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Sarry Ibrahim – Financial Asset Protection
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You have found
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Authentic Business Adventures,
the business program that brings you
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the struggle
stories and triumphant successes
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of business owners across
the land. Coming to you.
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Well, we’re just wherever we are,
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right? Sarry, I don’t even know where
you are today. Where are you at?
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Hey, James, I’m actually
in Chicago, Illinois.
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Awesome.
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OK, well, you’re not that far
just by Madison here.
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So we’re we’re both
in the somewhat frozen tundra.
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Right.
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Past episodes
of the Authentic Business Adventures
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podcast, just as a reminder can be found at
DrawInCustomers.com/podcast.
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My name is James Kademan, entrepreneur,
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author, speaker and helpful coach to small
business owners across the country.
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And today we are welcoming/preparing
to learn from Sarry Ibrahim,
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a financial professional,
a member of the Bank on Yourself
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organization and the owner
of Financial Asset Protection.
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So, Sarry, how are you doing today?
Hey, James.
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Good, good.
How are you?
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I’m doing very well.
I’m doing very well.
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I’m excited.
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And I guess I’d be lying if I said
I wasn’t a little bit curious.
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So let’s just dig right into it.
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What is Financial Asset Protection?
The business?
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Yeah, definitely.
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So we are a financial services
firm located in Chicago, Illinois.
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Pretty much what we do is we help
clients build safe, predictable wealth.
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A lot of our clients are business
owners and real estate investors.
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We don’t typically work with mutual funds
or index funds or the stock market.
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We typically work with a little known
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strategy that is secure and has
guaranteed and predictable growth.
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All right.
So pretty much kind of started.
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This company has been around for about five
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years, but during that time, actually,
the way I got into this whole
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organization and everything was through
Medicare, I was a Medicare consultant
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and I was working with a lot of retirees,
people who were like 64,
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65 years old and pretty
much merging onto their own plans.
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And I was there consultant at that time
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and one of my clients asked
me about life insurance.
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He’s like, hey, you’re a broker, right?
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Could you help me with life insurance?
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And I told him I had my license,
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but I wasn’t really sure exactly
of the intricate parts of life insurance.
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It is like he wanted life insurance
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that also had cash value in it, like
a savings account that grew over time.
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And I wasn’t really sure
of what he was referring to.
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So I told him I would do research for him.
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I get back to him and I did.
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And I went to Amazon and I searched
for books about life insurance.
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And then came across this book called
The Bank On Yourself Revolution
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by Pamela Yellen and pretty much talks
about this strategy called the Bank
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on Yourself Strategy or the bank on yourself concept.
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It’s also similar to the
infinite banking concept.
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Pretty much it’s using an insurance
product to build up wealth over time
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and to not have to worry about the stock
market, to not have to rely on banks.
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And also, while you’re doing this, you
can become your own source of financing.
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So that’s what we do and that’s
what we help clients do.
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Interesting.
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So you’re dealing with Medicare
at the time you were how old is this guy?
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He was like seventy
around seventy years old.
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And he’s coming to you
looking for a whole life policy.
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Yeah.
So that’s a good question, actually.
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Good observation.
So it’s hard to do that when you’re around
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seventy years old, but it’s still possible
you can still underwriting is a little bit
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less strict when it’s when you’re
working with single premium cases.
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That’s where it’s like a lump sum case
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into a life insurance policy,
like somebody is rolling over a 401k IRA.
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The underwriting behind that seems to be
could be a little bit less strict.
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But yeah, typically life insurance,
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you want to get that when you’re
younger years to get better rates on it.
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Sure, because I imagine
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a policy for 70 year old guy is ten
thousand dollars a month or something
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like a 70 year old guy dying isn’t like,
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oh my gosh, get the front
page of the newspaper ready.
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I don’t know what the average lifespan is,
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but I imagine for a guy, it’s in the
neighborhood of seventy two seventy four.
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Yeah.
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Typically in that situation they would be
doing like a single premium case,
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like rolling over like four hundred
thousand dollars and he would instantly
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have like six hundred thousand
dollars life insurance.
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That’s, that’s a typical case
with somebody over the age of 70 or even
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over the age of sixty five
doing one of these policies.
