Boss Nation – Dog and Cat Food and Products

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You have found

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Authentic Business Adventures, the business
program that brings you the struggles.

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Stories, and triumphant successes
of business owners across the land.

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Oh, my goodness gracious.

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I’m excited because we have Basel Nassar,
the owner of Boss Nation.

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I should let you guys know that we’re

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locally underwritten
by the Bank of Sun Prairie.

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We got to throw that in there.

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My name is James Kademan, entrepreneur,

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author, speaker, and helpful coach to
small business owners across the country.

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But today we’re going to learn about
Boss Nation, which is kind of exciting

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because as we can see,
this is all about dogs.

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And I’ll just let you take it from here.

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Basel, how about you tell
us just what is Boss Nation?

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Sure.

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We launched Boss Dog was our first brand
pillar under Boss Nation in 2019,

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and it was my first venture
into the pet specialty channel.

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And in about 36 months,

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we introduced two brand pillars,
both Boss Dog and Boss Cat,

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where we focus on producing a line
of ultra premium meals, treats,

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supplements, and hard goods
for both dogs and cats.

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Oh, wow.
All right.

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I imagine you’re a pet guy.
I’m a pet guy.

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I’m a serial entrepreneur by nature.

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I’ve been building brands
for over 30 years.

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Prior to Boss Dog and Boss Cat,
I was in the Greek yogurt segment

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for humans for about 20 years,
and we scaled a pretty large company.

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We were a little over 300 million

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in street consumption rate
by the time we ended up selling.

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Then I was acquired in 2010

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by Hain Celestial, and they were large,
natural, organic food concern.

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And for eight years, I was

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given the privilege of running
their refrigerated division.

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And what that afforded me was a lot
of expertise in learning how to infuse

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probiotics into foods, variety of foods,
from dairy bases to plant based.

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So I took that knowledge and all

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that years of experience in yogurt
and infusion, and we adopted what we’re

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doing in human, and now we’ve
translated into pet solutions.

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So focused on digestive health mainly.

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All right, let’s start way back when,
when you first started.

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So we’re talking 30 plus years ago.
Sure.

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What made you decide to start your own

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business versus just
getting a typical day job?

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I think the common answer is I got
tired of making other people money.

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Yeah.
I had an accounting background initially,

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and then just by chance,
I ended up getting into operations

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and running a spice and soup
facility in Washington state.

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Oh, wow.

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I enjoyed it and decided that I
could probably do this on my own.

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So I ventured in a few different

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industries and learned everything
from finance, accounting,

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all the way up to plan operations,
and even his granular driving forklifts.

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That was 10-15 years of that.

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And I ended up partnering with a couple
of gentlemen in Washington state in early

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2000, and that’s when we started
our first national brand build.

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And then at that point.

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Once you get the taste

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of entrepreneurialism, it’s hard to go
back, especially if you’re successful.

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Oh, very true, very true.

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So is this the first
business was in yogurt?

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First business was
actually in energy bars.

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Oh, really?
Okay.

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Energy bar venture a long time ago,
but my most recent was Yogurt for Humans.

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And we got in front of the Greek
yogurt phenomenon in early 2000.

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I was just going to say, you rode
that wave right at the beginning.

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Yeah, we were the second
Greek yogurt in the US.

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After the Greek supplied source.

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And there was a window of opportunity

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in early 2000 and we
didn’t have deep pockets.

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It was just three young Greek guys
in their early 20s trying to figure out

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how to at the time, we were making
hummus, would you believe in?

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And then just pivoting into Greek
yogurt because it was much easier.

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Market segment entry,
and we just did that for years.

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We still look back on that is probably one

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of the more proactive and profitable
business we’ve ever run.

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It almost made not to say that it was
easy, but the timing was perfect,

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the margins were ideal,
and we didn’t have a 400 SKU base,

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and so it was really easy
to manage the business to scale.

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Yeah,
I can’t say the same about

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alcohol and spirits,
which I was in for about two years

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and then now pet some of the highest
barriers of entry I’ve ever seen.

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So it’s really not for the timid.

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Yeah, the alcohol,

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I can see that being tough to get
into or at least tough to expand.

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A lot of laws seem pretty
archaic from what I’ve seen.

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That just prevent a lot of things
that to me seem logical from happening.

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But yeah, I guess I’m not in that business

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from other people I’ve interviewed,
it’s challenging.

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I always tell people with liquor,
it’s easy to sum it up with.

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There’s 10ft of space on the wall
and you’re trying to convince somebody why

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you belong next to Jim Beam
and Jack Daniels.

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All right.

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This market entry is very hard.

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Sure.

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Tell me so when you’re starting
the energy bars sure.

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Are you just making those in your kitchen?

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Tell me about that business.

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That was a long time ago.

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I think we’ve evolved
from an innovation standpoint.

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Back in those days, it was kitchen
formulation, kitchen economics.

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Nowadays we have a regulatory team,

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great development group that I work with,
both internal and third party.

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And it’s not easy because especially

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in the game I’m in today, everyone’s
trying to romance protein for pets.

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Yeah, well,

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they romance protein for humans for long
enough, so they do expand a little bit.

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I’m trying to think where I saw that

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someone made a comment about
the protein craze for humans.

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Seem like we’re all starving cavemen
and we just need protein somehow.

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There’s people that aren’t really doing

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anything to justify that protein intake
just sitting on the couch, whatever.

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Yeah.

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Interesting.
But that’s been the challenge as you’re

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trying to add value in a market
where there’s a lot of me too.

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And so to be able to fill your innovation
pipeline with stuff that’s really going

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to not necessarily be disruptive,
but bring value to either a segment,

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the popular segment,
that’s the real challenge.

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And it takes time to get back.

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So I don’t innovate any way today
like I used to 30 years ago.

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All right.
Now, why?

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Is it because it’s more difficult or
because it’s just you’re tired, you don’t.

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Want to get it wrong.

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I’ve been privy to, like,

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national survey studies where you send
your product and they give you a grade.

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I’ve seen highly successful products go

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into those survey studies with terrible
grades, and I would go into what you guys

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thinking, and then I’ve
seen him get it right.

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So I think any time you take a concept
to market, if you do it right, a,

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you’re building inventory, b,
you’re putting out a marketing program

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and a gotomarket strategy,
and it’s not cheap.

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So I would say every entry for me is well
over a quarter million dollar entry point.

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So you want to get those things right.

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You want to do your trials, your studies,

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and things that you don’t
think about 30 years ago.

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When you’re just ambitious and you just

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want to get to work,
you’re going with your gut.

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But we still go with our gut.

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But we go with our gut
with a little intelligence now.

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All right.
It’s just experience.

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I imagine that helps.

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Is it you or do you
have business partners?

