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Noelle Stary – 20 Lemons – A Marketing Company
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You have found
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Authentic Business Adventures, the business
program that brings you the struggles
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stories and triumphs and successes
of business owners across the land.
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Past episodes can be found on the podcast
link at DrawInCustomers.com.
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We’re locally underwritten
by the Bank of Sun Prairie.
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My name is James Kademan, entrepreneur,
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author, speaker and help for coach, to
small business owners across the country.
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And today we’re welcoming/
preparing to learn from a second time.
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Noelle Stary, the founder of 20 Lemons and
the author of Main Street Moxie. Noelle,
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how are you doing today?
I am doing great.
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Thank you so much for having me back on.
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Yeah, this is exciting because it’s been
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it’s been a changing time
almost on a used to be daily level,
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but I imagine now it’s more weekly.
I have to tell you.
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So to your point, I feel like when I’ve
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been working with people,
they generally have been saying, hey,
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I can figure out what I’m
doing today and this week.
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And now I’ve got people telling
me here are plans for the summer.
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We have progressed from like a month,
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a week or a day to like saying this is
what I’m doing the next three months.
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And it’s been pretty exciting.
That is cool.
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I’m going to call that progress.
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Yeah. Maybe. It’s interesting.
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Earlier this morning,
I had a company try to sell me on a phone
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system, which we were,
I’ll call it, lukewarm on.
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But one of the things one of the caveats
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with the they wanted
a three year contract.
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Oh.
And I’m like, no, no.
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One, because contracts of any term,
I kind of.
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That’s 1985 stuff and three years? I’m like,
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who knows what’s going
to happen in three years?
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Yeah.
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And the guy’s like it’s not a big deal if
you have to get out of the contract,
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you only owe us half of the value
of the contract remaining.
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That could be thousands of dollars.
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So.
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So anyways, it’s interesting that someone
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had the stones to ask that,
but whatever all the power to them.
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Yeah, great.
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How has 20 Lemons been doing?
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20 Lemons, we’re a full
service marketing agency.
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We’ve been busy.
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You know, I, I had put out
the book that we talked about last time,
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Main Street Moxie back in January
and some point around January
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2021.
You know, I was talking to business owners
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and they were essentially either saying,
I’m 30 percent up, I’m 30 percent down.
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I can’t handle the stuff
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if we’re up, I can’t handle
the stuff we’re down.
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And I would say that,
you know, I’m talking to business owners
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now and they’re saying I’m ready
to start doing some long term planning.
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Hey, we’re still a little down,
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but my team is stronger or hey,
we’re a little bit down,
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but I’ve situated my new products and I’m
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clear that we’re changing our market
space over the next nine months.
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And so
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I feel like people are getting some
clarity for like where they want to go.
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And they are absolutely
investing in driving forward.
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No one’s sitting, no one sitting
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on their hands like
there’s no one that I’m talking
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to that said, I’m just keeping
status quo and everything’s moving.
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Tons and tons of change is happening
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on on daily, weekly, monthly basis within
businesses to try to push things forward.
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Yeah, interesting.
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You know, it’s funny you say about the people
that are just sitting on their hands.
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Any time I talk with those people,
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I’m like, I don’t need
to talk with you anymore.
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It’s like, you kind of bring me down.
Yeah.
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When you’re when you’re talking about just
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sitting idle and just
watching what happens.
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Right.
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Like you’re just watching
a kid on a diving board.
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Let’s just see how this plays out.
Right.
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Yeah.
Yeah.
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You need to be active the master of your
own destiny kind of thing.
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Yeah.
Yeah.
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I’m seeing tons of traction
happening all over the place.
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All right.
Yeah.
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Different media channels or marketing
channels than were previously?
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Yeah.
So interesting.
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I think social media has been like,
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let’s kind of start with a conversation
around social media.
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Social media has
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during this process gotten noisy.
Right.
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Like a lot of people that weren’t
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on social said, I need to get on to social.
Changes have been happening on Facebook,
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on, hey, we’re not
giving out as much data.
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We’re cutting down.
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We’re giving more we’re
putting privacy back in.
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Facebook has? Facebook. Really? Facebook.
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Like from an agency standpoint,
I think management of Facebook, managing
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client accounts has
become more challenging.
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They really and it’s kind of a really
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interesting perspective for a spin,
if you think about it,
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what they’re attempting to do
from my my opinion,
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what they’re attempting to do is they’re
saying, I don’t want there to be what’s
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occurring or I don’t want there
to be fake news occurring.
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I want to make sure that everything is
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kind of coming authentically
in real time from someone who’s engaging.
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You know,
we’re seeing certain things where videos
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that you’re putting on one platform
can’t be utilized on multiple platforms.
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Really? They want the content that you’re
showing to be authentic to their platform.
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And so in one sense,
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they’re trying to drive the user to have
more loyalty and not really just say,
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well, I’m on twenty platforms and I’m
just repeating data all over the place.
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Right.
Yeah, so, so, so it’s changing this
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ecosystem where you want to be,
where people are talking.
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Let’s even talk like what’s do you know
what the hottest new social platform is.
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Clubhouse, I heard so many talk about
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Twitch today, but. So I’m seeing tons
of action happening on Clubhouse,
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so like Clubhouse. What’s clubhouse?
James.
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Just gave away my age here.
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I’m going to invite you to Clubhouse.
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So clubhouse is kind of a platform
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that allows for people to jump
in and out of audio chat rooms.
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So no video.
So here we’re all Zoom fatigued.
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Oh, my gosh.
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I can’t jump on to more video chats.
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I don’t want to do it.
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You have an opportunity here to kind
of say, hey, I want to see who’s talking
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about small business marketing
on Clubhouse and different chat rooms
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open up and you can jump in and you
can listen or you can chime in.
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I have colleagues of mine that are are
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running chats and people
come and they listen.
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And so it’s like an engaging environment.
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I it’s kind of new.
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I mean, we have we are not
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we are not managing or working
with clients on Clubhouse,
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but we are working with clients that are
utilizing it themselves at this point.
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All right.
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Who who or what type of business would be
ideal for that Clubhouse?
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So people that I’ve seen on Clubhouse
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right now, I have an event
planner who’s on it.
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So they’re talking about upcoming trends.
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How do you run parties outside?
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How do you run socially distance parties?
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How do you handle corporate training
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events when people are
getting back together?
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A second person that I know that’s very
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involved in it, she’s
in the meetings industry.
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So, again, same industry
to people in the same industry.
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I have a book publisher that’s starting
to look at it and dabble on it.
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Some of the early adopters,
I think they’ve kind of mentioned they’re
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like so-and-so invited me
to be on a panel on clubhouse.
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And so it’s multiple people that are kind
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of getting together to kind
of create engaging dialog.
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So, again, instead of the idea of him
picking up my phone and I’m reading
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articles about what’s going on,
I’m getting real time
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dialog that people are talking about
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on topics right now,
today, right this second.
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But it’s audio? It’s audio.
Strictly audio? Strictly audio.
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So how do you scroll and just
kill time with audio?
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I don’t I don’t think
that’s the objective of it.
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I really think the objective of it is
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to almost like get people off of scrolling
right hand and listen, I’ve not seen it.
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And yeah.
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And so maybe when I’m doing stuff,
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so I’ve had so one of my girls that I work
with who’s in event planning,
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she she actually kind of to your point
about, oh gosh,
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how do we handle the scrolling situation,
she says, I kind of get off a clubhouse.
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She’s like, I have my kids at home.
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I’m like running errands on my phone.
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And I just keep clubhouse and I keep
jumping from room to room to room.
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And they’re talking
about different topics.
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And so she just kind of leaves it running.
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It’s almost like when you’re home and you
leave the news on in the background just
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so that you’re like,
I just want to hear what’s going on.
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Yeah.
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So I think there are people are
using it a little bit like that.
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Interesting, huh?
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It really changes the idea of I want
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to know what people are talking
about or thinking about this minute.
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And does it?
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Boy, so many questions here
when somebody posts something
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on Clubhouse, is it live
or is IT a recording and then.
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No, it’s live.
It’s live.
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And then how long does it stay on there?
Does it stay on there.
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All right.
So now you are starting to ask me
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questions that are out of my realm.
OK, fair.
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I haven’t played with it that much,
but I guess I guess where I’m really kind
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of going to, it is, you know,
we’re seeing people using
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traditional social, we’re seeing, to your point,
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you even mentioned another platform,
we’re seeing new platforms kind of still
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kind of coming out,
new styles that people want to interact.