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And then is he at that point,
is he also receiving a monthly nut?
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So no it’s actually at that point he’d
be paying up the whole policy.
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It’s like buying a house in cash.
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He’d be pretty much buying it all up
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and then not have to pay
anything on top of that.
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But he would have liquidity.
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He’d be able to borrow against that cash
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value at any time and then still
have it grow, still have it grow
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even when he borrowed that money.
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Imagine you have a savings account
that’s earning you five percent interest
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on it and then you want
it to access that money.
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If you access from it,
you would interrupt the growth of it.
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Right.
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But if you borrow against it,
let’s say you could borrow against it
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and then pay like two percent interest
on that loan that you borrow against it.
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You can still get the growth in the policy
while being able to use that money.
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That’s kind of what this
whole strategy is about.
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It’s about growing the wealth.
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And then when you want to access it,
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you borrow against it
from a different source.
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So that way you’re not interrupting
the growth of the of your money.
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Oh, interesting.
All right.
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We just you brought up a couple of things.
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I’m like, wait, what? First of all,
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what a savings account that’s paying
five percent because I want to find that one.
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Exactly, yeah.
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The one that I have is like point zero one percent.
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That’s pretty typical.
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Yeah, I don’t think there’s any savings
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account that’s paying five percent
interest right now. And then,
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yeah, and then you mentioned that you can
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essentially borrow against your
investment without losing.
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So let’s just say just for easy numbers,
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I say I got a five hundred
thousand dollar investment,
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I want to buy a boat, whatever.
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So I pull a hundred thousand
dollars out of that.
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I’m not reducing the interest earning
power of my five hundred thousand.
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Correct, exactly.
You’re borrowing against it.
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All right.
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So tell me, I guess just help
me understand how that works.
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Yeah, definitely.
So we are
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pretty much what we’re talking about here
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is using a whole life insurance
policy we’re not talking about.
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So pretty much whole life
insurance has two aspects.
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There are two parts to it.
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One part is the life insurance part, and
the second part is the cash value part.
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That’s like a savings
account in the policy.
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And then as you’re building up the cash
in the savings account part of the policy,
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you’re earning interest
and dividends on that money.
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It’s growing over time, it’s compounding.
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And then when you want to access that,
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you would ask the insurance
company for a loan.
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It’s like a personal loan between
you and the insurance company.
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And then when they give you that loan
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that you borrow, you’re not
subtracting from the balance.
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You’re borrowing against it.
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So they’re pretty much
self collateralized.
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They’re collateralized in the deposits of
the loan that they’re giving you.
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So the money itself is essentially coming
from two different places exactly as
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collateral of the money that you have
in this policy.
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And then the insurance company
essentially lending to you gogia.
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That makes sense that it’s
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much more you explain that so
much faster than a lot of other
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stuff.
Appreciate that.
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The other thing I want to ask you about is
this guy, the 70 year old guy is going
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to pull his photo ID card
to throw it in this policy.
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I imagine there’s some tax excuse
me, ramifications for doing that.
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Is it safe to say,
yeah, typically with life insurance,
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when you’re funding it,
you’re using after tax dollars.
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So pretty much if you in this example,
let’s say that somebody has five hundred
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thousand dollars in a 401K and they
want to move five hundred thousand
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into a life insurance policy,
they can’t just roll five hundred thousand
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from the forward into the life insurance
policy and completely dodge taxes they
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would have to use after tax dollars
to fund the life insurance policy.
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So let’s say, for example,
20 percent went to taxes.
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So five hundred thousand take
off one hundred thousand taxes.
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They would’ve been four
hundred thousand dollar.
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Or what they could do is take five hundred
thousand dollars from the 401K,
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put the entire amount in the life
insurance policy,
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but then pay the tax liability,
the tax bill from the insurance policy so
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that when you take the money out,
they essentially ask you,
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do you want taxes to be withheld or do
you want to pay the taxes on your own?
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All right.
You could do it that way.
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You could use a policy to pretty much
finance your tax liability the other way.
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Interesting.
OK, interesting.
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And then pretty much the growth
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of the policy as it’s as it’s earning
compound interest and growing.
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It’s growing tax deferred.
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So you don’t have to claim those
on your taxes as it’s growing.
