How do you start a brewery business?

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With this podcast you will learn how Nate quit the grind of cubicle life and jumped on the beer and food train. Nate started Rockhound Brewpub a couple years ago and has been navigating success, beer in hand, ever since. You’ll also learn some of the challenges of starting a restaurant, brewing beer and making a go with both. Nate Warnke is the owner of Rockhound Brewing Company. Nate and his crew make beer, food and smiles on Park Street in Madison.

Visit Nate at: http://rockhoundbrewing.com/

 

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You have found Authentic Business Adventures. The business program that brings you the struggle

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stories and triumphant successes
of business owners across the land. Coming

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to you in the sweet, sweet, sweet Draw
In Customers makeshift studio here.

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So we are welcoming today Nate Warnke,
owner of Rockhound Brewing Company.

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Nate, how are you doing today?
Good.

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Thanks for having me again, James.

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I’m excited.
I’m excited.

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And I’ll tell you why, because, one,

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you’re the first person that I’ve ever
had on the show for the second time. Woah.

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So that’s cool, right?
It’s already a big deal.

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Yeah right.
I’m honored.

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Thank you.

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And then second thing,
you’re the first person I’ve had

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on the show that’s in the process
of closing their business.

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Sure.

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So this is I’m excited because
the authentic part of Authentic Business

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Adventures business is
close, man, arguably.

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Well, eventually all of them
do right, nothing lasts forever.

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Eventually, everyone closes.

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It’s just like the covid
thing with death, right?

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Somebody died like, everybody does.

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Nobody gets out alive.
Right.

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At any rate, we’re talking to you.

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You’re closing in a month.
Just a little less than a month.

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OK,
so for the people that don’t know who you

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are and what you do,
let’s just start with the beginning.

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So when did you start your business?

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Why did you start it?

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Just let’s just give
the Cliff’s Notes version.

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Yeah, I’ll give the the two
minute version of that.

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So basically six a little over six years

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ago, I left the corporate job and I
wanted to start a business and

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and I decided that business was going

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to be a brewpub because I
really like the vibe of brewpubs.

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And it was a growing business segment.
All right.

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So I came up

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with Rockhound Brewing Company, which I’m
wearing all the logos today. Nice.

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I go to wear them while I can.

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Sure.

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So, I started Rockhound Brewing Company

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in 2016
and it was kind of my my brainchild,

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my desire to, to make good beer and make
a community around, around a brewpub.

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And then here we are four and a half years
later and we’re working on shut down.

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But yeah, we have a small brewpub,
it’s about a hundred seats.

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All right.
So there’s one hundred seats.

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We, we have one hundred eight capacity

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and I’ll segway into the covid thing
like right now our capacity’s twenty seven.

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Yeah that’s crazy to me.
That’s a quarter.

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And you know it’s one hundred
seats at a small restaurant.

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It is.
And we have a full kitchen,

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so we have a full restaurant, full food menu
and a full brewing operation on site.

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Every one of our beers is brewed onsite

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unless otherwise stated
as a collaboration.

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Sure.

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So I want to make it its
own little community.

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And it was owner operated.

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So that’s basically me.

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And I’ve got a couple of very,

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very dedicated staff and they’ve
been there for my house manager

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she’s been there since day one.
Wow.

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Yeah, I still got the same,

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she wasn’t house manager day one,
but she promoted two years later because

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that was the future
of the of the pub.

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Wow.

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My chef has been involved
since before day one.

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She’s a friend of mine and he was kind

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of a fill in for a while
and eventually became a chef.

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So.
All right.

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This is this is family, right?
So we are family.

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Yeah. And we built up a community,

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we built up a family.

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We had a lot of good time for for the five
years that I’ve been in operation.

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I live six blocks away.

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So it’s in my neighborhood.

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And that’s that’s where we
are today now in covid land.

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And I’m sure we’ll talk
about playing that later.

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Yeah, it’s been a lot of fun for five

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years, but now it’s time
to time to let it go.

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All right. So did you see when you first
started your business,

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what was the goal? What was the end game
or did you have an end game?

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Actually did it.

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When I started the business,
I had I saw the cash flow in beer.

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I saw the cash flow in restaurants.

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And I said, well, you know,
I’m a pretty smart guy.

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I’ve never had restaurant experience,

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but I had homebrewed experience, hired
people who knew more than I did

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from a restaurant perspective
because you hire what you don’t know.

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And I was hoping to bring in some good
cash flow to pay down some loans and then

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turn that cash flow
into real estate property.

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Oh. So,

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my goal was actually to get that thing
self-sufficient, take the cash flow out

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of that and put it into
investment properties.

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OK, just small ones.
All right.

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That was the actual goal when I started

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talking about it six years ago
and then eventually sell the brewpub.

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My assumption was in ten
years to employees.

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All right.

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You know, and employees that were
potentially interested in I did at some

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point have employees who were interested
in buying the thing out.

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And I figured it would be a ten year
plan where I would sell it to them.

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You had employees
that showed interest already?

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Yeah, showed interest.
You know, three or four years in.

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I had employees are interested
in potentially looking at buying it.

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So they loved what I was building.
Sure.

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At the time.

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Is there any reason not
to sell it to them now?

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The economics are totally upside down
for that. Even at that bargain basement price.

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I would I would entertain that.

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But I don’t think any
of my employees have the

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potential for loans or cash on hand to do it.
Sure.

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And I don’t think they’re going to be able

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to get that loan under
the current circumstances.

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All right.
That’s even at bargain basement prices.

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Sure would entertain that.

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But so, like I looked at your.
I looked at your.

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Facebook page, your website,

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you have a following that any
restaurant would be proud of.

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Absolutely.

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When you got over 700 reviews,
the majority of positive of your four

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point whatever, close to five, four
point four, four point three on Google.

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Yeah.
Which is six on Facebook,

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a super awesome super look, because
there’s always anybody that actually.

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That’s hard.
That’s right.

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That’s really hard.
So that’s what I mean.

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There’s value to that.

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Right, because I guess it’s not
necessarily tangible real estate,

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but in the Internet world,
that’s valuable real estate.

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It is.
And that,

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you know, that’s something that I guess is

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a good lesson for any business that’s open
or closed or starting up is that

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I paid a lot of attention to social
media at the very beginning.

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The negative reviews,
I took every one of them seriously.

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All right.

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And, you know, restaurant
reviews can be completely.

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Oh, my gosh.
Right.

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I don’t want to get into the Yelp

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discussion because I had
that the other day with Sony.

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But it’s like you can go anywhere with.

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I was just joking with someone who looked
at the reviews for the Grand Canyon.

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Yeah.
Yeah.

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The National Park reviews.
Yeah.

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Like someone like you that was blogging.
Couldn’t see it.

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Right.

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You know, you go to you go to like Sequoia
National Park, go to many big trees.

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Yeah.
You know, and that’s true for restaurants.

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Five point are like, yeah.

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You know, you go to any restaurants
at the higher end restaurants and the ones

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that are very, very well known
and even they get to star one star.

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Oh, sure.

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Because one, everybody makes
a mistake and we get that too.

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It’s about fixing that mistake.

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Three, you can make no mistakes
and someone still will like you.

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Oh, yeah.
I just be kind of a jerk.

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Haters going to hate,
you know, it’s like, well,

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I didn’t like it because I don’t like
burgers and like, well, I’m a brewpub.

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What do you you know, we, you know,

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we had salads, we had sandwiches,
we had burgers, we had the right we have

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a full menu had slimmed
down a little bit now.

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But, you know,

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there’s something for everyone or
something for vegetarians and vegans.

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And he’s like, I don’t like the place

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because it’s like
the vegan options is like.

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Twenty five percent on my menu
was vegan at one point.

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They didn’t like the vegan options.

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That’s not it doesn’t taste like meat.

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That’s not a Dagan’s vegan.

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I’ll look at the camera that was
shot today against vegans.

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It was just like there’s always going

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to be people that, you know, oh, yeah,
burgers too big, your burgers too small.

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Your steak is whatever you I never

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understood the people that they complained
about getting too much food, correct?

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Yeah.
Like what kind of sheltered life to live.

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Well were that is your complaint.

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You fed me too much food.

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It more often it’s the other way
like oh I left, I left hungry.

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Oh your burgers.
It’s tiny.

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It’s an eighth of upon your
burgers are certified black Angus.

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One third pound.
Sure they’re five point three ounces.

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So someone says smaller
than McDonald’s burger.

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And one of my reviews somewhere they’re
like, you got to be kidding me.

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Wow.

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You know, even our kids burger is
bigger than McDonald’s burger.

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So that’s all right.

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So I paid attention.

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The reviews are very important.

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And and we built up that that reputation

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of taking it seriously, OK, you know,
and making sure we address it.

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Even the people that were completely and I
will say this flat out actually wrong.

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OK, you I arrested and tried to help
massage the conversation and apologized.

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And it’s not crazy when you
a tap dancer, the people at it.

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Yeah.
And, you know, it was like the burgers

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situation is a real situation where she
said the burger was absolutely boring,

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there was nothing on it
and it was too small.

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And I said, well, you ordered
a classic burger, right?

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The classic burger says right on the menu,
it’s just a burger and a bun.

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And then you add you can add cheese

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and lettuce and tomato all for you a
couple of pennies or a dollar for cheese.

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You know, it’s a build your own
burger for reasons to be looking.

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Build it.
How are they all to she complain.

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There is nothing on.
There was no cheese.

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The local cheeses,
a dollar a dollar fifty extra.

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You could have cheese.

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So you know, you had
the massage that conversation.

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I’m sorry.

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Would you like to come
back in and try it again.

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It was just small amounts, third pound.

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We patty them ourselves.
We know there are thirty.

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So but you have to take this seriously
because most people have power

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and Internet is very strong
on the customer side.

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Right.

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Especially in its anonymous
power to a point.

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Right.
In some ways, yeah.

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That’s why I like Facebook, especially
because it’s not very anonymous.

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OK, you have to be yourself
on Facebook, right?

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So you’re James Katamon to a point.
Sure.

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Yeah.
I’m Nate.

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Weren’t you on Facebook?

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You can fake it, but not
very easily on Facebook.

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It takes time to it takes
a lot of work anyways.

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But building up like the Facebook
at one point was four point six.

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I think Google’s four point
three or four point four.

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OK, that’s very high for four,
but it’s over 700 review.

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Yeah, it’s very high for restaurants

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overall as far as, say,
five years and seven hundred reviews.

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That’s incredible to me.

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So to me, I’m like, there’s value there,
there is value there.

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So I think it would be worth,
I don’t know at least

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asking.
Sure.

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I mean just because I’m closing and talk
about whatever you want to there,

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just because I’m closing doesn’t mean
there isn’t value to the restaurant.

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Right.
And, you know, talking to my my primary

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lender, my credit union is the primary
lender that they are SBA secured

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in the SBA looks for deals to get their
money off the books for sure.

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So they’ll take a sweetheart deal
for the SBA to get to get it.

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If someone wants to buy the whole thing

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right as a turnkey restaurant, it’s right
there ready to go even if they want to.

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Take the name off the wall and change

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the name, it’s still pretty turnkeys,
but a couple of grand and you got a name.

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So I was going to ask you about that.
Right.

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Because, one, I want to talk about
lending just to get a restaurant alone.

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Your restaurant, any restaurant,

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when you look at the volume of restaurants
that that come up and then go away.

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Right.
It’s a ton.

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Yeah.
I don’t know what the percentage is or

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what the stats are,
but it’s got to be a lot.

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First five years when I when I opened

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my market research,
when I opened first five years,

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I think it’s 60 some percent
within the first five years.

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Make it or don’t make it.
Don’t make it 60 percent failure.

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Now, that said, so it’s
lending to a losing bet.

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Correct.

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But I have a brewpub and brewpub has
an inherent competitive advantage.

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Again, we’re talking five years ago.
Sure.

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A group of has

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an inherent competitive advantage
because beer is such a big thing.

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People will go just for the beer, just
for the experience of going that route.

[00:10:50]
All right.

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So it was only in around
40 percent failure.

[00:10:54]
All right.

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Winning is better than 50 percent.
Yeah.

[00:10:59]
So it’s not black or red, right?
Yeah.

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You’re you’re you’re better then.

[00:11:03]
It’s better than betting in black and red.

[00:11:04]
Right.

[00:11:06]
But that said,
in Madison area and Wisconsin,

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overall beer it was was on such
the upswing that it was

[00:11:14]
there was no calculated percentage that I

[00:11:16]
could find, but it was a lower
and they just weren’t closing overall.

[00:11:20]
Got it brewpubs.
They weren’t closing in Wisconsin.

[00:11:22]
OK, so let’s go.

[00:11:24]
We like our alcohol look.

[00:11:25]
And that’s what I sold to the
banks and private investors.

[00:11:27]
Got it.
So do they.

[00:11:29]
Was it tough to get money
to open up a brewpub?

