Be Your Own Bank

[00:00:00.000] – Speaker 1
You have found Authentic Business Adventures, the business program that brings you the struggle stories and triumphant successes of business owners across the land. We’re locally underwritten by the Bank of Sun Prairie. My name is James Kademan, entrepreneur, speaker, and helpful coach to small business owners across the country. And today we’re welcoming/preparing to learn from Drew White, the founder of IBC. Drew was working with Create Tailwind. So, Drew, how are you doing today?

[00:00:26.770] – Speaker 1
James, thanks for having me, man. I’m doing good. Busy day, a lot of life changes, but I’m having a great day.

[00:00:32.570] – Speaker 2
Sweet. Did you say a lot of life changes?

[00:00:34.670] – Speaker 1
A lot of life changes, yeah.

[00:00:35.950] – Speaker 2
Just today.

[00:00:37.350] – Speaker 1
Well, I mean, just things up coming at the family. All right. I’m trying to get prepared. Get prepared. Nice.

[00:00:42.510] – Speaker 2
All good stuff, I imagine or hope?

[00:00:44.320] – Speaker 1
All good stuff. Yeah, we’re going to head off in an RV adventure full time.

[00:00:49.450] – Speaker 2
That’s the whole family?

[00:00:51.060] – Speaker 1
Whole family. 6 to 12 months. We got about two weeks as of this recording left till we go. So we’re just trying to get it done. All right. So you have kids, I imagine?

[00:01:03.840] – Speaker 1
Yeah. We got a five and an eight year old and a dog.

[00:01:07.560] – Speaker 2
Yeah. Wife, dog, five year old, eight year old, you and I imagine whatever equipment you need to make sure you can do your job on the road.

[00:01:17.670] – Speaker 1
Yeah. We got to get a satellite for the WiFi, but we heard campgrounds don’t have good WiFi.

[00:01:25.330] – Speaker 2
Right.

[00:01:26.210] – Speaker 1
Yeah.

[00:01:26.720] – Speaker 2
They get that one pipe coming in, they share it with 500 people.

[00:01:29.430] – Speaker 1
Yeah, exactly.

[00:01:30.820] – Speaker 2
Everybody’s trying to watch Netflix on a rainy day.

[00:01:32.650] – Speaker 1
Stream Netflix on those apparently.

[00:01:35.290] – Speaker 2
Got you. Interesting. All right, so where are you headed to first?

[00:01:39.230] – Speaker 1
Probably actually Missouri just to visit some friends. And then we said we got to make this fun for the kids. And someone told us Santa Claus, Indiana has a place called Holiday World, and it’s like adventure, amusement park. So we’re like, we’ll stay there two weeks, make sure the kids realize this is going to be fun. Oh, wow. All right. Go see friends for a few days, and then we’re going to head straight there. Actually, the real answer is the first place we’re going to camp is right outside our city of Omaha to make sure we can handle it.

[00:02:09.430] – Speaker 2
The first night, you’re like, Nope, we’re going home.

[00:02:14.700] – Speaker 1
We were like, We’re moving back home. Okay, so we couldn’t handle five days.

[00:02:19.050] – Speaker 2
That is funny. The first day. You don’t have to deal with the first day with the kids saying that we’re there yet.

[00:02:24.030] – Speaker 1
Yes, exactly. It’s a short trip. We set up a practice. And honestly, I need a lot of practice backing the camper in. So that’s where I’m pretty weak.

[00:02:32.890] – Speaker 2
I have to admit, I’ve never stayed in a camper, or at least not many times, never in my own. But one of the most exciting things or most entertaining things when I was a kid, because we would always stay in a tent, was we would sit in the tent with the door open and we would just watch the campers back up.

[00:02:50.290] – Speaker 2
Because as a kid, you didn’t have a whole lot to do in some of these places just seemed like golf courses. They didn’t have any play equipment. It was just a big grassy field. So you could see all the campers trying to back up. So you’d get there Friday afternoon and you just eat your hot dog or brat whatever. You’re watching campers back up, hit trees, yell at wives and husbands and want to disown their family as they’re backing up.

[00:03:16.070] – Speaker 1
My friends that I’ll be the talk of the campground. Everybody’s going to be watching me, which is like, that’s not helping me. It’s just putting more pressure on them. It’s like, yeah, everybody’s going to be watching you back in, buddy, because they’re going to laugh and be like, he’s a newbie.

[00:03:30.190] – Speaker 2
Oh, funny. It’s interesting, because when I was a kid, that was a long time ago, this was pre backup camera. Now, I think with backup cameras, it’s probably easy.

[00:03:40.840] – Speaker 1
I need to get one. I don’t have one on ours.

[00:03:43.530] – Speaker 2
Oh, dude, that’s the best $15 you’ll spend. We got one on the truck, but nothing on the camper. So we need one on the camper.

[00:03:49.800] – Speaker 2
So it’s a trailer?

[00:03:51.260] – Speaker 1
Yeah, it’s a fifth wheel.

[00:03:53.380] – Speaker 2
I don’t think it would hurt.

[00:03:56.170] – Speaker 1
Yeah, it’s probably smart.

[00:03:57.870] – Speaker 2
I don’t think it hurt. But at any rate, tell us about the Create Tailwind and what you have going on.

[00:04:03.680] – Speaker 1
Yeah. So we teach something called the Infinite Banking Concept. And it’s really using, I would say, a unique vehicle, specifically designed, whole life insurance through a mutual insurance company. And really, the premise of it is using it like a bank for your family or for your business. And so we work a lot with business owners, a lot with real estate investors, show them how to use it really pretty much like you would a bank, almost replacing a checking savings account. All right. It benefits to that. And that’s really what we focus on teaching people. It’s really our main thing. And the guy that really founded our company used to be a financial advisor and didn’t really enjoy that world. It wasn’t for him and found his way to this and really liked teaching people this and the freedom that… And there’s a lot of freedom with it and a lot of variability, just different ways that you can use the system. They were focused on helping people create financial freedom as well using this.

[00:05:03.910] – Speaker 2
All right. So I got a ton of questions that I want to ask you.

[00:05:08.010] – Speaker 1
Oh, yeah.

[00:05:08.910] – Speaker 2
Well, let’s get started with just the entry level. How did you get into this?

[00:05:13.660] – Speaker 1
Yeah. So I might have to back up a ways, but I was a Pediatric Oncology Nurse for 10 years. Wow. And so I start my story there because I graduated with $150,000 plus of student loan debt.

[00:05:29.310] – Speaker 2
Oh.