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And then, of course,
the death benefit is tax free, too.
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So there are tax benefits or tax
advantages using the strategy as well.
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And I really want to share this on your
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podcast, because a lot of business owners
could use a strategy, you know,
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while they’re still, you know,
in their 30s or 40s.
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They could still use a strategy.
Sure.
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To be able to recoup
a lot of their profits.
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You know, for example,
let’s say you have a business and you’re
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pretty much earning like, let’s say just
rough numbers of fifty thousand dollars
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a month in revenue and then you
have your expenses after that.
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What you could do is you can have some
of those dollars go into a whole life
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policy, build up the cash value, and then
you use the policy to pay your expenses.
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Some businesses have like 30 or 60 days
or 90 days to pay off their bills.
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They could use this policy in between,
you know, exchanging hands so that they
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could earn interest on their money
and kind of have cash reserves in their
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business growing and compounding
while they’re running their business.
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Interest in that, that’s a life insurance
policy, that the business would then hold
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on the owner so you
could do it either way.
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So we always do a financial analysis
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with clients to kind
of figure these things out.
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You could do it both ways.
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You could personally own a life insurance
policy and then loan the money to your
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business and have your
business pay yourself back.
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Kind of you’re pretty much
becoming your own lender.
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Or you can have the business own the life
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insurance policy as an asset
on its balance sheet.
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And it pretty much be like a cash reserve
in place for the business to restore its
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cash and kind of have
an internal line of credit.
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Interesting.
And what a typical.
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Account like this, how much are we talking
from an interest point of view
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so the cash does grow two ways,
it grows from interest and dividends,
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and then you can kind of see with both
of those compounded with each other,
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you can kind of see between five
and six percent growth every year.
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And what are my favorite things about this
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is that it’s not like
an either or approach.
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It’s not either.
I put money into this whole, like,
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policy or I invest in my business
or I do real estate.
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It’s a way we can kind of do all
these things at the same time.
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You could fund it, grow the cash value,
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borrow against it, and then use
that money to invest in different places.
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There’s no restrictions on what
you could use the money for.
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You can kind of have your dollars
working for you in numerous places.
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Interesting. Is that a one to one ratio,
like if I throw one hundred thousand
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dollars in there, then borrow one hundred
thousand dollars against the policy?
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Typically, no, because there’s going to be
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some fees involved with the
with the with the product.
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And then also the insurance company can
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give you like one hundred
percent financing.
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They need some collateral.
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So they usually give like
a 10 percent cushion.
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So they’ll give you like 90 percent
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of your current cash value
with a lot of single premium cases.
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That’s where you just do like a lump sum
transaction with a lot of those cases.
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If somebody puts in one hundred thousand,
they’re cash value might be ninety five
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thousand and then they can borrow up to 90
percent of the ninety five thousand.
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So they could they’d have to leave some
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room in there to account
for the collateral.
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All right.
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And you raise an interesting point
here with the term cash value.
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Does I mean, if I throw my hundred
thousand dollars in there and if I ever
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want to pull out,
I can get ninety five back?
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Yes, that’s in the first year.
And then after that,
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it grows about five to six percent every
year after that year,
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even without any more dollars going into,
it’s still going to grow.
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So typically the first year you’ll see
about ninety five thousand in cash value.
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The next year, you know,
five to six percent growth on that.
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And then the death benefit, of course,
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the life insurance that also
grows every year, too.
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Gotcha.
Interesting.
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Very interesting.
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So do you find most people give a lump sum
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or do you find most people just try to do
that monthly
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or feels like with a whole life policy
you’re trying to play catch up
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for the first 10 or 15 years?
Typically, you’re right.
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Typically with whole life insurance,
a lot of the traditional old school life
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insurance policies, it takes about
15 years just to break even.
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We we only use companies that have
a proven track record of paying dividends
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and interest for over
one hundred sixty years.
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We also structure
a little bit differently.
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Instead of doing one hundred percent life
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insurance, we’ll do like
50 percent life insurance.
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And then 50 percent of this thing called
the paid up additions rider that the rider
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is something you add onto the policy
that helps turbo charge the cash value.
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So we’ve worked on cases where like year
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three that could break even and then
start getting gains after year three.
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So interesting.
Yeah.
