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Heather Ewing – Abstract Commercial Real Estate
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What is up, you have found Authentic Business
Adventures,
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the business program that brings you
the struggles
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stories and triumphant successes
of business owners across the land.
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We are coming to you
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from the Calls On Call studios
underwritten by Bank of Sun Prairie.
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My name is James Kademan, entrepreneur,
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author, speaker and helpful coach
to small businesses across the country.
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And I’m excited because it’s commercial real
estate time,
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It’s time. I have Heather Ewing, the owner
of Abstract Commercial Real Estate.
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Heather, how are you doing today?
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Great, thanks for having me
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James. I’m excited.
I am, too.
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It’s always it’s fun to share about retail
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and commercial real estate is
definitely on fire right now.
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Oh, my gosh.
We’ve got a lot of great topics to cover.
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Yeah.
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So first, let’s just start out with
what is Abstract Commercial Real Estate.
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Let’s start there and then we can move on.
Definitely.
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So it’s the firm that I founded and I
opened it earlier this year, May of 2020.
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Congrats.
Thank you.
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Thank you.
Definitely an interesting time to start.
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Did you say May of 2020?
I did.
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So this will blow over.
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Yeah, hopefully covid blows over.
Yeah.
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But the reason I started it,
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it was really to come at it from a unique
vantage point of wanting to offer services
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in the commercial retail sector
in a unique manner.
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So we’re a boutique retail firm, OK,
servicing owners, developers and tenants.
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So it’s really niched and then
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additionally is focusing
in on the mixed use properties.
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OK, and that’s where, again,
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working with owners and developers,
offering insights so that they can lease
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their retail space at grade more
quickly, easily to better tenants.
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Sure.
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And really hit the numbers
that they desire.
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All right.
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So
what made you start your own thing versus
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just working for… You were
a broker before, right?
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Right.
I was for over five years.
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And the reason for that was really
having your own firm.
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You’re able to call the shots
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and to really offer a certain level
and caliber of service that you desire.
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OK, and so with that,
I decided to start my own.
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And with that, then
you’ll notice that my focus is pulling
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in a lot of the new video and technology
and really making a brand.
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It’s all right.
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And so those are different elements
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that I’m integrating
and will share with people.
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And it’s really providing additional level
and layer of service, something different.
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And in retail, it’s very customized.
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OK, so I can pinpoint that,
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including drone video footage and other
units to just make a precise package
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for them and something that’s
going to elevate them.
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All right.
That’s cool.
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Definitely.
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Is it tough to get in that realm to get
to start your own commercial real estate
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business? Well commercial is
definitely a breed of its own.
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OK.
You know, when you look at residential
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versus commercial,
two very different types of areas.
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People either love residential
or they love commercial.
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It’s a water and oil combination.
All right.
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It’s what I say.
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So I had the good fortune of several
years ago looking into it.
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I was interested in it and ended
up working in the retail sector.
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And it’s very creative.
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I’m a very creative person.
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And you work with passionate
people, right?
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They’re inspired.
They’re passionate.
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Sure.
Some are newer to the arena.
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Others are seasoned,
regional or maybe national.
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All right.
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Retailers and in it, it’s just a very
creative it’s definitely an area of risk.
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And there’s also big rewards.
Sure.
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So the deal structures are longer.
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There’s a lot of cold calling,
prospecting, building relationships.
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And the nice thing is,
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as you get established, of course,
all of that is much easier.
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Right becuase now people are looking for you.
Exactly.
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And so you’ve become known,
you service a special niche.
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And I think that’s something that’s
really helped me as being very niched.
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Nice.
OK, and so retail and new mixed use
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development is what people
know and come to me for.
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So it’s just a fun area.
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And at times it just feels like I always
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have to pinch myself
because I love what I do.
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Sure.
And I love helping people.
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And with that, you know,
it wasn’t always that way.
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I was in the operations arena,
OK, many years ago.
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All right.
About eleven years.
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OK, so I was in capacity,
planning and running production lines
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overseas negotiations for toolings,
electronics, motherboards.
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Right.
Completely different arena.
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Yeah, way different.
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Yeah, exactly.
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So the record skipped.
Yeah.
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And I found myself of, you know,
what do I really want to do in life.
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Of course, you don’t hear
about commercial real estate.
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No.
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It’s one of those unique areas
where if I only knew about that.
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Twenty-three
years ago, right?
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Right, exactly.
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But as you would want to say, fate,
destiny, interest,
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whatever tapped me on the shoulder and as I
got into it, I just fell in love with it.
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OK, it’s challenging.
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Yeah, it’s rewarding.
It’s unique.
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It’s very creative in how you
structure deals in the site selection.
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Having been born and raised in the Madison
area, I’ve been here forty six years.
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That knowledge is invaluable.
Right.
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So I remember before the Beltline was put
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in, before Westtown was
there and it was field.
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Wow.
You know, so you just know all these
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different areas, including the suburbs
and things of that nature and how it all
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fits together
and the nuances of neighborhoods.
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So you have demographics and all
of these various numbers.
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But then there’s also just the mentality
right now feel and a vibe what they
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typically purchase, what they typically
do, where they typically will.
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And that’s the psychotropics.
Right.
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So you compile all that together.
Right.
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And I’m a firm believer you use numbers,
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but you also have a gut hunch
and it’s paring all that together.
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That has really allowed me
to excel in that arena.
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All right.
And
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I’ve always loved shopping, James.
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I’m a professional shopper.
Sure.
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OK.
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And so from being a young
little girl, I loved that.
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And now I joke that I just
shop at a much grander scale.
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Shopping for real estate.
Right.
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It’s for real estate and the retailers.
All right.
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So I bring new retailers
into the market as well.
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All right.
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To provide new amenities, new offerings
and to really enrich people’s lives.
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Yeah.
So my tagline is it’s beyond retail.
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It’s living fully.
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Oh, right.
Right.
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So I see commercial real estate,
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especially retail,
as bringing beauty to people’s lives
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through these doors,
through the new offerings.
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People get to maybe try new menus, meals,
drinks, experiences,
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maybe it’s different clothing,
maybe it’s different decor for your home.
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Right.
Right.
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Maybe it’s a new fitness boutique.
Right.
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You like working out?
I do.
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I’m a big runner.
Right.
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So it’s fulfilling those other aspects
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of people’s lives that all falls
under this beautiful retail umbrella.
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Yes, interesting, because it sets
the tone for a neighborhood.
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Exactly.
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When I drive down East Washington,
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depending upon where you are in East
Washington, there’s a different vibe.
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Exactly.
Good or bad.
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Right.
Or just different.
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You just imagine if I was
a visitor to the Madison area.
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Right.
What am I thinking?
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Right when I see
three different check cashing places.
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Right.
Well, when you think about it,
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the East Corridor, that’s a perfect
example that you brought up. Years ago
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it was just kind of desolate.
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If you flew in from out of state,
you’re at the airport.
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It’s natural to come down.
Yeah.
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You’re going to be going down that road.
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That’s the main
entrance to downtown. Exactly.
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And this is what you get to see.
Right.
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And smoke over the right
over the past six plus years.
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You just see what a transformation
has occurred.
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And it was neat is
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I actually lived in that area,
so I got to experience it firsthand.
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And it’s so nice.
It has so many.
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Yeah.
It just has so many different venues.
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You think of what Otto Gephardt has done.
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Of course, Curt Brink,
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originally in the neighborhood
Stonehouse Development.
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I mean, it’s really bringing beauty
and experience to people’s lives,
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additional safety, because with numbers,
people feel more safe.
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Right.
It’s just a common
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concept, if you want to say.
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And with that,
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people are thriving in that area
where they love, well, minus covid.
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They love going to concerts.
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Right.
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We’d love to!
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We just cross our fingers
that day will return.
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Right.
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And it just does so much,
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and that’s where even the physical
properties themselves are going back
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to that artist in me is
it’s art on a grand scale.
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Totally.
Absolutely.
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And as different areas are cleaned up,
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people just feel better and additional
pedestrians brings greater safety.
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Right.
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And it just allows people
to experience more, have more.
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And as you have more,
I think you naturally give more.
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That’s fair.
That’s very fair.
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And so I see commercial real estate
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in a very creative, unique manner,
probably different than some people.
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But it’s just something I love.
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And I live it and I.
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I live downtown.
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OK, I’ve lived downtown for many years
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and that’s where I run and I
check in on properties.
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All right.
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I have a lot in the downtown
and the suburbs as well,
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but I’m a distance runner,
so I’ll run out to Fitchburg.
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I’ll run out.
So we really are is.
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Yes.
As my as is a few miles to go.
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All right.
Well, you’re the weights, right?
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And so I throw on my focus
my tennis shoes that I love.
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Yeah.
And I explore and I run all year long.
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So I’m checking in on properties.
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I know what’s happening
to other properties and it’s just very
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much a part of who I am and a service
that I deliver to my clients.
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That’s you know, that’s one thing about
this whole covid thing that I miss.
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Oh, I mean, there’s lots of things I
shouldn’t say the right thing, right?