[00:11:33]
It is OK.

[00:11:35]
And

[00:11:37]
my my situation was quite the I
don’t want to call it House of Cards

[00:11:44]
or in some waysvery creative.

[00:11:49]
All right.

[00:11:50]
And fabulous to clarify something like

[00:11:53]
this is creative financing
as a term of illegal?

[00:11:55]
No, no, no, no.

[00:11:56]
Not that I’m not laundering money is very
creative in the way that I talk to

[00:12:00]
a lawyer about how to work
on creative financing.

[00:12:03]
OK, so I can get a primary lender through
the SBA, Small Business Administration.

[00:12:07]
They had loans.
This is just a bank.

[00:12:09]
It’s just a bank credit union,
which is a great.

[00:12:11]
So I applied and I talked to

[00:12:15]
almost two dozen banks in the area.
Wow.

[00:12:18]
I had to make my sales pitch sometimes.

[00:12:19]
It was a five minute over the phone like,

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yeah, we’re definitely not interested
because this restaurant base.

[00:12:22]
So you get to know right away
from some boom easy circle.

[00:12:26]
Some said let’s sit down in person.
All right.

[00:12:29]
So I had this kind of sales pitch.
I’ll figure it out.

[00:12:31]
I’ll I’ll I’ll describe
the puzzle house of cards.

[00:12:35]
Simple to make the puzzle whole.

[00:12:37]
I need a bank to give me a good chunk
of the money,

[00:12:39]
60 to 80 percent of that money potentially
coming from bank, OK, or lender.

[00:12:44]
So Turnell being a credit union.

[00:12:46]
And on top of that, I need
some operational financing.

[00:12:49]
So I went through Webcke for some

[00:12:50]
operational financing and I also went
through Medicin Development Corporation,

[00:12:54]
first of all,
OK, and I was able to secure those loans

[00:12:57]
with some private investors who helped
cosign them as well and cosign that.

[00:13:02]
Then I was an honest guy, basically.

[00:13:03]
So cosign being like a like a dad would

[00:13:06]
co-sign for a kid on a car
or something like that.

[00:13:08]
Yeah.
So these are either friends or family or

[00:13:10]
relatives who are cosigning
on that loan too.

[00:13:13]
So they weren’t fronting the money.

[00:13:15]
They’re just essentially
keeping your promise correct.

[00:13:17]
And if I fail in my promise,
then they have to step in.

[00:13:20]
Oh.

[00:13:21]
Does that mean that they
have to step in now?

[00:13:23]
Yes, they do.
Oh so one hundred percent or.

[00:13:26]
Well, the loans are dramatically,
dramatically reduced from what they

[00:13:30]
started out, but some of them
a good chunk of money.

[00:13:33]
OK, so.
Oh all right.

[00:13:35]
I’m going to table that one.

[00:13:36]
OK, I just say the other thing I did was
get a bunch of private investors

[00:13:39]
to to give me between ten
and fifteen thousand dollars.

[00:13:42]
So that wasn’t cosign.
That was that was just cash.

[00:13:45]
They wrote me a check and I and I,
we agreed upon an interest rate and it was

[00:13:49]
basically just like any type of look where
you loan me ten thousand dollars and I

[00:13:53]
give you X percent interest
and pay it back monthly.

[00:13:55]
All right.
I feel like I’m a Democrat.

[00:13:57]
Do I have to feel like I have
to wait for this a little bit?

[00:13:59]
Yeah, you do.

[00:14:00]
Because you got you got the credit union,
then you get

[00:14:04]
Medicine Development Corporation,
then you got WebEx in there as well.

[00:14:08]
Yeah.

[00:14:08]
Weetbix And there’s one
case, there’s a third.

[00:14:10]
Then you have the cosigners

[00:14:11]
for the Willock one or for all three
times were for Lebec and MDC.

[00:14:16]
OK, so those those two guys.

[00:14:17]
OK and then on top of that you have
the individual investor, five, 10 or 15.

[00:14:21]
And how much money are you talking
total to start this thing up.

[00:14:25]
I won’t say the exact amount,
but I’ll say there was it was

[00:14:27]
more than my house cost,
but less than a million dollars.

[00:14:30]
OK, it’s my ballpark.

[00:14:32]
Half million ish, over half a million.

[00:14:33]
I mean, there’s a lot
of stainless steel there.

[00:14:35]
The hoods, the stoves, the staff,
the glasses, the knives, the forks.

[00:14:40]
Yeah, all that stuff.
Yeah.

[00:14:42]
I look at business plans
for restaurants and it’s not cheap.

[00:14:45]
There’s no there’s a lot and a lot
of that went into the stainless steel

[00:14:48]
equipment for the brewing
and then finishing up.

[00:14:50]
Oh just the brewing equipment alone.

[00:14:52]
Forget about the restaurant portion.
Yeah.

[00:14:54]
I’ve looked at plans for stuff like
this financial suicide.

[00:14:58]
You better hope that.
Yeah.

[00:14:59]
Well, I got a good deal
on the brewing equipment.

[00:15:01]
All right.

[00:15:01]
I was actually in the last good deals
before the market took one of these.

[00:15:05]
You know, it does before it right
before the next inflection point in.

[00:15:09]
Wow.
So I got a really good sweetheart deal.

[00:15:12]
All right.

[00:15:13]
They raise the price 40 percent after I

[00:15:15]
signed 40 because people
were willing to pay.

[00:15:18]
And I got one of the last good deals
like Nate, you got really lucky.

[00:15:21]
And I did.
Wow.

[00:15:22]
That saved me a bundle right there.
All right.

[00:15:25]
Just just in being able to sign and they.
Sure.

[00:15:27]
They said your offer was on the table.

[00:15:28]
It was good for X days,
but we just raised the prices.

[00:15:31]
So they didn’t tell me that until after I

[00:15:33]
sign because they didn’t want me,
didn’t want you it as a sales tactic.

[00:15:35]
OK, there was a rule that the companies
in Nebraska, I’m sure, fantastic company.

[00:15:40]
So they did it.
Wow.

[00:15:41]
OK, so you got a bunch of cash in then.

[00:15:43]
Did you have to front any money?
I did.

[00:15:45]
I put in originally I put in 60 grand.

[00:15:48]
OK, and that had to cover a that had
to be 10 percent of the SBA loan.

[00:15:54]
So this was six hundred.
Sure.

[00:15:56]
I had to put in 60 grand.

[00:15:57]
OK.

[00:15:59]
And then on top of that,

[00:16:01]
we did have a couple of infusions of cash
that I pulled in myself, OK,

[00:16:05]
for operational purposes
about six months and it put a touch in.

[00:16:09]
And then this this past winter

[00:16:11]
I rearranged operations and restructured
some loans and a bunch of my own cash

[00:16:15]
again, of course,
right before the pandemic.

[00:16:17]
Did you get any financial help through

[00:16:19]
the PRP stuff or
whatever the case we’re all in?

[00:16:23]
Yeah, I mean, it’s funny
that we’re all in.

[00:16:25]
I was like twenty five hundred
bucks and you get 20 staff.

[00:16:27]
Yeah, right.

[00:16:28]
Well like anything’s
better than something.

[00:16:31]
All right.
I got two grants and I’ve got the loan.

[00:16:34]
OK, I have to file all the paperwork
for forgiveness,

[00:16:36]
but I got the max allowable
by my business, OK, which is good.

[00:16:41]
That’s that’s what kept me alive.
All right.

[00:16:43]
All right.
Interesting.

[00:16:45]
So let’s talk about the decision to close.
Sure.

[00:16:50]
You well, actually, this back
up a step in March, April, when

[00:16:56]
people are starting to be like,
wait, what is this?

[00:16:58]
Yeah.

[00:16:58]
And it’s kind of coming around that this
is the actual thing and we’re going have

[00:17:02]
to deal with this for more
than just a couple of weeks.

[00:17:05]
Tell me what the reaction was.

[00:17:06]
Staff with your people, with your
customers, just maybe even vendors.

[00:17:11]
I don’t know if you had some of them
that just closed up shop or.

[00:17:13]
Yeah, well, there was the other some
vendor issues that was interesting.

[00:17:16]
That didn’t happen until a month or two.

[00:17:18]
And

[00:17:19]
so

[00:17:21]
restaurants typically don’t
do very well in winter.

[00:17:24]
But that said, you know,

[00:17:25]
we lost a little money in January
as expected from this typical.

[00:17:28]
Yeah.
So in February, we made a profit.

[00:17:30]
OK, I made a bookable profit in February
because we changed a whole bunch

[00:17:33]
operations around last fall and I got
rid of things that didn’t work right.

[00:17:37]
So this is just kind of setting the stage
for disappointment in my the systems.

[00:17:43]
Are you improved right over the
in my house manager.

[00:17:46]
We sat down, we said, well,
branches are working.

[00:17:48]
We have to get rid of branch.
We love Branch.

[00:17:50]
We hate the fact that we
have to get rid of branch.

[00:17:51]
But Branch wasn’t working.
So on the table.

[00:17:54]
All right.
Seven days a week.

[00:17:55]
Wasn’t working too hard to staff.
Some dropped.

[00:17:57]
So we go to brunch to get rid of Mondays

[00:17:59]
and let us all sit down
and breathe for a minute.

[00:18:02]
And it turned around our
operations to make it more.

[00:18:05]
And we adjusted the menu

[00:18:07]
to make it more readily sustainable
and and easier to produce with just fewer

[00:18:13]
items and keep it higher
quality at the same time.

[00:18:15]
Keep the customers happy,
keep some of our favorites on there.

[00:18:19]
So fewer menu options, your menu option,
OK, but keep them higher quality and then

[00:18:23]
we’re able to be more
consistent that way too.

[00:18:24]
And that’s a you can go back
to the reviews consistency.

[00:18:27]
Right.

[00:18:28]
The burger was good to stay,

[00:18:30]
but not so good the other day is the
burger should always be cooked the same.

[00:18:33]
The policy should always
be cooked the same.

[00:18:35]
So we did that and then we adjusted
the hours a little bit to to make it

[00:18:37]
easier on our staff
because it’s just hard.

[00:18:39]
We were open over one
hundred hours a week.

[00:18:41]
All right.
So we said that’s not going to work.

[00:18:44]
So that then at that point
we’re open like 75 to 80.

[00:18:46]
So it’s you at what point did you become
what you would consider to be profitable?

[00:18:52]
Well, we’ve had months here and there
that have been profitable

[00:18:54]
for all five years, I guess,
OK, say four and half years.

[00:18:58]
But February we looked at and said
we did it.

[00:19:01]
All right.
We made it the February this year.

[00:19:04]
This year.
Oh, February twenty twenty.

[00:19:06]
And then that left.
Yeah.

[00:19:08]
And then and then

[00:19:11]
I went on vacation and I came back

[00:19:12]
and then I was in Malaysia and covid
was just touching Malaysia right.

[00:19:17]
When my wife and I were in Malaysia

[00:19:18]
on vacation, OK, started reading about it
and that gave me the same thing is like

[00:19:23]
seiners, saryan murres and or maybe it’ll
be like killer bees was H1N1 swine.

[00:19:30]
I got that one.
I got swine flu.

[00:19:31]
That was not fun but OK, you know.
So yeah.

[00:19:34]
Bla bla bla bla.
Maybe we’ll just be like that.

[00:19:36]
It’s no big deal.

[00:19:37]
Like I’m not going to worry
about it until we have to.

[00:19:39]
Sure.
And then so came home and then it started

[00:19:41]
getting the United States and,
and March came around and we saw a notable

[00:19:45]
drop in business in early March before
any of the lockdown discussions this day.

[00:19:50]
You did.

[00:19:50]
Yeah, we saw we kind of we start
scratching our heads because, you know,

[00:19:54]
usually March, March, April, May are
my three biggest months historically.

[00:19:59]
Really?
Yeah, because

[00:20:01]
basketball and sports and all that kind

[00:20:03]
of stuff, people come off like
the university

[00:20:07]
plus people or, you know, waking up,

[00:20:09]
you know, sharing their
from their winter hibernation.

[00:20:11]
Like, I need to go out.
I need to see people.

[00:20:14]
I need to see people, you know,
comfort food, we pot pies and burgers.

[00:20:17]
It’s comfort food.
People love that in March.

[00:20:19]
And then April and May are
just filled with beer events.

[00:20:22]
All right.
Galore.

[00:20:24]
And those beer events bring us
a lot of a lot of business.

[00:20:27]
So beginning in March, I saw I said,
man, we’re 20 percent below last year.

[00:20:31]
20 percent.
Yeah.

[00:20:33]
All right.

[00:20:33]
That was but that’s before before the
official covid, you know, lockdown thing.

[00:20:38]
Wow.
All right.

[00:20:39]
So this is not good news.

[00:20:40]
No, I said some of that can be attributed

[00:20:42]
to losing money and losing branches, but
that was like 10 percent of our business.