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And so I think where the challenge is,
is there’s a ton of noise in the channel.
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Yeah.
And so social in the social channels.
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Right.
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I don’t think that that that’s
necessarily a bad thing.
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If you’re going to start diving
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in and saying, no,
I want to get more niche,
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I want to talk to her, what I want to talk
about or what I want to listen to.
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And so I think you’re going to get some
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more of these opportunities
to just get into these
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tighter microcosms
for where you want to be.
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All right.
Interesting.
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Well, I’ll have to check that out.
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I’m almost afraid to check it out.
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It’s a little scary because, like,
I never really got on Instagram because
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from my mind,
there’s one more thing to suck time.
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Yes.
I don’t need any more time sucks.
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I don’t I’m probably not going to become
a smarter person by jumping on there.
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So therefore, no time suck. I’m out.
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I pay my people to throw stuff out there.
Yep.
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So it looks like we’re on there, but I
don’t, I don’t need to deal with it.
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Yeah.
So it’s interesting like oh another one
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which I get because I wouldn’t mind
a shift, I guess the social media shift.
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Right.
I think that’s necessary.
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But man,
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I don’t want to be a player in that field,
at least not on a personal level.
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Maybe on a business level
you can outsource it.
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Yeah.
Yeah.
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So I think I think we’re seeing a ton
of that type of stuff that’s happening.
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I will even tell you some of the stuff
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that we’re pushing or
that we’re talking about.
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And I think there’s some validity to it is
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we’re going back to some old school direct
mail pieces to your local neighborhood.
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You know, it’s interesting that you say
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that with the window company that I have
going on that has given us the most
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success. I believe it because you’re home,
you want to be doing stuff local.
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You you know, we’re doing we’re,
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we’re pitching a lot of the concept
of just around the corner.
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You know, like we’re not asking you to go
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from New Jersey to Manhattan,
New Jersey to Philly.
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We’re saying, hey, by the way,
you’ve been in your house.
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Did you forget that we serve this awesome
pizza right down the street from you?
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Mm hmm.
All right.
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And then you’re like,
oh, my God, I forgot.
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I love that place.
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I just forgot about because I keep sitting
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in my own, like, ten by ten
office in my basement.
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I don’t know.
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We’ve got a little bit of,
like, nicer weather coming up.
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I think that there’s opportunities
for people to go back to their roots
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with like local town
and community based marketing.
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People want to stay
and thrive where they are.
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Yeah.
So we’re kind of that, huh?
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That’s cool.
Yes.
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Interesting how we tried online marketing
a different channels, social channels
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and some banner ads.
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Ad words, all that jazz, but good old
fashioned direct mail actually produced.
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Isn’t that crazy.
I know, because at some point you would
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have said no one’s even looking
at their mail right now.
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But, you know, it’s funny.
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My mailbox is my adventure.
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Pretty much my whole life on my house.
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What showed up, I give
my Amazon box didn’t show up.
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My mailbox came.
Right.
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So I check out one or the other and it
kind of gives me an opportunity.
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And I’m not I’m not eating
lunch with 20 people.
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I have a chance to actually look
at least what’s kind of coming through.
[00:14:04]
Right.
That’s a good point.
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That’s so interesting.
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I remember getting made fun of
maybe a year and a half two years ago
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when I was talking to some people
about using postcards and mailers.
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And they’re were like, oh,
my gosh, what is this?
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Nineteen seventy nine.
Come on, there’s a whole Internet.
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I don’t know if there’s something
to be said for when the mail comes in.
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You have to look at it
and make that judgment.
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Do I ignore this, do I toss it or
whatever or do I look at it.
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Keep it.
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You can’t not look at it
but you have to make that judgment
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where I feel like with a lot of banner ads
or a lot of online ads,
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we’re so used to seeing them that we
almost ignore them intuitively.
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So I don’t know.
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I have no scientific
evidence to back that up.
[00:14:53]
Well, there I think there is some
scientific evidence about that.
[00:14:56]
You know, like we get used to seeing
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things in certain spots and then
we become blind to them.
[00:15:02]
And so you have to actually switch where
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they are, switch their color,
switch their whatever
[00:15:09]
to start noticing it again.
Right.
[00:15:12]
Interesting, huh?
[00:15:13]
Yeah, that’s kind of fun.
[00:15:15]
You know, it’s kind of funny.
[00:15:16]
I mean, I draw like what I’m really
thinking about is you’re saying is this
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know my boyfriend jokes with me about how
I keep tinkering with stuff in the house
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like I thought were set,
I thought were set.
[00:15:26]
And then I’m I start moving
stuff all over again.
[00:15:29]
And I guess I guess kind of to the point
[00:15:31]
that you just said, I’m like, I guess
I feel like I need a new environment.
[00:15:34]
I just keep switching it up a little.
[00:15:35]
You know, they get different.
[00:15:38]
You see it so often.
[00:15:39]
Eventually you’re like,
I need a change of scenery,
[00:15:42]
even if it’s the same scenery that I’ve
seen just moving it around it.
[00:15:46]
Yeah.
Oh, that’s funny.
[00:15:49]
So have you added clients or the clients
that existed to expand with you? It’s OK.
[00:15:54]
We, we’ve kind of a little
bit of all of the above.
[00:15:58]
I think the existing clients
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what I’ve seen is existing clients are
[00:16:04]
still kind of going through ebbs and flows
of, hey, we’re doing a push,
[00:16:11]
you know, sorry.
[00:16:12]
Let me let me take a step back.
[00:16:14]
I think where people are is they’re
like I still have a lot on my plate.
[00:16:17]
Sure.
And so with existing clients,
[00:16:21]
people are saying, hey, I can make
a big push on something right now.
[00:16:24]
And then they get busy operationally
and then they say, OK,
[00:16:27]
we made some changes operationally,
let’s make another push on this.
[00:16:31]
And so that’s what I mean by when I’m
saying the ebb and flow component.
[00:16:35]
And then
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we are seeing new increase coming through.
[00:16:40]
We are seeing interest in
[00:16:46]
getting new information out there and this
is the part that I think is interesting,
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is I think people are being creative
about what they want to do.
[00:16:53]
I think people are saying they’ve had
enough time where they’ve had stuff
[00:17:01]
shifting around in their heads and they’ve
had enough stuff where they’ve been able
[00:17:04]
to think about, well,
what is this really going to mean?
[00:17:07]
Or How can I bring something to market?
[00:17:10]
And I, I am specifically working with it.
[00:17:14]
I’m happy to mention their name
and working with a really interesting
[00:17:18]
pair of women,
a leadership development book called Grit,
[00:17:23]
Grace and Gravitas,
Grit Grace and Gravitas.
[00:17:29]
And they come from a really strong
[00:17:32]
corporate leadership
and training background.
[00:17:35]
And the book was ready in the summer,
actually, and they actually said
[00:17:44]
we’re waiting until after
the election to put this out.
[00:17:47]
And and now that we are in the process
of putting it out and it’s now
[00:17:54]
March.
Right.
[00:17:56]
Right.
Like one of the questions is why now?
[00:17:59]
Like, why why are we distributing
this now in March versus
[00:18:06]
August or September,
[00:18:08]
when it was ready to go, it was done
and the book and I really love the subject
[00:18:14]
matter and I love to talk about it for a
second, is Grit Grace and Gravitas.
[00:18:19]
And it says,
when and I am very summarizing this book.
[00:18:24]
It says, when leaders
are in a state of stress, they move in to
[00:18:33]
task and time delegation who’s getting
[00:18:37]
stuff done and when is it
going to be in my hands?
[00:18:40]
Yes.
And.
[00:18:43]
The difference of what makes an exemplar,
an exemplar, a very and a leader who sets
[00:18:53]
a good example
and gets the best results with the best
[00:18:57]
team is able to connect with their
team on a very human level.
[00:19:04]
And when they’re starting their
conversations instead of jumping
[00:19:07]
into what’s the task and when it’s done,
it’s, hey, how are you today?
[00:19:12]
What’s going on with you?
[00:19:15]
Where are we at?
[00:19:17]
How can I help support
you to get this done?
[00:19:20]
Great.
When are we going to have it done by.
[00:19:22]
And they have this sense of grace.
[00:19:25]
And the conversation was as a country
[00:19:29]
during the month of August, September,
October,
[00:19:34]
there was a lot of stress on the ecosystem
that even if you gave this book to someone
[00:19:41]
who isn’t in a leadership position and you
said to them, hey,
[00:19:45]
you should read this book,
it’s going to help you get through
[00:19:49]
the hurdle that you’re at,
the person would go
[00:19:52]
in theory, great.