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Only one grilled cheese.
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We are Wisconsin is the one of the things
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that I miss is that used
to drive to meetings.
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Right.
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And as you drive to meetings,
you see what’s happening.
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All right.
This building’s going up.
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This building’s coming down.
Right.
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Your campus and you think
there’s a hole in the ground.
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What was there before?
Right.
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You know, it wasn’t empty,
but you just you would have kind of your
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ear to the ground or at least eyes on
the ground to know what was going on.
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Right.
Yeah.
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And no, I’ll go to a meeting
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once a month.
All righty.
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Or you you’ll be like, hey,
I found something on Craigslist for sale.
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It’s on the west end of town.
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That’s fantastic, because I actually
get to go somewhere and see someone.
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Right.
Right.
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You know, driving will be like,
when did that thing go up?
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Oh, like it had to have taken them
months to put the building up.
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It does.
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And that’s what’s interesting, too, is I
in the commercial realm,
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I always say it’s kind of like you’re
living in two worlds, OK,
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because there’s a lot of confidential
information and trials and that’s where
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to and certain segments of land
or different properties
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being in my arena.
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I know that there’s conversations about
this or sure, demo this and build this,
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whereas others, you know,
it’s known and it’s in the news and.
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Sure.
And people are driving by and experiencing
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you know, it’s kind of like that little
balancing of morals is what I say.
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But just because of my industry,
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that’s where I am out driving and also
touring different sites with people and
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just making sure that I know what’s
happening with my properties.
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Yeah, that’s where to.
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I’ll just drop in at different businesses
and on and and just talk to people.
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And that’s where I love
the direct feedback.
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All right.
Talking with retailers.
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Sure.
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And I get to understand and look
through their eyes, OK.
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And understand how is it affecting them.
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And of course a lot have
been hit very hard.
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And that’s why you have
to be a resource, right.
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If you think about it,
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any challenge in life,
personal or professional,
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if you have a resource,
doesn’t it just give you that leg up?
[00:13:07]
Totally, right.
[00:13:08]
Because you know that there’s
a lifeline, right?
[00:13:10]
First day.
[00:13:11]
And so whether it’s connecting someone
with another business owner,
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connecting them with a resource, a lender,
a real estate attorney, contractor,
[00:13:20]
you name it,
I’ve always joked if you are dropped off
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in a city you’re not aware of,
find a real estate firm.
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Oh, they would know we’re always out.
Sure.
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And so in that sense,
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it’s just nice to be able to offer
that assistance to people, too.
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And I’m a firm believer in what comes
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around, goes around it
just being a good person and really
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putting your client’s interests
ahead and knowing the market.
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And again, growing up here, I still
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go through all the different
suburbs and I knock on doors.
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I make phone calls.
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And one of the things that I found out
through covid is with the mask media,
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the mask mandate that
people felt a lot more safe.
[00:14:07]
And so there was an uptick as far as
people visiting different stores.
[00:14:12]
Really?
Yes.
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Oh, interesting.
Of course, they really appreciated.
[00:14:16]
And in certain areas, you know,
they’re breaking even.
[00:14:21]
Some categories, of course, they’re
[00:14:23]
their numbers are on the roof,
like the bicycling arena.
[00:14:26]
Yeah, pizza is doing extremely well.
[00:14:28]
So these different takeouts are actually
making more money than they did last year.
[00:14:32]
Right.
[00:14:33]
And if they were prepared
and they didn’t even know it.
[00:14:35]
Right.
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And of course, others, unfortunately,
it’s a completely different story.
[00:14:41]
But that’s weird to talking
with the Nationals.
[00:14:44]
A lot of them are looking for travelers,
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as you can imagine, even if they didn’t
have that as part of their concept.
[00:14:50]
Right.
[00:14:51]
Chipotle, like you hear
the new Chipotle Lane.
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Oh, I haven’t.
So it hasn’t come to the Madison area yet.
[00:14:59]
But instead of a drive thru where you
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drive up to the board,
you obviously place your order.
[00:15:05]
Yeah.
[00:15:05]
Chipotle Lane, as they’re marketing it,
it’s all app driven.
[00:15:09]
So you go on to a little app, you order,
you pay for OK,
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and then you just go through the drive
lane and you just pick it up and go.
[00:15:17]
Interesting.
Right?
[00:15:19]
And so that’s also where Panera is
looking for drive thru locations.
[00:15:23]
OK.
A lot of these standardized retailers
[00:15:27]
at the national level are incorporating
that because no one wants to get burned
[00:15:31]
like they did in twenty twenty,
which is completely understandable.
[00:15:35]
Yeah.
[00:15:35]
So it’s interesting to see
how it’s shaking things up.
[00:15:38]
And in a word that we always hear pivoting
and it’s like new normal, right?
[00:15:44]
It is just like what in the new normal.
[00:15:48]
But I don’t know of any business
that hasn’t had to pivot for something.
[00:15:54]
Right.
Even if it’s a minor one.
[00:15:55]
Right.
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I mean, the whole point of being
an entrepreneur is that you’re solving
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problems and you hope that you
can afford to solve it.
[00:16:03]
Right.
So what it comes down to is you making
[00:16:04]
enough money to solve them when it
really comes down to prioritizing.
[00:16:09]
Right.
Of understanding the market, the feedback.
[00:16:12]
Right.
Right.
[00:16:13]
What they’re seeing through
their sales or lack thereof,
[00:16:17]
I think having a social
presence is really huge.
[00:16:20]
And that’s social online or online.
OK, definitely.
[00:16:24]
And that’s where, unfortunately, something
some businesses didn’t have websites,
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which is hard to imagine.
[00:16:32]
That’s where it’s interesting of working
with locals, regionals, nationals.
[00:16:36]
You have the full gamut.
Sure.
[00:16:39]
And it’s two very different worlds.
[00:16:41]
But that’s where the Nationals
aren’t traveling right now.
[00:16:45]
All right.
[00:16:45]
Whereas the mom and pops,
some are looking to to expand.
[00:16:50]
All right.
[00:16:51]
So what I’m coming across is people are
either looking to expand or to they’re
[00:16:55]
completely opposite of there’s no way
in God’s green earth they’re just right.
[00:16:59]
Batten the hatches down and.
Right.
[00:17:01]
So, as you know, as an entrepreneur,
it comes down to the power of choice.
[00:17:07]
And some people really are challenged
[00:17:10]
in making choices where
they spend a lot of time.
[00:17:13]
Oh, yeah.
On the front and even the back end.
[00:17:15]
And you just don’t have that time, right?
[00:17:18]
I was just talking
with my business partner.
[00:17:19]
So wouldn’t you think today
about how people
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people believe
[00:17:25]
that taking the time to make a choice,
that that time is just free?
[00:17:30]
No, but that time is not free.
No, no.
[00:17:33]
Like the decision not to make
a decision is a decision, right?
[00:17:36]
Exactly right.
[00:17:38]
The world is changing whether you
pull the trigger on something or not.
[00:17:42]
Definitely.
And that’s for two.
[00:17:43]
You’ll look at a lot
of successful business owners.
[00:17:46]
They are very decisive.
[00:17:48]
They look at the numbers
and they go with their gut.
[00:17:50]
Yeah.
That it’s it’s not a one or the other.
[00:17:54]
And everyone is going
to make mistakes, totally.
[00:17:57]
But that’s where as an entrepreneur,
you pick yourself back up and dusted off.
[00:18:03]
Right.
And you learn of note to self.
[00:18:07]
I will not do that again or
I’ll do this differently.
[00:18:09]
And so
[00:18:11]
you just really have to be able to shift
and contort yourself and heed the market.
[00:18:19]
Is that what you want is what they want
and people that listen and really build
[00:18:24]
those relationships and deliver
on that that are successful.
[00:18:28]
Right.
So it’s yeah.
[00:18:30]
It’s a culmination of a lot
of different skill sets.
[00:18:34]
Yeah.
[00:18:35]
And you have to be decisive
a few totally thousand times.
[00:18:40]
Yeah.
[00:18:41]
When I was talking to a friend that owns
a retail store on State Street
[00:18:46]
and she’s having a rough time,
not not to the point of closing like a lot
[00:18:51]
of stores have,
but it made me think, what if,
[00:18:55]
like you hear about all the stores
closing, you hear about restaurants
[00:18:57]
closing, bars, closing is just going
to change the dynamic of a lot of areas.
[00:19:02]
It is right.
[00:19:03]
And probably not in a good way.
[00:19:06]
Well, and that’s the challenge.
[00:19:07]
I’m I’m on the the big board.
[00:19:09]
I’m actually the executive committee.
Yeah.
[00:19:11]
Yeah.
So funny you bring that up.
[00:19:13]
Yeah.
But anyways, with State Street,
[00:19:16]
it is it has been hit hard
and there’s been a proxima.
[00:19:20]
Twenty six businesses that have
permanently closed, twenty six,
[00:19:24]
twenty six and there’s, I want to say
around 14 that are temporarily closed.
[00:19:30]
Holy cow.
So that’s a big number.