[00:20:45]
So

[00:20:47]
then the lockdown happened.

[00:20:48]
And, um,

[00:20:51]
boy, we had to do a lot of quick
thinking on her feet real fast.

[00:20:55]
Did you guys ever close for.
We never closed.

[00:20:58]
OK, so, you know, ever since March 13th,

[00:21:02]
Friday the 13th was the last regular
day in the world for Wisconsinites.

[00:21:05]
And then we had the Seyfert home order and
the order of restaurants had to close.

[00:21:10]
And that was the 16th,
I guess that would be the Monday.

[00:21:13]
And we had a I had a manager meeting
on that Monday because we were trying

[00:21:16]
to try to figure out how
to operate during the pandemic.

[00:21:19]
And then that order comes through

[00:21:20]
and we’re like, well,
that just made us change our.

[00:21:23]
Sure.
Our tune.

[00:21:24]
Sorry about your profit.

[00:21:26]
Well, the first thing to happen is I had
I had twenty three employees.

[00:21:31]
Oh, OK.

[00:21:32]
And by the end of that day I had two two.

[00:21:35]
We laid off twenty one employees in one

[00:21:37]
day because we looked at it and said well
we can only be open for carry on

[00:21:42]
and that only requires one person
at the bar and one person in the kitchen

[00:21:47]
to just make some stuff
available for carry all day.

[00:21:50]
So all I had was my salaried
managers running the place and me.

[00:21:53]
Wow.
And I was the guy running the food

[00:21:55]
and packaging it up
and taking it out to people.

[00:21:57]
Did you have another Brewer guy
or were you the brewer guy?

[00:21:59]
So I was like, we just shut down brewing
operations because we didn’t, you know,

[00:22:03]
we had enough beer on hand to just kind of
carry through right it through.

[00:22:09]
And then we knew it was it was going
to be, you know, weeks, couple of months.

[00:22:14]
And I was like, I don’t I’ll be two months
that we’ll get this thing under control.

[00:22:17]
We’ll figure it out.
So I’m like, well.

[00:22:18]
And so we quickly hired back part
time just a couple of people.

[00:22:21]
Right.

[00:22:21]
So, look, I own a little
help in the kitchen.

[00:22:24]
So same previous employees or employees,

[00:22:26]
employees, we’re like we’re like,
well, we need to go first thing we do.

[00:22:29]
We said we’ll give you jobs and we can,
you know, current employees,

[00:22:33]
you get first dibs on any jobs, obviously,
because we love you guys.

[00:22:36]
You know your family here.

[00:22:37]
But, you know, my manager,
she she sent the email and she just felt

[00:22:42]
sick to her stomach because she
had about twenty one employees.

[00:22:45]
The email via email.
OK, like that.

[00:22:47]
Just saying we’re sorry.

[00:22:48]
This is what we have to make phone calls
and that one time we just got it right.

[00:22:53]
It was just after he broke up over email.
Yeah.

[00:22:55]
Right,yeah.

[00:22:57]
We broke up with twenty one employees over

[00:22:58]
email, doing some more
part time with someone.

[00:23:01]
We’re full time and this was,
this was their gig.

[00:23:03]
They’re full time bartenders, you know,

[00:23:04]
students that were paying their way
through grad school or whatnot.

[00:23:08]
So who’s the guy that I would always see

[00:23:09]
when I’d go in or the gentleman
beard from the bar.

[00:23:12]
Yeah, that’s Chuck.
So he was on that list.

[00:23:14]
He was on that list, too,

[00:23:17]
as things.
But he’s there right now, literally.

[00:23:19]
OK, we’re recording this.
All right.

[00:23:20]
He’s our cleaning guy right now.

[00:23:22]
So we we are to hire him back when we had
to we’re able to open for full service

[00:23:26]
operation, able to hire him back as a
full service at twenty five percent.

[00:23:30]
Right, exactly.

[00:23:31]
But so what’s your profit?

[00:23:33]
So we had to lay off everybody.

[00:23:35]
We had to revamp the menu so that we
could actually cook it quickly.

[00:23:39]
And my chef is,

[00:23:40]
is he can spin in the kitchen and do
amazing things with just one guy because

[00:23:44]
Carrizo people expect
to order it, pick it up.

[00:23:46]
Right?
Well, they give us a time, you know,

[00:23:48]
so I was in charge, Jamie, my manager, and
she and I were in charge of the phones.

[00:23:51]
We’d answer the phones
and put together the orders.

[00:23:53]
You know, she’d punch them back.

[00:23:54]
They’d come up, you know,
carry out, carry out, carry on.

[00:23:57]
And that worked
quite efficiently for a while.

[00:24:00]
It wasn’t sustainable long term,
but it was efficient.

[00:24:04]
It could pay their salaries.

[00:24:06]
It could pay for the food product.

[00:24:08]
So on a pause, a little bit there.
Yeah.

[00:24:10]
Because you have rent on this place
that you’re having to hustle

[00:24:13]
and you’re at,
I don’t know, ten percent capacity or

[00:24:17]
something, maybe whatever
you want to call.

[00:24:18]
Yeah.
Yeah.

[00:24:19]
Less than normal.
Yeah.

[00:24:20]
We’re doing maybe twenty
percent of the business.

[00:24:23]
So you have in business
you have your static cost.

[00:24:26]
Right.

[00:24:26]
Your rent, your insurance,
all that jazz and then you have your,

[00:24:29]
your dynamic costs that go with
the food and all that jazz.

[00:24:33]
So those static costs are
still a lot of money.

[00:24:36]
It’s a ton of money.

[00:24:37]
So I especially rent in a place
like that, decent size.

[00:24:40]
You get your loans and all that jazz.

[00:24:42]
Did any of those people come to you

[00:24:45]
and say, hey, let’s knock
this down until this passes?

[00:24:48]
Or did you go to them and ask them?
Yeah, that was on.

[00:24:51]
The initial conversations we had was how

[00:24:52]
to look at the loans and look at the rent
and see what works and what doesn’t.

[00:24:56]
Yeah.
Was where people.

[00:24:58]
Do you think school was the landlord cool,
or are they just like poets and

[00:25:05]
he said Gopalan said, luckily,
my private investors immediately,

[00:25:10]
all of them said, nah, just just don’t
worry about the payments for now.

[00:25:13]
Just OK, you will worry about
it after this is all over.

[00:25:15]
So I said private investors,
those think five of them, OK?

[00:25:19]
They also just just don’t worry about it.

[00:25:20]
We’ll come up with a deal later because
they’re all friends and family and.

[00:25:23]
Sure.
Which is unfortunate.

[00:25:25]
That’s going to make Thanksgiving awkward.
Yeah.

[00:25:27]
Well, they’re supposed to do Thanksgiving
this year and you know that I did not.

[00:25:30]
That’s the best holiday
supposed to do Thanksgiving this year.

[00:25:33]
Spread covid anyways.

[00:25:35]
So, yeah, private investors are fine.

[00:25:37]
Landlord

[00:25:39]
did a very instantaneous like deferral.

[00:25:42]
OK, so he deferred the rent

[00:25:44]
for three months right off the bat
themselves with 50 percent deferral.

[00:25:48]
But we’re just going to kick
the can down the road, OK?

[00:25:53]
Right now he said this is
what what we’re going to do.

[00:25:56]
And I said, OK, right.

[00:25:57]
So I paid 50 percent for for three months.

[00:25:59]
OK, so good.
But not great.

[00:26:02]
Yeah, not great.

[00:26:04]
But when you realize that that 50 percent
was more than twenty five percent of what

[00:26:07]
I was bringing in, you can’t be twenty
five percent of your revenue on rent.

[00:26:11]
No that’s so interesting.
It just doesn’t work.

[00:26:14]
When March hit and I remember them,
the shutdown order thing come in,

[00:26:19]
I was like there’s no way that they can
hit the brakes on the economy like this.

[00:26:24]
There’s no way.
Correct?

[00:26:26]
Yeah, it’s hard because the fallout like

[00:26:28]
people losing their jobs and look
at landlord rate,

[00:26:30]
landlords get to pay for the building, pay
for insurance, all this kind of stuff.

[00:26:33]
If if you can’t pay rent,
that person can’t pay their stuff.

[00:26:37]
Well, they got mortgages
on their buildings, right.

[00:26:40]
I mean, this is a huge domino game
that we’re just like kick.

[00:26:45]
Let’s just see what happens.

[00:26:47]
And you hope there’s a gap in those.

[00:26:48]
Yeah, there is just no way
that they would do this.

[00:26:51]
And they this is me being totally wrong.
I totally did it.

[00:26:56]
Well, it’s also worldwide, so it’s not
like we’re the only ones who did it.

[00:26:59]
Yeah.
Doesn’t make it right.

[00:27:00]
Well, right.
But it was worldwide and we don’t have

[00:27:03]
to get into the politics positive,
negative of right.

[00:27:05]
Decisions made in different countries.

[00:27:07]
But

[00:27:09]
it was a worldwide thing where every every

[00:27:11]
country in the industrialized world
especially and even some of the money,

[00:27:15]
they all decided, OK, well,
we got to shut down for a little while

[00:27:18]
and then figure out what
the heck to do later.

[00:27:21]
Right.
So we’re still in that phase, right?

[00:27:24]
That’s the lottery.
So I don’t know that

[00:27:28]
seriously, for six months, we still don’t.

[00:27:31]
But, you know,
it’s a whole worldwide thing.

[00:27:33]
And I think what was most important
to to note is that what we all did,

[00:27:38]
as business owners will always
meet in a restaurant, a landlord.

[00:27:44]
I’m trying to think of a good
and a good business example.

[00:27:47]
You might have been to game like Target,
I’m sure the grocery stores

[00:27:53]
or something.

[00:27:54]
You know, your vendors, right?

[00:27:55]
You get the truck that delivers your food,
all of a sudden they’re right.

[00:27:59]
So let’s look at, say,
what works best for us.

[00:28:02]
So we go back into our own little
box and say, what do I say?

[00:28:06]
Instead of saying we

[00:28:08]
said, what do I need to do to survive
this thing and what do I need to happen?

[00:28:13]
And that’s where the unfortunate decision

[00:28:15]
comes in, where we say, I have twenty
three employees, I only need two.

[00:28:19]
That sucks for the twenty one
that just got that email.

[00:28:23]
Yeah.

[00:28:24]
Yeah, so what do I need to do?

[00:28:26]
Well, to survive this right now,

[00:28:28]
I need to pay my loans,
I need to pay my rent,

[00:28:31]
I need to pay those bills,
and I need to see if I can stay open.

[00:28:35]
And I hate to do this, but I have
to we have to let go of 21 employees.

[00:28:39]
Vendors do the same thing.

[00:28:40]
They one of our main food
vendors cut down their drivers.

[00:28:43]
But just like that, like immediately,
they don’t need to drive trucks all over

[00:28:47]
the state anymore or as many trucks,
I should say, all over the state.

[00:28:50]
So they they cut their driver rolls

[00:28:52]
and hassle all truck drivers
who had a very simple, easy gig.

[00:28:57]
You get in your truck at, whatever,

[00:28:58]
2:00 in the morning or early
in the morning, drive to restaurants,

[00:29:01]
drop off a bunch of food product
and go home and you can sleep it off.

[00:29:04]
Right.
Right.

[00:29:05]
So they had a nice gig
from that perspective.

[00:29:07]
And they just got laid off, too.

[00:29:09]
Yeah, it was a delivery driver for a while
for not exactly a glamorous thing, but.

[00:29:15]
No, not at all.

[00:29:16]
But it was I was I was delivering
beer for I think six months.

[00:29:20]
But it’s consistent.

[00:29:20]
And you were you were a god to right
the beer man.

[00:29:25]
But I don’t know how their gigs went.

[00:29:27]
But I also delivered milk with my dad
for a while,

[00:29:31]
and I like schools and delivering
a half pint of milk to school.

[00:29:35]
That school shut down.
Yeah, right.

[00:29:37]
So we don’t talk about
the press conference.

[00:29:39]
I can’t talk about that.

[00:29:39]
But the other thing we had,
it’s a mess, right?

[00:29:42]
From a business perspective.
The thing it’s I was like,

[00:29:44]
how do we make this a to go menu
and how do we make this working?

[00:29:46]
For a while it was, you know,

[00:29:47]
people calling in and we put
our menu on the website.

[00:29:49]
It was always been on there and we made
sure we updated it through a specials.

[00:29:52]
We just have to update the website,
literally every song to ask you about

[00:29:54]
that as well, every day,
because could people order on the website

[00:29:58]
or did you come up with that or you
just like, well, that’s a great call.

[00:30:00]
That’s that was a great
serendipitous thing we had gotten.

[00:30:03]
So I have a point of sale system that’s
through some a company called Heartland.

[00:30:07]
And it’s it’s kind of older system.