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Can you explain that last
part that you mentioned?
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Yeah.
Yeah.
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So pretty much.
Let’s say somebody puts in ten thousand
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dollars a year, year one, they might
have a slight dip in their cash value.
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So they pay ten thousand
dollars into the policy.
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They’ll have like six or seven thousand
dollars in cash value a year or two.
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They put another ten thousand.
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Now they’re cash value is they’re like
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twenty, twenty three thousand,
twenty four thousand.
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And then the third year now they’ve
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exceeded their cash value might be thirty
two thousand or thirty three thousand.
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So they’re already kind of on the
upward trend after year three.
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And we typically that’s what we aim for.
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We aim for the break even point to be
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around year three and year four and then
after that to start seeing that
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compounding growth afterwards
throughout the years.
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Now, to answer the other question
you had about what do we do?
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Do we do a single premium
cases or do we do monthly?
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It all comes down
to the financial analysis.
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You know, this helps us determine how much
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cash the client has, cash flow,
income, other sources of income.
[00:12:51]
And we pretty much put it all together.
[00:12:52]
And then to come up with a strategy
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that helps them, you know,
advance their financial situation.
[00:12:58]
So in some situations,
if it’s a real estate investor,
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they have like three properties and are
expecting to sell them and they’re
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expected to sell each one for like
four hundred thousand in cash.
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A single premium case might be good
[00:13:08]
for that person because they have large
amounts of large amounts of cash and it
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might be some delays between them finding
their next property so they can have
[00:13:15]
that money sitting in the whole policy
in between find the next property.
[00:13:18]
Now, if it’s somebody who’s younger,
they’re like twenty five or thirty years
[00:13:21]
old, they’re still
starting up their lives.
[00:13:23]
You know, we could do a policy that’s
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a three hundred or five hundred dollars
a month and then that would grow and earn
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interest over time and still be
liquidity, still have liquidity.
[00:13:30]
And it’s awesome.
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You know, it doesn’t just
end there with one policy.
[00:13:34]
We always do a six month
review with clients.
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We show them how we test
out their cash value.
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We see we run that alongside
their businesses.
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We see what’s happening.
Like, is this all this working?
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Is it?
Are there any improvements?
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And then we might add new
policies as as we’re going along.
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So it’s very common to see a client have,
you know, a single premium case
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and monthly payment case
of both both situations.
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Gotcha.
So I guess the main advantage that I can
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see of this, since five percent is decent,
but it’s not stellar,
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the main advantage is that you can
essentially use the money in two ways.
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One is it’s growing at five percent or
whatever, and then you can also borrow
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against it to use it as
an investment somewhere else.
[00:14:11]
Exactly.
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Yeah, you could take that money out
and put it somewhere that could
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potentially early, you know,
10 or 12 percent that way.
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And then if something happens
to that investment you have.
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Your original cash value to fall back on,
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it’s almost like a hedge
against that risk.
[00:14:25]
Sure, interesting.
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And the.
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What the insurance company is charging you
for essentially lending you that money
[00:14:34]
that’s low, I guess, as far as it goes,
are fairly inexpensive.
[00:14:39]
Is that the idea?
[00:14:40]
Typically, it’s five percent simple
interest, so five percent simple interest.
[00:14:45]
When you compare that, for example,
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on a four year run, it comes out
to about two percent approve.
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So a lot of times what happens is people,
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for example, will borrow
from their policy at five percent.
[00:14:54]
Simple interest earn five to six percent
compound interest on their money.
[00:14:59]
Eventually, the growth of their money
outpaces what the cost of capital was.
[00:15:03]
So it ends up being almost like a negative
interest rate,
[00:15:05]
like imagine buying property and then five
years later, you have the property paid up
[00:15:10]
through the insurance
company that you use.
[00:15:12]
You have the appreciation in the policy
[00:15:14]
and you have the appreciation in
the property that you finance.
[00:15:17]
So your cash grew two ways and actually
the growth of the cash over time outpaces
[00:15:22]
what you paid in capital
to use that money.
[00:15:26]
Interesting.
So this I can’t help but ask this then.
[00:15:31]
The insurance company
is making money and they’re not
[00:15:34]
doing this out of charity
or kindness or anything.