[00:19:33]
Forty.
How many are there?
[00:19:34]
There’s I was like one
hundred and fifty two.
[00:19:38]
So you’re already up to a third or just
Sha’re said there’s a significant portion
[00:19:43]
and that’s where they anticipate, you
know, next year that there could be 50.
[00:19:47]
Yeah, well easily.
Totally believe it.
[00:19:51]
Right.
[00:19:51]
Because it’s there’s no
from my point of view.
[00:19:54]
Right.
There’s no clear end in sight.
[00:19:58]
Right.
[00:19:58]
For a moment I was well I
guess we get PBP loan right.
[00:20:03]
And it says multiple employees
and two point five months.
[00:20:06]
And you say, all right, two 1/2 months.
[00:20:08]
This will be done right.
[00:20:10]
Then June or July,
whatever it was, came and went.
[00:20:12]
And you’re like, OK, after the election.
Right?
[00:20:15]
Right.
[00:20:15]
This will blow over every election because
we’ll be concentrating on election.
[00:20:18]
We’ll forget this COBRA
thing exists, right?
[00:20:20]
Well, that came and went right.
[00:20:22]
Sort of like
[00:20:24]
New Year’s know it’s true.
[00:20:26]
And if you think about it, you know,
[00:20:28]
I joke I always pull fitness into this,
which I’m sure you do to totally.
[00:20:32]
You think about people with the fast
twitch muscles, right?
[00:20:35]
The sprinter’s.
Then you’ve got the slow twitch,
[00:20:38]
your long distance and covid
is a long distance sport.
[00:20:42]
Turns out it.
Yeah.
[00:20:44]
Oh sure.
I know.
[00:20:46]
It’s the end of year.
[00:20:48]
Yeah.
[00:20:50]
And that’s where what’s interesting is
[00:20:52]
in the in the office category,
you know at first it was through end
[00:20:55]
of year twenty twenty,
then it was end of first quarter and now
[00:21:00]
that’s where it’s really shifting
into kind of second quarter.
[00:21:04]
Right.
Returns to offices.
[00:21:05]
So the end of second quarter.
[00:21:08]
So that’s it.
Keep talking.
[00:21:10]
July of twenty twenty one.
Right.
[00:21:12]
Oh right.
[00:21:14]
So hopefully you know Pfizer or someone
will come out with that miracle.
[00:21:20]
Yeah.
Right, right, right.
[00:21:22]
Right.
[00:21:23]
But I feel like they just need to throw a
placebo in a syringe and just like this.
[00:21:27]
Right.
Wouldn’t that be nice.
[00:21:29]
Just snap.
And you’re right.
[00:21:32]
Right.
It’s all about the sugar pill.
[00:21:34]
Right.
But
[00:21:38]
yeah.
[00:21:38]
As far as artistry is concerned is just
going to it’s it’s one of those you have
[00:21:43]
the immediate hit and it’s going to ripple
through and take years to read it.
[00:21:48]
It is.
[00:21:49]
And it’s one of those we are trying
to get it into a stronger space.
[00:21:52]
And it was becoming that.
[00:21:54]
And obviously we’ve got a few
extra years to add onto that, too.
[00:21:59]
But the nice thing is sometimes when
there is a major shake up,
[00:22:03]
it gives us an opportunity to really
recreate it and create something that we
[00:22:07]
had, you know, have that was even
better than right where we are going.
[00:22:12]
So in that’s true.
You know, I, I do believe there’s hope in.
[00:22:16]
The nice thing is I plan on being
in the downtown for quite a long time.
[00:22:20]
And so it was not going away annuity.
Exactly right.
[00:22:23]
And I, I have a lot
of business in the downtown.
[00:22:27]
So my personal goal and also a business
[00:22:30]
for abstract is is really recreating
that and bringing dimensionality to it.
[00:22:36]
And I fully believe that the local,
[00:22:40]
regional and national
retailers, we need all of them.
[00:22:45]
Totally.
Yeah.
[00:22:46]
And in bringing everyone together
in that sense, I think it’ll create
[00:22:50]
greater strength
and just recreate the street.
[00:22:54]
Yeah, I was so I had to get this
part from a dishwasher, right.
[00:22:57]
Yes.
[00:22:58]
And then look online, I can get
the part for twenty, thirty bucks.
[00:23:00]
Something like that.
Right.
[00:23:01]
I find it locally.
[00:23:03]
It was forty bucks and change
[00:23:05]
and I had no problem going
to the retail like I had to drive.
[00:23:09]
Right.
Right.
[00:23:10]
I to see a person.
Right.
[00:23:11]
I had a carbon copy receipt.
[00:23:14]
Right.
[00:23:16]
That’s a whole nother.
It’s the kinesthetically right.
[00:23:18]
Yeah.
But I’m like if,
[00:23:21]
if too many people shop for stuff
that is an immediate need, um online
[00:23:30]
places like that are going to go away
[00:23:32]
or be limited and you’re going
to change the look of the city.
[00:23:36]
You’re going to change the availability
of product to keep the city moving.
[00:23:39]
Right.
[00:23:40]
It’s just going to change
the whole dynamic.
[00:23:42]
And what I would consider to be
not in a good way overall.
[00:23:46]
Not a good way, right?
No.
[00:23:47]
And I agree with what you’re seeing.
[00:23:48]
But here’s where my belief is that
[00:23:52]
retailers that that stay in that same
old same old queue per say, sure.
[00:23:59]
Are not going to fare well,
whereas, OK, it’s fair.
[00:24:02]
And you hear about.
Right, we kept hearing about
[00:24:04]
the experiential of retail
in twenty nineteen twenty.
[00:24:08]
Right.
And yeah.
[00:24:11]
And it’s really though providing
an experience because if you’re,
[00:24:16]
if your marketing is based
off of volume and numbers.
[00:24:20]
Amazon is going to win every time.
[00:24:22]
Yes, but if you truly provide great
customer service, answer the questions,
[00:24:28]
maybe provide different options that they
wouldn’t have thought of and create
[00:24:32]
the relationships
that you cannot buy on Amazon.
[00:24:37]
That’s fair.
[00:24:38]
Also,
with our tech savvy and apps and people
[00:24:42]
all stuck in their iPhones,
sometimes I am too.
[00:24:47]
Is that listening to Sweet podcast?
Amen.
[00:24:51]
But people are craving connection.
Yes.
[00:24:55]
And Amazon does not provide that.
Very true.
[00:24:59]
Right.
[00:24:59]
So as long as retailers step up
to that realm and they’re going to have
[00:25:05]
to recreate it in a different way and it’s
going to take work, rate change is hard.
[00:25:10]
It’s not always fun.
[00:25:11]
But the retailers that do
offer that they will be able to charge
[00:25:16]
a premium price because you can’t buy
that online and people want attention.
[00:25:22]
Here’s a perfect example.
[00:25:24]
National retailer Lululemon.
Right.
[00:25:26]
OK, who hasn’t heard of it
in the fitness room.
[00:25:29]
Right.
[00:25:31]
So they have these great high end athletic
[00:25:34]
clothes, but it pains me,
but it’s seventy five dollars a shirt.
[00:25:39]
I’ve got a few because I love them.
All right.
[00:25:42]
Right.
[00:25:43]
And in my mind, I’m like,
I’m running all the time.
[00:25:46]
When you feel good, you look good.
[00:25:49]
I believe they’re combined.
[00:25:51]
So it’s it’s like you’re
investing in yourself.
[00:25:54]
But they take it a step further
that they have running communities.
[00:25:58]
Oh, they have yoga.
[00:26:00]
They have different fitness.
[00:26:01]
So they’re not just selling athletic where
they are truly selling connection.
[00:26:07]
All right.
[00:26:08]
You meet other runners and also
when when you meet other people.
[00:26:11]
Right.
That sends your natural endorphins.
[00:26:13]
And that’s where two
people are working out.
[00:26:16]
They’re feeling good.
[00:26:17]
They’re meeting people
can help them on a personal level career.
[00:26:22]
So it I mean, it helps your
immune system totally.
[00:26:26]
Right.
So there’s so much more than just
[00:26:30]
an athletic experience interest rather
than just going to not just glamazon.
[00:26:36]
So do you see the difference in see how
[00:26:38]
you can charge a higher,
higher price because you get them hooked?
[00:26:42]
Yeah, I’m hooked.
Right, right.
[00:26:44]
So it just the whole
service quality and price.
[00:26:47]
Exactly.
[00:26:48]
So it just depends on thinking outside of
the box and creating more for a person.
[00:26:54]
Right.
It’s going to require a lot more energy,
[00:26:57]
but you’re also going to secure
that person as a client.
[00:27:00]
So,
[00:27:01]
yeah, that’s true.
[00:27:02]
I feel like we as a society commodity’s
[00:27:05]
a lot of stuff that maybe necessarily
shouldn’t be much so much.
[00:27:08]
But on the flip side,
you go past the coffee shop, right?
[00:27:11]
And you can see
[00:27:14]
their drive thru line is insanely long.
Oh, definitely.