[00:05:29.780] – Speaker 1
Yeah. I didn’t really know anything about money, obviously, because that was probably a terrible financial decision. And so I was making about 40,000 a year around there, probably a little less, to be honest. And I remember my dad, he had no financial background, was a pastor, but he was worried about me. So he sits me down and he teaches me some Dave Ramsey budgeting comms. I’m not as big of a Dave guy anymore, but it kickstarted me. And so he sits me down and I realized like, half my income is going to these student loans that I took. What am I doing? So I do credit Dave with really lighting my financial fire, if you will. And so that sent me on a path about 10 years of just really finding out that I was entrepreneurial, finding out that I was willing to try stuff. And I figured out I’m very family oriented. And so I realized I don’t really want to do this nursing thing forever because you got to work weekends and holidays and the paid is not that great. I did like the job. And so I tried different things. I tried flipping mobile homes.

[00:06:33.380] – Speaker 1
I tried some day trading and just some other things like that. And you always knew I had… So I got on debt quickly and a bunch of nurses would always ask me for help with finances. And I was like, I didn’t really want to go to be a financial adviser. So I was like, Well, I’ll just help them on the side here and there. And then randomly through a podcast, I heard these guys talking about this concept called becoming your own banker or banking concept. And so I was like, That’s interesting. Read up on it, met with them, thought, I don’t know. I’ve always been taught whole life insurance is a bad thing. I’m not really open to this. And then I wrote, I read on it. I ended up halfway through it. I closed this book and I turned to my wife and I was like, This is what I want to do with our money. But I also want to teach people. I don’t know why. I just know it. And then I haven’t really looked back since then. And I even just about a year and a half ago, let my nursing license expire.

[00:07:23.180] – Speaker 2
Wow. All right. Let’s go back because you touched on some very interesting things.

[00:07:29.650] – Speaker 1
Did.

[00:07:30.540] – Speaker 2
You say flipping mobile homes?

[00:07:34.430] – Speaker 1
I knew that’s where.

[00:07:36.190] – Speaker 2
You had it. Buying and selling.

[00:07:38.550] – Speaker 1
That’s why I was like, oh, mobile home. Yes, flipped mobile homes. So what I would do is I would find them cheap, and then you can basically turn around and provide financing for them and sell them as a handyman special. And there’s a lot of mobile home people who are handy. Banks don’t really want to loan to a mobile home that needs fixed up. And so I would take a down payment and then basically I’d hold the note on it. I still have a few notes out there right now. All right. So I knew I wanted to get into real estate. That’s what everybody said, the wealthy were doing. And once I got out of debt, I was like, Okay, now what? I don’t know anything about building wealth. I have this Dave Ramsey chicken and rice and ramen. I was like, it’s scarcity. So I was like, It’s scarcity. And so I started reading about real estate. Well, I was still scared of debt, didn’t know good debt versus bad debt. So I thought I’ll just do mobile homes. I heard someone talking about it, and it’s low cost of entry. I could buy a home for 500 bucks.

[00:08:39.080] – Speaker 1
Really? Yeah. Almost all my homes I bought for under 1,000, but there was two that I paid extra for and they ended up being for a good reason. They were really nice homes.

[00:08:51.220] – Speaker 2
I.

[00:08:51.520] – Speaker 1
Could flip quickly. But yeah. So then I just was like, I’ll just try this out. Low cost of entry. And it was a good business model. I couldn’t scale it well, so I slowly backed away from it. And now we’re looking at different real estate at the time. My wife and I.

[00:09:04.830] – Speaker 2
The mobile home thing just is intriguing to me because it’s so like the barrier to entry, it’s so cheap. Relatively speaking.

[00:09:15.400] – Speaker 1
I.

[00:09:16.170] – Speaker 2
Guess, some people, depending on where you’re at financially, 500 bucks may be a big deal. But from an investment standpoint, $500 really isn’t that big of a deal, especially if you’re buying a place to live.

[00:09:28.440] – Speaker 1
Yeah, right.

[00:09:29.180] – Speaker 2
So were these places in Omaha?

[00:09:32.020] – Speaker 1
Yeah, they were in mobile home parks, mobile home communities. Okay. And to be honest, later I realized, oh, I should have been talking to these managers and the owners about if their parks were for sale. Now, parks are like a hot commodity.

[00:09:44.380] – Speaker 2
Interesting.

[00:09:45.650] – Speaker 1
I didn’t know that at the time, but yeah. So you can buy them in mobile home communities. There are people who will find some on private land, and those are really good deals because you get the land, too. But mobile home communities, you do have to get approved to do this. And some managers don’t like you there. But if you go up and you explain, well, actually, my goal is to get you a great tenant like I’m. So I’m going to help you. And it’s really a win win. And if you can explain that well to them, it’s fine. Early on, I was stumbling and having a hard time. So I will say that’s a low cost venture. I think I started with about $5,000 was my… I was like, okay, this is my budget, $5,000. I’m going to just try this. I definitely learned some lessons, especially on my first one that I wouldn’t repeat. And you can lose some money if you over repair a mobile home. So you don’t want to over repair. That’s a.

[00:10:36.810] – Speaker 2
Huge mistake. Over repair. Don’t make it too nice.

[00:10:39.340] – Speaker 1
No, exactly. You want it livable. You want it livable. As long as you’re upfront and honest and say this needs work. This is a handyman special. It’s not like I’m telling you this is one thing and it’s another. In fact, I would actually go out of my way and tell people like, this outlet doesn’t work. This one doesn’t work. This leaks here. Then just let them know you got some work here. No one ever called me, thank goodness, and said that I sold them a bad home because I could be pretty upfront.

[00:11:09.070] – Speaker 2
What’s interesting about this is that you are essentially financing these. So you were being the bank for M. And you’re like, banks have lawyers and insurance and stuff like this, and you’re a dude. So tell me how that worked. Yeah. So none of this I would.

[00:11:25.740] – Speaker 1
Have done without a mentor. I hired a guy who I had followed his podcast and watched his YouTube videos and everything. And his name is John Fedra, phenomenal person, would take my phone call at any time. He would look at pictures of the homes I’d send. And so he also provided me with the resources, like the documents that I would need. And then I had a local attorney look him over that I knew. But yeah, then I just, thanks to him, was able to set it up and I had even a trust set up and all these things I wouldn’t have known without John. And yeah, so it’s basically… And that’s what I would tell the tenant when they buy it is, you think of me like a bank, I’d say. So if your water heater goes out, you don’t call the bank, call the handyman, repair it. And so just to set that so they wouldn’t understand, they’re not renting the home from me.

[00:12:19.660] – Speaker 2
They really.