[00:19:55]
I’ll put it on the side and I’ll
get to it when I can get to it.
[00:19:59]
That’s what happened to my book all
[00:20:00]
the time. Or or they’re going to look at
it and they’re like, that’s really great.
[00:20:05]
There’s really good stuff here.
I’m really busy.
[00:20:07]
I got to go back to what’s the task?
[00:20:09]
What am I getting it done?
[00:20:11]
And they’re not going to be
able to implement it.
[00:20:14]
And so when I talk to a lot of business
leaders and by the time December rolled
[00:20:18]
around this year, they were basically
like, I’m burnt out, I’m exhausted.
[00:20:23]
I can’t think and so I feel like,
you know, I’d love January a little bit
[00:20:29]
because I feel like it’s a little
bit of the great hibernation.
[00:20:33]
And as much as God gave us the pandemic,
[00:20:36]
he also gave us a whole
lot of snow this year.
[00:20:39]
And I think I think what it actually did
[00:20:43]
is it gave everyone a chance to be like, I
can’t even go to the food store anymore.
[00:20:47]
Like if the food store or my mailbox was
[00:20:49]
my big outing,
maybe we’re not even getting mail today.
[00:20:53]
And so it kind of, I think,
slowed stuff down, enough right.
[00:20:56]
And we’ve had all these other
things that have been slowing down.
[00:21:01]
That as we’ve emerged from January,
February, the business owners are saying,
[00:21:08]
all right, I know what I want to be
doing for the next three months.
[00:21:12]
And so the idea of releasing this type
[00:21:14]
of book now also brings to the market this
idea of, hey, we’re going to meet you
[00:21:20]
where you’re at and the market’s
now ready to read this.
[00:21:23]
So we’re so and so, you know,
[00:21:26]
CEO might have been busy and slammed
and couldn’t think straight.
[00:21:31]
In September, October, November,
[00:21:33]
maybe as we’re coming into this new
season, there’s a chance to say.
[00:21:39]
Maybe we all just need to slow
down a little to speed up, right?
[00:21:43]
We’re not just trying to survive.
[00:21:45]
We’ve kind of moved past survival mode.
[00:21:49]
Now, how do we
figure out how do we work more effectively
[00:21:54]
with who we’re with and how
we’re with them?
[00:21:57]
And so so that’s that’s an example
[00:21:59]
of someone that we’re
working with right now.
[00:22:01]
And we were just having this conversation
[00:22:04]
because we’re getting ready
to put the press out.
[00:22:06]
And one of the questions that we’re
really answering is why now?
[00:22:11]
And I think their answer is.
[00:22:17]
Like they said it and I and I thought
to myself out of the other 30 or 40
[00:22:21]
business owners that I work with,
this hits the nail on the head.
[00:22:25]
And this makes sense to me,
because these owners are at a point right
[00:22:29]
now that they could read it and actually
absorb it and implement it where I don’t
[00:22:35]
think that that was the option
six or eight months ago.
[00:22:39]
You know, it’s interesting.
[00:22:41]
We were in a.
[00:22:43]
And we’re almost in a fight or flight
[00:22:46]
story like what’s going
to happen next kind of thing.
[00:22:50]
What new mandate is going to come down
to try to smack us in the face as a small
[00:22:54]
business or as a business,
regardless of size?
[00:22:57]
What new challenge we’re going to get
[00:22:59]
from working with the general
public or employees?
[00:23:03]
Stuff like that.
[00:23:04]
So I could see how they’d want to pause.
[00:23:08]
And I have to tell you, when
[00:23:10]
when these conversations were
happening in August and September.
[00:23:17]
I didn’t get it.
[00:23:19]
Like and I think and I think that’s OK,
right, like I think there’s this, like,
[00:23:25]
acknowledgment that has to happen
in business to like you don’t you
[00:23:29]
definitely don’t always
know what’s going on.
[00:23:31]
And, you know, when the pandemic started,
the conversation was, hey,
[00:23:35]
we’re all busy building parachutes
while we’re already out of the plane.
[00:23:39]
Oh, yeah.
And by the way, they didn’t even give you
[00:23:42]
the material to make the parachute yet,
like you’re hoping to catch it midair.
[00:23:46]
We got a great little sheep.
Right?
[00:23:49]
Right.
[00:23:49]
Like, I’m going to grab
whatever I can get is going.
[00:23:53]
And and it’s kind of like we’ve made it
[00:23:55]
past the point of jumping out
of the airplane, getting the parachute.
[00:23:59]
We kind of made it to the ground and now
we’re like, all right,
[00:24:03]
what else is on the ground that I could
use to, like, move things forward?
[00:24:07]
And and so I think we I
think we as a nation are.
[00:24:14]
Progressing.
[00:24:17]
I see it when I talk to.
[00:24:20]
People by coastal, I see it when
I talk to people internationally,
[00:24:26]
so it’s an interesting spot.
[00:24:28]
And then I think the next part becomes
[00:24:32]
and I know you and I touched
on this for just a second, is is.
[00:24:37]
How do you start thinking about
your long game again, right?
[00:24:42]
Yeah, it’s no longer about survival.
[00:24:43]
By next week, yeah, it’s OK.
[00:24:46]
This has been going on for years,
so we should have adapted by now.
[00:24:51]
And it’s time to move on.
[00:24:53]
I mean, in your opinion,
do you feel like you’re seeing.
[00:24:58]
Are you how far out do you think
people are thinking at this point?
[00:25:05]
So I like to use my wife as a as
[00:25:08]
a barometer,
because her and I came from different
[00:25:12]
perceptions in regards
to the whole pandemic.
[00:25:15]
I was like initially.
[00:25:19]
So March, we’ll call it early March.
[00:25:22]
I’m like there is no way that they
would shut down the economy, no way.
[00:25:29]
And then I was wrong,
and then I said there is no way
[00:25:33]
that they’re going to spend trillions
of dollars, which is the better part
[00:25:36]
of our annual gross domestic product
to try to crush this thing up.
[00:25:42]
I was wrong.
[00:25:44]
And then I thought, there’s no way
that people are going to be afraid to go
[00:25:48]
places just universally because they think
some zombie apocalypse is going to happen.
[00:25:52]
I was wrong.
[00:25:54]
My wife is like, bolt the doors,
lock it up, board the windows.
[00:26:00]
I mean, the zombie apocalypse is here
and we are ill prepared
[00:26:04]
not to the point that she was hoarding
anything or anything like that.
[00:26:07]
She was just example number one,
[00:26:11]
we would go out to breakfast
every Sunday morning.
[00:26:13]
Oh, it’s kind of fun.
[00:26:15]
We’d always try to hit a different
diner or some different place.
[00:26:19]
Just we’re in Madison.
[00:26:20]
There’s cool restaurants.
[00:26:21]
We try to hit different
places every Sunday.
[00:26:23]
It’s kind of fun.
Little family thing.
[00:26:25]
So March rolls around that hit the skids
[00:26:29]
like, no some like, hey, we’re going to
breakfast and she’s like, are you crazy?
[00:26:34]
Right?
There’s a pandemic, right?
[00:26:36]
The scary little word.
[00:26:38]
And I’m like, I think
we can still eat eggs.
[00:26:40]
I don’t think we’re cool.
Right.
[00:26:42]
People wash their hands.
We’re good.
[00:26:45]
And she’s like, no way.
[00:26:47]
So that we hadn’t gone out to breakfast
[00:26:50]
for, well, up until two weeks ago and I
was like, how far do I joke about this?
[00:27:00]
Do I say, you know what I mean?
[00:27:02]
Like, I I have to tell you, we are
going on our first dinner date tonight.
[00:27:08]
Nice.
Congrats.
[00:27:09]
I was trying to figure out.
[00:27:11]
I don’t actually know when
we fully stopped going out.
[00:27:15]
I was trying to think about this actually
today because today’s today’s the day.
[00:27:21]
Falchi says it was one year ago today
[00:27:23]
that I made my first public
announcement about them.
[00:27:27]
And I remember definitely doing St.
[00:27:31]
Patty’s at our house last year.
[00:27:33]
And I absolutely know that I didn’t shut
[00:27:37]
my coworking spaces down
until end of March.
[00:27:40]
So I definitely know.
[00:27:41]
Must have been end of March.
[00:27:43]
But once, to your point, once we
kind of like lock down that was it.
[00:27:47]
Like we just didn’t go anywhere.