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This particular venture, I’m on my own,
so I ended up hand picking some senior

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executives who have been
with me for over 15 years.

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Nice.

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And they ended up coming in, helping me
run my marketing teams, my back office.

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And we’ve got people that have worked

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with us from ground up from day
one on more than one venture.

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So I’m very fortunate to have a great

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group of people where I’m
at today without them.

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You know what’s interesting that I’m
gathering so far from speaking with you

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compared to some of the other people
that I’ve spoken to the past few weeks,

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really, that I’ve interviewed, I’ve
run across some people that were not.

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They were very nice people,

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and they were smart about the certain
industry that they were in.

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From a business savvy point of view,
they seem to be more passionate about

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whatever it is they were
doing rather than profitable.

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And I think maybe the passion got
in the way of the profit because they

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wanted to do this thing makes a world
a better place, which is cool,

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but that blinded them from actually
accomplishing some goals to expand.

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And talking with you,

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it sounds like you’re just like,
how can we figure out how to expand?

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I guess more profitless, passion,
which is not a bad thing.

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It can be dangerous to have too much
passion without the pocketbook.

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You can grow yourself out of business.

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And I think if there was one message that

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I would want to resonate today, would be
clearing the financial gap.

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When you’re building a brand, it’s
an extraordinary hurdle.

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And a lot of groups,
so that’s why they typically fail.

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So sometimes measuring
your growth is critical.

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I almost chuckle anymore today when I talk
to people that are evaluating my growth

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from the outside,
looking in at my business.

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Okay, you cannot look at what
happened the last two years.

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In all reality, you can’t look at right.

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Because as a legacy brand,
the last two years in Pet, you killed it.

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It was a great opportunity for new
households that were acquiring pets.

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Huge.
Yeah.

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But as a new brand, a startup,
it was a death curse.

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Your curbside shopping.

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There’s nobody shopping
the perimeter of the store.

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And so I’m thrilled that I even got

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through the last two years,
because when I talk to other

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entrepreneurs, I’ll spend all day
talking about the financial gap.

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How about the pandemic gap that I had to
get over and feed the financial machine?

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Because you couldn’t get listings,
you couldn’t get distribution.

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I mean, it was virtually standstill.

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So that’s the biggest challenge.

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And then unforeseen, like,
what we just went through.

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I wouldn’t wish it on anybody,
startup or otherwise.

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Yeah, it was a mess.

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It was a mess.

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My particular business did well.

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It was just purely accidental.

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It was right business, right time.

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And it’s like, we did well,

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but we could have just as easily been
in a business that had a bad day.

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We just started very easily.

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It’s interesting because I talked to some

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entrepreneurs, they’re like,
we nailed it because we’re so smart.

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You’re in a certain industry that just

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about everyone in that industry did great,
so don’t patch back too hard.

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And other people in restaurants or

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something like that,
it’s not necessarily your fault.

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Where a lot of times outside of that,

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if you didn’t do so hot,
you could totally say it was their fault.

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But it’s just wrong industry, wrong
time versus right industry, right time.

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In this timing, right?

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I mean, most of the industry is any time.

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Unless you’re in Sanitizers,
you’re turning the light on January 2020.

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I’m sorry.

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You were at a standstill just taking
calls, but, yeah, look, we got over it.

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We’re here.

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Other folks in the game didn’t
make it, unfortunately.

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I’m almost looking at this as my first

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year in business, even though
this is our fourth year.

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James that’s fair.

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Yeah.

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Totally understand.

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So tell me, when you got into this
business, was the idea, I guess,

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the reason that you got in this business,
was it because you saw potential or

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because you had ideas that you
wanted to see them through?

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Or what was the driving force
of the main driving force.

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I’ll tell you, every time I get into a new

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industry or I launch a new brand,
it’s time spent with myself

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thinking about where trends are going,
where my passions are.

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And at the time that particular time,
I went from zero to household animals,

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and there were a lot of circumstances
that led to that person.

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So that in conjunction
with being in the human game.

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For as long as I was looking at what was
happening in Pet, looking at the growth

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in certain segments and the fact
that there wasn’t a digestive health

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leader, I felt that there was
a great opportunity for us there.

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So that was originally
what kind of got us going.

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And then I launched
with a Greek frozen yogurt.

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So it was a great entry point.

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I had fair amount of credibility with 20
yogurt for humans,

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but the objective on day one was
purely market share acquisition.

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I told everybody on the first day all
the naysayers that we were going to be two

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grand pillars and over 13 segments in
under three years, and we did just that.

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Wow, 13 brand segments, 450,000 points
of distribution and two brand pillars.

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And as I said earlier, looking at this
is our first year in business.

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That’s cool.

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So let me talk or ask you about marketing.
Sure.

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Marketing.
Business like this,

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you’re essentially trying to get
on the shelf in places,

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stores or website to get shelf
right where people are shopping.

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Because I imagine before your brand is

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known, people have to stumble upon
you or find you through advertising.

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So how do you get on the shelves
of all these places?

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Yeah, every industry obviously has

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a different framework, so Pet is carved
into a variety of different channels.

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Pet specialty is what I’m going to call

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your brick and mortar mom
pop up and down the street.

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A lot of door knocking,
but a tremendous amount of business.

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Great following, great advocates to build

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brands, especially raw food
concepts like what we’re doing.

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All right?

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And then you start seeing,
of course, the.com channel.

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Then you start looking at the larger big
box models within Pet,

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and then you start looking at your CPG,
national independence.

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So it’s a very particular industry

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and that you have to be very channel
discipline because if you start

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in the wrong channel, you’ll likely not be
able to make moves into other channels.

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So it’s a different approach.

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This is a channel
strategy driven approach okay.

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Where I’m focused on achieving
what we call max ACV or a lot of market

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share in this channel before
I end up making my moves.

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But
we do it intelligently because we’re big

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supporters of the independent
business model.

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I think over the last few years,
you saw a pretty Swiss move to.com

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and we’re not saying that’s not
a good model or good channel to be in.

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I see too many small independents closed
doors, and I still think there’s great

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value when you walk into a pet store
excuse me, my table drop

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and go to a pet store, and you’re able
to go in and ask the employee for input.

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All right.
You ever walked into a human store?

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The most that you’ll ask somebody is,
where’s the bread aisle?

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And then once you’ll figure it out,

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when you walk into a pet store,
it’s a lot of Q and A.

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I have a sick dog.
I have an aging dog.

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I have a new puppy.

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What should I feed them?

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And so there’s a lot of education

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that goes on at brick and mortar that I
just don’t think you can get online.

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So we’re very focused
on that channel today.

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You know what’s interesting you say
that because I’m trying to think, when

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we first got our first dog,
I remember going to the store.