[00:12:20.400] – Speaker 1
Do own it. They’re just paying me back for it. And I’ve, thankfully, never had any calls for repairs. I had a guy that struggled with payments during COVID and gave him some. I just gave him a few months off and put it on the back end for him and try to be… Even though.

[00:12:38.260] – Speaker 2
I’m Sam the bank, I try not to be a jerk. I suppose there’s delicate balance, right? Yeah. Banks don’t necessarily have the opportunity. But depending upon where you’re at financially, maybe you have less opportunity, right? I need the money because I.

[00:12:52.310] – Speaker 1
Need the.

[00:12:52.870] – Speaker 2
Eat thing. Yeah. Interesting. I’m just trying to wrap my head around. You got a $500 trailer house, whatever.

[00:13:00.080] – Speaker 1
Yeah.

[00:13:00.560] – Speaker 2
You’re selling it for a few grand or what are you selling it for? I could.

[00:13:04.590] – Speaker 1
Tell you through some real ones. Yeah. My first one was I did not do the note thing because that’s the one I made a big mistake on. They were going to give it to me for free because they needed to have basically nothing on the balance sheet for this couple that was going to move into living community or one of those elderly living communities. So they couldn’t really have any assets or anything like that. So they were like, Well, it needs a lot of work. We’ll just give it to you. Well, then they decided, Well, actually, we want $500. I was desperate to get in the game. So I was like, All right, let’s do it. And then turned out… Somehow, I don’t know if my nose wasn’t working, but I didn’t realize the home was full of dog urine the first time I went through there. Oh, no. I walked all these handyman through there and they’re telling me, Oh, 7,000 to 10,000 to repair. I told you, my budgets like 5,000. I’m like, Oh, no. It was not a handyman special. So much more work. The only thing I had going for it is it was a double wide.

[00:14:00.210] – Speaker 1
So for anybody, no mobile homes, there’s single wide, which is just narrow and double wide, which is double the space. And I got lucky. I found a guy. Also, I told them they could keep some things there and I would get rid of it, which I later learned is a huge mistake. They took advantage, left me a ton of junk that I then had to pay for.

[00:14:19.300] – Speaker 2
To get it.

[00:14:19.860] – Speaker 1
All out. And when I did that, someone broke windows when they were hauling things. I mean, horrible. So I had a painter. Also, this is funny of that one. I had a painter I hired. My wife and I are going out of town and I bring him the paint and I said, I’ll pay for the paint. I’ll pay you. Bring him the paint, come back. He stole my paint. He didn’t paint the home.

[00:14:39.040] – Speaker 2
No, really?

[00:14:40.090] – Speaker 1
I would have paid him so much more to paint the home and steal the paint. Oh, my gosh. Who steals paint? Who steals paint. You have to be in a pretty low situation in life. But anyway, I obviously didn’t vet him well. That home, I had to pay lot rent and things like that. I ended up probably being around $15,000 to $16,000 in it, and I sold it for 6,500. So I did come out okay. And then from there, I had somewhere where a lot of times what was going on is on the note, basically when someone was giving me a down payment, so I would always require down payment. And it would depend on the quality of the home. Like, if I knew it, lean a lot of work, I’m not going to make someone pay a high down payment. But usually my goal was the down payment would put me back to break even. Got you. Then I’m good on the monthly payments after that. That was typical. So nd then if you’re paying for five, six, seven years, obviously your return on investment is pretty actually high, even though it’s a cheap mobile home.

[00:15:38.560] – Speaker 2
What are payments? Are payments $4 a month or what? Seven years out of $5,000 or something like that?

[00:15:47.420] – Speaker 1
No, it’s like… And so the other way is when you advertise, like, if I told you, my math might be wrong here, but you had to pay me $22,000 over five years, you might block at that. But if I say you got to pay me $300 a month for the next five years.

[00:16:01.980] – Speaker 2
Got you. Okay. Then they’re like, Well, rent is 1200 across the street.

[00:16:06.480] – Speaker 1
Yeah. So the notes are anywhere from 3 to 500 depending on the home. Got you. And also it depends on the community. If it was a really nice community, you can get more. If it’s not a nice thing, you can get less.

[00:16:17.300] – Speaker 2
All right. Yeah.

[00:16:18.720] – Speaker 1
So there’s a lot of nuances that you wouldn’t imagine with a mobile home. And then you get to meet some fun people.

[00:16:25.870] – Speaker 2
Yeah, I bet. It’s interesting. I’ve interviewed a lot of real estate people just to make money off real estate of some kind, right? Whether that’s apartments, flipping houses, flipping land, whatever. So the mobile home thing is always something in the back of my head. I’m like, How does that work?

[00:16:42.270] – Speaker 1
Yeah, I know. You can.

[00:16:43.010] – Speaker 2
Make money at it? But it sounds like you can.

[00:16:45.050] – Speaker 1
To be honest, that’s how I found my way to it. Because when I heard this John Pedro guy, I was just like, Nobody’s making all the money at mobile homes. So then I was like, I got to hear it now. I got to hear what he’s saying. How are you making money flipping a mobile home? Then I started doing it.

[00:16:59.710] – Speaker 2
Yeah, that is cool. Okay. So you say, Hey, the mobile home thing is cool. It’s just not my jam, though. What was the next one?

[00:17:09.540] – Speaker 1
Yeah. So before that, I did day trading. Then I did the mobile homes. The day trading led into mobile homes because I realized I can’t just day trade and not have some other income because it was really tough mentally to do that. So I was like, Okay, real estate. That’s what everybody says. So I was trying out things. Then the mobile home thing that led me to the becoming your own banker. I found that around that time. That’s really like our infinite banking, what we talked about. And I found like, Oh, my gosh, I’m really passionate about this mobile homes. I’m not so passionate about. Also, my wife and I, we were like, we could probably do an apartment complex and something like that and upgrade a little bit. I haven’t found one yet. We’re still looking, to be honest. But that’s something we’ve been working on. So then I found my way out to get up to the infinite banking thing. And then I was like, after a few months, I knew this is what I wanted to do. I had never had that feeling in a career before. Wow.

[00:18:04.950] – Speaker 2
So then I was like, oh. Even after being 150,000 debt in college? Yeah. You’d think that you’d like that one, or you’d hope that you’d like that one.

[00:18:12.430] – Speaker 1
You’d hope, you would. But no, I’m not a huge… If you want to get me on a tangent, I’m not a huge fan of our current system, the way this works, where you’re 18 and you make a lifelong, terrible decision like that. I agree. I don’t really know how you’re supposed to know when you’re 18 what you’re going to like when you’re 30. I think it’s not really set up well for a lot of people. I obviously fell into that trap and I’m hoping to help others not do that because I set myself behind by at least five years by doing that.