[00:27:17]
And like black coffee and over ten cents.
[00:27:21]
But you’re paying five bucks for it there.
Right.
[00:27:23]
And you’re waiting in line for it.
Right.
[00:27:25]
Right.
[00:27:26]
What are you getting
from experience point of view.
[00:27:29]
There must be something.
[00:27:30]
Well, if you think about it,
it’s something out of the old ordinary.
[00:27:35]
OK, so I’ll admit I love getting lattes.
I get hooked on that.
[00:27:41]
What are they.
Oh.
[00:27:43]
So it’s not all that soy.
[00:27:46]
Oh, it’s oat.
All right.
[00:27:48]
Yes.
And they’re so good.
[00:27:50]
Right.
And of course that’s an up charge.
[00:27:52]
Right.
[00:27:53]
Oh, okay.
All right.
[00:27:55]
It is a must try
[00:27:57]
to think about it when you leave.
[00:27:59]
You’re about six dollars.
Sure.
[00:28:01]
Yeah.
For rent.
[00:28:03]
But at the same time,
like in my mind, it’s a treat.
[00:28:07]
All right.
I can make coffee at home.
[00:28:08]
Right.
[00:28:09]
But there’s something about
and for me, I go in in person.
[00:28:13]
I love seeing everyone.
[00:28:14]
They’re like, Hi Heather.
[00:28:15]
Usual.
[00:28:17]
Oh, right now you belong.
Yes.
[00:28:20]
You’re community right there.
Yes.
[00:28:21]
All right.
Exactly.
[00:28:22]
So it’s one of those where
they’re just so good and right.
[00:28:26]
It’s kind of like an extended family.
[00:28:28]
Yeah, I don’t know.
[00:28:30]
Can you make an old lady at home?
[00:28:32]
Oh, no, no, no.
I’m the same way.
[00:28:35]
OK, to me it’s the coffee cycle.
[00:28:38]
Like coffee.
It’s not good, right?
[00:28:40]
I love my morning coffee, but it
just makes something extra special.
[00:28:45]
Sure.
[00:28:46]
And that’s for a because in commercials
you’re always out doing things.
[00:28:52]
And so I have a few favorites,
[00:28:54]
but it’s it’s just nice because you see
the familiar faces, especially with covid.
[00:28:59]
Right.
And that’s where some are staying open.
[00:29:02]
Even if they’re not making money,
which my heart goes out to them.
[00:29:04]
I just you know, I want so badly for them
[00:29:08]
to be rewarded for their work and their
time and things of that nature.
[00:29:12]
And at the same time,
it’s so generous of them because they’re
[00:29:17]
trying to do what they can
for their clients and customers.
[00:29:19]
Madison as a whole,
the employees are going and employees,
[00:29:24]
you know, and that’s to me, that’s
just a big public service agreement.
[00:29:29]
And I think with so many retailers,
they have worked and bust of their butt,
[00:29:33]
especially in the food arena, 60,
80 hours to little Johnny’s birthday.
[00:29:38]
Unfortunately,
that’s going to have to happen elsewhere.
[00:29:42]
They miss out on so many things and it’s
such tight margins until you get three
[00:29:47]
units or more
stores and things of that nature.
[00:29:50]
And I always say, God bless you,
[00:29:53]
because that’s what, you know,
is just so much time, energy and effort.
[00:29:59]
And when you look
to the food is perishable.
[00:30:02]
Yeah.
[00:30:03]
You have you have tight time frames
and so many different things.
[00:30:07]
And it’s just a very selfless area.
[00:30:12]
And a lot of times people have memories
[00:30:14]
of with their grandmother or
being a parent or someone.
[00:30:18]
So it’s very familial.
Right.
[00:30:20]
And that’s where to I just love all
[00:30:22]
different people that I work
with of how they got started.
[00:30:25]
And when was that point in time that you
knew that this was an area you wanted
[00:30:30]
to invest your money, your time, your
energy, all the different things into it.
[00:30:34]
So it’s it’s very personal,
but yet it’s great
[00:30:39]
helping them succeed and hit their numbers
so they can provide for themselves,
[00:30:44]
their family and take vacations and do
great things for the community.
[00:30:50]
It’s a really neat,
just creative, amazing arena.
[00:30:54]
And just, again, I.
[00:30:55]
I feel so fortunate to be in it.
That’s pretty cool.
[00:30:58]
Yeah, that’s pretty cool.
[00:31:00]
So how do you I guess
[00:31:03]
let’s talk about pricing for real estate,
because it’s always something that I’ve
[00:31:06]
been curious about when I’ve
gotten offices or warehouse space.
[00:31:11]
I think those are the two types
that I’ve had to get in the past.
[00:31:13]
Right with our businesses.
[00:31:15]
Sometimes I would see,
[00:31:18]
depending upon the season, right,
I would see tons of available space.
[00:31:22]
Right.
For a given price.
[00:31:24]
Right.
[00:31:25]
And nobody seemed to want
to fluctuate on the price.
[00:31:28]
And other times you see like this place,
[00:31:31]
I get what I can say
that the time to be a deal.
[00:31:34]
Right.
I don’t know if it’s a deal now,
[00:31:37]
but I didn’t see this one coming.
Right.
[00:31:40]
So I guess how do people,
the landlords or the managing companies
[00:31:46]
figure out how to price
a place and grade it?
[00:31:49]
That’s always been a curious
thing with the ABC office space.
[00:31:52]
Yeah, I feel like there’s a lot of people
[00:31:54]
calling the space A or even B,
and I’m like,
[00:31:58]
where?
[00:31:59]
Maybe it’s the volume or
that’s what I see here
[00:32:04]
qualify as a right.
[00:32:06]
Well, it’s one of those
you each landlord designates their pricing
[00:32:11]
and I can’t speak for everyone,
but I would hope that people are looking
[00:32:15]
at their competition and seeing
where they rank, OK?
[00:32:18]
And sometimes people just get
anchored on a certain number.
[00:32:22]
Maybe they ran their numbers and their
[00:32:25]
sweet spot is this range and they
just put it in at that range.
[00:32:28]
Sure.
[00:32:29]
Ninety seven percent
of my business is retail.
[00:32:32]
OK, so I really am highly
niched in that arena.
[00:32:36]
Yeah,
[00:32:37]
but as far as retail,
when I’m working with people,
[00:32:40]
I look to see the competition,
what they offer, where their base ranges
[00:32:45]
are, their triple net lease
terms, also the amenities.
[00:32:50]
And the big driver of that too is
density of vehicles and or pedestrians.
[00:32:55]
OK, so essentially traffic that’s
going to say that you exist.
[00:32:59]
Exactly.
It’s almost a marketing.
[00:33:01]
Oh, very much so.
Sure.
[00:33:02]
And that’s where looking at those
indicators, what’s interesting is going
[00:33:06]
back to State Street is we actually have
pedestrian counters on that street.
[00:33:13]
You really we do their borders.
[00:33:14]
So it’s what’s nice is you can do
you just go on to the DMI website.
[00:33:20]
Really?
Yes.
[00:33:21]
Well, that’s awesome.
And you can find the information, OK?
[00:33:25]
And with that, it’s broken down by block,
[00:33:28]
is broken down by day,
month, and then you can also get yours.
[00:33:32]
So what’s interesting is at the top
of State Street versus the lower,
[00:33:38]
you know, there’s almost like
two different demographics.
[00:33:42]
Oh, easily.
Yeah, right.
[00:33:43]
And so what would work well in the five,
six hundred block would not at the top.
[00:33:48]
And so that’s fair to just understanding
of the street and how it works.
[00:33:52]
But that’s where
we had over three and a half million
[00:33:56]
in the five, six hundred
block the other year.
[00:33:58]
OK, approximately.
Yeah.
[00:34:00]
And what’s interesting and I used
[00:34:02]
to always tell people
on the north side of the street is
[00:34:05]
the sunny side, OK, people
naturally cross the street.
[00:34:09]
Oh, and it’s funny because ice where
people used to just think nice sales line,
[00:34:15]
but when the when the pedestrian council
came out, it shows there’s about.
[00:34:19]
Five hundred thousand
person difference annually.
[00:34:25]
Wow, so that’s where two numbers are so
[00:34:28]
helpful,
you know, whether it’s commercial real
[00:34:30]
estate or any other arena of pointing
to the facts of,
[00:34:34]
you know, if you have an extra five
hundred thousand, that’s insane.
[00:34:38]
It is.
[00:34:39]
But it’s such a heavily trafficked because
this weekend there’s something in there
[00:34:44]
that’s going to be an extra 5000 people
that Saturday or Sunday or whatever.
[00:34:48]
Yeah.
So wow.
[00:34:50]
Of course, right now the numbers are
are less than half.
[00:34:54]
I mean, you know a bit,
a bit about 30 percent.
[00:35:00]
So it really it really affects that.
[00:35:04]
So going back to pricing things,
those were different indicators.
[00:35:07]
And also who who are the co tenants?
[00:35:11]
OK, you have strong anchors and that’s
where working with the national sun will
[00:35:15]
only go into areas where
there’s a large grocer, the or
[00:35:22]
air traffic like that of some kind.