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There’s a decent sized store in the
Midwest here, a few branches, whatever.

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I went there, and I got a cart,

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and I was just like, okay,
I got to buy everything I need for a dog.

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And there’s a girl that helped me.

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She was walking around, okay, you’re going
to need this, that, and the other thing.

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Whatever.
They had a checklist.

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And it’s interesting that you say that,
because I can’t imagine going online

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and doing the same thing and being as
productive in a short amount of time.

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Online tools are great for reordering

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staple items, but if you want items of any
specific uniqueness, you still have to.

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Typically go just texture the leash.

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Yeah, exactly.
Length.

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I mean, the little clips and buckles,
how they do their little thing.

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And even once we got the dog figuring out
what treats she liked,

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it a lot easier to figure out what
treat she likes, and she can try them.

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Absolutely.

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Yeah.

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I totally see a space for Brick
and Mortar, especially something like

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this, and it helps that we can
bring her dog into the store.

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It’s kind of fun.

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To expand on your marketing question,

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I can tell you that we’ve done
different approaches over the years.

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I’ve always been very fond of what
I call spoon to mouth marketing.

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Okay.
So it’s store level.

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It’s literally product to mouth.

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Well, it’s a little different when you’re
in pet, because now I’m trying to convince

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the consumer to buy
the product for the pet.

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Right.
And you can’t sample the consumer.

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You can sample the pet.

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And oftentimes pets don’t want to be
treated in an environment where they’re

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unaccustomed or getting
a treat from somebody new.

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Oftentimes it doesn’t result in the same
way as if you were giving it to the human.

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So we still do some spoon mouth
marketing at trade events.

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A lot of the marketing is now done

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digitally, but I’m a really big believer
of up and down the street still,

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so all my team members,
including myself, visit pet stores.

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All right.

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Even during the height of COVID everybody
was all decked out,

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but we were in the stores and figuring
out what we needed to do to be relevant.

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All right.
I think if you’re going to build in this

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industry, you need to be willing
to put some foot traffic in.

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Yeah, I think that goes for a lot
of businesses and a lot of industries.

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Tell me the sequence
of getting into these places.

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You mentioned that there’s a certain

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sequence, otherwise
you’re kind of blocked.

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How did you figure out
what that sequence was?

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I visited over 1500 pet stores.
Okay.

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It’s quite a few.
All right.

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Yeah.

[00:19:01]
It’s just a massive
amount of door knocking.

[00:19:04]
Everybody’s different CPG.

[00:19:07]
You can usually do a headquarter call

[00:19:09]
for 50 to 100 stores and you’re doing
a headquarter call for one to two stores.

[00:19:14]
All right.

[00:19:15]
It’s still a relationship based industry,
so you’re not purely data driven.

[00:19:21]
Whereas in the past I’ve
been free feet of space.

[00:19:24]
What are you going to do for me?

[00:19:25]
Yeah, you guys have a great origin story.

[00:19:28]
We love where your products
come from and all this.

[00:19:31]
And that’s probably been the bigger

[00:19:33]
challenge because there’s a lot
of romance that goes on store level.

[00:19:37]
That takes time, but it’s an incremental

[00:19:42]
gain business,
but it just takes a tremendous amount

[00:19:45]
of time and you really need
your own team to do it.

[00:19:48]
Alright.

[00:19:48]
Because they rely on reps outside
of your internal framework.

[00:19:53]
They have too many brands in their bags.

[00:19:56]
I was just at Global and Orlando and
there’s over 4000 new Kimble Concepts.

[00:20:02]
4000?
Yeah.

[00:20:03]
So everybody is coming
out with something again.

[00:20:06]
Another twist on protein.

[00:20:09]
Now you’re a distributor
rep and you’re going in.

[00:20:12]
You’ve got 400 brands and 15,000 SKUs

[00:20:15]
and you’re trying to get Joe the buyer
who’s busy in the back grooming

[00:20:20]
standard Poodles, and listen
to you for ten minutes.

[00:20:23]
How many brands are you
going to get through?

[00:20:24]
So those are the biggest challenges
to building exposure to your brand.

[00:20:28]
It’s just getting all right.

[00:20:29]
Interesting.

[00:20:31]
What do the different managers or wherever

[00:20:34]
you need to say yes,
what are they looking for?

[00:20:37]
Are they looking for a unique product
or high margin or any combination?

[00:20:42]
What are they looking for?

[00:20:45]
I’ve seen the pet industry is very

[00:20:47]
sensitive to margin,
as they should be,

[00:20:51]
because the cost to overhead a lot
of these stores is particularly high.

[00:20:56]
We have specialized people,

[00:20:58]
but I think more than anything,
they want the product origin story.

[00:21:03]
The why and why is it good for pets

[00:21:06]
and where did the product
ingredients come from?

[00:21:10]
And so if you notice right behind me,

[00:21:12]
we’re doing our where and we’re
quality and Quantity matter campaign.

[00:21:16]
Yeah.

[00:21:18]
How we’re focused on not just introducing
probiotics into our products.

[00:21:21]
We can stand behind the claim 1 billion

[00:21:24]
probiotics at the end
of shelf life per cup.

[00:21:27]
And to be able to substantiate that,

[00:21:29]
I’m finding is resonating
really well with retailers.

[00:21:33]
They want a story and they want support.
All right.

[00:21:35]
To help differentiate your
product from anything else.

[00:21:40]
Yeah.
If you’re William Wanda pet store

[00:21:43]
and you’re competing against the mass
market down the road, and then the.com

[00:21:48]
you want a value added solution that’s
a destination draw for your store.

[00:21:53]
So I think that’s first and foremost

[00:21:55]
in pet specialty, and then
it’s just the relationship.

[00:21:57]
All right, nice.

[00:21:59]
You know, it’s interesting that you say
that, because I remember going to the pet

[00:22:03]
store, and I’m like,
okay, I need dog food.

[00:22:05]
And I bet they had, I don’t remember,

[00:22:07]
three or four aisles
and different size bags,

[00:22:11]
different size things, and use
chicken, fish, beef, whatever.

[00:22:16]
And I’m just like I don’t know.

[00:22:20]
And I was thinking, well, it’s your dogs.

[00:22:22]
You don’t want to just get it necessarily

[00:22:24]
on price only, because I feel like that’s
just sawdust even though I don’t know.

[00:22:28]
And I don’t want to get the crazy pricey

[00:22:29]
stuff, because the crazy
pricey stuff is crazy.

[00:22:35]
So it’s just one of those, like,

[00:22:37]
I’m trying to differentiate
the different bags from each other.

[00:22:41]
I had a really hard time with that.

[00:22:43]
Really hard time.

[00:22:44]
Yeah, it’s a lot easier for us.
We just go to the store.