[00:18:45.760] – Speaker 2
I can still remember being on a bus when I was in college long time ago, and there was a guy that I knew that he was an older guy, but he was going to college. And by older, I mean, I was.

[00:19:00.930] – Speaker 1
Whatever.

[00:19:01.750] – Speaker 2
19, 20, something like that. So he was probably like 30 or something because back then it’s just like a seven year old. It’s like, oh, my gosh, look at that kid. He’s 12. So in my mind, he’s 60, but I’m sure he wasn’t.

[00:19:14.880] – Speaker 1
At all. 65 and AARP.

[00:19:16.520] – Speaker 2
Whatever he was, he’s like, Dude, you got to invest. And I was working three jobs, going to school full time, doing everything I could to pay for rent, college, and if I was lucky, ramen or something. The joke was I was going to school to pay for gas insurance so that I could drive to work to pay for all that stuff. Anyway, I was like, I’ll get to it. And I’m like, Man, if I would have listened to that clown on the bus.

[00:19:45.430] – Speaker 1
Gosh, it would.

[00:19:46.520] – Speaker 2
Have been a different world. Anyways, interesting. How did the day trading go with you? Were you good at it?

[00:19:53.550] – Speaker 1
What?

[00:19:53.740] – Speaker 2
Were you good at it?

[00:19:55.220] – Speaker 1
That’s the thing. I was good whenever I had something else. I t was okay. I would say I was good and bad. Like I said earlier, I was trying to find a way out of nursing, so I’m like, I really did enjoy it. I realized I actually had always had this interest in money and things like that and the stock market. I even had a friend tell me, he was in finance and he was like, you were always asking me questions. I was always curious why you decided to be a nurse. I’m like, you know.

[00:20:23.680] – Speaker 2
It would.

[00:20:25.920] – Speaker 1
Have been helpful. But anyway, so I would do well when I was a nurse. And what I would do is I started working part time and doing this, and it was fine. But then I got confident and thought, okay, I’m so good. I can quit my nursing thing and do this. And when I do that, that would be too mentally taxing. It was like now you’re not thinking about the right things, which is probably a good life lesson. You’re not thinking about doing the right processes.

[00:20:49.190] – Speaker 2
Got you.

[00:20:50.010] – Speaker 1
With that, you just got to follow your trading rules. Instead of thinking about my trading rules, I’d be thinking about money and I’d be so obsessed with it, which actually really led to uncover some money mindset issues that I later figured out. So I’d be up really far and then I’d be down really far and come back to break even. And so that’s when I was like, okay, I realized I got to have something else. And I actually made my way back to it. It is something I say that I want to do again someday. But I do love what I do so much right now that it’s like… That probably may have been my number two passion. So until I’ve done this longer, maybe someday I’ll do it again.

[00:21:29.160] – Speaker 2
But all right?

[00:21:30.990] – Speaker 1
It sounds crazy, but it taught me more about myself than anything I’ve ever done because it’s so mentally taxing. And you got to be on your A game mentally when you’re there. All right.

[00:21:41.550] – Speaker 2
It’s interesting that you mentioned the mindset around money because I feel like there’s a lot of people that even myself included, I guess myself up until maybe, I don’t know, five, eight years ago, something like that, that phrase, your money mindset, whatever, would have never I would have been like, What are you talking about? But I remember going through some sales training and they were talking about that, how that can interfere with you making a sale because you’re like, Hold on to this money. It’s so precious.

[00:22:12.530] – Speaker 1
Yeah, and they can feel it. Yeah.

[00:22:14.750] – Speaker 2
And it was interesting when I’m listening to this guy talk and I’m like, What are you talking about? And then he talks more about the way that you were essentially taught or raised about money, where it wasn’t just sit in this desk, let me tell you about money. It was just how did your parents treat money? What was their feeling about money? How did your friends, your friends, parents, all this stuff. Oh, my gosh. I’ve been brainwashed. What happened? Tell me about what you discovered a little bit about yourself that was a benefit to going through all this.

[00:22:47.050] – Speaker 1
Yeah. So it’s funny. I just actually had lunch with my sister right before this because to say goodbye lunch. And we talked a little bit about that, about our childhood growing up. And so, yeah, I just discovered that I had real, I would say scarcity around it. I didn’t see money and life as being abundant and that you can go create more. I’d always be worried about holding on to the few dollars that I did have and how to not let those escape my grasp and penny. I mean, we haven’t gotten this, but I also extreme couponded at one point when I was getting out of debt the Dave Ramsey way.

[00:23:22.300] – Speaker 2
That’s awesome.

[00:23:23.670] – Speaker 1
And so I was very scarcity. And it took me back. So I started writing. Actually, one exercise that listeners might find helpful is I had a mentor tell me to write down the phrase money is, and then just write 5, 10 minutes without thinking, just really writing. First things that come to mind. And it was really interesting because I do have more of a religious background. And so one of the first things that came up was like, money is the root of all evil.

[00:23:49.990] – Speaker 2
Oh, sure.

[00:23:51.450] – Speaker 1
And actually, the real versus the love of money is the root of all evil. But in my circles, that was left out. It was always money is the root is the root of all evil. And so I had really internalized that if you have money, people. So sometimes I would feel like I was sabotaging myself. And it’s like, well, yeah, if you think you’re going to be evil when you make money, you might be self sabotaging subconscious level. And just things like that. And I grew up in a great home, but money wasn’t probably our priority, I’d say. And we were middle income, but my dad was a pastor. And so there were times I can remember certain stories of just certain shoes I was wearing versus other kids. And those are the things that really helped me see, oh, man, I got some growth in this area. And the other thing that was huge is I just realized I wasn’t taught about it, probably what you were saying, no one really teaches you in high school or junior high. You weren’t taught about it. And then all of a sudden you’re supposed to figure out how to create more of it.

[00:24:51.850] – Speaker 1
And you’re like, yeah, good luck.

[00:24:55.020] – Speaker 1
But no one’s taught me anything. Nothing in our education system. No one that I grew up around taught me anything about money. So there’s a lot there. I could probably go on for an hour about that.

[00:25:03.780] – Speaker 2
Yeah, interesting. Even baby squares get taught how to get nuts, right?

[00:25:07.100] – Speaker 1
Yeah, exactly. Interesting. I like that one.

[00:25:12.580] – Speaker 2
So let’s talk about the being your own bank thing because that’s always been… I’ve heard about it. I’m curious about it. So let’s dive into that.