[00:15:37]
So how do they make their money if
everyone is just throwing their money
[00:15:41]
in their policy and then turning
around to borrow it again?
[00:15:44]
Yes.
[00:15:45]
So the insurance company
has some banking functions.
[00:15:47]
They’re pretty much investing
their money in different places.
[00:15:50]
Like, for example, when you go to a bank
[00:15:51]
and you deposit a hundred bucks in a bank,
you’re pretty much loaning a bank money.
[00:15:55]
You’re loaning them one hundred dollars.
[00:15:57]
Now the bank is in debt to you.
One hundred dollars.
[00:15:59]
They’re taking that money and they’re
investing in different places.
[00:16:01]
They’re earning interest on it,
[00:16:02]
but yet they don’t give you
anything back on your money.
[00:16:04]
The only thing the bank is giving you is
[00:16:06]
a guarantee that you could pull one
hundred dollars out any time you want.
[00:16:08]
That’s kind of a tradeoff
with using a bank.
[00:16:10]
Insurance companies are the same way.
[00:16:12]
You’re giving them premium dollars.
[00:16:13]
They’re guaranteeing you a life insurance
or other cases, other types of insurance.
[00:16:17]
But on the back end,
[00:16:18]
they’re using those premium dollars and
they’re investing it in different places.
[00:16:21]
The difference between what banks do
[00:16:22]
with their money and insurance
companies is about risk management.
[00:16:25]
Banks can kind of invest
more on riskier sides.
[00:16:28]
They can loan money out via
credit cards, mortgages.
[00:16:31]
They could do riskier investments
and earn higher rates of return.
[00:16:34]
Whereas insurance companies
[00:16:36]
have to be very cautious with where
they invest their money.
[00:16:39]
They can only typically invest in the bond
[00:16:40]
market about 60 to 80 percent of their
portfolios in the bond market.
[00:16:44]
And the 20 the other 20 to 40 percent are
[00:16:46]
in loans to other financial
institutions and to their customers.
[00:16:49]
So when you go to an insurance company,
[00:16:51]
you have your whole life policy with them
and then you borrow the money from them.
[00:16:54]
You’re paying the interest
back to the insurance company.
[00:16:57]
That’s one of their sources of income.
[00:16:59]
That’s kind of how they make money.
[00:17:01]
And again, it comes down
to the risk part of it.
[00:17:03]
The insurance companies we work with,
[00:17:05]
they’ve been around for over
one hundred and sixty years.
[00:17:07]
They have a proven track record of paying
dividends and interest,
[00:17:09]
unlike a lot of banks who kind of come
and go, especially after 2008.
[00:17:13]
You know, I remember like I can’t even
[00:17:15]
remember the names of the banks before
2008 because they’re kind of, you know,
[00:17:19]
they’ve kind of like vanished
by that time, during that time.
[00:17:23]
Whereas insurance companies
have a very long track record.
[00:17:25]
They have very solid names because of what
they’re doing there with their dollars.
[00:17:29]
So we always tell clients,
[00:17:30]
I think about like you’re going into when
you’re when you’re passively investing
[00:17:33]
somewhere, passively saving your money
somewhere, you’re essentially going
[00:17:36]
into business with that
company or that person.
[00:17:38]
And you want to go into business
[00:17:39]
with somebody who’s been around
for a really long time and who has a track
[00:17:43]
record of paying out dividends
and interest for a really long time.
[00:17:46]
And insurance companies are
typically really good at doing that.
[00:17:49]
OK,
so just I guess for the people listening
[00:17:52]
here, this is not something that’s
federally insured or something like that.
[00:17:56]
Yeah, correct.
It’s not it’s not FDIC insured.
[00:17:59]
So if this business
if the insurance company goes belly up,
[00:18:04]
you could have a bad day,
[00:18:06]
just like a stock market investments
or something like that, right?
[00:18:09]
Yeah.
Yeah.
[00:18:09]
And there is something called a guaranteed
association with insurance companies
[00:18:13]
that guarantee the claims
that the insurance company signed into.
[00:18:18]
So, for example, if an insurance company
[00:18:20]
agreed to pay out all these claims
and they went out of business,
[00:18:22]
there is a government entity on a state
level that get those claims.