Right.
[00:35:25]
OK.
And that’s where then when you look
[00:35:26]
nationally, too,
you’ll see kind of clumpiness
[00:35:29]
of who anchors with each other, Gojo, they
realize that this is a good fit for us.
[00:35:35]
Sure.
And that their numbers come through.
[00:35:37]
So it’s
[00:35:40]
I use a lot of that.
[00:35:41]
And then also just working with a lot
[00:35:43]
of retailers, I would say that my
my information isn’t diluted
[00:35:48]
in the sense of everyone I’m talking
to for the most part is a retailer.
[00:35:52]
I’m not talking to retail
office industrial.
[00:35:54]
Gotcha.
[00:35:55]
OK, so everyone I’m talking
to is in this market.
[00:35:59]
And so that’s where from
[00:36:01]
sharing comps and things of that nature
[00:36:04]
and getting a feel for it and knowing
what they desire, what they don’t desire.
[00:36:08]
All right.
[00:36:09]
And just having that experience,
it helps in pricing.
[00:36:13]
Interesting how important
from a retail point of view
[00:36:20]
you consider parking to be
downtown is crucial.
[00:36:25]
OK,
[00:36:26]
so this again, is it all depends on where
your listing is at or the development.
[00:36:31]
OK, you have to see through
the eyes of a customer.
[00:36:35]
Yeah, OK.
Right, totally.
[00:36:37]
So if it’s the west side of Madison,
[00:36:40]
you really need to have plenty of parking
right at the door
[00:36:44]
because if you have to walk a block,
that’s going to be a major faux pas.
[00:36:47]
Right.
Right.
[00:36:48]
It’s just not going to happen.
[00:36:50]
Whereas in the downtown,
it’s that group of customers and clients,
[00:36:56]
they know they’re probably
going to walk a block or two.
[00:36:59]
Yeah, exactly.
Sure.
[00:37:01]
Sure.
Right.
[00:37:02]
And so it just depends
on where the listing is at.
[00:37:07]
And that’s where to in helping different
developers because they’re going
[00:37:10]
to construct a new mixed use
or something of that nature.
[00:37:13]
We talk about ceiling heights.
[00:37:15]
We talk about parking.
[00:37:17]
You’re your street parking.
[00:37:20]
All those dimensions, the build out,
[00:37:22]
how it’s going to be delivered,
when they take possession,
[00:37:25]
if they can build in tandem
at the end of the development.
[00:37:29]
All right.
What amenities is there?
[00:37:31]
A rooftop terrace?
[00:37:32]
Do they have access to fitness,
underground parking?
[00:37:35]
A lot of different factors.
[00:37:37]
So you look at it all up front and also
[00:37:39]
the flow, OK, and that’s where to anyone
now I’m pleading with them and have
[00:37:45]
for a while,
if you can get a drive through, get it.
[00:37:50]
It sure can’t get a lane.
[00:37:52]
If you can’t get a lane,
have a walk up window.
[00:37:55]
Right.
Like it’s becoming a new norm.
[00:37:58]
That is not right.
[00:38:00]
There’s that phrase again, correct.
Yes.
[00:38:03]
Yes.
So worst case, you don’t read it.
[00:38:06]
Best case.
You always want to plan B, right?
[00:38:09]
People got burned really bad.
[00:38:11]
And you know what I liken it to,
to a lot of people is
[00:38:16]
if you have a salaried job
and you work for a corporation,
[00:38:22]
what if that went down
to twenty five percent?
[00:38:24]
Right.
[00:38:25]
That gives you just an inkling
of what it’s like for a retailer.
[00:38:28]
And actually that’s even generous, right.
[00:38:31]
Because the retailers are trying to push
out different deliveries, space that out,
[00:38:36]
especially the food and other
things like that where
[00:38:40]
they don’t even make it.
[00:38:41]
Twenty five percent.
Right, right.
[00:38:43]
It’s like they cut the pay
and made their job harder.
[00:38:46]
Exactly.
[00:38:47]
Because now you’ve got to build up your
website to allow for online orders
[00:38:50]
and then paying, paying per click
and all these different things.
[00:38:53]
And luckily we were able to get the street
[00:38:55]
to reprogram in the downtown,
which helped.
[00:38:57]
But now we’ve got winter coming.
Right.
[00:38:59]
Right.
And that’s where there’s some really great
[00:39:01]
ideas for really embracing winter
since we choose to live in Wisconsin
[00:39:08]
every yearfor family.
[00:39:11]
Yeah.
And
[00:39:14]
so that’s where it’s different.
[00:39:16]
And that’s also where
I’ve brought that up.
[00:39:19]
To people to in the corporate arena of,
OK, you have a 401k,
[00:39:24]
but for a lot of these business owners,
their 401k is in real estate.
[00:39:30]
Right.
And so that also has a different
[00:39:36]
projection.
[00:39:37]
So it’s all very different.
[00:39:39]
And again, you know,
we all choose the arenas that we’re in.
[00:39:42]
But
[00:39:44]
when you lose, you lose heart.
[00:39:45]
When you win, you can really win.
All right.
[00:39:48]
It’s just a very different risk
tolerance interest you pay to play.
[00:39:53]
All right.
[00:39:55]
How have you seen rents
change at all over the past?
[00:39:58]
Well, I guess since you started
your your own firm, right?
[00:40:01]
Well, with covid, I would definitely
say rents are different to some degree.
[00:40:06]
The nice thing is,
as far as rent integrity,
[00:40:09]
I’d say Madison is probably stronger
than some of the other areas.
[00:40:13]
OK, rent integrity.
[00:40:14]
What’s it and what what I mean
by that is they are offering,
[00:40:19]
you know, some of the carbon pricing is
[00:40:21]
what I would like
to do, because they acknowledge
[00:40:24]
and understand that people just are not
in the same space as they were when 19.
[00:40:31]
Right.
[00:40:31]
At the same time, everyone understands
that this isn’t going to be forever.
[00:40:35]
OK, I won’t accept that as a new norm.
[00:40:39]
No, no.
[00:40:41]
And so with that,
they are working together.
[00:40:46]
And that’s something
I’m really proud about.
[00:40:47]
I think it’s an old paradigm of where
[00:40:50]
there was the animosity
between tenant and owner.
[00:40:53]
I know it’s much more collaborative and I
think that’s just an old
[00:40:57]
method of thinking, OK,
and it’s good to you have to set the stage
[00:41:01]
of educating people so that they
can see through each other’s eyes.
[00:41:06]
And really the goal is for a win
and bring both sides right.
[00:41:10]
Because if it’s a if it’s a hard sided
one side deal, that’s just not worth it.
[00:41:15]
And so it’s really finding something where
both sides are going to feel good about
[00:41:19]
it, have a good working
relationship and things happen.
[00:41:23]
Right.
And so having that good communication
[00:41:26]
and just really collaborating
together I think is important.
[00:41:31]
And so with that, you know,
[00:41:32]
I anticipate a couple of years
things are going to be different.
[00:41:36]
OK, that’s where a lot of leases to you’ll
[00:41:38]
see attorneys are writing
in different covid
[00:41:43]
verbiage and things
of that nature is in the lease,
[00:41:47]
really.
Right.
[00:41:48]
So that if a worldwide
pandemic shows it right.
[00:41:53]
OK, so both sides are adjusting
[00:41:55]
and collaborating for the most part,
always a few that don’t.
[00:41:59]
But I think people are really going
to remember who worked with them
[00:42:03]
and who didn’t, and that is going
to have a long term effect.
[00:42:06]
All right.
So
[00:42:09]
Madison has always fared
very well in general.
[00:42:12]
I think due to the university
[00:42:14]
being the state capitol,
[00:42:16]
things of that nature versus some
of the other cities throughout Wisconsin.
[00:42:20]
And that’s what I meant by rent integrity.
Gotcha.
[00:42:22]
OK, just to return to the
strong numbers, we adapt.
[00:42:27]
You look at things for where they are
and then you also plan for the future.
[00:42:32]
And that’s where State Street two
of you have long term ownership.
[00:42:36]
Yeah.
[00:42:37]
That you if you want a really high return,
you want to buy in on something else.
[00:42:42]
But typically, if you want stability,
State Street has been stable for years
[00:42:47]
and years and years,
even though the fluctuations.
[00:42:49]
I don’t see it going away.
[00:42:51]
No, but if you look at, I guess,
the history of State Street, right.
[00:42:55]
Then there’s seasonality right there.
Right.
[00:42:57]
But you look in the ownership has has
held the properties for a long time.
[00:43:02]
Yeah.
And I see that continuing.
[00:43:04]
And with everything happening
[00:43:06]
in the market right now, again,
people are either leasing or they’re not.
[00:43:11]
But what’s really hot
are the the sales, OK?
[00:43:15]
And that’s where the sales
of property investment sales.
[00:43:18]
Oh, really?
There’s been a little bit on State Street,
[00:43:21]
but mostly it’s in, you know,
in the other sections of Madison.
