
[00:23:00]
more of a hireright
and maybe do a probationer.
[00:23:03]
Give them a month to month sweater
probation to test them out.
[00:23:07]
So it’s just like any company like I
[00:23:11]
worked at I would say dozens of companies
before I landed Yellow Pages.
[00:23:15]
It was all about like understanding of his
[00:23:18]
that employees going to be a good fit or
not managers have to go through the same
[00:23:24]
vetting process and as a business owner is
probably even more so because it’s your
[00:23:30]
money right to ensure that they’re going
to fill Gap that you have to deliver on,
[00:23:38]
you know, you were standing
and no one’s perfect.
[00:23:44]
No as long as they are willing to give it.
[00:23:48]
All right, and they’re going to try.
[00:23:52]
So are you are you supplying equipment or
[00:23:56]
you’re expecting them to have the computer
camera had said all that jazz again.
[00:24:02]
It’s in the job description of what
is necessary before you apply.
[00:24:07]
Okay.
Alright.
[00:24:08]
Alright, you make sure that everything
[00:24:13]
that you need either have
experienced or they have it.
[00:24:16]
Okay, then they’re accountable to take
[00:24:27]
care of the West again if they’ve been
[00:24:31]
loyal and they’ve been a good employee
then you might you don’t mind getting it
[00:24:35]
to him if there’s more
productive with an interesting.
[00:24:41]
How do you guys communicate internally
since you’re not in an office?.
[00:24:46]
Yeah, so we have a lot
of software instant messaging.
[00:24:50]
We call all the time collaborate through
a lot of these kind of meetings.
[00:24:56]
We have a lot of tools right
with technology comes a lot more out
[00:25:03]
there, but I think the big thing is
making sure everyone’s on board.
[00:25:09]
And doing it and engage with it.
[00:25:13]
So we use Asana we use
in a lot of instant messaging.
[00:25:17]
We have a lot of Dropbox and Google Drive
and you know all the stuff right?
[00:25:21]
It’s just making sure everyone understands
how to do it and on-board which is
[00:25:28]
actively doing on a regular consistent
basis and no one’s bottlenecking.
[00:25:34]
Alright, so you’ve 30 employees.
[00:25:37]
You got a lot going on personally,
imagine family business all that stuff.
[00:25:41]
How do you keep track of any employee is
kind of falling off the rails little bit
[00:25:46]
or slowing down or or even
doing a really good job.
[00:25:50]
How do you keep track of what
your place have going on?
[00:25:53]
I not me I have managers to do
this operation manager manager.
[00:25:59]
Every pillar has a manager earn the right
to kind of do last of the doing work
[00:26:06]
manage the people just like
any higher key, right?
[00:26:12]
You trust them.
They earn your trust.
[00:26:21]
Hire people right off
the bat to be managers.
[00:26:24]
I wanted them to learn what needed to be
done to then hire and promote within
[00:26:30]
a different skill-set together underway
versus hiring from an outside interesting.
[00:26:39]
How do you know the people have
the skills when it comes to FCO?
[00:26:43]
That’s somewhat of a science and art I
[00:26:46]
imagine so when somebody comes to you
and says, hey, I’m super awesome at SEO.
[00:26:50]
How do you know the same thing?
[00:26:52]
Right and we can get
everything give them examples.
[00:26:59]
What would you do in this scenario work
with so many different campaigns based
[00:27:07]
on our team and their experience
and what has six faces.
[00:27:11]
What was the type of in a road map
for Gratiot and if people are thinking
[00:27:18]
outside the outside
the boss be more creative.
[00:27:21]
Having a solid foundation then
infant very creative as well.
[00:27:26]
Right like I would try this if it didn’t
work, I would try this and then I was just
[00:27:31]
a different mindset all
together and it’s okay.
[00:27:35]
You’re going to make
mistakes to totally totally.
[00:27:38]
Yeah.
[00:27:38]
It’s just I’m interested
in SEO just as business owner.
[00:27:43]
You have to be I’m also a little jaded
because I’ve paid more than a few people
[00:27:47]
to help with SEO and more
than a few times.
[00:27:50]
I would call it less than successful.