[00:18:27]
Yeah.
All right.
[00:18:27]
All right.
[00:18:29]
I’ll tell you, man,
the whole insurance world is just
[00:18:33]
something that I have never really
poked around much on on so many levels.
[00:18:38]
Right.
I’ll giving just really quick example.
[00:18:39]
I don’t know how relevant it is,
but we had
[00:18:44]
I had done my garage years ago and the
contractor that I had is like, hey, man,
[00:18:50]
you’re going to have to do the roof.
[00:18:52]
And it looks like your
roof has hail damage.
[00:18:54]
So just submit a claim
[00:18:56]
with your insurance company and they’ll
essentially end up paying for part
[00:18:59]
of the roof and you’ll be
stuck paying for the new roof.
[00:19:02]
I’m like, OK, I’m not a roofing guy.
[00:19:05]
So I called the insurance company.
[00:19:07]
They send out a person and that person
[00:19:09]
says there’s a little bit of damage,
but not enough to justify a claim
[00:19:13]
like go back to the contractor.
And I’m like,
[00:19:15]
OK, the insurance company said, no, you’re
saying yes, I don’t know what to do.
[00:19:21]
And he’s like, call him again.
[00:19:22]
So I call them again.
[00:19:24]
And they send somebody else out and they
essentially say the same thing.
[00:19:28]
He’s a guy, your insurance
company is crap.
[00:19:30]
They’re no good.
[00:19:31]
Later, we’re talking four.
[00:19:35]
It was four years and 10 months later,
[00:19:38]
I got to change my homeowner’s policy,
the homeowner’s policy,
[00:19:42]
the quote comes back and I’m like,
all right, rock and roll.
[00:19:44]
Here we go.
[00:19:46]
And about three days later,
I get a letter.
[00:19:48]
Now, this is the broker,
[00:19:49]
the insurance broker, just someone
I know from networking, whatever.
[00:19:53]
And she’s like, hey, James, funny story.
[00:19:55]
You remember that quote that I gave you?
Yeah.
[00:19:56]
It’s actually five hundred
dollars more a year.
[00:19:59]
I’m like, well, that’s kind of a big jump.
What happened?
[00:20:02]
She’s like, well, you got a claim on your
roof here, but and I’m like, no, no.
[00:20:08]
We tried to get a claim on the roof,
but they told us to go pound sand.
[00:20:12]
Yeah, and she’s like, well,
[00:20:14]
it doesn’t matter if you make a claim,
regardless of what the claim was paid,
[00:20:19]
the insurance companies
consider that a claim.
[00:20:22]
I’m like, wait what?
And that led me to this whole rabbit hole
[00:20:25]
of finding out there’s some company
that keeps track of all this kind of stuff
[00:20:28]
and they keep track of this
claim thing for five years.
[00:20:32]
And I’m like, wait,
we’re just like I think by the time all is
[00:20:35]
said and done, it was less than a month
away from the five year window.
[00:20:38]
Someday you’re going to charge me five
hundred dollars extra for this one month.
[00:20:42]
And she’s like, them’s the rules.
[00:20:44]
OK, so I walked away.
[00:20:46]
I just kept what I had.
[00:20:48]
Yeah, that’s unfortunate.
[00:20:49]
But I worked in with a lot of homeowners
insurance companies before I worked
[00:20:53]
at Allstate and we typically calculate
how much was paid out during that time.
[00:20:57]
If it’s zero,
then we go to the underwriters,
[00:20:59]
we tell the underwriters, take the claim
off because it was a zero hour payout.
[00:21:02]
So interesting.
[00:21:04]
I think the broker could have done that.
[00:21:05]
It depends on the company, though.
[00:21:06]
This is more like Allstate,
State Farm Farmers Insurance.
[00:21:09]
Yeah, this was this was one of those
that I was going to go to.
[00:21:14]
And they had she had her
rule book that said that.
[00:21:18]
And she she is kind of funny.
[00:21:21]
This is where, like,
Sarcastic James kicks in.
[00:21:23]
She’s like, it’s just five hundred
dollars is not the end of the world.
[00:21:26]
And I’m like, well, you’re
a billion dollar company.
[00:21:29]
Probably not the end of the world for you.