[00:43:25]
OK, yeah.
Like the the malls.
[00:43:29]
Well, they’re declaring bankruptcy.
[00:43:32]
You.
[00:43:33]
Exactly.
[00:43:35]
And again, you know,
that’s where you’ll see in the larger
[00:43:39]
markets of their restructuring and they’re
breaking it down instead of big boxes.
[00:43:43]
They’re breaking it down into smaller
footprints and adding more variety,
[00:43:47]
more service and also
trying to get some of the local mom
[00:43:51]
and pops and fostering them through
where they do grow and extend, OK.
[00:43:55]
So I think disruption in any arena will
[00:43:59]
always bring that initial
scare and of into the fan.
[00:44:03]
Right.
But then it also opens the door
[00:44:05]
to creativity and opportunities
for creating something that might be even
[00:44:10]
more beneficial for where
we’re at in the world.
[00:44:12]
That’s fair, right?
[00:44:13]
That’s fair, right?
Yeah.
[00:44:15]
I guess in the case of the malls,
I feel like that was becoming.
[00:44:20]
I love this term,
but I’ve dated a dinosaur.
[00:44:23]
Yeah, right, and that’s where you look,
[00:44:25]
even Hilldale Mall Development,
they saw the writing on the wall years ago
[00:44:30]
and they took it to an open
air shopping center.
[00:44:32]
Yeah.
So it’s breathing new life into it.
[00:44:36]
And with that, the three phases,
they went through phases one and two.
[00:44:40]
Phase three is on hold.
[00:44:42]
But just even think of that and how
it’s more dynamic, actually.
[00:44:47]
Great for covid.
Right, right.
[00:44:48]
You’re out in the open air,
things of that nature.
[00:44:51]
And it’s been a great amenity.
[00:44:55]
A lot of new operators to that area.
[00:44:58]
And
[00:44:59]
I think it’s one of those.
[00:45:01]
Everyone has a spot within retail.
Right.
[00:45:05]
And it’s just a matter of getting your
your bearings, working out the kinks.
[00:45:10]
And as you get larger,
[00:45:11]
you move into more high end properties,
maybe with a larger rent where you’re also
[00:45:19]
working with more of the nationals.
[00:45:20]
And so people shopping at these areas are
[00:45:24]
then going to come to your
service seeing more traffic.
[00:45:26]
You just keep upgrading.
Sure.
[00:45:28]
Depending on what your goals are.
All right.
[00:45:30]
All right.
Interesting.
[00:45:32]
Yeah.
It’s such a weird
[00:45:35]
I don’t know, isn’t is an interesting
market and interesting.
[00:45:41]
The whole commercial real estate
thing is fascinating to me.
[00:45:44]
It is.
I love it.
[00:45:46]
It’s it’s such a part
of my life anywhere I go.
[00:45:48]
And I’m always thinking about retail
[00:45:51]
and talking to people and the owners or
how do you connect with them
[00:45:55]
and and getting different ideas,
even from a design perspective.
[00:45:59]
What looks good?
How do we incorporate that into some
[00:46:03]
of the business and retailers
and just breathing more life?
[00:46:06]
Because as we bring in more people, sure.
[00:46:09]
That the competition increases.
[00:46:12]
But at the same time, we all want to play
full out, you know, like yourself.
[00:46:17]
Well, I’d like to think so, buthopefully.
[00:46:20]
Yeah.
And that’s where to you want to push
[00:46:22]
yourself to become better and share
more and and perfect your craft.
[00:46:28]
And I just love meeting new people
and understanding how they
[00:46:35]
crafted their deal,
how they brought this retailer and what
[00:46:40]
amenities this retailer can bring to this
area, how you might enjoy your life more
[00:46:45]
by trying this or maybe at some type
of massage or maybe it’s, you know,
[00:46:49]
some different element,
maybe in some great chiropractic,
[00:46:54]
you know, that that helps someone’s back
and they have renewed life and energy.
[00:46:59]
Right.
Right.
[00:46:59]
So whatever it takes is so many different
shapes and forms that I think, too.
[00:47:04]
It just it brings new life into
[00:47:08]
old spaces and also people’s lives.
[00:47:11]
So it’s just a thing of beauty all around.
That’s cool.
[00:47:15]
How do people find you?
[00:47:17]
Because I imagine there’s always people
looking for for commercial real estate.
[00:47:20]
Exactly.
Maybe I’ll take that back when I.
[00:47:24]
You presented it to the class, right?
That’s right.
[00:47:27]
It taught
[00:47:29]
back when you could do in person teach.
[00:47:31]
Right.
[00:47:33]
And there were people that didn’t know
[00:47:36]
how to rent the space,
like didn’t they’re going to start their
[00:47:39]
coffee shop or the restaurant or
their workout place or whatever.
[00:47:42]
Right.
And they’re like, OK, I’m ready to rent.
[00:47:45]
Right.
What do I do right now?
[00:47:47]
And it’s one of those.
[00:47:49]
You don’t run into commercial real estate
brokers nearly as much in Arquettes.
[00:47:53]
You know, there’s there’s fewer of us,
[00:47:57]
especially when you compare
it to the residential arena.
[00:47:59]
But a lot of it is word of mouth.
[00:48:01]
OK, I tell people and that’s where I
really enjoy and working with the locals
[00:48:06]
regionals and nationals, because it’s
a completely different conversation.
[00:48:10]
The the basis of what you need
to know is typically the same.
[00:48:14]
But with the person maybe that’s just
starting, like you said, with Quebec,
[00:48:18]
it’s really nice to understand
what their goal is.
[00:48:21]
They need to be clear with it.
[00:48:23]
And then that’s where to finding
the right site that’s within a budget.
[00:48:28]
A lot of times people want to start out
[00:48:29]
with this big, great, huge space
and the overhead is going to kill them.
[00:48:33]
Oh, sure.
Right.
[00:48:34]
And so I think it’s having those direct
[00:48:36]
and honest communications and also make
sure that they know their numbers.
[00:48:41]
You have to go to your lender,
[00:48:42]
your business plan, which you
always help them out with.
[00:48:45]
Those are all crucial factors.
[00:48:47]
So that is one subset.
[00:48:49]
When you go to the next the regionals,
[00:48:52]
typically they’ve got a few
locations, a few stores.
[00:48:55]
If they’re coming from
Milwaukee, let’s say.
[00:48:58]
Yeah, regionally to the Madison area.
[00:49:00]
So they’re usually pretty savvy
on the different leases and that’s where
[00:49:05]
it’s really helping them
find the right location.
[00:49:07]
OK, they know Madison,
but they don’t know it like I do.
[00:49:10]
Right.
[00:49:10]
Regional would be like a pick
and save or like regional.
[00:49:14]
It could be like, for example, Colectivo.
Oh.
[00:49:19]
Right out of Milwaukee,
[00:49:20]
I didn’t know there, Madison,
you look at me out of touch
[00:49:25]
or or that’s where a lot of the different
groups just working with them here,
[00:49:32]
the Nomad, for example,
I worked with them and the ownership side,
[00:49:37]
but it’s it’s helping them to find
locations that will work for them,
[00:49:42]
understanding the market,
the demographics, and
[00:49:47]
they’re already savvy.
[00:49:48]
So you don’t have to talk
about the business plans.
[00:49:50]
All those they’re clear on what they want.
[00:49:51]
They just really need the local expertise.
[00:49:54]
OK, and then it’s working
through brokerage.
[00:49:56]
And then as you work with the Nationals,
[00:49:58]
that’s where they’ve
done it a hundred times.
[00:50:02]
They already have all their their
floor plans of what they need.
[00:50:05]
They’re very clear on their square footage
and really their deal requirements.
[00:50:11]
All right.
And so then it’s it’s kind of massaging
[00:50:14]
that into whichever property is going to
work so that everything aligns with that.
[00:50:19]
Sure.
[00:50:19]
And that’s where typically I’m on the
owners side of something like that.
[00:50:23]
So it’s just merging the gaps and really
[00:50:26]
looking at what’s the total
deal that we can give.
[00:50:30]
It’s also a different deal.
[00:50:31]
Terms come into play.
[00:50:32]
It’s based on who the tenant is,
[00:50:36]
how successful they are, their lease
term in some of these other things.
[00:50:40]
OK, so it’s it’s a different scenario.
And each of them.
[00:50:43]
Yeah,
[00:50:44]
but it’s fun because you’re tapping in
at different areas with with each other.
[00:50:49]
OK, so it’s fun.
Interesting.
[00:50:52]
It is.
I want to ask you because you’re
[00:50:53]
in the commercial real estate realm,
especially with the retail when I see
[00:50:59]
Kmart.
Right.
[00:51:00]
OK, Kmart was kicking butt for a while
and then close up shop and now you still
[00:51:06]
go through some small towns, still
have that empty Kmart, just that box.
[00:51:11]
Right.
[00:51:12]
And I think the one in Oklahoma where I
grew up, I think the roof even caved in.
[00:51:15]
Oh, no.
Like from snow or something like that.
[00:51:19]
It just hung out like.