[00:25:23.180] – Speaker 1
Yeah. I think I mentioned I was pretty skeptical, I would say, and not really open to it because it does involve whole life insurance. It’s not traditional whole life insurance. So where a traditional guy would sit you down and be like, James, how much death benefit do you want? So we’re opposite. I’d say we’re not, we are. We’re looking at how much cash value do you want to get into this system? And then the reason are is that there’s benefits that you get from that, which then will spit out a death benefit. And so the benefits are you get tax free guaranteed growth, depends on your insurance company, but it’s around 3 % to 4 % right now. And then it can never be that growth, it can never be interrupted. So when you put that money to work, because of the way the contract is designed, if it’s set up right, the money actually grows inside your policy and then it grows outside of it when you put it to use for business or real estate because there’s a death benefit attached to it. And then you get the dividends. It’s like I said, tax free.

[00:26:23.110] – Speaker 1
Anytime you use the money, it’s not counting as income. And then there’s also ways where you can really structure it to be even more tax advantage. And so it took me a little bit to wrap my mind around it. It’s sometimes complex. But once I started to get it, I was like, oh, man, I wish more people understood. It’s like everything in my life where I was like, I wish people taught us about money. I wish people told you to wait to go to college and think a little bit more. And it’s like one of those things where I’m like, I wish more people knew about this, but there’s a whole that are turned off the whole life. They don’t get to see that opportunity, I would say.

[00:26:57.920] – Speaker 2
It’s interesting because my perception of life insurance just as a whole comes from somewhat of a foundation or experience that I had when I first started my business. I first started my business in 2006. I remember going to networking groups and you go to this networking group and this life insurance salesperson is like, I want to meet you for coffee and learn more about your business. I’m like, Great. This guy wants to learn about my business. I go for coffee and he’s like, Tell me about your insurance. When do you think you’re going to die? How much is your house worth? Don’t you want to take care of your wife? And just then all this stuff. And I’m like, Whoa, I thought you wanted to learn about my business. So I just felt like this is a pool of sharks, and I don’t feel like swimming with them.

[00:27:46.080] – Speaker 1
So it’s.

[00:27:46.670] – Speaker 2
Just one of those, like, no, anytime somebody said whole life, they might as well just be making fun of my mom or something. I don’t want to talk to you anymore. So I’m curious because I’m like, They can’t all be lame. Yeah.

[00:28:00.520] – Speaker 1
So.

[00:28:01.610] – Speaker 2
If I’m lame.

[00:28:03.500] – Speaker 1
Or not, I’m not.

[00:28:04.940] – Speaker 2
No, right. Fair. Fair. The other thing is I had somebody… Man, this was quite a while ago. They were going through the math, and this is again, there was some salesy person. So my wall was up, I guess, as far as that goes. But I was looking at their math and I’m like, Shouldn’t I just invest the money instead of putting it into a whole life policy? Because I could get a better return.

[00:28:29.100] – Speaker 1
And part.

[00:28:29.700] – Speaker 2
Of my answer, I answered myself because I’m like, Well, did you invest it? No, I mean, there’s the discipline factor of saying you have to put your money in this thing. So can you touch on some of that?

[00:28:43.440] – Speaker 1
Yeah. So well, one thing I’ll tell you is funny. You said about taking you out. So I had a friend who this Northwestern Mutual guy asked him to golf, and I was like, I told him, I don’t think you should do that. And he’s like, Why? It’ll be free golf. And I was like, Because he’s trying to sell you something. That’s all. That’s what that situation is. Sure enough, my friend still had to pay for his golf, which he didn’t expect. And then the guy hounded him for weeks, told him he could do anything. And then he told him, I have a buddy who does this infinite banking thing. He’s like, Oh, I know all about infinite banking. I know about it. And so then once he got into the nuts and bolts, it turns out he didn’t know about it. He just knew about whole life insurance, which again, is very different than traditional whole life. But you are right. And that’s part of my job is I come up against that a lot. And to be honest, it’s funny because if I met myself five years ago, I wouldn’t listen to anything I had to say.

[00:29:36.480] – Speaker 2
That’s awesome. Because it’s.

[00:29:39.210] – Speaker 1
Like, Well, I thought a whole lot of people were scammers, too. And then it’s funny, the thing you’re talking about with if you had invested it. So that’s the other thing. The Dave Ramsey phrase out there is the by term, invest the rest. And I always find it interesting because a lot of times people get that first part, which makes him money by term. And he’s connected with a group that buys term.

[00:29:59.400] – Speaker 2
Oh, really? Yeah.

[00:30:01.490] – Speaker 1
That created that one of those phrases. But they often don’t invest the rest. They don’t ever actually do that. But the real answer I tell people is traditionally money wise, we’re talking about either or scenarios. So either put your money in this investment or you put it in your savings account, or you either put it in this investment or you put it in whole life. And so we have to shatter this thinking, I guess, in our world, or we try to shatter it because we’re actually saying still do what you’re talking about, still do both. So we’re saying just put your money in the whole life policy first because you’re going to get all those tax free guaranteed benefits. It’s protected or protected, all of those things. But then take that money and go use it to invest and grow your wealth outside of there because you’re now getting growth outside of the policy. Then you’re.

[00:30:50.000] – Speaker 2
Still getting that.

[00:30:50.670] – Speaker 1
Uninterrupted compounding that you can’t get anywhere else except for in whole life, at least not right now, where if you use your money… So if you took it out of a bank account, right, and they’re giving you 0.06 % interest. Yeah, right.

[00:31:03.720] – Speaker 2
If you’re lucky. Yeah, if you’re.

[00:31:05.450] – Speaker 1
Lucky, if you’re one of the rich ones and you’ve lost out on that compounding whenever you use that money, which was nothing. And in whole life it’s the exact opposite. You use that money and you still get that compounding, but you also still get to grow your wealth. So that’s where, like, in our company, we’re really big on showing business owners and real estate investors how to use this to create financial freedom, really, is our goal with it. There’s some people that they’ll tell you, go use this to finance a car and you can sell finance. And truth to be like, I will do that. I just did that with the RV that we purchased.

[00:31:39.390] – Speaker 2
Oh, nice. Yeah.

[00:31:41.490] – Speaker 1
And that’s because the bank was offering me 9 % over 12 years, which was like $22,000 for them. And I was like, I’m going to do this myself. But our big thing is really use it for your business and for real estate. And then it eventually becomes a retirement account long term, too.

[00:31:58.690] – Speaker 2
All right. I don’t know how to ask it other than how does it work? Yes.