[00:22:47]
We go to the butcher section and order

[00:22:48]
your fish, lean cut of meat,
and you’re out.

[00:22:52]
And so I think as a consumer, you want to
look for products that are protein first.

[00:22:57]
So you’re getting the meat first.

[00:22:59]
You say you’re a fish protein,
be a fish protein.

[00:23:02]
Don’t eat fish.
And then have chicken meal in it as well.

[00:23:05]
I got you.
Okay.

[00:23:06]
These are just common knowledge things
that I’ve learned in the last five years.

[00:23:12]
And then we have to formulate everything
according to a governing body.

[00:23:18]
So it’s not as if we’re out just willy
nilly putting pet foods to market.

[00:23:21]
So there’s a governing body called Afghan
that sets the criteria for what a complete

[00:23:28]
meal is or what defines
a treat or a supplement.

[00:23:30]
So it’s doing this following those rules.
It’s, in fact,

[00:23:35]
far more difficult to launch a product
and pet than it is human is.

[00:23:39]
It really far more difficult.
Wow.

[00:23:43]
Now, is that because of the rules
of some kind or the I guess.

[00:23:46]
Tell me why.

[00:23:48]
I’ll tell you in under 10 seconds.

[00:23:50]
In our human world,
you’re FDA USDA compliant.

[00:23:53]
So as long as your ingredient lists

[00:23:55]
and your processing methods meet
that criteria, you’re good.

[00:23:59]
In pet, it’s the same.

[00:24:00]
However, you need to meet a state
level examination review.

[00:24:06]
So even if you’re already compliant at,

[00:24:09]
let’s say, the federal level,
you have to go through all 50 states

[00:24:14]
and every year pay to have a renewed
license in your state for your product.

[00:24:19]
And that’s for every individual SKU.

[00:24:21]
And where it gets complicated is,

[00:24:24]
let’s say, for example, this is real
world, real business talk right now.

[00:24:29]
You print a half a million preformed
pouches, and on that preformed pouch,

[00:24:35]
you have all your legal declarations,
and there’s an asterisk at the bottom.

[00:24:39]
48 of the states are
fine with the asterisk.

[00:24:42]
Two states have a problem with it.

[00:24:43]
You got to reprint all your packages
before they’ll give you compliance.

[00:24:47]
So there’s steps that you have to take

[00:24:50]
to ease the economic burden of having
the state level compliance

[00:24:55]
by doing digital printing
versus flexible and so forth.

[00:24:59]
But that’s the complication,

[00:25:02]
and it’s frustrating because it can be as
simple as a bolding of a letter,

[00:25:06]
and there’s really no
appreciation for what an entrepreneur goes

[00:25:12]
through just to get
that product to market.

[00:25:14]
And my asterisks is in the wrong place.

[00:25:18]
That was a huge frustration for me coming

[00:25:21]
into Pet, just having to deal
with the state level examiners and them

[00:25:24]
interpreting things differently, because I
think there should be one standard rule.

[00:25:28]
Yeah.

[00:25:31]
So did you initially only distribute
in a few states to limit that?

[00:25:36]
No, I went right to market, so
we were national within less than a year.

[00:25:42]
We went all 14 distribution centers,
and now we’re in about 450,000 points.

[00:25:50]
All right, so one SKU qualifies
as one point of distribution.

[00:25:54]
In my mind.

[00:25:56]
I come from a world where I had one skew

[00:25:59]
of yogurt that was the number one
SKU in America for ten years.

[00:26:03]
Wow.
All right.

[00:26:05]
And so people always say to me, well,

[00:26:06]
how can you look at one SKU
as one point of distribution?

[00:26:09]
Well, if you have one Coca Cola, can,

[00:26:12]
the original Coke, or back in the day,
a Twin, let’s say.

[00:26:16]
You only needed the one core skew to drive
velocity and be relevant on a shelf.

[00:26:22]
So if you innovate quality SKUs, then each
skew should contribute a portion of that.

[00:26:32]
Advocate of each individual skew plays
a big part in growing your business.

[00:26:36]
Dang, that is crazy.

[00:26:39]
You mentioned distribution.

[00:26:41]
So are there only a few distributors or
warehouses, whatever,

[00:26:44]
that are sending to the different
Pet stores and stuff like that?

[00:26:48]
Good question.

[00:26:51]
Generally speaking,

[00:26:52]
most of the distribution framework
is either regional or national.

[00:26:57]
And that’s, I think, with any industry,
really, there’s typically two national

[00:27:02]
players and guys that handle
regional pockets.

[00:27:05]
That’s no different.

[00:27:06]
In Pet, we work with both
the nationals and the regionals.

[00:27:10]
I’m just very particular
about crossing territory.

[00:27:14]
I like to walk into a sales meeting
for a distributor and say,

[00:27:19]
this is your territory,
go after it,

[00:27:21]
as opposed to you’re competing with two
other distributors in the same market.

[00:27:25]
Got you.

[00:27:26]
So we try to be conscientious
of that as a business.

[00:27:31]
I imagine also from the store’s end,

[00:27:34]
they don’t want to deal
with 50 million vendors.

[00:27:36]
They want to deal with ten or something
like that, because trucks come and go

[00:27:41]
and you don’t want to be have the guy
with his station wagon and three bags

[00:27:45]
of food in the way of the semi
trailer or something like that.

[00:27:50]
But I imagine that’s a game in of itself,

[00:27:53]
getting a distributor
to distribute your product.

[00:27:57]
Right.

[00:27:58]
You’re playing a number
of games all the time.

[00:28:00]
I think the first one
is getting the sale in.

[00:28:03]
So when the sale occurs now,
it’s up to the distributor, up to us,

[00:28:07]
to produce the product right
and get it to distribution.

[00:28:10]
I think where the gap occurs in any growth

[00:28:14]
game or any growth model is getting
the new metric in place so that you know

[00:28:22]
what you’re buying for and what
you’re producing for.

[00:28:24]
And so I know for three years I was
in the dark, I had to just literally gut

[00:28:29]
instinct how much of this to bring
in and how much of that for fear that it

[00:28:33]
was going to shrink out or
whatever and not have enough of it.

[00:28:37]
And I think that’s been the biggest
challenge in Pet is it’s such an ebb

[00:28:42]
and flow industry where you get these real
high highs on promo and then you get this

[00:28:49]
where it will kind
of stagnate for a while.

[00:28:53]
I’ve always told people, I said,

[00:28:54]
it’s a game where
you either have to make an extraordinary

[00:29:01]
investment an extraordinary investment
in Pet is not $5 million to enter.

[00:29:05]
That’s nothing extraordinary.

[00:29:08]
Yeah, okay.