[00:27:53]
But I didn’t I didn’t know right what I
was using as a vetting process was
[00:27:59]
essentially if I type in SEO Madison
for example, and they show up.
[00:28:05]
I figured well,
they must be doing something.
[00:28:07]
All right with their own composition
the same thing batting process.
[00:28:12]
Why would they any customer Choose You did
[00:28:15]
you check out the case studies
testimonials reputation.
[00:28:19]
Did you bet them?
Did you do it three other competitors?
[00:28:22]
What is the skillset pricing?
[00:28:25]
What is the accountability?
[00:28:28]
What’s the Benchmark?
[00:28:29]
What are you you’re kpi is right.
[00:28:31]
What is the deliverables
and what your expectations are?
[00:28:35]
What does success mean to you?
Understand?
[00:28:38]
All these need to be answered before going
with someone because there’s a lot
[00:28:44]
of sales people there A lot of people are
just for the quick dollar there is
[00:28:51]
legitimate business owners or yours or any
company that really want to help you grow.
[00:28:57]
You’ll find out who they are.
[00:29:00]
It may take a little bit longer but.
[00:29:03]
It’s a gold mine when you partner
[00:29:05]
with the right kind of business or agency
or that’s in it for the right reasons,
[00:29:12]
cuz I don’t think that they necessarily
intentionally did less than great.
[00:29:20]
I think it’s just it’s
a challenging field.
[00:29:23]
I’m so in my experience
just about all marketing.
[00:29:28]
There’s no if you spend this,
then you will achieve this be kind
[00:29:34]
of learn after the fact if
you spend this might work.
[00:29:37]
Am I not so marketing
is a black box, right?
[00:29:43]
So predictable anyone would
pay to get guarantee results.
[00:29:48]
That’s why Google is out there Facebook is
making millions and billions of dollars
[00:29:54]
daily because people don’t
know there’s so many unknown.
[00:29:57]
Oh, yeah, they’re selling a lot of Hope
homeless advertising on radio television
[00:30:03]
product placement Instagram
influencer marketing email marketing.
[00:30:06]
Everything is advertising.
[00:30:09]
However, you have to realize Yourself
by trying different things what works what
[00:30:14]
doesn’t be realistic when people are
saying thing and use your own judgment
[00:30:19]
to see what really you
want out of this campaign.
[00:30:23]
You want to ultimately work
with what are your real expectation?
[00:30:28]
Right like I told myself before I reach
out to find Clarity on what I want.
[00:30:35]
All right, so when you go down that road
[00:30:38]
and I’m going to I’m going to prove
you a little bit cuz your SEO guy.
[00:30:42]
So generally speaking when I talk
to clients of mine or other people you
[00:30:48]
when marketers reach out to me
and say what do you want in the end?
[00:30:51]
We want more sales so that we can
end up earning more money systems.
[00:30:57]
We going to get larger so we can have
better systems as we get better systems.
[00:31:01]
It’s more lucrative business.
[00:31:02]
That’s the endgame, right?.
[00:31:05]
Yahoo, is it safe to say some clients are
[00:31:10]
more particular help me with that cuz
that’s the right type of client.
[00:31:18]
It’s the right type of sale.
[00:31:20]
Okay, ideal Persona Avatar of 10 best
[00:31:30]
people that you love working with her
personality trait of who they are exactly
[00:31:36]
what they like doing how they
shop who they hang out with.
[00:31:40]
What communities do they what do
they absorb in terms of content?
[00:31:44]
Once you figure out that goes 10 profile
them and then put your website and all
[00:31:52]
your marketing efforts
to speak to those 10.
[00:31:55]
Client.
[00:31:56]
All right is called real marketing
and creating a Persona Avatar.
[00:32:01]
That’s going to generate you.
[00:32:02]
I do customers in valley of quality.
[00:32:06]
That’s hiring Li convertible position
[00:32:09]
yourself as a leader to go
after the right type of people.
[00:32:13]
You only want to work with.
[00:32:14]
All right.
[00:32:15]
All right, so it’s not so
brought us a more sales.
[00:32:18]
It’s moving a little bit more specific
[00:32:20]
seen more sales with these types
of people that are my ideal client.