No.
[00:51:22]
So who who typically owns those and how do
[00:51:26]
leases work with a lot
of that big box, though?
[00:51:28]
Because I get the impression it’s not
[00:51:30]
the Kmart’s of the world
that own the property.
[00:51:33]
Well, you know, with the larger ones,
[00:51:35]
I don’t have as much experience
with some of those big boxes per say.
[00:51:39]
But sometimes that’s where
when they shutter the store,
[00:51:44]
the money actually goes out
[00:51:45]
to the taxpayers where they end
up paying some type of relief.
[00:51:49]
OK, so that, of course, is is a factor
that a lot of people don’t like.
[00:51:54]
Also, they’ll sit on it for a while
[00:51:58]
and until they sell it off, yeah,
it’s just desolate and that’s where to.
[00:52:04]
It’s an eyesore.
[00:52:05]
But from a dollars perspective, you know,
[00:52:08]
they’ve already redistributed their
resources and it’s on to another spot.
[00:52:13]
So it’s more of an eyesore in that sense.
Right.
[00:52:16]
And it’s a lot of times these places will
sit until a negotiation is reached or they
[00:52:21]
don’t want to tear it apart because they
might backfill it in with another store.
[00:52:26]
All right.
So that’s where to even on State Street,
[00:52:28]
you’ll see some of these vacancies
are just vacant for a while because
[00:52:35]
the owners have had the property
[00:52:37]
for a long time and they
don’t have to lease it.
[00:52:39]
Oh, that’s a common misconception.
[00:52:41]
People frequently think
[00:52:43]
if a place is vacant,
while they would love to have me in it,
[00:52:47]
and that’s not necessarily how it always
is, because people are can be a liability.
[00:52:53]
Totally not if you have a solid tenant.
Right.
[00:52:55]
But sometimes if
if it’s a newer person and maybe they’re
[00:52:58]
not really sure what they’re doing,
then you have to you know,
[00:53:02]
there’s the possibility that they’re not
paying and you have to evict Raymond
[00:53:05]
and all this back and forth
where there’s a headache.
[00:53:07]
Right.
It’s one factor.
[00:53:09]
Right.
And so sometimes it’s easier to just leave
[00:53:12]
it vacant or sometimes do they
want a certain type of retailer?
[00:53:16]
They want a certain food, OK?
[00:53:19]
And they’re able to be
choosy because they don’t need the rent.
[00:53:24]
Sure.
[00:53:25]
And so until they find something
like that, they can wait.
[00:53:29]
Interesting.
[00:53:29]
So it’s just a different world than
what a lot of people would assume.
[00:53:33]
Yeah.
Mm hmm.
[00:53:34]
Interesting.
Right.
[00:53:35]
And that’s where two deals times, if they
can be a few months or they can be years.
[00:53:40]
All right.
So it just really depends on what it is.
[00:53:43]
And to if you’re going through a different
[00:53:47]
city approvals,
whether it’s a story that’s going to take
[00:53:50]
longer different licenses,
liquor and different things,
[00:53:56]
it it really just depends
on the deal itself.
[00:53:59]
Sure.
So interesting, isn’t it?
[00:54:02]
Is it you bring up an interesting point
talking about the city,
[00:54:06]
has it been challenging working
with the city with some or have you seen
[00:54:09]
challenges with different cities or
jurisdictions with retailers trying to get
[00:54:14]
whatever it is, you know,
in a drive thru or a patio?
[00:54:17]
Right.
[00:54:19]
The drive thru
that’s been challenging for a lot
[00:54:22]
of owners to to get
approvals and drive through
[00:54:26]
the challenges from a leasing standpoint,
it could be leased out very quickly.
[00:54:31]
But, you know, depending on space,
depending on the roads and different
[00:54:35]
things of that nature,
there’s a lot of factors involved.
[00:54:37]
OK, so I don’t profess to know that.
[00:54:39]
I just know it’s a lot easier to lease.
All right.
[00:54:42]
Especially Story Heights.
[00:54:44]
That’s where
Ascendent Holdings was working
[00:54:48]
with a boutique hotel over
the top of State Street.
[00:54:51]
And it took about two and a half years.
Wow.
[00:54:55]
To get the additional story height.
[00:54:57]
And then at that point,
they didn’t have the funding.
[00:55:00]
So it was a lot of work,
but the funding went away.
[00:55:04]
Right.
Or just got spent elsewhere.
[00:55:06]
Spent elsewhere.
OK, so unfortunately,
[00:55:11]
the one hundred block of state
has remained as they are.
[00:55:14]
Interesting.
Right.
[00:55:16]
And decision not to make a decision.
Right.
[00:55:18]
And so that’s where to know.
[00:55:20]
We have a scene in the arena
that time kills dels.
[00:55:23]
Oh, and it does.
[00:55:24]
And that’s where you can abdelal fatigue,
[00:55:26]
where people get tired
of going back and forth.
[00:55:29]
And after a while it’s like
this party doesn’t care.
[00:55:32]
Maybe this party or maybe this party
[00:55:34]
doesn’t feel they’re being respected
and this party is tired of it.
[00:55:38]
Or maybe something happened in someone’s
family and now they’re moving.
[00:55:43]
Oh, I’m sure.
[00:55:44]
Or they just aren’t going
to start this concept.
[00:55:47]
Or, you know,
there’s a multitude of different things
[00:55:50]
where maybe someone’s
having health problems.
[00:55:51]
Right, that ends that.
Sure.
[00:55:54]
Right.
Or maybe there’s some new property that’s
[00:55:58]
coming out now because this
deal was taking so long.
[00:56:01]
We’re just going to move on now.
[00:56:02]
The Nationals going over here instead,
[00:56:04]
because this has greater opportunity
and we didn’t have to move right away.
[00:56:08]
Right.
[00:56:09]
So there’s a lot of factors
that can come into play.
[00:56:13]
And that’s where, if you think about it
in commercial brokerage,
[00:56:17]
unless you’re charging council fees
and other things of that nature,
[00:56:21]
you don’t get paid until the lease
is executed or the sale closes.
[00:56:27]
So everything else is like
you’re a public servant
[00:56:32]
right up until that point.
[00:56:34]
And that’s where to sometimes people are
[00:56:35]
just like, you know, they feel that, well,
why don’t you just work for free?
[00:56:41]
And it’s one of those everyone wants
[00:56:42]
to get paid for what they do
work for free just entirely.
[00:56:45]
No, at times.
Oh, gotcha.
[00:56:48]
And and so it’s always kind of humorous.
[00:56:52]
It hasn’t happened in a long time.
[00:56:53]
But it was it was interesting
in the early days of like,
[00:56:58]
well, can’t you just do the deals like
no one, just like you want to be paid.
[00:57:01]
I’ll be paid as well.
Yeah, right.
[00:57:03]
So it’s just funny.
Something different.
[00:57:05]
It’s such a weird question.
Yeah.
[00:57:07]
Yeah.
[00:57:07]
I mean, like, would you ask
your doctor for a free surgery.
[00:57:11]
No.
Right.
[00:57:13]
I don’t know that one.
Right.
[00:57:14]
Right.
[00:57:16]
The joke on my end is that nobody uses
[00:57:18]
a discount for Lasik right
now because who would write.
[00:57:22]
You would have to question their right,
their thought process.
[00:57:25]
Like what did you cut
to give me this discount.
[00:57:28]
What did you not cut that exactly?
[00:57:31]
So it’s it’s an interesting world.
[00:57:34]
And that’s why I say to of who needs to go
to Vegas when you’re in commercial real
[00:57:38]
estate, there’s so much variety and it’s
you know, it’s forever changing
[00:57:44]
and flowing and it’s very time sensitive
where especially with different products.
[00:57:49]
The nice thing is, as you know, an arena,
that’s where you can add more value
[00:57:52]
because there’s properties that come
up that aren’t listed yet.
[00:57:56]
And it’s keeping in your mind and also
in your CRM system,
[00:58:02]
which I hope people have,
is to be able to reach out and add value.
[00:58:07]
Right.
[00:58:08]
Because at the end of the day,
it’s about providing value,
[00:58:11]
providing a service and also helping
people know that they have all the tools
[00:58:17]
that they need to make
the choice right for them.
[00:58:20]
Right.
And it’s their choice.
[00:58:22]
And I think sometimes people
[00:58:25]
get that in reverse where they’re trying
to push upon them what they want.
[00:58:29]
And it’s really their choice.
Right.
[00:58:32]
And that’s rare in any arena.
[00:58:34]
Some people can get focused too much on,
I think, the commission and want to push
[00:58:37]
a deal through for their
own personal interests.
[00:58:41]
But I think at the end of the day,
[00:58:43]
you can put your
head on your pillow and feel good about
[00:58:46]
what you’ve done,
looking out for your client.
[00:58:48]
And to me, that’s also what
fosters the long term.
[00:58:51]
When you’re servicing people, you’re good.
[00:58:54]
And I always say
[00:58:56]
I’m going to have to put my trust
and faith in people in different arenas.