[00:30:09]
It’s it’s like it’s
the phone line and all.

[00:30:11]
Yeah, well, not quite, but it’s based off
of Microsoft that gets a little older.

[00:30:15]
It’s not is it’s a little clumsy.

[00:30:17]
And we’d gotten a couple of months earlier
we’d gotten a spiel from their new system

[00:30:21]
which is iPad based and allowed
for online ordering.

[00:30:24]
And then in the pandemic.

[00:30:25]
And I said, well, I’m not going to change

[00:30:26]
it from my point of sale and it cost
me five grand to change it over.

[00:30:29]
Oh, it was supposed to be
a long term investment.

[00:30:30]
Make sure this is beautiful and you can
have a handheld and all that and stuff.

[00:30:34]
And they said, we’re
giving you a free trial.

[00:30:36]
All you got to do is buy the iPads.
All right.

[00:30:39]
And I.
A hundred bucks.

[00:30:40]
Yeah, I got two iPads off
a credit card points there.

[00:30:43]
There’s a credit card,

[00:30:45]
but I get two iPads with my credit
on the verge of disposable.

[00:30:47]
Right.
Right.

[00:30:47]
So I got two iPads for the kitchen
and my credit card points and then they

[00:30:52]
went forward and set up our
online ordering system for free.

[00:30:56]
Oh, well, the company did,
which is fantastic.

[00:30:58]
So now suddenly we’ve got a link for our

[00:31:00]
website says you want to order
online and pay online.

[00:31:02]
Same credit card processor,
all integrated beautifully

[00:31:06]
when you look at pay.
And then we just get a slip that just

[00:31:08]
printed off a little printer and it
would say pick up at five thirty.

[00:31:12]
We’d cook it ready for five thirty.
All right.

[00:31:14]
So that was a saving grace.
Wow.

[00:31:17]
Yeah, that was huge.

[00:31:18]
And

[00:31:20]
there were a lot of restaurants that
weren’t as lucky to have that point

[00:31:24]
of sale where they could get that online
ordering system set up for free.

[00:31:27]
And look at most restaurants where you’re
banking on people coming to you, right?

[00:31:31]
Yeah, we’re in the house.

[00:31:33]
We don’t do we didn’t we did a couple

[00:31:35]
to go orders a week before this,
and now it’s all to go.

[00:31:39]
Yeah, every single last order is a bag

[00:31:42]
that you have to hand
someone to go like it.

[00:31:44]
See, it’s just interesting,

[00:31:47]
interesting dynamic because you
look at pizza places, right?

[00:31:50]
Pizza places where people are ordering
delivery or takeout or whatever.

[00:31:53]
They were made for this.
It’s correct.

[00:31:55]
They’re automatically online.

[00:31:57]
So it ain’t no thing with them.
Right.

[00:31:59]
But other places where you’re expecting

[00:32:01]
the atmosphere to be the reason
that people come to you

[00:32:06]
is a place where there’s no atmosphere

[00:32:07]
anymore because you’ve got a strong
community and creating to go pizza.

[00:32:10]
Yeah, I’m creating a community.
Oh.

[00:32:13]
So we had a few orders a week and now we

[00:32:14]
went to every order is carry out and we
had a few delivery orders for each street.

[00:32:18]
OK, we partnered with E Street
well over a year ago.

[00:32:22]
Sure.
To just do a little bit of delivery here.

[00:32:24]
Right.
It was never more than a few a week.

[00:32:26]
We take a healthy night.

[00:32:27]
So yeah, if they do delivery,
it depends upon what your contract is.

[00:32:31]
But some places they take 20,
30, 40 percent off.

[00:32:35]
That’s a big number.
And yeah.

[00:32:37]
And when you’re when your profit margin

[00:32:39]
rate, your gross margin on food
is typically thirty percent.

[00:32:43]
So.
All right.

[00:32:44]
Labor costs plus ingredient costs
costs over sixty percent for food.

[00:32:49]
All right.

[00:32:50]
So then you look at what
you got left to get.

[00:32:52]
Thirty, thirty five percent.

[00:32:53]
Well, you three just took 30 percent

[00:32:55]
of that’s the only reason was
there is a to move product.

[00:32:57]
Right.

[00:32:58]
To to allow people
to have that experience.

[00:32:59]
If they couldn’t findit.

[00:33:02]
Street orders never really picked up.

[00:33:04]
And if people don’t want delivery,

[00:33:06]
Rockhound, they just
didn’t get that right.

[00:33:08]
They’ll pick it up.

[00:33:09]
They don’t want it delivered
because it takes too long.

[00:33:10]
It’s like a pizza told in a box.
Pretty well.

[00:33:12]
Great burgers just work.

[00:33:14]
It’s all soggy and just
don’t work as well.

[00:33:16]
So someone ask you about

[00:33:19]
the transition
like there was just mass confusion.

[00:33:23]
Yeah.
With everyone, right?

[00:33:25]
My wife and I.

[00:33:26]
Well, I guess my wife, kid and I, we used
to go for breakfast every Sunday morning

[00:33:30]
and all of a sudden we
don’t know what’s open.

[00:33:33]
We don’t know what the rules are for.

[00:33:34]
When you go to this place,

[00:33:36]
we don’t know, like every restaurant
kind of had its own thing.

[00:33:40]
And I totally get it from a business owner

[00:33:41]
standpoint, just like they were
throwing a crazy curve ball.

[00:33:45]
Yeah.

[00:33:45]
And they’re all reacting
in semi different ways.

[00:33:48]
And you don’t know what the rules

[00:33:49]
of the game are for ordering food,
picking up food, all this jazz.

[00:33:52]
Yeah, well, just just to make sure we

[00:33:54]
clarify,
people still don’t know what’s going

[00:33:57]
on half the time when they
come into their home.

[00:34:00]
People still come.

[00:34:00]
It’s like, I don’t know
how this works really.

[00:34:01]
Well, we’ll guide you through the process.
Right.

[00:34:03]
You’re absolutely right.

[00:34:04]
So, you know, first of all, there was no
in-house at all for a couple of months.

[00:34:07]
Right.

[00:34:07]
OK, so March 16th through I think it was
June something or and it was after

[00:34:12]
Memorial Day so that the quote unquote
lockdown ended after Memorial Day.

[00:34:17]
And then there was the judicial
things where it wasn’t, it wasn’t.

[00:34:20]
And then Dane County put
their own order down.

[00:34:22]
On top of their confusion.
It adds to the confusion.

[00:34:25]
There was no consistent message.

[00:34:27]
And that’s one of my biggest
political discussion.

[00:34:28]
Arguments like the problem is that they

[00:34:30]
couldn’t get together to make
a consistent message.

[00:34:31]
Still isn’t right,

[00:34:34]
at least in other countries,

[00:34:36]
whether it’s positive or negative,
whether you agree or disagree,

[00:34:38]
there’s a consistent message from their
president or prime minister.

[00:34:41]
Right.
And whether you talk a state level or

[00:34:44]
national level, there’s
no consistent message.

[00:34:46]
No, not at all.
Now, let’s just forget about that here.

[00:34:49]
That’s not what we’re talking about.
Right.

[00:34:51]
That does hurt business.

[00:34:52]
Still incredibly so public.

[00:34:54]
It hurts people don’t know
what to do or they should go or not go.

[00:34:59]
Right.
So I would say you could come back

[00:35:00]
to that in just a small way
in just a couple of minutes.

[00:35:02]
But it’s when we were finally able to open
back up again

[00:35:07]
and we were able to open back up and we’re
able to look at the way things worked.

[00:35:11]
We did it our way, OK?

[00:35:13]
We took the Dane County order,
followed all the rules that we had

[00:35:15]
to there, and then added a few of our own
processes and procedures to make sure

[00:35:19]
the cleanliness was just as what
were the Dane County rules.

[00:35:23]
It was they were pretty simple.

[00:35:24]
It was

[00:35:25]
for a while it was questionable
whether masks were not required.

[00:35:29]
OK, we required masks, OK?

[00:35:31]
There was no ifs, ands or buts about it.

[00:35:32]
We gave away for free.

[00:35:33]
So let me pause right there.

[00:35:35]
So if I order food from you
or any place, right.

[00:35:38]
Yeah, I would never know.

[00:35:41]
Can I go inside?

[00:35:42]
What are the rules for me to go inside.

[00:35:44]
How do you know who I am versus any other

[00:35:47]
person that walks in there right
now like I’m here for my food.

[00:35:50]
Right.

[00:35:50]
Well that was that wasn’t that was a lot
easier than we thought it would be.

[00:35:53]
OK, someone didn’t have a mask.
I was just picking up food.

[00:35:55]
They can wait outside and if they need

[00:35:56]
to run their credit card,
we just grabbed their credit card.

[00:35:59]
OK, it’s spring summer.
So isn’t too bad.

[00:36:01]
OK, we’ll wait in the
vestibule real quick.

[00:36:02]
They just wait there.
So we accommodated any of that.

[00:36:05]
All right.

[00:36:05]
When we got the dining and people didn’t
have a mask when they were

[00:36:09]
able to dine in in June
and moving forward,

[00:36:12]
if they didn’t have a mask for a while,
we just gave them one for free.

[00:36:15]
OK, they cost us a few pennies apiece.

[00:36:18]
We just asked any time they got it

[00:36:19]
from their table, they put their
mask on if they needed to.

[00:36:22]
If they want to go look at the merchandise

[00:36:23]
or go the restroom, it was
put your mask on, please.

[00:36:25]
OK, and we just so at the table,

[00:36:27]
no mask because you’re good,
you’re eating and drinking.

[00:36:29]
And we had something that would leave it

[00:36:30]
on the whole time unless they
were actively eating or drinking.

[00:36:33]
Really?
Yeah.

[00:36:34]
And that’s, you know,
when you’re chatting with friends because

[00:36:36]
there are people that were there not with
or necessarily in their household, OK?

[00:36:38]
And they’re just trying to, you know.
Sure.

[00:36:40]
Follow the rules as best possible.
All right.

[00:36:42]
And then the mask rule came down.

[00:36:43]
And in Dane County, it’s an absolute mask.

[00:36:45]
You’ll get the signs
on doors and everything.

[00:36:48]
And then when that came down, we decided
to start charging a dollar for masks.

[00:36:51]
It was it was a a legal requirement
that we legally require masks, OK?

[00:36:55]
Andtechnically,

[00:36:58]
there’s fines up to a thousand
dollars per violation for things.

[00:37:01]
But they only are enforcing capacity
violations, not really enforcing them.

[00:37:04]
But so, you know, we had to change to take

[00:37:07]
out then we had to change
to how we’re going to enforce.

[00:37:09]
We had we had to revamp the way
the whole restaurant operated.

[00:37:13]
We got plexiglass for around our bar,
you know, Plexiglas for a host.

[00:37:17]
And in case someone came in and there’s

[00:37:19]
people that don’t want to have
a conversation with you.

[00:37:22]
So it was a little bit
of extra protection.

[00:37:25]
So our host Dan has a plexiglass.

[00:37:26]
Looks like you’re at a bank
or something that

[00:37:30]
we remove the whole stand
right up against the door.

[00:37:32]
Right.
So, yeah, we moved the whole stand right

[00:37:34]
up against the door to make
sure people wouldn’t come in.

[00:37:36]
And without our authorization, we
monitor the number of people in there,

[00:37:40]
whether or not they’re wearing
masks and all that kind of stuff.

[00:37:42]
So it was basically we took a very strong

[00:37:45]
stance that we’re going to do all
the safety procedures possible.

[00:37:48]
And then on top of that,
my much of my staff and I go get covid

[00:37:53]
tested every two weeks
and kind of a rotating basis.

[00:37:55]
Wow.

[00:37:55]
I had twelve,
twelve total negative covid tests.

[00:37:59]
OK, OK, up the nose.
All right.

[00:38:00]
So and that’s just a little bit of just

[00:38:02]
a checkbox to say that,
you know, we’re all tested this week,

[00:38:06]
my chef gets tested next week, whatever,
you know, and we’re all kind of in a pod

[00:38:10]
where we’re so exposed to each other that
if we keep a rotating negative set

[00:38:14]
of tests, we feel pretty
safe with each other.

[00:38:16]
It sure makes sense.

[00:38:17]
Yeah.

[00:38:18]
So, yeah, there’s a lot of
the buzzword right now.

[00:38:21]
It’s called pivoting and I
hate using it, but you had to.

[00:38:23]
Oh, yeah, new normal,

[00:38:25]
yeah, you get to change what
you’re doing every five minutes.

[00:38:28]
Totally.

[00:38:28]
But, you know, every couple of weeks we
have to think about changelings and every

[00:38:30]
time a new order came down from either
the state or the locals,

[00:38:35]
I was so proud that I could go
on my Facebook page and say we didn’t have

[00:38:39]
to change anything because we
were already doing is fair.