[00:32:08.170] – Speaker 1
Typically, if someone was going to sit down with me… And you mean how it gets set up and all that? Yeah, I.

[00:32:12.880] – Speaker 2
Guess how just numbers wise, I guess what… I mean, it’s not free, right? So people have to pay something in and they have to pay something in routinely. And then I imagine you can’t just start like, Hey, Tuesday, I put the money in. Wednesday, I’m going to borrow it back. Okay. Yeah. No, those are good question. There has to be some time frame that has to be in place. Yeah.

[00:32:34.500] – Speaker 1
So because there is an insurance side of it. So if someone gets set up, they have to get an exam and all of that. And then but once they do pay that first payment, if they’re set up to pay annually, which most people are, once that first check clears, so we tell people about two weeks, it’s actually really highly liquid. So they can get that money within one to three business days, really. And typically it’s more like one. I’ve never had to go more than one and a half days. And the insurance company doesn’t ask questions. So they’re not like, James, what are you going to use this money for? Like a bank where you got to give them your records, your fourth grade report card and everything. So they are very liquid and they don’t care. So you tell them where to send the money and they send it and then you use it for whatever. And then the other question about how much to put into it, that is really just case by case. I never sit down with someone and say, this won’t be beneficial for you unless you put 100,000 in. We have people that do as little as 5 to 10,000 all the way up to literally a million and more a year into it.

[00:33:44.630] – Speaker 1
And it just depends on each person’s goals and their situation.

[00:33:48.640] – Speaker 2
So.

[00:33:49.470] – Speaker 1
We get a lot of people who do 100,000, 50,000. That’s fairly common. But I just had someone in the military just last week who he just wanted to start. He had some credit card debt. He said, I want to do 6,000 a year and I want to use this for my credit. I’m going to pay off my credit card and pay myself those payments back. It’s really variable. How would.

[00:34:10.740] – Speaker 2
That scenario work? I guess versus him just paying directly to the credit card. Right.

[00:34:17.170] – Speaker 1
So he could do that, right. But the banking part is where he wanted to basically make that interest off of himself. So he’s already comfortable with the, I think it was like whatever it was, 250 a month payment. And then they’re getting a certain amount of interest. So he did set up the contract, but then he paid that off, took a loan, paid that off. And then he treated himself like the credit card company now and started making that 250 a month payment back to himself. So he’s now making the interest that he was off of the credit card company, which may be a little complex to start here with your listeners. Yeah.

[00:34:51.550] – Speaker 2
I’m like, oh, my gosh, my brain is exploding.

[00:34:53.960] – Speaker 1
Yeah. That’s a lot to throw out, especially without drawing it out. But that was just a strategy he wanted to use. So we worked on it. My point being that you can start with as little and as much as you want, really.

[00:35:04.490] – Speaker 2
All right. I guess the next question. I’m 45. So me looking for life insurance now was like, Dude, you got a foot in the grave. We don’t want to insure you. No. We’re just like, We’ll give you life insurance. It’s only $10,000 a month.

[00:35:22.020] – Speaker 1
You’re talking about term, right?

[00:35:24.960] – Speaker 2
Yeah, right.

[00:35:26.020] – Speaker 1
So for term, that’s probably the case. In terms of whole life insurance, though, you’re actually at a great age. When you’re in your 40s, that’s a good age. If you’re a woman, guys out there, I’m sorry to tell you, women get better rates than us. They’re expected to live longer. But 40s is a great range. You’re going to get good rates on whole life. Even we have clients, early 50s that still get pretty good rates if they’re healthy. That’ll depend on them. And even if they’re not, there’s lots of ways to do this because our focus isn’t so much on insurance. It’s a nice benefit. Our focus is on that cash value and using it like a bank. So if you have business partners, then you have an insurable interest in them. If you have a key employee, you can insure them and control that policy. If you have a spouse or kids or grandkids. So there’s lots of ways that we help people still set up this system, even if we get a guy who’s 70 and not going to get good rates, not healthy, well, he might have some grandkids. And then that’s nice, too, because he can actually pass those policies down tax free to them.

[00:36:34.830] – Speaker 2
Oh, really? Okay.

[00:36:37.050] – Speaker 1
And say you have a grandkid or a kid that’s entrepreneurial, they don’t want to go to college. Then instead of using that money for college, they can use it to start a business or buy their first. So yeah, lots of flexibility. So can.

[00:36:52.450] – Speaker 2
We talk numbers just using round, maybe even semi unrealistic numbers? Let’s just say for ease, I want to stick $100 a month in or $1,000 a month or whatever is realistic ish, but easy number to think about the math with.

[00:37:08.690] – Speaker 1
Sure.

[00:37:08.870] – Speaker 2
My little arcane brain. Yeah. And you.

[00:37:12.620] – Speaker 1
Mean, so what it would look like sticking a number into the contract and then using it?

[00:37:19.950] – Speaker 2
Yes.

[00:37:23.100] – Speaker 1
I’ll give you a real life example of someone that I work for. Perfect. Okay. I’ll try to keep the name out to protect.

[00:37:32.400] – Speaker 2
The innocent. So I.

[00:37:36.250] – Speaker 1
Have a client he puts in, I’ll just do a round number, he puts in 100,000 a year. So he does that. And then he actually, he’s a land investor, so he prefers not to work with banks. And now that’s not everybody. We have some clients who what they’ll do is use the money in their system for a down payment and still use banks. Even though interest rates are high right now, they’re still historically cheap. So that’s still a good route. So what he does, though, is he takes the money out from his policy. He takes a loan. That’s what they call it. They call it a policy loan. And so he takes that out, lends it to his business, to his land business. And then he basically creates now a hard money loan between himself and his land business. So he charges it. And he can have a couple of deals a month. I think he had three the other day and it was going to cost him $30,000. And we’ll just stick with round numbers. It was around that. He takes a loan for $30,000 out of that. He charges himself an interest rate that’s fair.

[00:38:34.970] – Speaker 1
He has to meet certain rules and every state has different rules. So I think he’s charging himself about 18 % right now. And then he has his business using other people’s money to pay that loan back. And then as that loan gets paid back, he can go redeploy that money again. And then his deals come up. So he just basically has his own bank. He just borrows against his policy constantly. And the question that comes up is like, well, why would you do that? It seems sillier than just using a bank. And that’s why I would go back to that compounding interest that you get in that policy while you’re using that money. And then the other benefit is he gets to deduct that, he pays back to himself. All right.

[00:39:12.680] – Speaker 2
So can you… Let’s talk about this. Let’s just break this down a little bit. He throws $100,000 into the policy. He can then borrow that $100,000 from the policy? So that’s a good question.