[00:32:25]
Again, it all depends
on the type of business.
[00:32:29]
If you’re very high ticket
items service versus a product.
[00:32:37]
Do you mind if I just borrow you for will
[00:32:43]
use two case studies that I should be
there pretty different one calls and calls
[00:32:48]
essentially phone answering
for small businesses.
[00:32:52]
And the other one is easier
to windows.com, which is a product.
[00:32:56]
Fairley High ticket but it’s
a one-time thing or b2c.
[00:33:00]
So I mentioned you would go about two
[00:33:03]
different ways which was a two different
customers that you’re going after.
[00:33:09]
Okay, just walk me through.
[00:33:12]
Let’s just go down the calls on call
Road and we’ll just use the guinea pig.
[00:33:17]
I know your ideal business code
and their ideal customers, right?
[00:33:24]
Is there a niche that you
want to go after?
[00:33:27]
Is there a revenue threshold is there
an employee count is a region that you
[00:33:33]
want to go out at those questions
and create a website in any marketing
[00:33:39]
behavioral to understand the questions
that they have the problems.
[00:33:44]
I hate you have a right good content
creative whatever produced good
[00:33:49]
information online to attract
and cultivate that goes I believe Facebook
[00:33:58]
you can do Google ads but with SEO its
position yourself as a leader expert
[00:34:03]
by creating Goodwell research information
amplify with liens and Community build.
[00:34:09]
Start speaking writing a book and all
[00:34:12]
that stuff positions you as
a leader in that topic niche.
[00:34:17]
So once you start doing that,
[00:34:18]
you’re going to cultivate inbound lead
of quality of your ideal customer that is
[00:34:23]
higher lifetime value customer higher
probability and less dress photos.
[00:34:30]
Worst case scenario type client onboarding
[00:34:41]
intake like what’s
the system process in place?
[00:34:45]
So that’s the type of ok and b2c is very
[00:34:55]
similar, but the high ticket item
[00:34:57]
understand your competitors
and where are they advertising?
[00:35:01]
What are they doing right now?
[00:35:03]
So I figure out how you
going to be unique.
[00:35:07]
What’s your Competitive Edge Persona like
this challenge with product as you don’t
[00:35:13]
really get to know your
clients the same way as a B2B.
[00:35:16]
Customer that you’re talking
to them on a regular basis.
[00:35:20]
Is that one time ticket?
[00:35:23]
They’re going to buy it and forget you.
[00:35:26]
I want to say hopefully but that’s only
[00:35:30]
because we don’t want
them to have problems.
[00:35:32]
Yes, cuz like we’re selling Windows so
it’s not something like oh,
[00:35:35]
I have good Windows right you hope you
have a maintenance program may be right
[00:35:41]
like Insurance the whole
premise of that one time.
[00:35:47]
When do purchase is they either go
[00:35:50]
referral or you could try a service
whatever and they use you and that’s it.
[00:35:55]
Hopefully, nope.
No problems.
[00:35:57]
No issues.
[00:35:58]
And how do you build
a recurring business model?
[00:36:02]
I’ll do that because you’re always
[00:36:04]
constantly looking for new customers right
relationships with builders
[00:36:09]
and contractors renovation guys,
or you have some sort of philia program,
[00:36:13]
but there’s different business models
alongside their the Whitby to see
[00:36:18]
the whole true premise is
what makes you unique.
[00:36:21]
Why did they choose you? Is it the brands
of service the price? I don’t know.
[00:36:26]
Write years in and figure that out to set
yourself apart and then put
[00:36:32]
that in writing with social
proof everything socialproof.
[00:36:35]
Not what you say, but what
other people say about you.
[00:36:38]
Alright, so let me go down that road
[00:36:40]
because I wrote a few books and giving
away books in an attempt to get reviews
[00:36:47]
asking for people on the verge of begging
in the streets on my knees for reviews.
[00:36:53]
It is tough unless you really pissed
[00:36:55]
someone off that is super easy
to get a review not a good one.
[00:37:00]
But just getting people to give a positive
review it takes 10 seconds or whatever
[00:37:05]
but it is tough getting people
to leave reviews at least in my world.