[00:38:43]
OK, we were already
taking these precautions.

[00:38:45]
You know, we’re sanitizing
things every couple of hours.

[00:38:46]
We’re doing this.
We’re doing that.

[00:38:47]
We’re wearing masks.
Every time a new order came up,

[00:38:50]
we didn’t have to change
anything because I took that

[00:38:54]
called a high road.
I guess you want the high road of saying

[00:38:56]
I’m going to do things as
carefully as possible.

[00:38:58]
Sure.
You’re on the side of caution as well.

[00:39:00]
Sure.

[00:39:00]
To try to make it more
comfortable for my guests.

[00:39:03]
Yes.

[00:39:03]
I suppose you never know from a customer
standpoint where they stand.

[00:39:07]
Is there just like a thing or if they’re

[00:39:10]
like,
I don’t want to breathe anybody else’s air

[00:39:13]
within 12 feet of me,
so you have to appease them, whatever.

[00:39:17]
Well, that’s why we had a patio,
too, so that helped to write.

[00:39:19]
So in summary, we had a patio.
Oh, that’s right.

[00:39:22]
You just got it.

[00:39:23]
Just the fall of last year.
A year ago.

[00:39:25]
Yeah.

[00:39:25]
So the patio was was there and we got
that’s got lucky that it got approved.

[00:39:31]
How many people can fit in patio.

[00:39:32]
Well with Coalwood we can live at twelve.

[00:39:34]
OK is at two tables.

[00:39:36]
There’s a three to four tables,

[00:39:37]
there’s two on the corner that are
two tops are shoved in the corner.

[00:39:40]
OK then two four tops that are
kind of in the middle.

[00:39:42]
All right.
You know, so there’s but we would

[00:39:45]
otherwise would have been
off at twenty, twenty five.

[00:39:46]
All right.

[00:39:47]
You know, you put them together like
you want to maximize that space.

[00:39:49]
You can’t know.
So we can live at twelve.

[00:39:52]
All right.
That’s fine.

[00:39:53]
But we have people I don’t
ever want to go inside.

[00:39:56]
I’m like, that’s fine.
If you want to go and say you have to wear

[00:39:58]
masks to go the restroom or whatever,
like, can we just use the patio?

[00:40:00]
That’s fine in our house to see
what the shirt stuff takes care of.

[00:40:03]
The never have to come inside.

[00:40:03]
I worked great also from August
was quote unquote really good.

[00:40:07]
OK, just really good for an August.

[00:40:10]
Are really good for a comedy.
Good for Coleman.

[00:40:12]
OK, I was half last year.

[00:40:14]
We nailed it actually knows
forty percent last year.

[00:40:18]
That’s not bad.
No it’s actually really good for going.

[00:40:20]
Forty percent is really
good at that point.

[00:40:22]
Did you have to be at twenty
five percent capacity.

[00:40:24]
Yeah.

[00:40:24]
OK so that’s twenty five,
twenty five percent inside and then.

[00:40:27]
Plus the patio.
Sure.

[00:40:28]
All right.
So twenty seven plus twelve.

[00:40:30]
That wasn’t too bad.
Right.

[00:40:32]
All right.
Well yeah it’s that,

[00:40:36]
that consistent message though
the government was the big,

[00:40:39]
big kicker that was really kind
of there’s just confusion.

[00:40:42]
Right.

[00:40:43]
And that’s what also made me
proud that I took my own Sure.

[00:40:45]
Route.
Yeah.

[00:40:46]
My rule is that confused
customers don’t buy it.

[00:40:50]
And I remember I went to pick up Chinese
once and I almost got in a fight with this

[00:40:54]
dude because, like, not he got
mad at me for something because

[00:41:00]
we don’t have to go crazy on the story.

[00:41:02]
But I ordered the food

[00:41:04]
and then I pull up in the parking
lot and I can see people are around.

[00:41:08]
Some people are in the cars.

[00:41:09]
And I’m like, OK, there’s a system here,
but it’s not clear what it is.

[00:41:12]
Right?
Right.

[00:41:12]
So I just called and I’m like,
hey, order my food.

[00:41:16]
I don’t know what the game is
because it’s a very small up place.

[00:41:19]
Yeah.
So I’m like, we shouldn’t go in there.

[00:41:22]
So I assume they’re just bringing it out
and they’re like, no, your stuff is ready.

[00:41:24]
Come on in.
OK.

[00:41:25]
Oh my gosh.

[00:41:26]
So I walk in and apparently some guy
wasn’t happy that I was picking up

[00:41:30]
my Chinese food and he’s like,
we’re waiting out here.

[00:41:33]
My wow.
Yeah.

[00:41:36]
And I’m like, all right,

[00:41:39]
you’re getting awfully upset
about Chinese food and whatever.

[00:41:43]
It was just one of those things like,
I don’t need to do this again.

[00:41:47]
Right.
I just want to get Chinese food.

[00:41:49]
Right.
Like, it’s not

[00:41:51]
I’m not trying to get some cancer curing
drug for my mom or something like that.

[00:41:55]
I’m getting food.
I get food anywhere.

[00:41:58]
I don’t need to get food.

[00:41:59]
A place that has no system
to the Chinese food.

[00:42:06]
What I want to say, like they’re they had

[00:42:08]
no way to know that this is
going to happen, correct?

[00:42:11]
Yeah.
That it’s just mass chaos.

[00:42:13]
Right.

[00:42:14]
Come up with all this plexiglass,
invent all these ways and then try

[00:42:18]
to communicate this new system
to your customers.

[00:42:22]
It’s never going to happen.
Right.

[00:42:24]
So it’s rough.

[00:42:26]
It is.

[00:42:28]
We did pretty well in making sure our
customers knew what was expected.

[00:42:31]
We only had a couple of

[00:42:34]
points of confusion or points

[00:42:36]
of contention with our customer base
or people that just wanted to come in.

[00:42:39]
Yeah, you know, and it frankly
was most often from out of town.

[00:42:45]
Sure.

[00:42:46]
OK, people in Madison, in Dane County
understood what the rules were.

[00:42:50]
Even if they didn’t like it.
They understood it.

[00:42:52]
They dealt with it.
Right.

[00:42:53]
OK, fine.

[00:42:54]
I don’t I don’t care if you
like it or don’t like it.

[00:42:57]
It’s the rule and I
don’t want to get fined.

[00:42:58]
Right.
So

[00:43:00]
we can use the game here.
Here’s the rules.

[00:43:03]
You know, here’s what we expect.

[00:43:04]
You know, you got to sit six feet apart.

[00:43:05]
People would try to come in with groups

[00:43:06]
of eight and the maximum
allowed at a table six.

[00:43:09]
So we’d have to split them
into two tables of four.

[00:43:10]
And if they didn’t like that,
they would leave.

[00:43:12]
And that was we’ve seen
it with a group of twelve

[00:43:17]
and we said we can’t stitch all together.

[00:43:18]
We’re going to find a place
that we don’t like.

[00:43:19]
That’s fine.

[00:43:20]
Go find someone who will break
the rules because I won’t write.

[00:43:22]
And I said.
To them directly that way, and they left.

[00:43:25]
All right,

[00:43:26]
we’ve had other groups that come
in that actually have

[00:43:29]
like it was a husband,
wife and five kids, their own five kids.

[00:43:33]
And I can’t seat seven at a table.
All right.

[00:43:35]
So the kids all sat at one table.

[00:43:37]
The husband wife set another table
and they were fine with that.

[00:43:39]
I bet they were fine with it.

[00:43:42]
It’s so quiet.
So there was that kind of thing.

[00:43:45]
But, you know, we stuck to our
guns and we follow the rules.

[00:43:49]
And we lost probably a few
customers because of that.

[00:43:52]
Groups of 12.

[00:43:54]
Right.

[00:43:55]
We had a group of 15 call and say,
can we preserve the space?

[00:43:58]
We don’t do any reservations
at all right now.

[00:44:00]
And how many times can a group of 15
go to a restaurant just universally?

[00:44:04]
Correct.
Agree.

[00:44:06]
This is a really big place and it’s

[00:44:08]
the middle of an afternoon when I’m just
sitting at the Batman table or something.

[00:44:12]
And we’ve had reservations in Rickover

[00:44:14]
times of groups of 15, 20, OK,
we’ll accommodate them during slow times.

[00:44:17]
We love that because, you know,
it’s middle of a Sunday afternoon.

[00:44:21]
Sure.
Boom.

[00:44:21]
Twenty group of twenty made a reservation.

[00:44:23]
We’re ready for a walk in fifteen people

[00:44:28]
when we can only have
twenty seven to begin with.

[00:44:29]
And there’s already fifteen
people in the restaurant.

[00:44:31]
Twenty seven in the whole
rest of the hall restaurant.

[00:44:33]
He’s like, well what are
we going to do with you.

[00:44:34]
We can’t, we can’t accommodate you.

[00:44:36]
We can’t actually get you here.

[00:44:37]
We’ve had Cherkin all right.

[00:44:39]
And my, my manager had to turn them away
and they’re like, well I don’t get it.

[00:44:42]
Like what about, you know,
it was almost we want to see them.

[00:44:45]
Do you not know how to do math?
Right.

[00:44:47]
You know, it’s like simple math.

[00:44:49]
So, yeah, I don’t want to bash customers

[00:44:51]
because again, they’re the bread
and butter of the whole industry.

[00:44:54]
But it’s like you have to understand
that we have rules to follow.

[00:44:57]
And if you don’t want to follow them,
we can’t help you.

[00:44:59]
Right.
Right.

[00:45:01]
No, it’s tough.
It was tough to see from a restaurant

[00:45:04]
owners standpoint and then
from a customer standpoint,

[00:45:09]
I had a manager when I worked
at the theater, told me,

[00:45:10]
never get in the restaurant business
because people are hungry and cranky.

[00:45:15]
And they just he’s like they’re always
in a pissy mood until they get fed.

[00:45:20]
Yeah.
And so right away.

[00:45:21]
Yeah.

[00:45:22]
And the whole covid thing,
people are locked up.

[00:45:25]
So there’s just this tension
in the air everywhere.

[00:45:27]
Yeah.
Especially I think it was April to

[00:45:30]
now.
Don’t know.

[00:45:32]
There’s just it’s like I’m cooped up

[00:45:35]
and there’s confusion and there’s
just like you see suicides are up.

[00:45:40]
Depression is crazy up drinking is up.
Right.

[00:45:43]
Yeah.
So it’s just drinking more.

[00:45:45]
There’s a tension in the air.
Right.

[00:45:46]
Yeah.
And so you add that on to like I just want

[00:45:48]
food and I don’t know how to get
food and they want social time.

[00:45:52]
Right.
Right now you know,

[00:45:53]
I talked about it before the show
started with social type people.

[00:45:56]
We’re social creatures.
Totally social creatures.

[00:45:58]
Yeah.

[00:45:58]
And it drove me nuts for a couple months
to like my my life was going to the pub,

[00:46:03]
going, going,
going, oh, look,

[00:46:05]
I have a wife and we could sit and chat,
we could watch movies.

[00:46:08]
We love each other, but only going home.

[00:46:10]
And I was able to socialize
with by a couple of staff members.

[00:46:12]
I did have.
All right.

[00:46:13]
Some people, they just want to come
out and they want to socialize.

[00:46:16]
And, you know, my my one
of the people that we did her,

[00:46:21]
she came to the pub and she said, oh,
my sister drove down here from Appleton.

[00:46:24]
There’s no way we’re
sitting at separate tables.

[00:46:25]
So we’re going somewhere else.
We’re like, OK, all right.

[00:46:28]
She wanted to be social.

[00:46:29]
I understand the perspective.

[00:46:30]
She didn’t need to get snippy with us.
Right.

[00:46:32]
But I understand the perspective.

[00:46:34]
But else she had
to understand my perspective.

[00:46:35]
I can’t play.
Right.

[00:46:37]
So interesting.
Yeah.

[00:46:40]
So customer behavior is challenging.

[00:46:42]
Did you ever have any employees,

[00:46:44]
I guess when you had to cut them all,
maybe not so much, but

[00:46:48]
there weren’t any employees that said I

[00:46:50]
don’t want to work here anymore because
I don’t want to deal with people.

[00:46:52]
Not really.

[00:46:53]
We had some employees that were skittish
of skittish OK of coming back because they

[00:46:57]
were worried about exposure and coming
back and that kind of thing.

[00:47:02]
So when we put our employee procedures
in place for reopening,

[00:47:07]
we had an employee meeting and, you know,

[00:47:09]
so we had an employee meeting
with an eight or ten employees.

[00:47:12]
Yeah.
And we went over the procedures with them

[00:47:14]
and told them how things
were going to work, OK?

[00:47:16]
And it actually set a lot of them at ease.
All right.

[00:47:19]
Because they weren’t sure how exposed or

[00:47:22]
whatnot they were going to be
or how much they had to do.