[00:29:09]
I’ve already done well over that.

[00:29:10]
Extraordinary investment in Pet is
going out and changing the landscape.

[00:29:15]
So you’re taking a kibble and bits format.

[00:29:18]
For how many years can we remember?

[00:29:20]
We just fed our Pet’s kibble
and now you’re seeing the innovation start

[00:29:25]
to push all of these different
segments out of the store freezers.

[00:29:29]
You never saw Pet stores
with freezers before.

[00:29:31]
I’ve seen stores now with 26
doors of freezers or more.

[00:29:35]
Wow.

[00:29:36]
So it’s either
the landscape is going to expand

[00:29:40]
to support the innovation,
to let a brand like me in or the other

[00:29:46]
brands that are already
there have to mess up.

[00:29:50]
All right?

[00:29:52]
And it’s just the reality
of the world that we’re in.

[00:29:55]
And you see some brands either skip
a beat or fail or make a mistake.

[00:30:00]
You find an entry point or
you see a massive expansion.

[00:30:03]
And we saw that, like, when Greek
yogurt really took the world by storm.

[00:30:08]
The sets, which were consistent with two

[00:30:11]
major brands were 2025 foot sets,
40 to 50 to 80 foot sets.

[00:30:16]
Now, if you walk in a grocery store so
landscape invested in the innovation.

[00:30:21]
Okay.

[00:30:23]
And now we’re all waiting for Pet to do
that so we can promote the growth.

[00:30:27]
All right.

[00:30:28]
Interesting.

[00:30:30]
It’s so funny talking about this,

[00:30:32]
because I remember the first time
my wife brought home Greek yogurt.

[00:30:35]
I was just like, what’s the difference
between this and just yogurt?

[00:30:39]
Yeah,

[00:30:40]
I remember you go down the grocery stories
aisle or the yogurt aisle, whatever,

[00:30:45]
and Greek used to be this thing,
and then it was half the store.

[00:30:49]
Seemingly bizarre margin
seem better on it?

[00:30:53]
Yeah, it’s cool with raw right now.

[00:30:56]
Raw and raw food, meals.

[00:30:58]
All right, segments.

[00:30:59]
We’re into tremendous growth.

[00:31:03]
I had a student in my
business planning class.

[00:31:06]
It had to be three or four years ago.

[00:31:08]
She was putting together
raw food for dogs locally.

[00:31:13]
And what blew my mind was that it was per

[00:31:17]
meal in the neighborhood of $6
that she was selling to people.

[00:31:22]
And I was thinking, people
pay $6 a meal for their dog.

[00:31:26]
To me, that was crazy.

[00:31:29]
Babies and pets are premium spends.
Yeah.

[00:31:33]
Oh, my gosh.

[00:31:34]
It was crazy.

[00:31:35]
I should check in to see where she’s at,
but that was the thing.

[00:31:38]
And even at that, the margins are pretty
low because she just wasn’t scaling.

[00:31:43]
It was her and her kitchen, essentially.

[00:31:46]
People now for their pets
like they do for themselves.

[00:31:50]
The assembly line here where we
prep at night for the next day.

[00:31:54]
All right.

[00:31:55]
Pets are family now.
That’s true.

[00:31:58]
That’s fair.
That’s very true.

[00:32:01]
Tell me, what made you decide
to get into both cats and dogs?

[00:32:05]
Well, we have cats.

[00:32:06]
We have four dogs, two cats, and a 140
pound tortoise here at the ranch.

[00:32:11]
And we think we’ve got a couple
more beautiful animals coming.

[00:32:14]
So we have this ranch declaration here

[00:32:17]
in Boston ranch, where we showcase our
new animals every couple of times a year.

[00:32:21]
So we have a surprise
coming from you guys.

[00:32:24]
Nice.
My wife is trying to convince us to bring

[00:32:26]
in a couple more, but cat, this seemed
like an obvious transition for us.

[00:32:32]
I felt like, if we can do it for dogs,

[00:32:34]
why not for cats and pet households during
COVID We’re up, I think, 13, 14 million.

[00:32:45]
The rate of cats in homes
in Asia has skyrocketed.

[00:32:49]
So we do a lot of international business.

[00:32:52]
So I just saw a need.

[00:32:53]
James and so we decided to innovate it.

[00:32:55]
And in April of 21, I think we
introduced our first Cat formula.

[00:33:00]
All right, so it’s a
different market approach than Dog.

[00:33:07]
Slightly smaller market,
but growing at an extraordinary rate.

[00:33:11]
Nice.

[00:33:13]
You mentioned this before about

[00:33:14]
the offerings kind of self
sustaining or branching out.

[00:33:18]
Your brain reminds me
of under armor or something.

[00:33:21]
They start in their thing and then expand

[00:33:23]
out and try to throw their tag
on everything,

[00:33:26]
which just uplifts the brand as a whole,
or like it’s any other big brand.

[00:33:31]
Right.
Similar in that regard.

[00:33:33]
So I imagine if I go to a pet store and I
see Boss Nation Food, boss Nation Treats,

[00:33:38]
I’m just inundated with that brand, I’m
going to assume that it’s a good brand.

[00:33:44]
Yeah.
I wanted a lifestyle brand

[00:33:46]
walk in the store,
and whether it was a collar and leash or

[00:33:50]
a simple protein treat or milk drizzle,
I wanted to go to every specific segment

[00:33:56]
treat, supplements, meals or hard goods,
real innovation.

[00:34:00]
So that’s why we expanded
the way that we did.

[00:34:02]
But quite frankly, I’m not trying
to be a job shop for everything pet.

[00:34:07]
I’m really trying to focus on what I think

[00:34:09]
we can do really well
for the pets that we’re catering to.

[00:34:13]
Like, for example,

[00:34:14]
my hard earlier Boss tactical, you won’t
want to put that on the Dog under £40.

[00:34:19]
It’s a very heavier, hardier premium
nylon gunmetal, steel clips.

[00:34:24]
You want 50 pound dogs and up for that.

[00:34:26]
So I’m not trying to be everything

[00:34:28]
for everyone with respect
to the brand offerings.

[00:34:32]
All right.
How do you figure out,

[00:34:34]
with that much variety, how do you
figure out what you’re going to offer?

[00:34:40]
Well, we have our base, you have your base
meals, your base treats and supplements.

[00:34:45]
So I’m at a point where I’ve already done

[00:34:47]
a lot of the innovation, so now it’s
extensions on the existing segments.

[00:34:55]
Very rarely do we have failures,

[00:34:57]
but as soon as we’ve identified one,
we’ll pull it out and substitute it

[00:35:00]
with something else that we
think will do better.

[00:35:02]
Okay.