[00:37:10]
Again, you need hundreds
of clients to get 10 reviews.
[00:37:17]
So you have to go above and beyond
[00:37:23]
expectations to get a review but it takes
one negative review, which is just one day
[00:37:30]
like you had one bad day or dropping
service or whatever we all we have
[00:37:37]
somebody that we’ve never met before
but a one-star review and that’s when I
[00:37:42]
started paying attention like all I
guess we have to do something with this.
[00:37:45]
I mean know this guy.
[00:37:47]
So wasn’t the world doesn’t know that I
[00:37:49]
don’t know that guy but it’s out there
and public domain information as a barrier
[00:37:56]
to entry or the barrier to creating
a review is negligible.
[00:38:00]
So there’s a lot of bad people there
[00:38:04]
and there’s an offer for me best practice
[00:38:15]
is always over-deliver
on everything you do it right?
[00:38:19]
Like everything you do is give give give
hopefully they see value in what you’re
[00:38:25]
offering and we’re going to do it because
the only they used to superseded their
[00:38:30]
expectations, but they
want to help you girl.
[00:38:34]
So they read other people to read
their personal experience.
[00:38:38]
So, how can you make it so easy
for them to write a review?.
[00:38:43]
What does that mean go above and beyond
service go above and beyond cleaning up or
[00:38:49]
whatever like give more
than that actual product.
[00:38:54]
People will not just remember the product
but they will remember the experience.
[00:39:00]
So what are you doing after the whole
[00:39:04]
deployment of the window that will make
them remember you as the window guy?.
[00:39:12]
Fair this whole Affair is challenging man.
[00:39:15]
Oh, holy cow, but it is challenging right?
[00:39:25]
I would agree with that
the whole review thing.
[00:39:27]
It’s kind of it’s one of those things
is just a frustrating necessity.
[00:39:32]
Right?
[00:39:33]
Cuz I think of it one people will trust
reviews from people that they’ve never met
[00:39:38]
before may not even exist and maybe Bots
more than they’ll trust their neighbor cuz
[00:39:42]
their neighbors essentially one review
and when they look on something else
[00:39:46]
there’s 50 reviews or 500
views or something like that.
[00:39:49]
I’m going to trust that star rating.
[00:39:52]
People that have never met before
and that’s just came about like 10-15
[00:39:58]
years ago that wasn’t really a thing
and the internet evolve and now it’s
[00:40:02]
definitely a thing
and sauces business owners.
[00:40:05]
Now, we have to adapt we say, okay, we
got a deal with the review thing overall.
[00:40:10]
I would say it’s good.
[00:40:12]
It’s in it’s an easy way to vet businesses
[00:40:16]
which people needed a way
to vet them to build trust.
[00:40:19]
I don’t know how people get it before we
didn’t at any rate it has to deal
[00:40:25]
with these and so now we’re like,
okay we got to ask for reviews without
[00:40:29]
being annoying or at least
minimizing the annoying part.
[00:40:33]
But it’s still that you’re simply asking
someone to take time out of their day.
[00:40:37]
Even if it is 20 seconds.
[00:40:39]
What is a challenge so there’s no right
[00:40:43]
answer for how to ask her
how to constantly ask.
[00:40:47]
I think it’s a process, right?
[00:40:50]
Okay, when you have customer service
calls, when you give them when it’s
[00:40:55]
complete and then follow up in whatever
it’s always the process of reminding them.
[00:41:00]
All it is is implementing a process
in while working at Yellow Pages.
[00:41:05]
There was no nothing like that.
[00:41:10]
It was word-of-mouth referrals.
Yeah.
[00:41:12]
They had a whole stack of references
reference letters was a big thing.
[00:41:19]
Really think about that if you think
about people ask her friends and family.
[00:41:25]
Yes, you get a referral or not.
[00:41:27]
But reference letters played the same
thing as a third-party reviews and all
[00:41:31]
the client had a stack of great
reference letters big did exist.
[00:41:38]
It’s just how is it now portrayed
[00:41:41]
digitally and still V online,
especially High ticket items.