[00:47:24]
And we instead of having sort
of team work environment.

[00:47:26]
But it’s tough having a team
work where we cross jobs a lot.

[00:47:29]
We tried to keep people isolated within

[00:47:31]
their specific job so we wouldn’t have to
go near each other as much of a choice.

[00:47:36]
We won’t go near each other as much.

[00:47:37]
And then we put in the Plexiglas
to help protect the employees as well.

[00:47:41]
The Mask policy helped to protect

[00:47:42]
the employees as well,
and then made sure we were careful about

[00:47:46]
distancing of tables for rules and to help
protect the employees as well.

[00:47:50]
OK,

[00:47:51]
and we put procedures in place
that minimize their contact at tables

[00:47:54]
and told the customers about that and
said, we’re not going to have tables off.

[00:47:57]
If you need anything,
don’t hesitate to ask.

[00:47:59]
You know, we’re not going to be at your

[00:48:00]
table every five minutes going how are
things that you need more ketchup?

[00:48:03]
But if you need something,
just let us know.

[00:48:06]
I’m sure.

[00:48:06]
So we had to change customer
expectations of the toys.

[00:48:09]
Our employees were very, very good
in accommodating that they like.

[00:48:12]
I feel better about that.

[00:48:14]
So we did have the employees that were
able to come back did come back.

[00:48:17]
Some went home to their family,
some graduated college and left the city.

[00:48:20]
And we lost a number of good people.
All right.

[00:48:23]
Because it’s covered for various reasons,

[00:48:24]
I’m sure the ones that were still around
could come back and feel safe about it.

[00:48:27]
Interesting.
Yeah.

[00:48:29]
So when did the thought
come in your head like

[00:48:33]
we might have to close?

[00:48:35]
Was that March when stuff get
all weird to lay everybody off?

[00:48:38]
Well, you know, thought crosses
your mind in March, April.

[00:48:41]
But you’re like, no, no, no, no.
It was a year three.

[00:48:44]
Yeah.

[00:48:45]
You’re too

[00:48:47]
you know, you think, hey,
we’re thinking about closing.

[00:48:49]
But I no, it’s it’s a matter of looking
at things day by day or week by week.

[00:48:56]
In March and April, I looked at and said,
we got a little money in the bank.

[00:49:00]
And then April I got approved
for the people I think was April.

[00:49:03]
Okay?

[00:49:03]
I got approved for the loan and said,
OK, cool, I got this chunk of money.

[00:49:07]
It’s designed for salaries, some rent,
some utilities, which is interesting.

[00:49:11]
So for the people that don’t
know about the PvP thing.

[00:49:14]
Right.

[00:49:14]
The calculation had to do
with employee payroll the year before.

[00:49:17]
Right.
Like the year before.

[00:49:18]
And the multiplier was two point five.
Right.

[00:49:21]
So I saw that and I was like,
oh, two and a half months.

[00:49:23]
What be done?
Right.

[00:49:25]
This is this is they’re calling the shots
and it made it sound like the point five

[00:49:31]
was just like a little it was just in case
that was the extra to make sure you could

[00:49:34]
pay not only your payroll but your
rent and royalties as well.

[00:49:37]
So I’m like, OK, if we can make
it two months, we’re all good.

[00:49:41]
This is clearly people that know
what’s going on above me.

[00:49:45]
Call this.

[00:49:46]
Do you think they don’t know
what’s going on above you?

[00:49:48]
Well, apparently not, because that two
months came and went a few months ago.

[00:49:51]
Right.
And they change the rules of.

[00:49:53]
So, you know, you’re supposed to use it

[00:49:54]
within, I think, a three
month time span and then.

[00:49:56]
Right.

[00:49:57]
And then eventually they
extend it out to six months and whatnot.

[00:50:00]
So, yeah, that’s a mess, too.
They did.

[00:50:02]
They change the rules.
And now it’s technically could be

[00:50:04]
forgivable to still apply
for my forgiveness.

[00:50:06]
But

[00:50:07]
closing discussion kind
of started happening

[00:50:11]
every month.

[00:50:12]
I look at the amount of the money
in the bank account go more fine.

[00:50:15]
And then the first
the next month we’re fine.

[00:50:17]
The first next month we’re fine.

[00:50:18]
And I’m a big analyst guy.

[00:50:20]
I worked in the corporate world for 12
years as an analyst numbers cruncher

[00:50:24]
for vice presidents
of the Fortune 500 company.

[00:50:27]
So, like, I know how to do this.

[00:50:28]
And I started crunching my own numbers

[00:50:29]
and said, all right,
PPY loan is gone, all right.

[00:50:34]
My rent is past due
and paying in 50 percent.

[00:50:37]
And he wants the whole thing.

[00:50:38]
Oh, he didn’t keep that rolling.
Right.

[00:50:40]
So I see what I can.
All right.

[00:50:43]
In good faith, I was paying and what I can

[00:50:44]
and I understood his business perspective,
my business perspective.

[00:50:48]
I paid him what I could.
Yeah, it’s not a charity.

[00:50:50]
Right.

[00:50:52]
And you know that utilities and certain
things that the place will never fully go

[00:50:56]
a gas electric insurance is
down because I don’t use much.

[00:51:01]
OK, so was that an active lowering
or did you have to ask for that.

[00:51:07]
They actually lower it.
They asked me what changes I’d made

[00:51:09]
and they changed my insurance
and sent me a refund.

[00:51:11]
All right.

[00:51:12]
So I got a couple of grants from state
government and county government.

[00:51:17]
All that stuff was just legal.
It’s all gone.

[00:51:18]
And then the Kahrizak was paying
my SBA loans, OK, for six months.

[00:51:24]
Oh, nice.
They were paying the loan payment for six.

[00:51:27]
OK, so I know.

[00:51:28]
Is there something that you have to pay
or would have to pay back later.

[00:51:31]
They’re just covering that,
not covering it.

[00:51:33]
So they are covering the with the loan
and the loan to the credit.

[00:51:36]
All right.
Through some credit union.

[00:51:38]
So they’re covering two
of my biggest loans.

[00:51:40]
All right.

[00:51:40]
So that was, you know,
ended that last month.

[00:51:44]
All right.

[00:51:45]
So here I in October,
I have to pay those loans again.

[00:51:47]
All right.
I won’t have any money left.

[00:51:49]
All right.

[00:51:49]
I’ve got about twenty five
percent revenue coming in.

[00:51:53]
I got more bills.
I know what to do with.

[00:51:54]
I don’t need to produce
any more beer for months.

[00:51:57]
You know, the rent is well overdue.

[00:51:59]
And then the less I’m thinking about

[00:52:01]
looking at going, the market is changing,
the customer base is changing.

[00:52:04]
And my lease is up in March
of this coming year.

[00:52:07]
So much to be first about five,
six months from now.

[00:52:09]
OK, my lease is up.

[00:52:12]
Either I just kind of stumble
along until I run out of cash.

[00:52:15]
Right.

[00:52:15]
And I’ve seen that happen
with Russian state.

[00:52:17]
They close up one day like texted
and plays like we’re done by game over.

[00:52:21]
And that’s that’s a jerk move incredibly.
Yeah.

[00:52:24]
And that I, I have gained
employees from those moves.

[00:52:26]
By the way, good employees
from restaurants are closed

[00:52:30]
or I can say or I can do
this gracefully and my way.

[00:52:33]
All right.
On my terms.

[00:52:34]
And that’s you know what.

[00:52:36]
It’s inevitable it’s going to happen.

[00:52:37]
I can’t make the numbers work

[00:52:39]
and recitals for five more years or even
one more year and said, this makes sense.

[00:52:44]
Let’s close on my terms.
All right.

[00:52:46]
Did the were you guys busy
with Badger football?

[00:52:49]
No.
No.

[00:52:50]
That didn’t affect you guys.
Well, in the past.

[00:52:53]
In the past.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:52:54]
So now that that’s weird or no,
I don’t know what’s right.

[00:52:57]
So we would do as much money
and a single badger football game day

[00:53:02]
as we would do in a week.
Wow.

[00:53:05]
OK, during lockdown.

[00:53:07]
So, so, so our, our, our weeks.

[00:53:11]
So those badger Saturdays.
Yeah.

[00:53:13]
We’re the same as what we were doing

[00:53:14]
for an entire week in like
June, July, August.

[00:53:17]
Wow.
OK, we do that in one day.

[00:53:19]
All right.

[00:53:20]
Sometimes more so then flip
flopping on the decision with.

[00:53:23]
Football thing doesn’t help.

[00:53:24]
I mean, again, I don’t want I can’t put

[00:53:26]
one hundred and eight
people in there right now.

[00:53:28]
I know, right?
So what’s the point?

[00:53:30]
Oh, they’re OK.
So what’s the point?

[00:53:31]
Unless unless we go to full capacity
and my staff will will would leave.

[00:53:35]
Right.
If we went to full capacity.

[00:53:36]
They’re not interested in full capacity.

[00:53:38]
Oh, I get we all want to stay safe.
Sure.

[00:53:40]
They want to stay safe
and they don’t want that.

[00:53:42]
So anyways.

[00:53:43]
All right, so we’re looking
at all the factors.

[00:53:45]
We don’t have football.
We don’t have basketball coming up.

[00:53:48]
You know, we thrived on football,
basketball, hockey, even some volleyball.

[00:53:51]
We want a sports bar.

[00:53:53]
We were the pre game post game bar.
All right.

[00:53:56]
And we made a lot of money in football

[00:53:58]
Saturdays and that would carry
us through the lean months.

[00:54:01]
It was all right.

[00:54:03]
And it just it just and we’re
approaching the winter, right?

[00:54:05]
The profit numbers don’t make
sense because they don’t exist.

[00:54:07]
Thirty one percent negative.
I could yeah.

[00:54:10]
I could buy a fine European sports car
with how much money we lost this year.

[00:54:13]
All right.
So, you know, it’s it it’s one of those

[00:54:16]
things like
I’m not going to put any more my own

[00:54:18]
personal money into this
because it really doesn’t exist anymore.

[00:54:21]
It’s a sinking ship, right?
It’s a sinking ship.

[00:54:23]
So can I steer it to the shore and
hit the reef carefully as opposed

[00:54:26]
to tipping the damn thing over and it’s
right on its belly, so to speak.

[00:54:30]
Sorry.
All right.

[00:54:31]
So let’s let’s close our way.
Let’s close Graceville.

[00:54:34]
Let’s do it the right way.

[00:54:35]
And that’s where we came up with the you
know, how to close our procedures.

[00:54:38]
And we’re close in a month and after
that we’ll sell as much beer.

[00:54:41]
I came up with one last beer to sell that

[00:54:43]
those conversations happened started
happening about two months ago.

[00:54:45]
And then we came up with the plan
last month.

[00:54:48]
Did you know what I want to ask?

[00:54:51]
When you make your
decisions like fumbling,

[00:54:54]
closing a business got to be tough

[00:54:56]
when you make your decisions pre covid
did you like it? Was that you and your

[00:55:02]
wife was you your managers? What did you
have for your decision making team? Is me

[00:55:05]
and my managers OK? And then my my wife,
of course, was involved in that to

[00:55:10]
me. And my managers would make

[00:55:12]
the the two managers they had basically
the three of us

[00:55:14]
would make major operational decisions
and my wife and I would make kind of long

[00:55:18]
term decisions like if we were going
to sign the lease again,

[00:55:21]
had covid that happened,
that would be between me and my wife

[00:55:23]
for the most part, saying,
do we want to do this for five years?

[00:55:25]
We want to figure out
a way to get rid of it.

[00:55:29]
But my managers and I would figure
out all the operational decisions.

[00:55:32]
OK, yeah.

[00:55:33]
So did you how did the conversation go
when you decided to close the door?

[00:55:36]
Did one of your managers come to you

[00:55:38]
and say, hey, well, there you go to them
and say they asked very early on,

[00:55:44]
we’re talking July.
July, yeah.

[00:55:46]
July evening.
Are we closing up tonight?

[00:55:48]
OK, not yet.

[00:55:50]
So no, that’s not inevitable.
That’s what I would tell them.

[00:55:53]
I said, here’s how much
money we got in the bank.

[00:55:54]
It’s fine, OK?

[00:55:55]
And I would tell them exactly how
much money you had in the bank.

[00:55:57]
It’s we’re doing good.

[00:55:58]
We’re doing well when it came to us.

[00:56:00]
And here’s what we got for I
was open book with my managers.

[00:56:03]
I’m like, this is my finances and this is

[00:56:05]
what I pay you and this is
what we need for operation.

[00:56:07]
They were they knew that I knew my numbers
and I was very clear with them.

[00:56:10]
I said, we’re fine.
Cash flow is good.

[00:56:12]
All right.
And then July, we looked at things.

[00:56:15]
I said, man, things are
not going to be fine.