[00:39:23.750] – Speaker 1
So the insurance side of it, when we talk about the traditional whole life insurance, that’s.

[00:39:28.700] – Speaker 2
Where people don’t like.

[00:39:30.040] – Speaker 1
Traditional whole life insurance, and we have to set it up a specific way designed to get you higher cash value. So you can’t get 100 in year one, but the traditional guy, you’d get 2 % of what you put in in year one. Yeah, right?

[00:39:45.450] – Speaker 2
Yeah, we can get you.

[00:39:46.520] – Speaker 1
60 % to 65 % in year one. And the reason why we work with business owners is they understand there’s a cost to starting a business. So there’s.

[00:39:55.860] – Speaker 2
A cost to starting.

[00:39:56.580] – Speaker 1
This banking business, and that’s the cost is you’ll take You’ll have a cash drag in year one. But then what happens is that uninterrupted compounding takes place. So you start putting in a dollar into your system after a couple of years and you turn around and you can loan yourself a dollar 25 per dollar you’re putting in. And it.

[00:40:13.380] – Speaker 2
Gets really good.

[00:40:14.150] – Speaker 1
Over time. And so if you can think long term and look at year 10, when I put in 100,000 and I immediately lock in that I can loan myself 125,000 and that keeps happening and gets better every year, I’m more than willing to take that cash drag in that first year. But it is something people who think short term have a hard time with it. I guess that.

[00:40:34.610] – Speaker 2
When I would talk to typical whole life guys years ago, I haven’t talked to one in a long time, they would say you’re paying your policy and then eventually your policy has enough of investment where the policy itself is paying for the premium, maybe? Sure. Yeah. I don’t know if I’m using that phrasing correctly. No, it’s good. Yeah. So you’re saying essentially this guy throws $100,000 in on day one or week two or whatever. Fairly recently, he can pull out $65,000 to essentially borrow from himself from his policy? Yeah, because he’s the owner.

[00:41:10.090] – Speaker 1
Of that policy. And if you look at the writing, the insurance company doesn’t own it. You own it. So yes, he can. There was something there you said I was going to touch on.

[00:41:22.170] – Speaker 2
The premium? Because I imagine something’s got to pay for the… That’s what.

[00:41:28.930] – Speaker 1
I’m saying. That’s where I would say we’re different in terms of we’re really big on we can show people and draw them out individually how you can really create financial freedom really within five years if you’re taking this and going in by cash flow assets and then putting other people… So then when you do that, you’re using other people’s money to pay that back. And so that within five years, basically, you’re not even paying those premiums. And so I have a client, it’s really funny, she’s doing amazing. So she’s putting $100,000 also, and she bought an Airbnb. She’s making 25 % cash on cash right now. Or actually, no, I’m sorry, she’s at 50 % because she put in $25,000. She put in $25,000 in the deal, and she’s making 12,500 a year. So she’s at 50 %. And she’s worried about her premiums long term. And I was like, in year one, you’re already like, you’re getting there, you’re at 12,500. And so we show people how if you keep… And she didn’t put the full amount in yet. She’s only used 25,000 of that. So we show people how our goal is actually to teach people you can use real estate, business, whatever, to have other people pay that back.

[00:42:41.980] – Speaker 1
So you’re not even going to be paying your premiums long term. And in fact, hopefully, our goal is to get people where they have more of these, more than one, if we coach them well enough. So that’s really our focus is using it to create freedom and then even expanding your system and do it even further. All right.

[00:42:59.650] – Speaker 2
So you’re not even really concentrating on the death benefit. The death benefit is just so that it’s an insurance policy.

[00:43:07.730] – Speaker 1
Yeah. I call it icing on the cake or an ancillary benefit. And the thing about it is a lot of the term people is like, oh, well, you’re under insured, you need more insurance than this. But what happens is if you do this right, like I’m talking about doing where you’re really compounding over time, you’ll end up with more insurance than you ever need because you’re going to expand your system if you’re using it to create financial freedom and you keep doing those steps. Well, then you’re going to have to take out more policies. And so the guy that created this concept, Nelson Ash, he doesn’t say he created it. He says he discovered it. He since passed. I think around the time of his passing, he was at about 30 of these or something like that. Thirty policies? Yeah. He had businesses and he was passing these down. Even the guy that is the head of our firm, Jim Oliver, I think he’s around… I think last time I heard him say he was high 20s. Wow.

[00:44:04.410] – Speaker 2
All right. Holy cow. That’s almost like you need employees to keep track of your insurance policy.

[00:44:11.390] – Speaker 1
I think at that point you do, yes. It’s one of those things, people actually, banks use it. It’s called BOLI, B O L I. Companies use it, corporations, COLI, COLI. It’s known in the wealthy circles, I would say, but it’s lesser known to everybody still.

[00:44:30.540] – Speaker 2
All right, interesting. Not everyone’s going to necessarily have $100,000 to lay around.

[00:44:36.790] – Speaker 1
Yeah.

[00:44:37.910] – Speaker 2
When you’re talking to, let’s say, someone that’s interested in investing in trailer parks or something like.

[00:44:43.780] – Speaker 1
That.

[00:44:44.750] – Speaker 2
What’s too small for you to even talk to?

[00:44:49.090] – Speaker 1
I tell people I can never tell someone straight up this is too small to start. One thing that will depend on it, if someone who’s 60 and said, I want to put 6,000 a year into this, well, we got to make sure that they could even pay 6,000 a year for enough insurance coverage. So I have to be careful there. But typically the smallest one I’ve set up for someone was about 5,000. All right. So 5,000 is a good starting point. There are some that can go cheaper. And so I wouldn’t want to rule anybody out. Like, if there’s someone that’s 30 and they want to start 3,600 a year, I mean, that’s definitely possible. And we don’t like even though we have people to do large numbers, we don’t turn anybody away and say, no, you’re too small. We’re willing to help anybody start where they start. Their financial freedom path might take a little longer, obviously, starting with smaller numbers. But it really is going to depend on their age, health, and all of that. But typically around 5,000 to 10,000 is a good range starting age. I remember talking.

[00:45:50.220] – Speaker 2
To a friend of mine that got a poll policy. I think she was 22, 23. And so.

[00:45:58.020] – Speaker 1
I didn’t.

[00:45:58.550] – Speaker 2
Know her until she was early 30, something like that. It was interesting because she’s like, by that time it was good and it was essentially self funded whatever. But how many 20 somethings got sold on that? It actually stuck with it. Not many, I.