[00:35:04]
Generally, within a few months, James,

[00:35:06]
you know whether or not you have an item
that’s going to resonate or not,

[00:35:10]
I suppose pretty quick,
the consumer tells you right away.

[00:35:14]
Yeah.

[00:35:16]
Can you tell me a little bit
about the team that you have?

[00:35:18]
That means you got sales,

[00:35:20]
you got marketing, you got the packaging
people, the product developers on the food

[00:35:24]
side, treat side,
and then the hard good side.

[00:35:27]
That sounds like a small,
if not medium size army.

[00:35:32]
Yeah.
So the team that I have came over

[00:35:34]
from the old group, so I’m dealing with,
for example, my back office is run

[00:35:38]
by a young lady named Tammy,
and Tammy has been with me for 15 years.

[00:35:42]
Tammy probably can run three departments

[00:35:45]
extremely efficiently, from logistics to
receivables payables,

[00:35:51]
and then just manage the team
in the order entry side of the business.

[00:35:55]
But she’s just an extraordinarily
high performer.

[00:35:59]
All right.

[00:35:59]
You don’t find people
like that very often.

[00:36:02]
She’s been with me as long as
she has another individual.

[00:36:05]
My head of marketing, Shea Russo.

[00:36:08]
Same situation.

[00:36:10]
She juggles multiple balls,
so everybody is multiple department

[00:36:16]
mentality and has a lot
of experience in doing this.

[00:36:21]
And then we have some new people
that we’ve brought from within

[00:36:24]
the industry, and they’re all starting
to learn our cadence a little bit.

[00:36:29]
But I’m very thankful.

[00:36:31]
In my retention, I think I’ve lost one

[00:36:33]
person, and it was purely
a moving out of state situation.

[00:36:40]
Love working for us.

[00:36:41]
I’m a big believer in letting
people operate independently.

[00:36:46]
Here’s the goal.

[00:36:48]
Go out and get it done.
At the end of the quarter,

[00:36:50]
we’ll talk about what went wrong
and what we need to do better.

[00:36:53]
But I’m not a micromanager.

[00:36:55]
I’m a big believer
in independent activity.

[00:36:59]
Nice.

[00:37:01]
You guys have one location where

[00:37:04]
everybody’s housed,
or are they all over the place?

[00:37:07]
We have two warehouses where we facilitate

[00:37:09]
some pick and pack,
but it’s not our mainstay.

[00:37:13]
Most of our business is handled
outside of third party distributors.

[00:37:17]
I’d say 95% of it up
in Bellingham, Washington.

[00:37:22]
Okay.

[00:37:22]
We got two offices and two warehouses
up there where we handle pick and pack.

[00:37:26]
And then I have my sales team remote.

[00:37:29]
So I’ve got a group
back on the east coast.

[00:37:32]
I have a regional team here

[00:37:34]
on the West Coast,
and then I typically just work myself up

[00:37:37]
and down the West Coast between
the two offices once a month.

[00:37:41]
All right.
Nice.

[00:37:43]
Prior to this, our old group, we had 40
people, and all 40 of us were remote.

[00:37:48]
Oh, wow.
Okay.

[00:37:49]
We had a Starbucks back office.

[00:37:52]
That was a Seattle meeting point.

[00:37:54]
And we go to a restaurant, but

[00:37:58]
the talent that we were finding was
outside of the walls or outside the state.

[00:38:05]
And so we ended up having to just do this
model where everybody could work

[00:38:09]
essentially from I always said it’s
a suitcase entrepreneur from anywhere.

[00:38:15]
Yeah, that’s a good thing to be.

[00:38:18]
Very good thing to be fun.

[00:38:20]
Tell me about the manufacturing.

[00:38:22]
Do you guys manufacture it
or do you contract it out?

[00:38:26]
So, I qualify all the manufacturers
with our head of regulatory, Dr.

[00:38:30]
Mo, and we basically find a facility,
qualify it, and then they do our copack.

[00:38:36]
Very rarely will you see in this game,
full vertical integration.

[00:38:42]
It’s too expensive.
Oh, my gosh.

[00:38:45]
Yes.

[00:38:45]
It takes too long to get
to scale in that plant.

[00:38:48]
James.

[00:38:50]
There are very few brands that can drive,

[00:38:53]
let’s say, enough kibble through one
plant to qualify their own facility.

[00:38:57]
So there are a handful of really good

[00:39:00]
copackers out there, and we’re very
pleased to be working with some of them.

[00:39:04]
Yeah, it’s interesting.

[00:39:05]
I interviewed well, even just yesterday,
I interviewed a guy that’s doing he’s

[00:39:10]
selling food to grocery stores,
prepackaged food,

[00:39:14]
and the scale or the hurdle that you have
to get over to go when you’re just local

[00:39:21]
versus getting national and being able
to process that without contracting out,

[00:39:29]
I don’t want to say impossible,
but it’s certainly costly.

[00:39:33]
And then once you get the equipment,
I can do that.

[00:39:36]
If you’re not keeping it busy,
then it seems kind of waste of money.

[00:39:40]
Yeah,
that’s obviously a challenge for everybody

[00:39:43]
getting ahead of the
inventory built in here.

[00:39:45]
Let me give you one that will really

[00:39:47]
I do bring some product over from overseas
and with the time that it takes to get

[00:39:53]
on the boat,
the amount of time on the water,

[00:39:55]
the customs clearance now and then
the time to bring it into warehouse,

[00:39:59]
you could be carrying your inventory
for upwards 180 day cash flow.

[00:40:03]
Wow.
So a lot of people that are even just

[00:40:06]
trying to get into the game, it’s just
such a cash gap that it’s so hard.

[00:40:13]
We got an order in the other
day that was extraordinary.

[00:40:16]
That would have taken quite a bit to
prefund it, so we had to make some moves.

[00:40:25]
But again, that’s not necessarily a bad

[00:40:28]
thing, but it’s a reality of all
startups trying to get through that gap.

[00:40:36]
Yeah, there’s a shell game sometimes.

[00:40:38]
Sometimes you get that sale
that you’re like, that’s incredible.

[00:40:42]
How do I do it?
How am I going to pay for it?

[00:40:47]
There’s a whole timeline, so yeah,
I completely understand that.

[00:40:51]
So I guess we’re one up
on time a little bit.

[00:40:54]
But I want to talk to you about
business in general or broadly.

[00:40:57]
You’ve been in business for a long time,

[00:40:59]
decades, and you’ve done
some crazy awesome things.

[00:41:02]
So what are some broad things that you’ve
learned in business that you think most

[00:41:07]
entrepreneurs should know and may
not know when they first start out?

[00:41:12]
Well, I know I was probably guilty of this
in the beginning,

[00:41:15]
thinking that surrounding myself with
a bunch of partners was the way to go.