[00:56:18]
Oh, in July, because I was looking at
the end of the the Kahrizak and the PP.

[00:56:22]
Sure.
The rent, like I said.

[00:56:24]
So you could see when stuff more stuff is

[00:56:26]
coming due and less money was
coming in as far as outside help.

[00:56:30]
Right.
And I’m looking at going if if

[00:56:31]
the government doesn’t change things
and I’m not looking for yet another

[00:56:34]
handout or of covid doesn’t change or
a vaccine doesn’t miraculously appear.

[00:56:38]
Right, we’re not going to be fine.

[00:56:40]
So let’s it doesn’t say seventy degrees.
Yeah.

[00:56:43]
Right.
Yeah.

[00:56:43]
It doesn’t say seven degrees.
I think we need to be cognizant of that.

[00:56:46]
And I want to make sure that they knew

[00:56:48]
early on that I was going
to keep them well informed.

[00:56:50]
All right.
And you know, and then,

[00:56:52]
you know, August and then
very much in September,

[00:56:55]
we had the conversations of like,
all right, are we are, aren’t we?

[00:56:58]
And it finally came to a discussion.

[00:57:00]
I sat them down and we said I said,
we’re going to have to close, all right?

[00:57:03]
And I said, you’ve got to keep this

[00:57:05]
between the three of us
and my wife for now.

[00:57:07]
And then at that point,
we will figure out a plan.

[00:57:10]
And then a few weeks later,
we came up with a plan

[00:57:13]
and then we that’s we’re
executing right now.

[00:57:15]
So what made you decide on the November
fifty is November 14th fourteenth.

[00:57:19]
OK, Saturday.

[00:57:21]
It’s right before the holiday season.

[00:57:22]
OK, and it basically allowed us one month

[00:57:25]
from the announcement to close,
which is a perfect time for everybody

[00:57:28]
to run ragged because we’re gonna
run ragged for the next month.

[00:57:32]
Just people excited to come one last time.

[00:57:35]
We did a lot of this past week
and we did quite a bit of business.

[00:57:38]
OK, more business than
we’ve done in entire weeks.

[00:57:41]
Wow.
Actually, half a month.

[00:57:42]
Wow.
OK, during covid.

[00:57:44]
Right.

[00:57:44]
So I’m trying to put as much
money in the bank as possible.

[00:57:48]
I’ve got money set aside
for salaries and taxes.

[00:57:50]
You can’t get away from those by law.

[00:57:52]
So salaries and taxes are set aside

[00:57:54]
because much money in the bank,
it’s possible to pay our vendors and start

[00:57:56]
paying off what I need to be set
prioritization.

[00:58:00]
And that’s all internal discussion.

[00:58:01]
But,

[00:58:03]
you know, I’ve got a lot of loans to pay
off that I won’t be able to write.

[00:58:06]
Those things are eventually
going to default.

[00:58:08]
Right at that point, we’ll run down
to the scenario of what to do about that.

[00:58:12]
And, you know, I’ll work with an attorney,
I suppose, in that scenario.

[00:58:16]
All right.
So they’ll tell you what to do.

[00:58:18]
But we came with that plan

[00:58:20]
November 14th because it was
right before the holiday season.

[00:58:23]
My chef is a deer hunter.

[00:58:25]
That is the week before
deer hunting opens.

[00:58:29]
So I said, let’s you are welcome.

[00:58:31]
Yeah, no, he’s he’s got
a job already, so he’s good.

[00:58:34]
He works third to half time now for me.
All right.

[00:58:37]
So we got no job,

[00:58:37]
no worry about that and that we allowed us
time to do it on our own way and not try

[00:58:42]
to fumble over Thanksgiving
and fumble over Christmas.

[00:58:45]
And from my own personal perspective,

[00:58:47]
just my own even my own mental health
perspective, I can be done as much as is

[00:58:50]
going to hurt from a financial
perspective before the holidays.

[00:58:53]
And I can be like,
even if I can’t go visit my family one

[00:58:56]
hundred percent during the holidays,
I can not be open.

[00:58:59]
Sure.
And not have to deal with trying to staff

[00:59:01]
a pub, try and deal with the public during
holidays and stuff because they’re going

[00:59:07]
to want to do X, Y, Z, even more
attention to the holiday tension.

[00:59:10]
And and I think that’s
it’s a good, clean break.

[00:59:14]
My perspective to do it right before

[00:59:15]
Thanksgiving and just be be done and just
try to decompress and enjoy my life.

[00:59:20]
All right.

[00:59:21]
What was the what was
your landlord’s reaction?

[00:59:25]
He is not real happy.

[00:59:28]
He wants to sit down and figure
out how we close things down.

[00:59:31]
OK, tell him I do everything I could

[00:59:32]
to get everything out
of there by March 31st.

[00:59:34]
OK, but there’s there’s agreements,
security agreements in the lease

[00:59:37]
that says, you know, you’ve
got to pay X, Y, Z, Bulba.

[00:59:40]
So we have to figure out what I can
and can’t pay what is and isn’t possible.

[00:59:44]
And then again, that’s
where lawyers come in.

[00:59:46]
Unfortunately, we’re trying to figure out.

[00:59:47]
So, yeah, I owe him back rent and I

[00:59:49]
recognize that I’m not going
to be able to pay all that to.

[00:59:52]
All right.

[00:59:54]
So I don’t I don’t have a lot
of options to rent to to go to stuff.

[00:59:59]
Yeah.

[00:59:59]
I don’t have I don’t have
a lot of roads to go down.

[01:00:01]
So it’s kind of a

[01:00:02]
can we come to an agreement and what I pay
and be done, you know, wash my hands

[01:00:07]
or is there going to be a legal
battle which I really don’t want.

[01:00:09]
Right.
Because I can get expensive.

[01:00:11]
Nobody wins in court.
Correct.

[01:00:13]
And you know, my lender,

[01:00:14]
some credit unions lean
on everything that’s in there.

[01:00:16]
All right.

[01:00:16]
So they technically get
first dibs at everything.

[01:00:18]
So he I don’t want to fight
between my lender and summit.

[01:00:21]
Right.
Which he knows shouldn’t happen because

[01:00:23]
some it gets first dibs on everything
because they gave me the primary loan.

[01:00:26]
So I rather to say,

[01:00:27]
what do you want me to do, credit union
and everybody else and falls under that.

[01:00:31]
So I want to ask you something.
I don’t know if you have the answer

[01:00:35]
to this,
but what would you have liked to see so

[01:00:39]
that businesses, restaurants
and stuff like that could stay open?

[01:00:43]
Restaurants are closing left and right.
Absolutely.

[01:00:45]
And some are going
to college just for winter.

[01:00:47]
Then figure out what the heck happens.

[01:00:48]
Yeah, like there’s still it’s a

[01:00:51]
arguably it’s a restaurant
closing pandemic rate.

[01:00:53]
Very much so.

[01:00:54]
What would you have liked to see or see in
the future to stop there to prevent that?

[01:01:00]
Or is there something that exists or
is this just the course of business?

[01:01:04]
It ebbs and flows.
Some come, some go, I think half and half.

[01:01:07]
So of course, of business, some are going
to fail, some it’s going to come and go.

[01:01:11]
Right.

[01:01:12]
McDonald’s and Culvers are doing great.

[01:01:15]
Well, right.

[01:01:17]
There’s a McDonald’s in the
country that just closed.

[01:01:19]
Sure.
They just came in by high school.

[01:01:21]
I know that Culvers is just killing it.
They’re killing.

[01:01:24]
Yeah, because it’s the comfort food.
Easy to get.

[01:01:27]
Yeah.
Fresh because I love the product.

[01:01:28]
I think it’s great.
It’s a great frickin business model.

[01:01:30]
I think a reputation.
I think I covered it.

[01:01:32]
It was a genius in that whole franchise.

[01:01:35]
So he’s going to do great.
McDonald’s Corp.

[01:01:38]
really overall is doing very well.

[01:01:40]
Look at the stock right now or

[01:01:42]
any time a pandemic happens or an economic
downturn happens,

[01:01:46]
stuff like Culvers and McDonald’s go up
and then the chain’s somewhat servi.

[01:01:50]
Applebee’s Chili’s will survive because

[01:01:52]
they’ve got corporate money
that they can put back into that,

[01:01:56]
though.
So you Applebee’s surviving not all.

[01:01:58]
But look at this pandemic.

[01:02:00]
It’s kind of just in an economic
downturn from that perspective.

[01:02:02]
And that economic downturn
is going to kill a lot of.

[01:02:04]
Right of local restaurants.

[01:02:06]
It happens every time.

[01:02:07]
I’m sure it happened back in 2008 and then

[01:02:09]
before that, 2001
restaurants go out of business.

[01:02:13]
On the flip side of that, there’s like,

[01:02:14]
wow, this is a little bit extreme,
extremely extreme.

[01:02:17]
It’s like a year.

[01:02:19]
It’s less extreme.

[01:02:21]
It’s more like a Great Depression
from a restaurant perspective.

[01:02:25]
And and what could we
have done differently?

[01:02:28]
You know, do you do a restaurant specific

[01:02:30]
bailout kind Wisconsin restaurant
associations pushing for that?

[01:02:34]
So all of it’s been there?

[01:02:35]
Very much so because they’re
losing all our members.

[01:02:37]
Do you do a restaurant specific bailout
like they do in airline specific bailout?

[01:02:41]
Or remember the old days of the auto
bailouts or those big companies?

[01:02:45]
Well, the government is like the bailout,
little rest, little companies.

[01:02:48]
They like to bail bailout
the big Wall Street.

[01:02:49]
Sure, airlines and the airlines
are bailed out every decade.

[01:02:53]
So.
Yeah, right.

[01:02:53]
So the car companies.
Right.

[01:02:55]
They don’t like the bailout,

[01:02:55]
the little guy, because it’s
harder to regulate their money.

[01:02:59]
And also, we don’t have the CEO power

[01:03:02]
that like the airlines and the rest
or the and the Wall Street people do.

[01:03:05]
So I was going to think to when you do,
do you do the restaurant bailout?

[01:03:08]
You could look into something like that.

[01:03:10]
But is it worth it?

[01:03:11]
Only to some extent.

[01:03:12]
If I’m lucky, if I put like an analyst

[01:03:15]
government hat on, it’s not
worth it to a larger extent.

[01:03:18]
But I also don’t think
airline bailout is right.

[01:03:21]
It’s like.
So I look at.

[01:03:23]
I looked at the PP loan,

[01:03:25]
and I consider that to be the government
saying, look, we have two options.

[01:03:29]
Yeah, a bunch of people can get laid off
and we can end up having to pay them

[01:03:32]
with unemployment or we can throw
money at a bunch of business owners

[01:03:36]
and they can pay unemployment sort
of whether they’re employed or not.

[01:03:40]
Those people which I did,
I gave furlough pay.

[01:03:42]
Yeah.
So, I mean, people can essentially eat,

[01:03:45]
they can pay the rent
and all that kind of stuff.

[01:03:47]
Right.

[01:03:47]
Whether it’s however
that money gets to them.

[01:03:50]
The government used a lot of business
owners essentially as a filter for that.

[01:03:54]
So to that point, I get it.

[01:03:56]
When you’re laying off 21 people,
that sucks.

[01:03:59]
Let’s 21 people that are going to have to

[01:04:02]
find a way to pay for rent
and all that kind of stuff.

[01:04:04]
And maybe some of those
people work part time.

[01:04:05]
So it’s not an issue.

[01:04:07]
They weren’t exactly
living off that money.

[01:04:09]
They had to be a fair
amount that were full time.

[01:04:10]
There was a field full time, and that was
what they’re living on for the most part.

[01:04:13]
So now they got to go chase down

[01:04:15]
a government, not for a little bit
until they find something else.

[01:04:18]
Well, the unemployment,

[01:04:19]
they get the six extra six dollars
a week through unemployment.

[01:04:21]
That helped quite a bit.
That was for a while.

[01:04:23]
Oh, my gosh.
It was tough to find employee then.

[01:04:25]
Yeah, because when you’re supposed to hire
them back, they want nothing,

[01:04:27]
make an extra twenty four hundred a month
on top of what they were making before.

[01:04:30]
Plus, you know, I did a couple of things.

[01:04:32]
I gave furlough pay to all
my staff that was on staff.

[01:04:35]
Wasn’t a lot.

[01:04:35]
I was a little bit and I
gave everybody a raise.

[01:04:38]
All right.
When the pandemic hit.

[01:04:40]
Sure.

[01:04:40]
Who was still working
for me then we reopened.

[01:04:42]
I made sure.

[01:04:43]
And when I know I was closing,
I actually announced I was closing

[01:04:46]
and told everybody there
getting a raise then, too.

[01:04:48]
All right.

[01:04:49]
So I gave everybody what they stick with,
you know, to the end.