[00:59:01]
And so I want to I want to come across
the person that’s going to help me.
[00:59:05]
I help people and navigate
that and do what’s right for me.
[00:59:09]
So it’s
[00:59:12]
it’s really simple.
[00:59:13]
At the end of the day, a person.
[00:59:15]
No, no, you’re arena.
[00:59:18]
Do a great job and have
fun at the same time.
[00:59:22]
That’s the name of the game right there.
[00:59:24]
If you’re not enjoying it,
you’re doing something.
[00:59:26]
I agree.
Completely wrong business.
[00:59:29]
So, Heather, thank you so
much for being on the show.
[00:59:31]
Definitely for having me.
Yeah, this is awesome.
[00:59:34]
How can people find you?
[00:59:36]
Great question.
[00:59:37]
They can reach me on my website
[00:59:39]
at AbstractCommercialRealEstate.Com.
[00:59:42]
Awesome.
[00:59:43]
Or they can also reach me at 608-239-4781.
[00:59:48]
Nice.
Tell me really quick.
[00:59:50]
Yeah.
How did you come up with a name? Abstract?
[00:59:53]
So I have always had
that creative artistic spirit.
[00:59:59]
Yeah.
[00:59:59]
And so I’ve actually been
oil painting for many years.
[01:00:03]
Have you really.
Yes.
[01:00:05]
Oh nice.
[01:00:05]
And many years ago I had
started a small art business.
[01:00:09]
Really?
It’s commissioned oil paintings.
[01:00:11]
We were talking for an hour and this just came up?
Oh yes.
[01:00:14]
I joke that it was during
my midlife crisis in my thirties.
[01:00:18]
All right.
[01:00:19]
Because prior to that, I had worked in
the operations arena for 11 years.
[01:00:24]
And, you know, like I was saying,
[01:00:26]
with the capacity, planning and overseas
negotiations,
[01:00:29]
toolings, all of that forecasting
and gathered a lot of great knowledge.
[01:00:35]
And then I was just like, you know,
it’s not fulfilling me, though, right?
[01:00:39]
The money was nice, but I wasn’t
really that passionate about it.
[01:00:43]
OK, so I went through
and took years of work.
[01:00:46]
I tried different things and looking back,
I would have done it differently.
[01:00:49]
But I started and art business, later
[01:00:51]
it was fitness I was a personal trainer
[01:00:54]
and coach. Really? All
of these different things.
[01:00:57]
Yes.
So how long are we talking?
[01:01:00]
Gosh, that was late 2000s.
All right.
[01:01:05]
And then I got into real
estate in 2010.
[01:01:08]
OK, and so it’s.
Yeah.
[01:01:11]
I mean you just pick the years
to get into real estate.
[01:01:14]
I know.
Isn’t that the truth.
[01:01:16]
So anyways, from that
[01:01:20]
fast forwarding to the commercial sector,
I was just like, this is perfect.
[01:01:25]
All right, because I get to use that base
[01:01:27]
from operations, the time where I
tried a lot of different things.
[01:01:32]
So I knew what worked and what didn’t.
All right.
[01:01:34]
What traits, what skill sets.
[01:01:36]
And then in the commercial retail sector
[01:01:39]
of it’s just so fun and it
bridged all of that together.
[01:01:44]
All right.
So tying in with the name of abstract is, I
[01:01:47]
get to use that creative spirit
in with all these different deals.
[01:01:53]
And also the retailers that I
work with are very creative.
[01:01:56]
It may not be an oil painting, right.
[01:01:59]
Your paint brush on a big canvas,
[01:02:03]
but I see each of those
retailers as a canvas. Fair.
[01:02:08]
So I paint with them their needs,
their goals, their desires,
[01:02:12]
and I get them the lease deal that they
need to be able to do all that.
[01:02:16]
Or maybe I sell the property
that allows them to do that.
[01:02:19]
All right.
So they’re fulfilled.
[01:02:21]
I am fulfilled.
And again, it’s bringing beauty to lives.
[01:02:25]
Right.
[01:02:25]
The landscape and also the the big
developments that I work on.
[01:02:30]
Right.
They are beautiful.
[01:02:32]
And I love seeing the floor plans,
the site plan, building the layers.
[01:02:37]
And also when they start building it,
[01:02:39]
I’m all taking pictures
of it and just sharing that.
[01:02:42]
And it’s it’s a huge painting.
[01:02:46]
It’s art on a grand scale.
Nice, I see.
[01:02:48]
I take the abstract.
Right.
[01:02:50]
And then I bring it
into if you want to say,
[01:02:55]
it into life
[01:02:56]
in that sense.
You’re obviously the developers are doing
[01:02:59]
so much and the owners
and construction and the retailers.
[01:03:03]
But I get to be a part of that process.
[01:03:06]
And I love that you helped orchestrate it.
That’s cool.
[01:03:11]
That’s super cool.
[01:03:12]
Oh, exactly, that’s clever.
Awesome.
[01:03:15]
Heather, thank you so much
for being on the show.
[01:03:16]
My pleasure, James.
[01:03:18]
This has been cool. We’ll have to have a check in.
[01:03:20]
Yeah, sure. Do we check
[01:03:22]
in in a year?
[01:03:23]
When will this blow over.
Right.
[01:03:25]
Right.
Well, and that’s why too,
[01:03:27]
with with it being Covid as like
this is the perfect time to get going.
[01:03:31]
Yeah.
Yeah.
[01:03:32]
So what I thought of it is at this time,
the playing field is leveled.
[01:03:37]
Yes.
Right.
[01:03:38]
So the firms that have been around for
a while, they’re slower right now, too.
[01:03:43]
Right.
And so I used it really as a time to reach
[01:03:47]
out to different retailers,
to be a resource, especially in the early
[01:03:52]
days, and connect them with lenders
for PPP or just different resources or
[01:03:57]
maybe other businesses,
things of that nature.
[01:04:00]
And as time has shifted,
[01:04:03]
people are looking to buy or at least
at some degree.
[01:04:08]
And that’s where too, I figured,
[01:04:10]
get my systems in place, all the creative
stuff, the social media, the websites, processes.
[01:04:17]
And then that way when the
doors do fully open.
[01:04:20]
Yeah, I’ll be right there.
All right.
[01:04:23]
Yeah.
[01:04:23]
And so believe it or not,
I have ever been busier now than ever.
[01:04:28]
That’s awesome.
I have about 20 listings.
[01:04:30]
Wow.
I have great properties.
[01:04:32]
I work with great owners,
[01:04:34]
the developers, also the tenants that I
work with, you know, offers in for sales.
[01:04:42]
It’s been super busy and a great way,
but I’ve also done a lot of door knocking
[01:04:46]
and prospecting and I
work at a lot of hours.
[01:04:51]
Like yourself.
Yeah.
[01:04:52]
You gotta earn it.
Exactly.
[01:04:53]
It doesn’t just happen,
[01:04:55]
but like anything as you get
that for momentum, it gains speed.
[01:05:00]
And it’s it’s just great to be able to do
something that I love to help people.
[01:05:05]
That’s cool.
The 20 year overnight success right?
[01:05:10]
Awesome.
[01:05:11]
This has been Authentic Business
Adventures,
[01:05:13]
the business program that brings you
the struggle
[01:05:15]
stories and triumphant successes
of business owners across the land.
[01:05:20]
If you are listening to this on the Web,
please do me a huge favor like, subscribe,
[01:05:26]
comment, share. Do all that social
stuff that that the world needs to see.
[01:05:32]
My name is James Kademan
[01:05:33]
and Authentic Business Adventures is
brought to you by Calls On Call, offering
[01:05:37]
call answering services for small service
businesses across the country, on the web
[01:05:41]
at CallsOnCall.com. As well as Draw
In Customers Business Coaching,
[01:05:46]
offering business coaching services
for entrepreneurs,
[01:05:48]
looking for growth, on the web
at DrawInCustomers.com. As well as
[01:05:53]
The BOLD Business Book available on Amazon
and wherever fine books are sold.
[01:05:59]
The ones with the purchasing experience.
[01:06:01]
Exactly.
Exactly.
[01:06:03]
We’d like to thank you our wonderful
listeners, as well as our guest,
[01:06:05]
Heather Ewing,
owner of Abstract Commercial Real Estate.
[01:06:08]
Heather, thank you so much
for being on the show.
[01:06:10]
Thank you for having me.
It was a true joy.
[01:06:12]
This is cool.
We’re going to do this again.
[01:06:13]
We will most definitely. In a post Covid world.
[01:06:17]
Find this airing locally on 103.5
[01:06:20]
Wednesdays at 1:00p.m., Sundays at 2:00 p.m.,
[01:06:23]
as well as at SunPrairieMediaCenter.com
Past episodes, of course,
[01:06:28]
and this one can be found
[01:06:29]
morning, noon, and night at the podcast
[01:06:31]
link found at DrawInCustomers.com.
[01:06:34]
Thank you for listening.
We’ll see you next week.
[01:06:36]
I want you to stay awesome.
[01:06:37]
And if you do nothing else,
enjoy your business