[00:41:18]
But in fact, if you know what you’re
doing, you’re better off on your own.

[00:41:23]
If you have a partner, make sure
they’re willing to work as hard.

[00:41:29]
So that was, I think, my first lesson.

[00:41:33]
Because the problem is when you get
to the place where you’ve realized

[00:41:37]
the business, it’s really hard to look
at all your hard work get segregated.

[00:41:44]
The other one is, I guess, not to be
too ambitious with new concepts.

[00:41:49]
I can’t tell many times I’ve gotten phone
calls from people that have Uncle Joe’s

[00:41:53]
barbecue sauce that everybody
in the neighborhood swears by.

[00:41:57]
I don’t discourage people like that.

[00:42:00]
I just try to explain what the cost

[00:42:02]
of entry is going to be and how
many nos you’re going to get.

[00:42:07]
But brand building in a consumable space
has challenges.

[00:42:14]
You dictate a new pattern of eating or

[00:42:18]
change certain thought perspective where
I’ve never really been in the services

[00:42:22]
game where I sell services,
so I can really only speak to what it

[00:42:25]
takes to build brands
and actual tangibles sure.

[00:42:28]
Fairly, my big ones.
All right.

[00:42:31]
Surround yourself with the right people

[00:42:33]
and try to bring products to market
that you can generally get excited about.

[00:42:39]
Beyond just what your family tells you.

[00:42:42]
You’Re doing a great job.
Yeah.

[00:42:45]
Tell me, where did the name come from?

[00:42:47]
The boss dog boy.

[00:42:50]
Here’s one where you can spend hundreds

[00:42:53]
of thousands of dollars to
run ideation sessions on brand names.

[00:42:58]
But we’ve always done it just with a
collective group of people over dinner.

[00:43:01]
And this was one where
it took a few weeks.

[00:43:05]
And by the time we ended up getting there.

[00:43:07]
It seemed like the obvious move.

[00:43:09]
And we were thrilled that we were able
to secure the trademarks for both cats.

[00:43:14]
All right.
I think it speaks very clearly.

[00:43:17]
Any pet can be a boss, whether you’re
a guy or a big guy dog or a cattle.

[00:43:23]
To treat your pet like a boss.

[00:43:25]
That is awesome.

[00:43:27]
That is awesome.

[00:43:28]
I forgot to ask you this.

[00:43:31]
Big box stories.

[00:43:32]
I have interviewed some people we’re

[00:43:34]
working with their distributors and their
clients and all that kind of stuff.

[00:43:39]
We’re going, great.

[00:43:41]
Then they get the big box order that’s

[00:43:44]
multiplying their business by ten, and
then the big boxes beat them up on price.

[00:43:49]
And I know one person I interviewed where

[00:43:52]
the business had to fold
because they got so beat up.

[00:43:55]
Yeah.

[00:43:55]
So tell me, have you worked with big
bosses, and how has that been?

[00:43:59]
Yeah, I’ve done a lot
of business in Arkansas.

[00:44:02]
I’ve done a lot of business in Isaquois.

[00:44:05]
All right.

[00:44:06]
I can say that we’ve done a lot of club
business, and the mentality has changed.

[00:44:11]
So when we started in the game,
it was a far more cut throat in and out.

[00:44:16]
Whereas you might get into one of these

[00:44:19]
big box format stores, and if you didn’t
meet the hurdle rate, you were gone.

[00:44:23]
Right.

[00:44:24]
It was suicide for an entrepreneur because
you had million dollars in packaging.

[00:44:29]
I know they’re a lot more sensitive
to that now, and they don’t want your

[00:44:33]
business, their business, to constitute
more than 10% of your overall business.

[00:44:37]
At least that’s been
because of what’s happened in the past.

[00:44:43]
But I’ll tell you,

[00:44:44]
when you’re ready to make the move
into big box format,

[00:44:50]
what I’ve done in the past
is I’ve done it regionally.

[00:44:53]
And so typically,
they want a national campaign

[00:44:56]
for a national program, but typically,
you can dictate a regional rollout.

[00:45:01]
So 21234 roll out.

[00:45:03]
Okay, that helps a little
bit with the cash need.

[00:45:07]
Yes.

[00:45:08]
But go and read the old Walmart story

[00:45:12]
on the Vlassic pickle, and it basically
will reiterate everything that you just

[00:45:18]
said to me about young company
goes in, gets price squeezed.

[00:45:22]
And that was many years ago on how Blastic

[00:45:25]
became so dependent on this format
they weren’t able to pull out,

[00:45:31]
even though margins and pricing
concessions have been squeezed.

[00:45:35]
All right, I’ll check that out.
Yeah.

[00:45:38]
It’s a great story because that’s a.

[00:45:40]
Brand that I know.

[00:45:44]
But I will say this
to you at the same time.

[00:45:46]
I’ve seen big box format change our

[00:45:49]
business overnight in an
extremely positive way.

[00:45:52]
I bet.

[00:45:55]
Literally, from mediocrity to full scale

[00:45:57]
company overnight, I have more positive
to say about them than I ever would.

[00:46:03]
Negative.
Fair.

[00:46:04]
Totally fair.
I mean, they have an audience,

[00:46:06]
so in the end, you need
an audience to sell your product.

[00:46:10]
Well, we’re not selling luxury cars,

[00:46:12]
so we’re just trying to get
the margin book per unit.

[00:46:15]
We’re trying to drive volume.

[00:46:16]
Right.

[00:46:17]
And routine, I imagine.
Right.

[00:46:19]
Every week or month, whatever.

[00:46:21]
So it’s a routine residual purchase.
I love it.

[00:46:27]
Once you get it in,
maintain and sustain your spot because

[00:46:30]
someone else is always creeping
behind you to take it.

[00:46:33]
Yeah, very true.

[00:46:34]
So very true.

[00:46:36]
Tell me, what do you expect for your

[00:46:37]
business in the next three
to five years down the road?

[00:46:40]
Well, we’re positioned
for growth right now.

[00:46:43]
We’re at an XXX growth
rate every 13 weeks.

[00:46:47]
So it’s almost as if it’s
a brand new company.

[00:46:50]
I’m not exaggerating.
Wow.

[00:46:52]
So part of it is just kind of like I said,
this is brand new for us and that we’re

[00:46:56]
really being recognized as a brand
new company for the first time.

[00:46:59]
The only difference between now and two
years ago, I’m not in front of a pandemic,

[00:47:03]
and I have 13 segments as opposed
to two segments when I start.

[00:47:07]
So we really have a story.

[00:47:09]
So growth, you’re going to see just
a tremendous amount of growth.

[00:47:14]
I’m hitting all the trade
show circuits again.

[00:47:16]
Finally, we got trade shows.