[00:41:46]
They wanted to see what other people have
[00:41:48]
done their experience the pain points
and how you over delivered right?
[00:41:53]
Interesting isn’t interesting
game that I’ve learned.
[00:42:00]
I want to say that I’ve learned a fully
[00:42:03]
completely but I have learned a lot just
in publishing the book having a business
[00:42:08]
working with our clients that calls
on call to get them reviews because
[00:42:13]
in the end their success is our success we
want to build up them and even as
[00:42:18]
challenging as it’s like it’s
like it’s like bad employees.
[00:42:23]
Every employer has had to deal with bad
[00:42:26]
employees at one time in their in their
business career and every business is
[00:42:32]
going to or has dealt with bad reviews
at one time or even even if you’re not
[00:42:37]
better views just struggling to get
reviews interesting conundrum will call it
[00:42:43]
a lot of things for a lot of businesses,
like maybe even five years ago.
[00:42:52]
I knew how important Google my business
[00:42:54]
reviews were so I actually printed
and created post guards with steps.
[00:43:00]
Give to every single client with batches
[00:43:02]
of hundreds of them mailed it out giving
it right cuz I want to overdo liverite.
[00:43:08]
So give it out to your clients.
[00:43:11]
Here’s a step-by-step and maybe out
[00:43:14]
of the hundred one or two reviews came out
of it was that I don’t know but for me,
[00:43:19]
I showed like I was proactive to help
my my hands to do something about it
[00:43:25]
and maybe they will then take it
on to the next level or sure and the value
[00:43:31]
that I’m trying to portray to them because
we are delivering right opportunities,
[00:43:39]
you know, what the value
based on your behavior?
[00:43:41]
If you are above your competitors
[00:43:49]
already winning Yahweh.
[00:43:53]
Yeah, it’s one more thing you say that cuz
I used to send a postcard to the printer
[00:43:58]
repair business and we sent out postcards
at real trifle thing and then cluded
[00:44:03]
a perforated postcards that the customer
could tear da is already stamped.
[00:44:08]
It was already addressed and just gave
[00:44:10]
three things one through
five in essentially.
[00:44:12]
What we were asking for was any feedback
and it took if super quick
[00:44:17]
for the customer to respond to that we got
three quarters of those we would get 3/4
[00:44:24]
back which was when I would tell
that the people there like three corners.
[00:44:28]
Holy cow.
[00:44:29]
Is interest in talking to you because now
I’m thinking we ask for reviews from all
[00:44:35]
of us and we got more back in these
postcards and we did an online review.
[00:44:41]
So interesting the challenge is people are
[00:44:45]
so distracted today going
on email social media.
[00:44:51]
They got this phone buzzing with a update
all day long news Twitter feeds and you’re
[00:44:57]
buying for the retention and yes to step
outside of what their Norm is of checking
[00:45:06]
to be different and what’s different is
things that are traditional that people
[00:45:12]
forgettable so that postcard
that mail out.
[00:45:15]
That flyer is differin.
Yes.
[00:45:17]
It may cost you some money for Stanford
[00:45:20]
has negligible but different
different messages, right?
[00:45:28]
All right.
[00:45:29]
Lincoln marketing and advertising as many
different forms of media to get different
[00:45:35]
attention of these people that you
want to get in front of interesting.
[00:45:40]
I like it.
I like it.
[00:45:42]
I know we don’t have a whole
lot of time left here John.
[00:45:45]
So let’s talk about for the business
owners that are listing here.
[00:45:48]
What are the space of three things
that they should look for in an SEO?
[00:45:53]
Search provider?
Yasso.
[00:45:55]
SEO is fairly complicated has
200 signals is always updating.
[00:46:01]
Regularly.
[00:46:02]
My suggestion is when you’re ready again,
it’s not for everyone business owners have
[00:46:09]
to understand how important
it is before the value in it.
[00:46:12]
If you haven’t dabbled into advertising,
[00:46:15]
I would say don’t start
with that seal play with that really.
[00:46:20]
Play with the Ecstasy of that are
good traction or not.
[00:46:24]
Because if they just in business and you
[00:46:27]
think you’re going to be the expert right
away, like that’s a dream come true.