[00:27:49]
And today, today, sometime in the next few
[00:27:54]
hours, I will be going to my first
restaurant for dinner.
[00:27:57]
Nice.
[00:27:59]
Get the hazmat suit ready.
Oh, it’s so funny.
[00:28:04]
It was interesting also because
my wife and I went to dinner,
[00:28:09]
I think it was a couple
of weeks ago as well.
[00:28:11]
And the restaurant that we went to is
[00:28:14]
first time we went
to this restaurant ever.
[00:28:17]
And you could tell that they used to have
[00:28:20]
I don’t know if you’ve ever been at one
of those restaurants where they have
[00:28:22]
a long bench and then they have the tables
and then so one person’s on a chair,
[00:28:27]
the other person’s on a bench,
and it’s like a speed dating set up.
[00:28:30]
Yeah, but you could tell this used to be
[00:28:32]
like that, but now they’re six
feet apart between the tables.
[00:28:35]
No one’s looking around and I’m thinking
this is cooler now than it would have been
[00:28:40]
if it was set up like
that whole speed dating thing.
[00:28:43]
Because I don’t want to have
a conversation with the person next to me,
[00:28:46]
because if I wanted to, I would
have asked them out to dinner.
[00:28:48]
Yeah.
[00:28:49]
So it’s just a weird like there are
certain things that are positive.
[00:28:53]
And it was it was Thursday
night and that place was.
[00:28:56]
I wouldn’t call it perfect,
[00:28:58]
but I would say there was
a surprising number of people.
[00:29:01]
I think people are so OK,
so back to the barometer of your wife.
[00:29:05]
So where’s where’s her
temperament right now?
[00:29:08]
Like what she’s doing?
[00:29:09]
Well.
[00:29:11]
So I kind of I make fun
of her a little bit.
[00:29:15]
We’ve been married a long time, so I can.
[00:29:18]
I take it back, I made
fun of her all the time,
[00:29:21]
we got a seven year old kid,
seven year old kid really likes baseball.
[00:29:27]
We traveled with him in order for him
to play baseball because locally
[00:29:33]
there was fear rolling around.
[00:29:35]
So like,
does the virus not travel out of town
[00:29:39]
like it stops at the border
or something like this?
[00:29:42]
I had no problem with the kid playing
[00:29:44]
baseball, but she was like,
we can’t do anything right.
[00:29:48]
Like we can’t go to breakfast,
but we can play baseball.
[00:29:51]
Like, it’s
[00:29:53]
kind of weird.
[00:29:55]
So now that springtime and eventually
[00:29:58]
summertime are rolling around,
we’re gearing up for all these sports.
[00:30:02]
Yeah.
See, you’re on the three month out plan.
[00:30:05]
You’re thinking summer
[00:30:07]
and I would be ready.
It was nice enough.
[00:30:09]
I thought I’d be like,
let’s play ball today.
[00:30:10]
No problem with it.
[00:30:11]
But I would have said that in December
or April, I had
[00:30:17]
from my point of view, I was just like,
I don’t think this is that big of a deal.
[00:30:22]
And this is
[00:30:23]
my wife and I have had that argument
way too many times, way too many times.
[00:30:30]
Your clients, if you had to split them,
are they 50 50 on the side? Like,
[00:30:35]
do they tend to hedge more
on one side or the other?
[00:30:40]
The majority of my clients are service
based and typically service based.
[00:30:46]
We’ll call it 75 percent where
they’re going into people’s homes.
[00:30:50]
Oh, OK.
[00:30:51]
So so they have to be on the side
that it’s not a big deal.
[00:30:54]
They have to be for their livelihood.
[00:30:56]
So they take precautions.
Right.
[00:30:58]
There’s masks.
There’s gloves.
[00:31:00]
I even have a
[00:31:02]
massage therapist.
[00:31:03]
She’s not going in people’s houses.
[00:31:05]
People come to her,
but they had a rocky time.
[00:31:08]
And I wouldn’t say if I feel like they
[00:31:10]
made a couple not great business decisions
in closing up and stuff like that.
[00:31:16]
Well, for a very long time,
but I think they were a whole,
[00:31:21]
like ready to go experiment with some
virus somewhere kind of thing.
[00:31:26]
Yeah, just kind of creepy when you think
[00:31:27]
of getting a massage by someone
in a hazmat suit or whatever.
[00:31:30]
Yeah,whatever.
[00:31:32]
They’re everyone’s
adopting in their own way.
[00:31:35]
But the majority of our clients,
[00:31:38]
some of them would do stuff where they
would ask the homeowner
[00:31:42]
if they’re comfortable being in the house
with them or if they want to be
[00:31:45]
in a different part of the house or just
whatever. Because you’re talking about
[00:31:49]
like an electrician or a plumber coming
in to fix some little thing,
[00:31:53]
you know, where they’re going
to be in there for an hour or two?
[00:31:55]
Yeah, it’s like one,
[00:31:57]
you probably want to be in the house
just from a trust point of view.
[00:32:00]
But you also don’t want to be breathing
[00:32:01]
down my neck because
breathing is a bad thing now.
[00:32:04]
Yeah, so I would say.
[00:32:08]
Man, April, May of last year,
they had stuff figured out.
[00:32:13]
And there are a lot of them are
in the construction trades,
[00:32:16]
so construction here is going gangbusters,
construction has been off the charts.
[00:32:22]
I think it looks really phenomenal.
[00:32:26]
I jerseyed today.
[00:32:28]
I don’t know where you guys are at 4:00 or
I don’t know if it’s today or tomorrow.
[00:32:31]
I kind of lost track for a minute,
[00:32:33]
but we’re essentially moving from 30
percent capacity to 50 percent capacity.
[00:32:37]
Gyms are moving to 50 percent capacity
for restaurants and bars.
[00:32:41]
You’re talking restaurant bars.
Yeah, yeah.
[00:32:44]
We only a week ago or something like
[00:32:47]
that moved to 50 percent, 50 percent,
which was a huge behind you.
[00:32:51]
Right.
[00:32:51]
Like, I have to tell you, the 30 percent
didn’t really seem like a big deal.
[00:32:55]
And then all of a sudden we got to 50.
[00:32:57]
And I’m like, that’s a pretty that’s good.
[00:33:01]
I mean, well, we’re moving.
Right?
[00:33:04]
Right.
Yes, 50 percent.
[00:33:06]
I’m like, OK, now at least if your.
[00:33:10]
If you were ahead of the if you’re doing
[00:33:12]
well as a business before the 50 percent,
you’re not doing well,
[00:33:17]
but you may be able to survive
at twenty five percent or 30 percent,
[00:33:23]
even if you’re at 100 percent capacity
of the 30 percent, you’re losing money.
[00:33:28]
There’s no there’s no survival
there if that’s long term.
[00:33:31]
Yeah.
So that’s why I’m like,
[00:33:33]
there’s no way they can shut down
an economy because like all of a sudden
[00:33:36]
when they open up, there’s no
restaurants, then what do we do?
[00:33:38]
Yeah, I used to joke.
[00:33:40]
I’m like, if you want to get in the
restaurant business, just wait a year.
[00:33:42]
They’ll be for sale for cheap.
[00:33:44]
Yeah, yeah.
[00:33:46]
I mean, I, I think, you know,
[00:33:48]
I’ve seen some of my restaurants switched
from selling BTC to going to like, hey,
[00:33:53]
we’re going wholesale and starting
going into retail stores.
[00:33:56]
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
[00:33:57]
I’ve seen some of my restaurants do that.
[00:34:01]
Some of my guys were in the process.
[00:34:03]
We’re talking about, hey,
we’re going to be doing more.
[00:34:06]
We don’t want to be
doing as many practices.
[00:34:08]
We’re going to close breakfast
because no one’s commuting.
[00:34:11]
We’re going to be doing
lunch and dinner businesses.
[00:34:13]
So people are kind of shifting their times
[00:34:18]
is to the point that we
talked about before.
[00:34:20]
Some of them just said,
[00:34:22]
I’m totally you know,
I have a I have a catering
[00:34:26]
facility that does have already pre-built
outside structures that were in place.
[00:34:32]
So they don’t even have to do tents.
[00:34:34]
They have outside pre-built spaces.
[00:34:37]
And their wedding business is up
[00:34:40]
exceptionally because
almost no other wedding venues
[00:34:45]
have that traditionally as part of their
stock standard locations, right?
[00:34:50]
Yeah,
[00:34:51]
I see corporate starting to kind
of come back and booking.