[01:04:52]
And there’s a bonus program at the end
to see you work out all your shifts.

[01:04:54]
I got a little bonus for you at the end.
All right.

[01:04:56]
So I wanted my people
with me until the end.

[01:04:58]
So it’s like I want to take
care of my employees.

[01:05:00]
The government sort of took place,
but I want to take care of my employees

[01:05:02]
for a couple of months
working for as much as I can.

[01:05:05]
Like, you know, it’s in the day.

[01:05:07]
I can’t take care of myself anymore.
Right.

[01:05:09]
Financial perspective.

[01:05:10]
So I’m try to take care
of the employees as best I can.

[01:05:13]
So they’re making Bucho bucks in tips.

[01:05:15]
And, you know, kitchen staff got raises
and, you know, waitstaff got raises.

[01:05:19]
So everybody got a raise
as soon as I know.

[01:05:21]
So it’s closing.

[01:05:21]
And I said, if you do X, Y, Z,
there’s a bonus at the end for you.

[01:05:24]
You just got to be loyal and stick it out.
Sure.

[01:05:26]
So interesting.

[01:05:27]
And so what’s next for you?

[01:05:30]
Maybe the next few months.

[01:05:31]
But let’s see,
over the course of the year.

[01:05:33]
Yeah,

[01:05:35]
well, other than closing down operations

[01:05:37]
and figuring out where you know,
where that affects me personally,

[01:05:40]
financially, where doesn’t is a plan
to get a day job or I’ll get a job.

[01:05:44]
You know, I can go back the corporate

[01:05:46]
world or government or
teaching or something.

[01:05:48]
Sure.
Affect, you know, OK, consulting.

[01:05:50]
I don’t know.

[01:05:51]
Here’s what nothing like, you know.

[01:05:52]
Yeah, it’s I don’t know during
a pandemic if you can’t teach.

[01:05:55]
Right.
Yeah.

[01:05:56]
So but you know, other than that I don’t

[01:05:59]
have a long term plan for the first
time in like twenty years.

[01:06:01]
Okay.
And I’m kind of loving that.

[01:06:03]
All right.

[01:06:04]
It’s like I am actually really happy
to have what looks like a pretty darn

[01:06:08]
blank slate and maybe
we’ll move out of town.

[01:06:11]
All right.
Maybe we’ll move out of the country.

[01:06:13]
I don’t know.
Sure.

[01:06:14]
It’s kind of like we’ll figure that out

[01:06:15]
and I’m not going to worry
about that right now.

[01:06:18]
How I forgot to ask you this.
Right.

[01:06:20]
How did your wife react when you told her
we’re closing up shop?

[01:06:23]
Well, she knew before anybody else, right?

[01:06:25]
So she’s not even talking about it for,

[01:06:28]
you know, did she did she get that feeling
before you pulled the trigger on it?

[01:06:32]
I mean, she and I were very
honest with each other.

[01:06:34]
We always are, OK?

[01:06:35]
And, you know, it’s like this
might not be March 16th.

[01:06:40]
I said, or we might not survive this.
Right.

[01:06:42]
I’ll do everything I can,
but we might not survive this.

[01:06:44]
All right.
So that was on the table.

[01:06:46]
And by the time it came to saying we’re

[01:06:49]
going to close, you know, she knew that
the stress level on me was just great.

[01:06:53]
It was ridiculous.

[01:06:54]
Like, you know, I couldn’t sleep at night
of tossing and grinding my teeth.

[01:06:57]
My shoulders are tense.
The whole thing.

[01:06:59]
Yeah.
It just wasn’t working well for me.

[01:07:01]
And it’s kind of things like
from from my perspective,

[01:07:04]
it’s going to hurt financially,
but it might be just better in the end.

[01:07:06]
So, yeah, she knew she and I
were very open with each other.

[01:07:09]
It might just be better in the end,

[01:07:10]
as much as it wasn’t a lot
of tears over it, too.

[01:07:12]
All right.
We you have.

[01:07:14]
So I sold the business six years ago,

[01:07:20]
and when I drove past
the old shop that I used to have,

[01:07:26]
there’s still interesting
memories that go by.

[01:07:29]
So when you drive past Rockhound in three
years, what do you think you’ll feel

[01:07:33]
regardless of what it is then once there?

[01:07:36]
Well, let’s just say, for example,
it’s a brewpub, right?

[01:07:38]
Well, stop in and see
who the owners are, OK?

[01:07:41]
You know, and wish them well.

[01:07:44]
If it’s if it’s still empty,
I’ll be like, well, oh, that.

[01:07:48]
Well, that means the landlord should
of made a better deal for me.

[01:07:50]
Right.
Not to be a jerk, but.

[01:07:52]
Right.
He should have he should have put more

[01:07:54]
on the table for him
to try to keep you open.

[01:07:57]
You know, again, he’s he’s been a business
partner, has made his own businesses.

[01:08:00]
And I’m not saying he’s at fault
because he certainly isn’t

[01:08:04]
in the end.

[01:08:04]
It’s again, you know,
one of my one of my staff joked today,

[01:08:07]
he said he said if this turns
into a Starbucks, I won’t be so mad

[01:08:11]
that I cracked up.

[01:08:12]
I said at the bar,
he just he’s my bartender.

[01:08:14]
I just cracked up.

[01:08:16]
You know, maybe it’ll be a Starbucks,
maybe it’ll be a coffee shop.

[01:08:18]
Sure.
You know, take care of your own Walgreens.

[01:08:20]
Maybe a day care.
I don’t know.

[01:08:22]
Right.
They care for.

[01:08:23]
Appropriately, once a year of the brewing

[01:08:24]
equipment, so it makes them softer floors,
but on the staff, right?

[01:08:28]
Yeah, yeah.
No, it’s like three years ago.

[01:08:30]
I don’t know.
I don’t know what’ll happen.

[01:08:31]
You know, maybe I won’t be in the city
in three years and one of my friends will

[01:08:35]
probably send me a picture,
something like that.

[01:08:37]
Yeah.
What it is.

[01:08:39]
So what have you learned
from all this so far?

[01:08:41]
Don’t start a restaurant.

[01:08:42]
OK,

[01:08:45]
brutal honesty right there.
Yeah, exactly.

[01:08:47]
So, OK, no, it’s

[01:08:50]
I learned a lot of what
to do, what not to do.

[01:08:51]
I learned I’ve done a lot of things right.

[01:08:53]
I’ve done some things wrong.

[01:08:55]
And I learned that you can you can do

[01:08:56]
things as up and up and ethically
and positively as possible and still fail

[01:09:03]
and also need to be comfortable with that.

[01:09:05]
Mm hmm.
That’s interesting.

[01:09:07]
That’s that’s a great, great point.
Yeah.

[01:09:10]
I was talking with a friend of mine that’s

[01:09:11]
got a retail store on State Street
and she’s been dealt a bad hand.

[01:09:16]
Of course, it’s a mess right now.
Oh, my gosh.

[01:09:20]
Yeah, we got pandemic.

[01:09:21]
You got protests, you got homeless.

[01:09:23]
You got people just out of tents.
They’re very bad.

[01:09:27]
Oh, insane.
Insane, right?

[01:09:28]
Yeah.

[01:09:29]
I just dealt a bad hand
and she’s been doing that for

[01:09:33]
a decade plus.

[01:09:35]
And I’m like,
there’s no shame in walking away.

[01:09:38]
No, there is.

[01:09:39]
And that’s what I’ve kind of come to terms
with over the past couple of months.

[01:09:43]
You know what?

[01:09:43]
If I have to walk away,
there’s no shame in that.

[01:09:46]
I’m forty three.

[01:09:47]
Sure life isn’t over for me yet.

[01:09:49]
I can pick up the pieces and figure out

[01:09:50]
what to do next and use this as
a great learning experience.

[01:09:52]
Maybe I’ll write a book someday.
Who knows.

[01:09:54]
Yeah, chalk it up to experience
and move on, I guess is what um.

[01:09:58]
What I would say.

[01:10:00]
I’m looking for the next chapter also

[01:10:01]
that much I’m absolutely looking forward
to what’s next and getting the mental

[01:10:04]
weight of this off of my shoulders
and looking for that next chapter of life

[01:10:08]
and see where it takes me
and having that blank slate again.

[01:10:11]
Yeah.

[01:10:12]
That midnight or 2:00 am on November
14th will be an interesting time.

[01:10:17]
I don’t know what closing time is in pandemic.
Well, yeah.

[01:10:19]
Whenever people leave I suppose.

[01:10:21]
OK, get out we’re done.

[01:10:23]
We’re done well
by 2 a.m. so. Interesting.

[01:10:27]
Interesting.
So, Nate

[01:10:28]
I want to thank you so much
for being on the show.

[01:10:30]
Absolutely.
Where I guess how can people order

[01:10:33]
from you online for the next
month ish, few weeks?

[01:10:38]
RockhoundBrewing.com.
All right.

[01:10:40]
Real simple.

[01:10:41]
Rockhound brewing NOT brewery,
rockhoundbrewing.com.

[01:10:43]
And there’s a link on there
for online ordering system.

[01:10:46]
And if for some reason they can’t
get that to work, give us a call.

[01:10:48]
But it should work pretty well for almost
everything, including beer vouchers.

[01:10:52]
Oh, nice.
Yeah.

[01:10:53]
Just come in and claim their
beer with a voucher and an ID. OK.

[01:10:57]
What’s a beer voucher?

[01:10:58]
Well, you can’t legally
sell beer online but

[01:10:59]
you can sell pieces of paper online

[01:11:04]
Play the game, the game.

[01:11:06]
That’s so interesting.

[01:11:07]
Oh, thank you so much
for being on the show.

[01:11:09]
This is cool.

[01:11:10]
Is there anything else you want
to share with your people as closing?

[01:11:13]
No.

[01:11:13]
I mean, obviously, you know,
thanks to all of our my staff and my wife

[01:11:16]
and and of course, all of our
patrons during the whole thing.

[01:11:19]
It’s been a lot of fun and it’s it sucks.

[01:11:21]
But,

[01:11:23]
you know, I really
appreciate what everybody did for us.

[01:11:26]
Sure.
Chalk it up to experience and move on.

[01:11:28]
Yeah, exactly.
Cool.

[01:11:29]
This has been Authentic Business

[01:11:31]
Adventures,
the business program that brings you

[01:11:33]
the struggles, stories and triumphant
successes or closures, whatever.

[01:11:37]
Yeah.

[01:11:38]
Coming to you from our makeshift
studio here during this covid time.

[01:11:42]
My name is James Kademan

[01:11:43]
and Authentic Businesses Adventures is
brought to you by Calls On Call,

[01:11:47]
offering call answering services
and receptionist services for small

[01:11:51]
businesses across the country, on the web
at CallsOnCall.com. As well as

[01:11:55]
Draw In Customers Business Coaching,
offering coaching services

[01:11:59]
for entrepreneurs in all
stages of their business.

[01:12:02]
Maybe not right at the end,
but what are you going to do?

[01:12:04]
It could be real, could be, you know,
probably something we can tell you.

[01:12:08]
On the web at DrawInCustomers.com.

[01:12:10]
And of course, The Bold Business Book,
a book for the entrepreneur in all of us

[01:12:14]
available on Amazon and wherever
fine books are sold.

[01:12:17]
We’d like to thank you our wonderful
listeners, as well as our guest,

[01:12:20]
Nate Warnke, owner
of Rockhound Brewing Company.

[01:12:23]
Nate, thank you so much for being on the show.
Thanks, James.

[01:12:25]
I’m going to include a link

[01:12:26]
to the original interview that we had, was it was a couple of years ago?

[01:12:32]
Man, time flies.

[01:12:33]
It would be interesting to just see, man,
so much has happened.

[01:12:37]
Yeah, so much has happened.

[01:12:39]
But at any rate, whatever you do,
you should go check out Nate’s

[01:12:42]
Rockhound Brewing while you still can.

[01:12:45]
November 14th is the last day? November 14th,

[01:12:47]
last day to the public other than
beer sales we’ll still have beer

[01:12:49]
after that. You will?

[01:12:50]
Well we think so.

[01:12:51]
We’ll do beer sales
a couple of days a week.

[01:12:53]
But November 14th is the last full
service day. Get the beer.

[01:12:56]
It’s good stuff.
Find this airing

[01:12:57]
on 103.5 Wednesdays
at 1:00 p.m., Sundays at two p.m., as well

[01:13:01]
as at SunPrairieMediaCenter.com
Past episodes can be found

[01:13:04]
morning, noon, and night.

[01:13:05]
at the podcast link found at
DrawInCustomers.com.

[01:13:08]
Thank you for listening.
We’ll see you next week.

[01:13:10]
I want you to stay awesome.

[01:13:12]
And if you do nothing else,
this is probably terrible advice for Nate.

[01:13:15]
Enjoy your business!
Thanks, man.

[01:13:18]
Thank you.