[00:46:13.380] – Speaker 1
Don’t think. But yeah. And the other thing I would say I just would throw out there for people is, and I won’t go into all the specifics of why, but if someone’s looking to sell them universal life or variable universal as a banking system, it doesn’t really work for that. I’m not personally a fan of those. I personally feel those are actually more to make that person commission than anything. And so honestly, and I don’t know if I get in trouble for saying this on a podcast, but we say that we wouldn’t even sell it to our worst enemy. I have people who I meet with who they think they can do this banking thing. And then I look at it and they’re like, and then they tell me, well, I can’t even take a loan on it for five years. And I say, well, that’s not banking. You should be able to take it right away. It should be something set up really for banking right away. So that’s just the amount of touching people on.

[00:47:04.680] – Speaker 1
Can you help me define the difference, I guess, term, life insurance? I think it’s safe to say everybody knows that. But the universal versus whole, I couldn’t tell you the difference.

[00:47:15.430] – Speaker 1
That’s the thing. I don’t specialize in it. I’ve seen it. I would say the main thing is that it’s failed a few times and been repackaged. It’s tied more to the stock market. Got you.

[00:47:28.100] – Speaker 2
It comes more expensive over time. Your whole life, you’re going to have the same number over time. And so it’s set up that way. And it’s not tied to anything. It’s just this guaranteed rate that you get that’s contractually there that’s actually mandated by the government to get it. So it’s not my specialty, but I’ve read up enough that they have failed a few times. And a lot of times what ends up happening is people can’t even afford to keep paying that over time as they get older. So it looks like a good deal. And like I said, Jim Oliver, who’s the head of our firm, he absolutely will not let anybody touch it in our firm and go near it. And it stayed away from it for a long time because he’s seen it because he’s had so many clients that he’s seen it fail for that he just really does not care for them. All right.

[00:48:22.180] – Speaker 2
So what happens if an insurance company folds? Do people just lose their benefits? Yeah.

[00:48:28.600] – Speaker 1
There is one that folded, but the past, I don’t know how many years, typically what actually happens is another insurance company just buys them because it’s such a profitable business. And the ones that do fail, usually there’s some warning signs and they do some shady stuff. And the good thing is you can check their financial ratings. So that’s why we’re very careful about the insurance companies we work with on this. And we do make sure they’re very financially solvent. A few of them, I heard something about if they paid out… I won’t give out the numbers because I’ll mess them up. But basically, if they pay out a large, almost everybody’s death benefit, they’d still have a ton of money left over. I can’t remember the exact percentage of it was. Got you. Okay. They’re very financially solvent if they’re a smart, good insurance company. But what happened on that one that failed is another insurance company did just buy them and transferred all those policies into their company and still on. That’s at least what I read up. It’s not a company I work with, so I don’t know as much about their history, but that’s what I read.

[00:49:28.120] – Speaker 2
All right. Very cool. Well, Drew, we’re running out of time here. So I guess how can people find you? Yeah.

[00:49:36.030] – Speaker 1
So my website, ibcdrew.com, which is Infinite Banking Concept, drew.com. They can chat with me on there. They can sign up for my newsletter. And I’m also big on LinkedIn, which same thing, LinkedIn, IBC Drew. All right.

[00:49:51.120] – Speaker 2
Ibsdrew.com, you said? Yeah.

[00:49:54.360] – Speaker 1
All right.

[00:49:55.680] – Speaker 2
Infinite Banking Concept. Awesome. And how long have you been doing this?

[00:49:59.630] – Speaker 1
Just about two years now. All right.

[00:50:02.950] – Speaker 2
And I guess you got your RV or helped finance your RV from that. So that’s pretty awesome.

[00:50:09.430] – Speaker 1
You use the product, I guess.

[00:50:13.090] – Speaker 1
I do. So I used it first before I ever taught anybody. And that’s huge in our industry. We’re like, if someone’s teaching it, they should also be doing it. It’s something you should believe in enough to actually do yourself. So I love it. And it’s definitely changed my life. And we wouldn’t be doing the RV thing. And we were never a sole income family. We were dual, and now we’re sole. And so it’s been life changing for me. Wow. No pressure, right?

[00:50:40.690] – Speaker 2
Yeah.

[00:50:41.670] – Speaker 1
I can handle it this time, unlike day trading.

[00:50:46.180] – Speaker 2
So tell me just really quick, how will you sell while you’re on the road?

[00:50:51.350] – Speaker 2
Yeah. So I do most of my business through LinkedIn. I post, interact with people. I’ll probably network more. I can work in any state. And so I work through Zooms and phone calls. Yeah.

[00:51:05.120] – Speaker 2
So I’ll just keep doing what I’m doing, just more mobile and make sure I have a good satellite Internet. Yeah. That is awesome.

[00:51:12.540] – Speaker 2
That is cool. Drew, thank you so much for being on the show. Yeah, thank you, James.

[00:51:16.620] – Speaker 1
I appreciate it.

[00:51:17.680] – Speaker 1
This has been Authentic Business Adventures, the business program that brings you the struggle stories and triumphant successes of business owners across the land. We’re locally underwritten by the Bank of Sun Prairie. If you’re doing I’m sorry. If you’re watching or listening to this on the web, you could do us a huge favor. Hit that big old subscribe button, give it the big old thumbs up, and of course, comment and ask some questions for Drew because this is the whole Infinite Banking Concept. I know we got people that are big fans. We got people that may not be fans for whatever reason. And you got people like me that are just like, What are you talking about? So I really appreciate you being on the show, Drew, to help us figure this out. But I’m certain people have some questions, so if they could do us a huge favor and slap those on the bottom there. My name is James Kademan and Authentic Business Adventures is brought you by Calls on Call, offering call answering and reception services for service businesses across the country on the web at callsoncall.com. And of course, The Bold Business Book, a book for the entrepreneur in all of us available wherever fine books are sold.

[00:52:16.800] – Speaker 2
We’d like to thank you, our wonderful listeners, as well as our guest, Drew White, the founder of IBC work… I’m sorry, IBCDrew, that’s Infinite Banking Concept. You got it. Awesome. IBC Drew working with Create Tailwind. So, Drew, could you tell us that website one more time?

[00:52:34.190] – Speaker 1
Yeah, ibcdrew.com, which stands for Infinite Banking Concept, Drew.com.

[00:52:38.840] – Speaker 1
Awesome. It doesn’t get easier than that, right?

[00:52:41.820] – Speaker 1
Past episodes can be found morning, noon, and night. Podcast link found at drawincustomers.com. Thank you for listening. We’ll see you next week. I want you to stay awesome and if you do nothing else, enjoy your business.