[00:34:55]
Fama’s coming back and starting
to book stuff that’s
[00:34:59]
really hot off the press likelast week.
[00:35:03]
Yeah, OK.
[00:35:05]
Fama’s finally starting
to open up their gates.
[00:35:09]
So we’re kind of, you know,
I see stuff, move it.
[00:35:12]
And this is the part where I start saying,
[00:35:15]
oh my gosh, like in six months,
are we going to be like pandemic?
[00:35:18]
What pandemic?
[00:35:19]
It’s like, you know, you kind
of start asking the question, right?
[00:35:23]
That’s when you start thinking about
what does the future look like?
[00:35:25]
But are we going to do
cutbacks again come next winter?
[00:35:31]
You know, like and the conversation that I
was having with a colleague of mine this
[00:35:36]
morning was whatever systems you put into
place to make yourself pandemic ready.
[00:35:42]
We’re not just lost.
Right?
[00:35:45]
Like,
[00:35:46]
if we have another reoccurrence or issue
or something comes up next fall,
[00:35:51]
next winter,
you’ve already kind of figured out,
[00:35:54]
all right, how do I operate
in my new ecosystem?
[00:35:57]
You’ve been there before.
You’ve done it right.
[00:35:59]
And so you’re able to kind
of make some shifts with that
[00:36:04]
because it’s I know I was trying
to figure out our our masks here to stay.
[00:36:09]
God, I hope that
[00:36:12]
the conversation I had this morning was,
[00:36:13]
yeah, I think they’re going to be part
of like a longer term plan for a while.
[00:36:16]
And to your point, you know,
I’m like, summer is coming.
[00:36:20]
It’s getting nice.
People are opening stuff up.
[00:36:23]
I, I think
[00:36:26]
people really are running the gambit still
for like kind of almost like you you do
[00:36:30]
your wife like I think you
guys live in the same house.
[00:36:33]
You have a kid together and like you’re
[00:36:35]
still probably pretty
opposite on a lot of thoughts.
[00:36:39]
So definitely I think I think the general
[00:36:42]
economy is going to feel that way,
too, for a while.
[00:36:45]
But,
[00:36:48]
you know, I don’t think that the money
[00:36:50]
that’s being invested
in the economy is being wasted.
[00:36:53]
I think I’ve seen a lot
of innovation come out.
[00:36:56]
I’ve seen a lot of teams be rearranged.
[00:37:00]
I see people spending.
[00:37:01]
I see people wanting to buy,
changing their market.
[00:37:05]
We talked about it last time
that we talked about the book.
[00:37:08]
I think businesses audiences have changed,
like they have changed the services
[00:37:15]
that they sell and they’ve
changed who they’re selling to.
[00:37:18]
Right?
Yeah, I think.
[00:37:20]
What if you have.
Yeah, yeah.
[00:37:22]
It’s interesting.
I hate to use the word pivot because I
[00:37:24]
feel like that’s been overused,
but in the end, people understand it.
[00:37:29]
I mean, there’s a
there’s a lot of industries that I think
[00:37:34]
have had to change their way
of doing things ready or not.
[00:37:38]
I’d be interesting if this fires back up
[00:37:40]
in the winter again, I think it’s
going to be a different game.
[00:37:43]
And I mean, I say this
[00:37:46]
with full disclosure that I’m
terrible at predicting the future.
[00:37:52]
The government was kind of helping people
survive and they’re helping a lot
[00:37:55]
of businesses, from my point of view,
from what I’ve seen,
[00:38:00]
a lot of businesses weren’t profitable
that well before the pandemic.
[00:38:05]
Now they get this crutch money
and it’s helping them limp along
[00:38:09]
and blaming covid for like,
oh, you know, we’re surviving.
[00:38:12]
Think we got that P.P. loan,
which for some businesses,
[00:38:16]
that was a that was a life saver
to get over this little period.
[00:38:20]
But for other businesses, it was like,
well, thank goodness that happened because
[00:38:24]
we didn’t know how we were going
to survive this year before the pandemic.
[00:38:28]
So I wonder, in the wintertime, 20, 21.
[00:38:32]
Can we afford to crush those businesses
[00:38:35]
again, or do we have to find some
other means to not need that crutch?
[00:38:41]
Yeah, I mean, I definitely think part
of the krutch part of the crutched money
[00:38:48]
really needed to be used to restructure
businesses to be able to handle next year
[00:38:55]
if it’s with the big if. If you had to go
back to a 30 percent occupancy,
[00:39:01]
what does your new 30 percent
occupancy situation look like?
[00:39:04]
Yeah, well, but I mean, but, you know,
like we talked about,
[00:39:08]
it is X amount more money coming
from virtual or coming from X or coming
[00:39:12]
from new partnerships
that you’ve developed.
[00:39:14]
And so have you been able to kind
of create new things to to get there?
[00:39:20]
Yeah, that’s fair.
That’s fair to be.
[00:39:22]
Maybe diversify your income a little bit.
[00:39:25]
So you’re not just relying on like
in the restaurants case for line on your
[00:39:28]
Friday and Saturday nights
to bring home 80 percent of your profit
[00:39:32]
when like, well, crowds
aren’t a thing anymore.
[00:39:36]
So, yeah, you know, you’ve got
to rely on the whole week.
[00:39:39]
So it’s.
Yeah.
[00:39:41]
Interesting dynamic.
[00:39:42]
I definitely don’t have
answers in that regard.
[00:39:46]
Yeah.
It’s going to hope it goes away by then.
[00:39:49]
And it’s kind of like the whole 9/11 thing
[00:39:51]
where like we got TSA and all
that because of this.
[00:39:54]
And now that’s your reminder that this
happened, you know, years ago.
[00:39:58]
It’s kind of funny.
[00:39:59]
Someone mentioned compare
this a little bit to 9/11.
[00:40:03]
Totally.
Yeah.
[00:40:05]
You know, I’d love to hear your opinion on
that because they were basically saying,
[00:40:10]
yeah, like it was kind of well,
[00:40:13]
or I’m guessing this is
where you’re going with it.
[00:40:14]
You’re like, hey,
[00:40:15]
it’s an outside influence that just
came in kind of bomb the thing.
[00:40:19]
Quote unquote,
[00:40:21]
we’re adapting to it and then we’re
shifting into like, all right,
[00:40:24]
that set some new baselines or framework
for us and here’s our new framework.
[00:40:30]
I feel this is probably more of an
insult to society than anything else,
[00:40:36]
but I don’t think that we have the
attention span for something really bad.
[00:40:41]
So 9/11 was a really bad thing, and then
things happened from that and kind of.
[00:40:47]
Just as the general like that’s 20 years
[00:40:49]
ago, right,
I mean, generations are there’s people
[00:40:53]
that can vote now that
didn’t experience that.
[00:40:57]
And you and I both know exactly where
we were when we saw that going on.
[00:41:02]
Like, you were just like, whoa.
[00:41:04]
And we didn’t know, like, what does
that mean for the next two hours?
[00:41:08]
What does that mean for the next month?
[00:41:10]
Like you’re just in shock.
[00:41:12]
Yeah, like
[00:41:14]
do I go to work?
[00:41:16]
And I suppose you’re I imagine
you’re right down there.
[00:41:18]
So that was a million times worse
than it is for us in Wisconsin.
[00:41:22]
Yeah.
Like that would be crazy.
[00:41:24]
I can’t even imagine what it was to be
within one hundred miles of that place.
[00:41:28]
Yeah, right.
Yeah.
[00:41:29]
Surreal, right.
[00:41:31]
But then eventually we’re just like.
[00:41:32]
But it did, it didn’t stall us out.
Right.
[00:41:35]
Like I’m not stalled out from having
made other decisions in my life.
[00:41:40]
Right.
To some degree.
[00:41:41]
Right.
Right.
[00:41:42]
Right, right.
[00:41:43]
Like you’re like, OK,
this was a moment in time.
[00:41:45]
It occurred
[00:41:47]
there were repercussions and then we
moved on to the rest of our lives.
[00:41:51]
Right.
[00:41:51]
So are you afraid to go
in a tall building?
[00:41:53]
No, no.
[00:41:55]
I mean and I’m sure
that there are some people.
[00:41:57]
But I mean, I think as a majority,
[00:42:02]
we we are an adaptive creature, really.
[00:42:08]
And those social adaptive creature.
Yeah.
[00:42:11]
So I feel like this just adds that,
like, we got to be social.
[00:42:15]
We’re social animals all the way.