[00:46:33]
I do love Professional Services dentist
[00:46:37]
lawyer physio Cairo in all the trades,
but they’ve been in business for 2030 like
[00:46:43]
training and maybe in business
for like 5 years or 10 years.
[00:46:47]
They understand what it takes to be
[00:46:48]
a business person and that’s who you
want to be position as so understanding.
[00:46:57]
What s you really can do for you as
an expert to work with an expert do
[00:47:03]
with SEO before you sign up with someone
make sure you’ve met them check out.
[00:47:08]
There’s a check out.
The reviews reputation case studies
[00:47:11]
third-party reviews are
huge and references.
[00:47:14]
So understanding Like Apples
to Apples comparable.
[00:47:17]
Who are you using?
[00:47:18]
What are the you getting and.
[00:47:20]
Finding out like if there’s people
[00:47:24]
in the Nisha industry,
that’s work with you good track record
[00:47:28]
call those businesses all see if they
could be honest with a quick chat and see
[00:47:34]
if you can ask them like
experience results.
[00:47:36]
And you know, would you
hire them again or what?
[00:47:39]
Would your take be on it?
[00:47:40]
Right reading 10-20 $30,000.
[00:47:46]
It’s going to be a big ticket item making
[00:47:51]
sure you do everything you need
to make sure it says right decision.
[00:47:54]
All right.
And then again, it’s the gotcha right?
[00:47:58]
It’s like will you know that and take
comfort knowing that you have them working
[00:48:05]
for you for asking out a time
and let them do their thing.
[00:48:08]
All right, like expertise they
trust you for your service.
[00:48:13]
You want to trust them for their service?
[00:48:16]
You understand that you.
[00:48:19]
It’s like any employee as well.
[00:48:22]
Do you want to be a micromanager or do you
[00:48:24]
want to be the manager that people look up
to you trust her expertise and skill set
[00:48:30]
to hire some it’s the same thing right
when people are deciding which SEO it
[00:48:38]
could be a consultant
independent contractor agency.
[00:48:41]
It could be in house right speaker.
[00:48:43]
What is right for you?
[00:48:45]
It might not even be a seal.
[00:48:47]
It might just be contacted
via web development.
[00:48:50]
It could be a seal strategy right there.
[00:48:54]
So many pillars are a full-service.
[00:48:58]
We took care of everything cuz we feel if
[00:49:01]
we’re going to do it right we
do it right the first time.
[00:49:03]
All right.
[00:49:05]
So most of the businesses that you were
[00:49:08]
working with, can you paint a picture
of what type of what size Weehawken
[00:49:13]
the contractor the construction company
that’s five employees or is it typically.
[00:49:19]
Are the Hub revenue
of maybe 250 and onwards?
[00:49:25]
Alright.
[00:49:32]
Alright depends on what
they’re looking for.
[00:49:34]
So it’s a monthly retainer depending
on how to use landscape keywords.
[00:49:39]
And it’s a boutique agency.
[00:49:41]
We want to help the small
family-run businesses.
[00:49:44]
But also the larger is this is what we’re
trying to give them the best value
[00:49:49]
but also really focus on results,
but they trust us as s yours that know
[00:49:55]
what would kind of doing without
her track record, right?
[00:49:58]
Some good stories of people that were
[00:50:02]
either just starting out or let’s say
they’ve been around for a while,
[00:50:06]
but weren’t really known that hired
you and just rocket ship to the Moon.
[00:50:11]
Definitely like we have a lot of case
studies and third-party reviews.
[00:50:18]
I mean a lot of businesses just don’t
[00:50:21]
understand the magnitude
of what it as fuel campaign.
[00:50:24]
If done right and I always tell people
[00:50:27]
that you know, you probably tried a lot
of advertising and you’ve got frustrated
[00:50:33]
with other agencies were different
cuz we really need to understand you.
[00:50:37]
And once we understand what your goals are
we going to try to achieve those goals.
[00:50:41]
So a one-man operation
to five man to 10-man right?
[00:50:46]
That could be a success story for London.
[00:50:48]
You could be Revenue, right?
[00:50:50]
It could be headcount.