[00:47:20]
In person.

[00:47:22]
Just getting international leads.

[00:47:24]
You don’t do it over the phone.

[00:47:25]
You do an eye to eye handshake or fist,
pound, whatever it is now.

[00:47:30]
Right.

[00:47:31]
I don’t know how to grow a business
from the back seat of my office.

[00:47:36]
I think I give people great credit
that could stay home and build

[00:47:41]
an enterprise, but I haven’t
figured out how to do it.

[00:47:44]
Maybe software based software services.
Yeah.

[00:47:47]
But not in our game.
Yeah.

[00:47:49]
Not for tangible stuff.
No.

[00:47:52]
Even service like what I’m trying to sell.

[00:47:54]
Boots on the ground.
Yeah.

[00:47:56]
Networking.
Yeah.

[00:47:58]
Relationship is what it comes down to, and
that’s very tough to have on a computer.

[00:48:04]
Don’t be surprised if you see multiple

[00:48:06]
brand pillars over
the next couple of years.

[00:48:08]
There’s some other areas
that we think we can bring.

[00:48:11]
Digestive, health.

[00:48:13]
Nice.

[00:48:14]
All right.

[00:48:16]
It’s going to be very focused growth and
hope you hear about us.

[00:48:21]
I’m excited, too.

[00:48:22]
I’m going to ask you a question that has

[00:48:24]
nothing to do with business, but this is
just me not knowing the answer to it.

[00:48:27]
And you probably miss your world.

[00:48:31]
What are probiotics?

[00:48:33]
Or when you see, like, how do you
package probiotics alone so you can.

[00:48:39]
Take probiotics as, like, a supplement.

[00:48:41]
They can either encapsulate them,

[00:48:44]
or you can get them in a frozen state
or a powder.

[00:48:50]
When you buy them wholesale,
are you getting them as a powder?

[00:48:53]
No, I bring them.
My probiotics come in frozen.

[00:48:56]
Okay.
Yeah.

[00:48:58]
It’s just our particular type

[00:48:59]
of probiotic,
we have to introduce them to the medium

[00:49:04]
at the right time, so growth,
and you don’t want to kill them off.

[00:49:08]
So the process is like where we put our

[00:49:11]
freeze dry product through freeze drying
and HPP high pressure pasteurization.

[00:49:16]
All right.

[00:49:17]
There’s a time and a place and a type
of probiotic to introduce during

[00:49:22]
that to get survivability,
or you’ll kill them all off.

[00:49:25]
All right, I should know this.

[00:49:28]
Is it bacteria or special kind
of bacteria or what is a probiotic?

[00:49:32]
Good bacteria for the microbiome.
Okay.

[00:49:35]
The area in your digestive tract
that needs positive development.

[00:49:40]
Good bacteria and there’s bad bacteria.

[00:49:42]
You want the good bacteria to help promote

[00:49:45]
digestion,
passing food all the way through the cold

[00:49:49]
and retinal system, as opposed
to just getting caught up.

[00:49:53]
Without going into details,

[00:49:55]
you eat a yogurt cup a day,
and I guarantee you,

[00:49:57]
you’ll notice differences
in the way your body performs.

[00:50:01]
All right, very cool.

[00:50:03]
We see it now, but it really comes
down to the level of probiotics.

[00:50:06]
That’s why I was saying earlier,
it’s one thing just to say you put

[00:50:09]
probiotics in your product and another
to be able to substantiate the quantity.

[00:50:14]
We get calls all the time from people
saying, my dog was eating a product

[00:50:19]
with probiotics, but as soon as
he switched yours, oh, my gosh.

[00:50:22]
All of a sudden, this and this change, and
it’s typically coat, breath and stool.

[00:50:27]
Oh, nice.
Okay.

[00:50:28]
And we’ve had one client in Chicago say,
your products off the shelf.

[00:50:34]
My dog won’t make it through
the weekend without it.

[00:50:37]
Now, I’m not saying
that the dog won’t make it.

[00:50:40]
I’m quickly, but that’s great.

[00:50:42]
When you hear consumers say, you know,

[00:50:43]
we’ve seen it such benefit from your
product that we don’t want to make a two

[00:50:48]
day substitution, so our
company takes liberty.

[00:50:51]
We take that stuff seriously, and we’ll
overnight the customer or something.

[00:50:56]
Wow.
Yeah, that’s cool.

[00:50:59]
That’s impressive.

[00:51:00]
That’s very impressive.
Appreciate it.

[00:51:02]
It’s been a fun run.
I have an amazing team,

[00:51:04]
and I want to say the heavy lifting
is over, but I think it’s just begun.

[00:51:09]
We got a lot of headwind
in front of us still.

[00:51:15]
I’m trying to think of the body
builder that said it.

[00:51:18]
He says people don’t look like me because

[00:51:20]
nobody wants to lift
any heavy ass weights.

[00:51:23]
That’s the name of the game, right?

[00:51:25]
You hit it hard and you’ll be successful.

[00:51:27]
That’s awesome.
What’s the saying?

[00:51:30]
If it was easy, everyone would do it.

[00:51:32]
Yeah, so true.
That’s awesome.

[00:51:36]
I appreciate you being on the show.
Thank you having me, James.

[00:51:38]
It was good fun.
Yeah.

[00:51:40]
This has been

[00:51:40]
Authentic Business Adventures business
program that brings you

[00:51:43]
the struggles, stories
and triumphant successes of business owners across the land.

[00:51:47]
We are underwritten locally
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[00:51:50]
If you’re listening to this on the web or
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[00:51:53]
favor, hit that subscribe button,
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[00:51:56]
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[00:51:59]
My name is James Kademan
and Authentic Business Adventures is

[00:52:02]
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[00:52:05]
for service businesses across
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[00:52:08]
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[00:52:13]
Offering business coaching services for entrepreneurs looking for growth

[00:52:16]
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[00:52:18]
And of course the Bold Business Book, a book
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[00:52:21]
Available wherever fine books are sold.
We’d like to thank you,

[00:52:24]
our wonderful listeners, as well as our
guest Basel, the owner of Boss Nation.

[00:52:29]
I didn’t ask you where people can find
all your stuff.

[00:52:33]
Bossdogbrand.com, bosscatbrand.com
or bossnationbrands.com.

[00:52:38]
Easy enough.

[00:52:40]
I love it.

[00:52:41]
Like a boss.

[00:52:42]
This is perfect.

[00:52:43]
Past episodes can be fun.

[00:52:45]
Morning, noon, and night, the podcast link found at drawincustomers.com. Thank you for listening.

[00:52:49]
We’ll see you next week.
Want you to stay awesome.

[00:52:51]
And if you do nothing else,
enjoy your business.