[00:42:17]
So this a month
[00:42:19]
after a year, I was hoping I was going
[00:42:21]
to be three months because I saw the hope
multiplier like twenty two point five,
[00:42:25]
like, oh, it’s going to be
done in three months.
[00:42:28]
We can do that kind of thing.
[00:42:31]
I definitely remember
thinking when it all started.
[00:42:34]
Right, like you have like
a very different perspective.
[00:42:36]
When you think back, I’m like, why would
they be doing all this crazy stuff?
[00:42:40]
Right.
We’re not going to need this.
[00:42:43]
This doesn’t make sense, right?
[00:42:45]
You know,
[00:42:48]
hindsight, twenty twenty
kind of thing, yeah.
[00:42:50]
Yeah, but I mean but I definitely feel
[00:42:53]
tons of more positive energy
when I’m talking to people.
[00:42:58]
A lot of hope.
A lot of
[00:43:01]
here’s my plans for the future.
[00:43:02]
I don’t I don’t get a huge
sense of fear when I talk to.
[00:43:08]
Business owners, totally fair.
[00:43:09]
Absolutely,
yeah, I don’t I mean,
[00:43:12]
you guys have a typical winter,
just like we do in Wisconsin.
[00:43:16]
So I mentioned there’s the typical
hibernation that happens.
[00:43:19]
And then springtime,
[00:43:20]
when you start getting warm weather,
the doors are open, closer coming off.
[00:43:25]
Not all of them, but some kind of thing,
[00:43:27]
you know, like it’s this new if you’re
out of the cocoon kind of thing.
[00:43:31]
Yeah.
And that’s every year.
[00:43:33]
We’re just used to this every year.
Yeah.
[00:43:34]
So I think.
[00:43:37]
You know, and I’m just spitball in here
[00:43:39]
not to think about it like a lot of places
got snow this year that did not normally.
[00:43:44]
Texas way West Coast,
[00:43:46]
all that kind of stuff, or they’re just
like, what is this white powdery stuff?
[00:43:49]
Yeah, you know,
[00:43:50]
so they kind of get to experience maybe
on a lesser scale or maybe arguably
[00:43:54]
on a bigger scale,
since they’re not used to it.
[00:43:56]
This whole cocoon thing
into the butterfly.
[00:43:59]
It’s a cleansing.
We’re open.
[00:44:01]
It’s new.
It’s fresh.
[00:44:02]
Let’s roll.
Well, and this is the thing.
[00:44:04]
I think they’re I mean, listen, right.
[00:44:06]
Like people talk about like
the beauty of seasonality for a reason.
[00:44:11]
Right?
I do think.
[00:44:16]
You know, there is still
spring before summer.
[00:44:21]
I do still think that we have to
we’re not just emerging, right?
[00:44:26]
We’re not we’re not fully cocooning.
[00:44:28]
Hey, we went from winter to summer
[00:44:30]
overnight in enforcing this
transition period right now.
[00:44:36]
And I think that people are coming out
[00:44:40]
of this definitely in a different spot
than when where they went into it.
[00:44:45]
Totally agree, totally agree.
[00:44:47]
Yeah, it’s certainly changed things,
but I feel like we’re coming out of it.
[00:44:52]
I feel like I don’t trust me.
[00:44:54]
Yeah, I feel like we’re coming out of it
[00:44:59]
in a clean way, whether it
made us better people or not.
[00:45:01]
You could argue both directions.
[00:45:02]
But, yeah, I believe
we’re coming out of it.
[00:45:05]
I think we’re I think
we’re coming out of it.
[00:45:07]
And I do think I’m seeing most
of the businesses that I’m working
[00:45:11]
with coming out of it with new sense
of clarity as to how they’re running their
[00:45:16]
business or how they’re
managing their business.
[00:45:18]
You know, I think a lot
of the restauranteurs that I work
[00:45:21]
with said I’m going to cut all my staff,
I’m going to go back to doing everything
[00:45:25]
myself to again,
like you’re managing cost.
[00:45:28]
Like like.
[00:45:30]
As a business owner, your you know,
[00:45:32]
I remember when this whole thing happened,
I remember my business coach said to me,
[00:45:37]
the only objective you have
is to not kill your business.
[00:45:41]
You just need to let it survive to get
[00:45:45]
through like and I remember
in the beginning, I’m like the like,
[00:45:50]
again, like almost like when you talk
about the people, you’re like, what,
[00:45:53]
two point three, two point five
times the amount that’s crazy.
[00:45:58]
Like, you know, I, I don’t think
[00:46:01]
restauranteurs might have said
I’m going to get rid of my staff.
[00:46:04]
This is only going to be
a month, two months.
[00:46:05]
I can kind of run it.
[00:46:07]
And then and that’s where I think
[00:46:08]
the exhaustion,
the burnout kind of kicked in.
[00:46:11]
But I think people are starting to say,
wait, I can work differently or I can work
[00:46:15]
with a different set of team or,
you know, most of my restauranteurs as
[00:46:18]
we’re going into the summer,
they’re basically saying,
[00:46:21]
I am bringing up I will have a totally
brand new staff than I’ve ever had before.
[00:46:26]
Now it’s almost as if
[00:46:29]
it’s almost like opening a brand new
restaurant, like some of our biggest bar
[00:46:34]
locations said it’s not worth it to try
to stay open through the winter.
[00:46:39]
We’re just going to start in the spring
was to try to bring people back.
[00:46:43]
We’re just going to try to do this.
We’re going to do that.
[00:46:45]
Wow.
[00:46:46]
And and part of the logic to it was at
some point you were killing the morale.
[00:46:52]
When it was like less staff or no one
in or people kept getting sick or you’re
[00:46:57]
shutting your closing or
opening, you’re shutting.
[00:47:00]
And so again, I think.
[00:47:04]
They’re really like at some point needs
[00:47:07]
to almost be a kudos to the business
owners as they’ve gone through this,
[00:47:10]
because being able to kind of keep
the morale and positivity through those
[00:47:15]
time periods, I think
has been a challenge.
[00:47:17]
And so when I go back and I start talking
to my clients that have this book coming
[00:47:22]
out, great grace and gravitas,
gravitas to me in March of twenty twenty
[00:47:29]
one is a whole different story than if
someone gave me this book in February or
[00:47:35]
March of twenty twenty,
definitely March, you know, really,
[00:47:41]
really different story, you know,
but I think we’re at a different point
[00:47:45]
where we’re hearing that story different
today than we would have back then.
[00:47:50]
Yeah.
You know, it’s interesting you say about
[00:47:52]
keeping the morale with the employees,
because I.
[00:47:57]
I will actually still do
I guess it’s one of the positive changes
[00:48:01]
here is that there was I realized
that there was some talk among the ranks
[00:48:08]
and I only have four employees, so it’s
not like I was in them or anything.
[00:48:12]
There’s talk among the ranks that they
[00:48:13]
were worried, probably from watching
the news or whatever,
[00:48:16]
that we were going to shut down or
that we were going to cut employees
[00:48:20]
because they’re hearing, you know,
they’re like a sewing circle.
[00:48:23]
So I imagine they can circle
the drain just like any other group.
[00:48:27]
But they probably hearing from some of our
clients that they’re worried as well.
[00:48:30]
And universally, there was just this
this big question mark in the air.
[00:48:35]
And I reached out to them, said, look,
no one’s losing their job,
[00:48:39]
like my job is to keep my promise to you,
which is that you will have a job.
[00:48:43]
It’s all I got to do.
[00:48:45]
And then we have to do our job to make
[00:48:47]
sure that we answer the phones and take
care of the business that we got for our
[00:48:50]
clients, that they can do
the same for their employees.
[00:48:54]
That’s it.
[00:48:54]
There’s no there should be
no fear about losing a job.
[00:48:57]
Nothing.
[00:48:58]
Like outside of some nuclear fallout or
something like that,
[00:49:04]
where phones don’t exist or I
can’t even imagine the scenario.
[00:49:08]
You’re cool,
and I was sending emails every month
[00:49:12]
to our client saying, we got your back,
whatever you need, we got your back,
[00:49:17]
we’ll take care,
help yourself from whatever we can do.
[00:49:21]
And it was interesting because there were
[00:49:23]
some clients that I normally don’t hear
from that sent me an email thanking me
[00:49:27]
for that,
that it was almost a morale booster
[00:49:29]
for them because they were kind
of feeling down in the dumps.
[00:49:32]
Well, I mean, even, you know,
like so I run a marketing company and then
[00:49:36]
I we have some coworking spaces
that we’re involved in and.