[00:50:52]
It could be, you know anything we’ve seen
[00:50:56]
a lot of businesses girl right from 2
million growing to 20 million or from 201
[00:51:02]
know what the pens right but again,
[00:51:09]
they have to be realistic to so they don’t
[00:51:12]
mind spending to getting so if
you’re spending $1,000 like.
[00:51:18]
Jason wise what do you expect right vs.
[00:51:21]
Someone’s paying $10,000 just say
[00:51:30]
that $3,000 business,
[00:51:32]
which I imagine a lot of well,
probably one or two man contractor
[00:51:38]
businesses are in that realm when they
just do a little odd jobs,
[00:51:42]
maybe the kitchen or basement here there,
but it’s tiny stuff on top of that.
[00:51:48]
They probably only have a gram to spend
the month or something like that asking
[00:51:52]
them to spend 10 grand a month is going
to be a half the revenue for the year,
[00:51:56]
which is not practical so much old what’s
practical and what’s what they can achieve
[00:52:03]
with that and that’s the thing
about what we’ve been trying to do.
[00:52:07]
We understand small businesses
that I am working with him.
[00:52:13]
We’re here to help all sizes.
[00:52:15]
Not just the bigger agencies
[00:52:19]
that that only want to have a $10,000
a month retainer married at fifteen
[00:52:24]
hundred or thousand dollars depending
on size Marketplace competition.
[00:52:28]
You want to help the little guys become
[00:52:31]
medium size or hiring people
in that success to bring up sometime right
[00:52:36]
and not having to worry
about what goes on digital.
[00:52:40]
That’s why I’m doing this.
[00:52:48]
Sure.
[00:52:48]
Sure, John before we finish I
want to ask you just your advice.
[00:52:55]
You started your business
from scratch essentially.
[00:52:57]
It’s been going for 8 years.
[00:52:59]
You’ve grown it 30 employees
that’s impressive.
[00:53:01]
What have you learned over the course
[00:53:04]
of those eight years that you
didn’t necessarily know.
[00:53:06]
We’re going to be challenges when
you first start it I learned a lot.
[00:53:11]
I’m still learning the biggest learning
[00:53:14]
for me was trying to delegate
[00:53:17]
and earlier as a business owner.
[00:53:25]
Should they want to know what’s
going on things are done the sooner.
[00:53:30]
I controlled it a lot early and I should
[00:53:34]
have let go more because
it was very stressful.
[00:53:38]
And not everyone’s going to work like you
[00:53:41]
as a business owner entrepreneur
and how DNA is different.
[00:53:45]
What a type personalities when you
delegate you hire people for different
[00:53:51]
tasks and roles and responsibilities,
you start understanding what their skill
[00:53:56]
sets are and give the more accountability
you give them more deliver was more
[00:54:01]
responsible and get them
to level up as well.
[00:54:04]
So I found that becoming a leader has
[00:54:07]
helped me becoming more I guess
stress-free but also helping them get
[00:54:14]
become better human and that’s
why I’m enjoying now.
[00:54:18]
This is part of my journey
of this business.
[00:54:21]
I’m loving the the team environment /
[00:54:25]
the culture always trying
to help them get better.
[00:54:29]
I totally agree when I first
started my first employee.
[00:54:39]
2007 something like that.
[00:54:42]
I treated or perceived that employee to be
[00:54:48]
a tool they were means
to accomplish an end.
[00:54:52]
And that end was essentially to take
care of my customer or our customer.
[00:54:56]
So to speak I wasn’t crazy cruel like
a Cinderella stepsister or something like
[00:55:00]
that, but I did not consider
the employees growth their Improvement.
[00:55:07]
Now, I mean over the course of time I’ve
learned and have evolved to hire better
[00:55:14]
employees that are actually looking
for growth in some aspect of their life.
[00:55:20]
Is actually been incredibly helpful.
[00:55:21]
You can give them more freedom to like
here’s the job make it happen.
[00:55:27]
So it’s helped me as a business owner
because then I don’t have to look over
[00:55:31]
their shoulder all the time use them
trust and it helps them improve.
[00:55:36]
So it’s an interesting range or
[00:55:40]
interesting Evolution, which is sounds
like you’ve gone through as well.
[00:55:44]
Even more interesting is when you come
[00:55:45]
across the business owners
that haven’t made that leap.
[00:55:49]
And you can see that they’re they’re
[00:55:51]
treating their employees
essentially as pets.
[00:55:54]
Yeah, and I think evolving as a parent
[00:55:58]
stress levels or important in treating
[00:56:05]
employees like humans now, they’re right.
[00:56:09]
You understand you have a family
and you want to harvest the best child.
[00:56:14]
Therefore you have a better perspective
[00:56:16]
of what it means to be a parent
and someone on your staff has children or
[00:56:22]
they are going through some challenging
times and maybe you are much more wise
[00:56:27]
and they are because of your experience
in the early stages of their career.
[00:56:31]
You can give them a perspective of what it
[00:56:35]
means cuz you lived it
so that respect alone.
[00:56:40]
I mean it’s happening right? You have
to let people in on your journey.
[00:56:54]
But giving them a bunch of choice so
[00:56:58]
that they can evolve
the way they want to do it.
[00:57:01]
Nice.
[00:57:02]
I like it cool John.
[00:57:05]
How can people find you? They can check out my website.
[00:57:09]
It’s www.localseosearch.ca
[00:57:14]
because we’re in Canada. We also own .com
but .ca is still
[00:57:19]
my bread-and-butter because Canada.
Check me out on the team page.
[00:57:28]
You can contact me.
[00:57:29]
If you have any questions regarding
[00:57:30]
anything SEO or anything
business-related,
[00:57:33]
we’re here to help support and give value
and provide some good valuable information
[00:57:39]
so that you can make
a better informed decision.
[00:57:42]
I love it.
I love it. It’s interesting
[00:57:44]
I was teaching a business planning class.
[00:57:47]
And the students were asking me where
do we go to learn more about this?
[00:57:51]
Like this one guy was starting a tea shop
[00:57:53]
and he said I do I learn about a tea
shop? Dude just find a tea shop owner
[00:57:59]
and talk to him because they will be
[00:58:01]
more than happy to give you advice. Any
business owner that doesn’t want to give
[00:58:04]
you advice is probably
not a good business owner.
[00:58:06]
It’s true, right? If you want
[00:58:09]
to volunteer and go out there and learn, go learn.
[00:58:19]
Well John, thank you so much for being on the show this has been awesome. Thanks a lot James for having me.
[00:58:23]
Awesome. This has been Authentic Business Adventures the business program
[00:58:27]
that brings you the struggle stories and triumphant successes of
business owners across the land.
[00:58:32]
We have just learned a whole bunch from John Vuong
the founder of local SEO search. John tell
[00:58:39]
me again that website localseosearch.ca. Awesome.
[00:58:45]
This is underwritten
by the Bank of Sun Prairie.
[00:58:47]
If you’re listening to this on the web,
you know what to do.
[00:58:50]
Please give a thumbs-up, subscribe, comment,
[00:58:52]
and share just like we said
we have to beg for all that stuff.
[00:58:54]
My name is James Kademan, entrepreneur
[00:58:59]
author, speaker, and helpful coach
and Authentic Business Adventures is
[00:59:03]
brought to you by Calls on Call offering
call answering services for businesses
[00:59:07]
across the country on the
web at callsoncall.com
[00:59:11]
As well as Draw In Customers Business
Coaching, offering business coaching services
[00:59:15]
for entrepreneurs looking for growth,
on the web at drawincustomers.com
[00:59:19]
And of course The Bold Business Book. A book
[00:59:22]
for the entrepreneur
in all of us, available
[00:59:24]
wherever fine books are sold. We’d like
to thank you our wonderful listeners, as well
[00:59:28]
as our guest John Vuong owner
of Local SEO Search. John,
[00:59:33]
thank you so much for being on the show.
[00:59:34]
Thank you James. Past episodes can be found morrning, noon, and night
[00:59:39]
at the podcast link found at drawincustomers.com
[00:59:42]
Thank you for listening, we will see you next week. I want you to stay awesome,
[00:59:45]
and if you do nothing else,
enjoy your business.