[00:49:42]
To your point, marketing is a sport
[00:49:45]
to most business owners, right, like
we’re not a corporation where support.
[00:49:50]
And so I was like having
the conversation where I said.
[00:49:56]
You know, our job was to kind
of like cheer on our our.
[00:50:02]
Cheer on our
[00:50:05]
clients and then at some point,
[00:50:07]
like even to you, to what you’re saying,
some of them came back at some point
[00:50:10]
and they said, by the way,
how are you guys doing?
[00:50:13]
You know, like they’re like you’re
so busy kind of taking care of us.
[00:50:17]
Is anyone checking in on you?
Right.
[00:50:19]
And we do have other
people checking on us.
[00:50:22]
We get support elsewhere.
[00:50:23]
But it’s like sometimes everyone was just,
[00:50:27]
you know, it was like you had
to pass the love around, right.
[00:50:30]
Like you did.
[00:50:31]
Who could give it?
[00:50:33]
The objective was just everyone
couldn’t need it the same day.
[00:50:38]
Right.
[00:50:38]
Like you needed someone who can pass
it or give it or whatever the case is.
[00:50:42]
And this is where I think this is also.
[00:50:46]
As opposed to 9/11, this is the first time
[00:50:49]
because I didn’t feel it
in 9/11, but I felt it.
[00:50:52]
Now this is the first time
I really felt how
[00:50:57]
interwoven my different industries
were or my different locations were.
[00:51:03]
Sure for, you know,
[00:51:06]
people that are working overseas or,
[00:51:08]
you know, I felt this is the first
time effects on global global effects
[00:51:17]
that I’ve never felt I
haven’t felt before.
[00:51:19]
I haven’t felt when there was a recession
here, I didn’t I did not feel it in 9/11.
[00:51:27]
And I might have just been too
young or green for that.
[00:51:32]
But this is the first time that I felt
it on like a very global perspective.
[00:51:36]
Interesting.
[00:51:38]
Yeah, that’s fair.
[00:51:39]
Like, the whole world was essentially
[00:51:41]
going through something
similar versus 9/11.
[00:51:45]
It was more observation
from the rest of the world.
[00:51:47]
Yeah.
Or, you know, like some of the programmers
[00:51:50]
I work with are overseas or different
teams that I work with are overseas in.
[00:51:56]
And, you know, like me saying, hey,
we’re finally being let out of certain
[00:52:00]
stuff and they’re being set and they
tell me, I can’t leave my house.
[00:52:03]
There’s a little guy with a gun outside or
[00:52:08]
I like you.
[00:52:09]
We are we I like it.
[00:52:11]
But it goes back to that like.
[00:52:13]
All right, then I need to recognize wait
a minute, maybe they’re kind of having
[00:52:17]
a bad day or maybe they’re having a bad
day because maybe they’re thinking,
[00:52:21]
you know what, I’d really
like to go outside today.
[00:52:23]
I’m not allowed to ride.
[00:52:24]
And so being able to work with your team
differently to kind of understand where
[00:52:29]
they’re at, I thought was really
important through this process, too.
[00:52:33]
Interesting.
Yeah.
[00:52:35]
Yeah, that would be tougher.
[00:52:37]
There were times, I guess I felt like I
[00:52:38]
was in a very large prison because you
can go outside, but it was 20 below.
[00:52:44]
Yes.
And like you’re in your house,
[00:52:45]
it was kind of like you can go anywhere,
but where would you go?
[00:52:48]
Yeah, I feel like the big joke when I
spoke to a lot of people are they’re like,
[00:52:53]
I’m actually using all the rooms
in my house now,
[00:52:56]
like like, oh, that’s the dining
the formal dining room that no one uses.
[00:53:01]
And now you’re like, you know,
I, I use every room in my house.
[00:53:06]
That’s our office.
Now,
[00:53:09]
I think the coworking space is probably
a good metric for what is going on.
[00:53:13]
So is going.
Yeah.
[00:53:15]
So coworking has been really interesting,
[00:53:19]
I would say for the greater last several
[00:53:23]
months, the average the average office
space utility has been ten percent.
[00:53:29]
So when we think back to the comment
[00:53:31]
that we had about restaurants and can
restaurants operate at twenty five,
[00:53:36]
30 percent capacity,
and you kind of look at it and you’re
[00:53:39]
like, no, at least if we’re going 50,
you’ve got options.
[00:53:42]
And even before you had
to still get creative,
[00:53:47]
most offices have not
been operating above 10 percent.
[00:53:52]
However,
[00:53:54]
as we are starting to see a little bit of
the weather changes as we’re seeing some.
[00:54:01]
Really, I feel like it’s weather changes
[00:54:04]
because even most of the other
coworking spaces that I know that do.
[00:54:09]
That started implementing more virtual
programs, virtual programs are great,
[00:54:14]
but if at the end of the day,
your metric is office space rental
[00:54:17]
and utilization, unless there’s butts
in the seats in the doors coming in,
[00:54:24]
your metrics is not that right?
[00:54:26]
And we are seeing increases in inquiries.
[00:54:31]
We’re seeing people saying, hey,
[00:54:34]
I want to make sure that I have enough
space allocated for my team to come back.
[00:54:39]
So how teams are starting to come back
is starting to look a little different.
[00:54:44]
I we there has been predictions
[00:54:47]
in the coworking environment that bigger
companies are going to be shutting down
[00:54:51]
their bigger offices and trying
to relocate to local places.
[00:54:56]
And for months, this has been the.
[00:55:00]
This is what we’re going to see,
but I hadn’t started seeing it.
[00:55:03]
I am just starting to see
those increased come in now.
[00:55:07]
All right.
[00:55:08]
Not immediate.
[00:55:10]
Like they’re they’re like, hey,
we’re starting plan for two,
[00:55:13]
several months out,
but the inquiries are coming in.
[00:55:18]
So I do think that there are
some positivity with that.
[00:55:21]
I think people are definitely going
to want to be getting out and
[00:55:26]
seeing people.
[00:55:27]
I don’t know if people are going to be
[00:55:28]
going back into major high
rises out of the gate.
[00:55:31]
I don’t think I don’t see a ton of that.
[00:55:33]
I do think local community bases,
places are going to do great.
[00:55:38]
I think we’re going to do
great in that perspective
[00:55:42]
for this particular industry.
[00:55:44]
I think it’s like you’ve
just got to ride that wave.
[00:55:46]
All right.
[00:55:48]
So you guys wouldn’t be at 100 percent,
100 percent of the time.
[00:55:52]
So what was the norm,
let’s say, in 2019 and of 20, 19?
[00:55:58]
Percentage wise, we’re talking
[00:56:00]
over one hundred percent capacity, I mean,
over 100 percent while you operate, right.
[00:56:05]
Like part of how coworking
works is like a gym.
[00:56:09]
If every single member of a gym showed up
[00:56:12]
at the same time,
there’s not enough equipment.
[00:56:14]
Gotcha.
OK, but you’re working on the objective of
[00:56:18]
not everyone’s going
to be there all the time.
[00:56:20]
And so it works very similar to that.
[00:56:24]
We probably won’t be doing as
much turnover in common areas.
[00:56:30]
More spaces will become more dedicated.
[00:56:32]
I do think you’re going to see
teams coming in.
[00:56:38]
I am hearing from some of the bigger
[00:56:40]
corporate that they’re expecting their
full teams to be coming in as long as I’ve
[00:56:44]
been in coworking, I think that there is
commentary that that happens.
[00:56:48]
But I think in actuality,
it does not generally happen.
[00:56:53]
So I think people are going to come
[00:56:54]
in like so like what I’ve been seeing
in the spaces is people
[00:56:58]
earlier in the pandemic,
I felt people were coming in,
[00:57:00]
but it was like, hey,
I have a dedicated space,
[00:57:02]
but I’m showing up for an hour
once during the course of a week.
[00:57:06]
Oh, like very select periods of time.
[00:57:11]
I think people are starting to know I’m
[00:57:13]
going to kind of come
in several days a week.
[00:57:16]
I’ll come in a little bit here and there.
[00:57:19]
I’m not seeing like, you know, we also,
as we’ve got when we get busy,
[00:57:25]
I see more people coming in on weekends
and nights or early mornings.
[00:57:30]
I’m not seeing that yet.
[00:57:32]
Like, I’m I’m still seeing people
[00:57:35]
picking periods of time that they come in
during traditional work hours right now.
[00:57:39]
OK.
All right.
[00:57:41]
So. Interesting. If I start seeing changes
[00:57:44]
there, that will be different,
you know, right.
[00:57:46]
The month before.
[00:57:49]
The pandemic or the month of the pandemic?
[00:57:53]
The search for coworking
[00:57:55]
in the United States was at the highest,
it was at a five year high.
[00:57:59]
Oh, so we literally went
like this and like this
[00:58:06]
whole crash,
[00:58:07]
however, that the search
terms are coming back.
[00:58:11]
So we know people are looking
[00:58:15]
and now it’s OK and we start getting
[00:58:18]
the environment to feel right
to bring the people back in.
[00:58:21]
Got it.
It’s been it’s been a whirl.
[00:58:25]
It’s been a whirlwind, you know,
[00:58:26]
but that’s probably been more challenging
than the marketing piece, I would imagine.
[00:58:31]
Definitely more challenging.
[00:58:34]
Definitely more challenging,
so just kind of waiting.
[00:58:38]
So part of it’s been a waiting game,
[00:58:39]
kind of like what the rest of the
restaurants have been a game day.
[00:58:44]
There are so many changes you can do,
but then you’re still capped by.
[00:58:49]
The general environment, right,
[00:58:52]
and I think that’s a little bit more
coworking has been in office space
[00:58:56]
in general has been so I think it’s been
more about how do you change terms?
[00:59:00]
How do you change plans?
[00:59:01]
How do you change like there again,
kind of like the restauranteur that says
[00:59:06]
I’m getting rid of my staff
to cut costs for a while.
[00:59:08]
I think
[00:59:10]
Office Space Management is how
do I manage leases different?
[00:59:13]
How do I manage management
agreements different?
[00:59:15]
How do I manage?
[00:59:17]
You know, I think you’re just
managing different things.
[00:59:22]
Yes, fair, yeah, that’s fair,
[00:59:24]
yeah, interesting, interesting times,
definitely so how you’re
[00:59:31]
a keep on the same marketing Moxie, Main Street Moxie.
[00:59:35]
I just attach you to marketing, so I’m sorry.
Main Street Moxie.
[00:59:38]
How is that book going. Main Street
Moxie is doing great.
[00:59:41]
So, you know, I mean, I wrote it and put
it out during a time that I felt like.
[00:59:47]
Kind of like what we talked about a little
[00:59:49]
bit before, I wanted business owners
to feel like someone’s got their back.
[00:59:53]
Someone’s there with them.
[00:59:54]
They’re not totally alone.
Kind of.
[00:59:57]
I talk about it a lot of stirring the pot.
[01:00:00]
Hey, you may not know everything,
[01:00:01]
but we can at least kind of come up with
some thoughts or ideas of how we want to.
[01:00:10]
You know, you know,
[01:00:11]
like I talk about in marketing,
when we’re coming up with marketing plans,
[01:00:15]
hey, we’re going to stir the pot, we’re
going to come up with tons of ideas.
[01:00:17]
We’re all going to use a few of them.
[01:00:19]
And the other ones we’re going
to put on a shelf for a little bit.
[01:00:21]
And I felt like Main Street.
[01:00:23]
Moxie was the way that I wanted to get out
and let people say, hey,
[01:00:26]
let’s stir the pot so we can come up
with some ideas for how to go forward.
[01:00:31]
I feel like when I’m talking to people
[01:00:33]
today, they’re kind of saying
the piece that they love the most about
[01:00:37]
the book is it’s relatable,
like they’re like, I’ve been there.
[01:00:41]
I get it.
[01:00:42]
I feel you, you know, and I think
I think it’s that idea of just letting
[01:00:47]
people know, like you’re not alone
and you’re getting past things.
[01:00:52]
And then really, I think for me,
the biggest eye opener, though, was,
[01:00:58]
you know, I forget how
much leg during this.
[01:01:02]
There were companies like Schwinn
[01:01:03]
that turned around or took bikes and they
said, wait a minute, I’m 30 percent up.
[01:01:08]
I’m stressed because I have no idea
how to handle this type of like.
[01:01:12]
Yeah, straight.
[01:01:13]
So so there was stress on both sides
whether you were down or you are up.
[01:01:18]
So so everyone had
different had challenges.
[01:01:23]
They were just coming to them
from different angles.
[01:01:26]
You know, that’s fair.
That’s very interesting.
[01:01:29]
Yeah.
[01:01:29]
Interesting times to be a business owner,
that is for sure.
[01:01:33]
It is.
Yeah.
[01:01:34]
I survived
2020.
[01:01:36]
Yeah.
And then twenty one.
[01:01:37]
Well true.
It’s a T-shirt.
[01:01:39]
Pretty awesome.
No.
[01:01:41]
Well I’m sorry.
Go ahead.
[01:01:42]
Now I was going to tell
you one funny thing.
[01:01:44]
I saw a meme this morning and it was like
[01:01:46]
a little chubby boy on a bike riding
really fast, like a home exercise bike.
[01:01:51]
And it said, I thought we were
riding off twenty, twenty one.
[01:01:54]
But now I know summer is around the corner
[01:01:56]
and everything’s opening, you know,
and and I think that’s kind of like I
[01:02:00]
thought it kind of hit the nail
on the head like, you know, I,
[01:02:04]
I think we kind of said we don’t
know what we’re going in for.
[01:02:07]
We don’t know how long
we’re hunkering down for.
[01:02:09]
But you know what?
[01:02:10]
Like we’re all starting to see some
light at the end of the tunnel.
[01:02:13]
And and now we’re like, well, gosh, is it
coming faster than I thought, you know?
[01:02:17]
Yeah, that’s cool.
But that’s good.
[01:02:20]
Thank goodness.
Yeah, I open it up.
[01:02:22]
Kick open the doors.
[01:02:23]
Yeah.
[01:02:25]
How can people find you Noelle?
[01:02:26]
Well
[01:02:28]
you can find Main Street Moxie
online at Amazon
[01:02:33]
or if you want you can definitely check
this out for our marketing company
[01:02:37]
at 20Lemons.com. 20Lemons or the coworking space.
[01:02:43]
We are just in Jersey so we’ve got
[01:02:45]
an awesome website,
CoworkingandJersey.com.
[01:02:48]
Nice.
I love it.
[01:02:50]
That’s super cool.
[01:02:51]
Well, Noelle, I appreciate
you being on the show again.
[01:02:53]
Thank you.
Thanks for having me.
[01:02:55]
Yeah, this has been a lot of fun.
[01:02:56]
It’s
[01:02:58]
challenging, but interesting times.
[01:03:00]
We’ll just call it that.
[01:03:02]
Hopefully next time I talk to you will be
[01:03:03]
full on summertime, right? Oh,
butterflies come out .
[01:03:07]
That’s right.
We can break out of our cocoon.
[01:03:10]
New beginnings here.
Awesome.
[01:03:13]
This has been
[01:03:13]
Authentic Business Adventures the business
program that brings you the struggles
[01:03:17]
stories and triumphant successes
of business owners across the land.
[01:03:21]
We’re locally underwritten
by the Bank of Sun Prairie.
[01:03:23]
You’re listening to this on the Web
[01:03:24]
please give this a thumbs up,
[01:03:26]
subscribe, comment, and share it
with all your entrepreneurial friends.
[01:03:31]
My name is James Kademan
and Authentic Business Adventures is
[01:03:33]
brought to you by Calls On Call offering
call answering and receptionist services
[01:03:37]
for service businesses across the country,
on the web at CallsOnCall.com. As well
[01:03:43]
as Draw In Customers Business Coaching offering
business coaching services
[01:03:47]
for entrepreneurs looking for growth,
on the web at DrawInCustomers.com.
[01:03:51]
And of course,
The BOLD Business Book.
[01:03:53]
A book for the entrepreneur in all of us
available wherever fine books are sold.
[01:03:57]
We’d like to think you our wonderful
listeners as well as our guest,
[01:04:00]
Noelle Stary, the founder of 20 Lemons
and author of Main Street Moxie.
[01:04:07]
Noelle, thank you so much
for being on the show.
[01:04:09]
Thank you.
It’s been super cool.
[01:04:11]
I’m excited to talk
to you in summer again.
[01:04:13]
See how everything’s rainbows and unicorns.
[01:04:16]
I’m hoping.
[01:04:19]
Past episode can be found morning, noon, and night
[01:04:21]
at the podcast link found at
DrawInCustomers.com.
[01:04:24]
Thank you for listening.
We’ll see you next week.
[01:04:26]
I want you to stay awesome.
[01:04:27]
And if you nothing else,
enjoy your business.