[00:21:32]
It was not the end of the world for me.
[00:21:34]
It’s certainly not the end
of the world for you.
[00:21:36]
So I told her to pound sand.
[00:21:40]
But it was interesting just going down
that rabbit hole to see who’s keeping
[00:21:43]
track of all the stuff where there’s
not even a no payment was made.
[00:21:47]
Yeah, it’s kind of like a catch 22 kind
of thing where it’s like technically it is
[00:21:51]
a claim made, but then zero dollars
payout, meaning that if you look back
[00:21:55]
at that record from the same
company would show they paid zero.
[00:21:57]
So then the insurance company could then
remove that claim because it’s paid out.
[00:22:02]
And yeah, you’re right,
insurance companies do hold this data.
[00:22:05]
They hold this information so that they
can kind of protect each other.
[00:22:09]
Right.
[00:22:10]
And people don’t go to like one company,
you know, take a whole claim.
[00:22:12]
They go to another company
to get taken on a claim.
[00:22:14]
And then you just kind of keep
doing that over and over again.
[00:22:16]
You get to keep people honest and stuff
like that, like I just did
[00:22:19]
with my contractor said it wasn’t
like I was up there with a hammer.
[00:22:22]
And I feel
[00:22:26]
like I’m just like, OK,
[00:22:27]
I felt like such a pawn because I’m
like I’m the one paying for all this.
[00:22:31]
And I don’t like what
the insurance companies say.
[00:22:34]
And I owe more on that side.
[00:22:35]
And the contractor guy saying that I owe
more on that side, like, wait a second.
[00:22:41]
This is I feel like I was just less
educated than I should have been
[00:22:45]
and I didn’t even know where
to get the education I had.
[00:22:49]
I really had to press
[00:22:51]
this woman that was trying
to sell me insurance.
[00:22:53]
I can’t even think
of the name of the company
[00:22:56]
that keeps track of all this.
[00:22:57]
But I’m like, that’s your job.
That’s your business.
[00:22:59]
This is keep track of claims.
Yeah.
[00:23:02]
Nationally, for all these insurance
companies, what a crazy business.
[00:23:06]
But it’s just one of those.
[00:23:08]
Like, you’re not making
the world a better place at all.
[00:23:11]
Yes, I try to do that with my businesses,
[00:23:14]
maybe I’m just kind of a rainbows
and unicorns kind of guy,
[00:23:19]
you serve in the zombie apocalypse.
[00:23:21]
No one’s going to be like,
quick, we need another director.
[00:23:24]
Yeah, that’s true.
[00:23:26]
It’s kind of there’s some things I don’t
[00:23:27]
like about, you know, like it’s definitely
a very heavily capitalized thing.
[00:23:32]
You know, you’re holding all these dollars
[00:23:33]
and then you’re trying your hardest
to retain these dollars right.
[00:23:37]
Before paying them out to people.
[00:23:40]
Yeah, I get I guess in the end,
insurance is just a promise that you pay
[00:23:44]
for that you hope the insurance company
doesn’t have to keep
[00:23:48]
or you don’t have to ask them to keep
is essentially what it comes down to.
[00:23:51]
Yeah.
[00:23:52]
So, yeah, at any rate,
let’s talk about you and your business
[00:23:55]
specifically. How did you get
involved in the Medicare thing?
[00:24:00]
Yeah,
so I kind of just kind of word of mouth
[00:24:03]
where I was actually working
at Allstate before that.
[00:24:05]
And that really
[00:24:07]
kind of word was when around between
my colleagues there,
[00:24:10]
like you could make a big difference
with Medicare. And I actually like I was
[00:24:14]
kind of confused when I first did it,
but then when I started to actually do it
[00:24:17]
and going out to people’s homes
and sitting with them and showing them
[00:24:19]
like, you know, this is how
I would do an analysis with the clients
[00:24:23]
to look where your doctors what kind
of prescription drugs are you taking it?
[00:24:26]
We try to match that with the right plan
[00:24:28]
to make sure that they were
going to be taken care of.
[00:24:30]
And then people start appreciating this
[00:24:31]
a lot like, hey, this is a big deal,
what you’re doing.
[00:24:33]
You’re coming out here,
you’re doing all this work for us.
[00:24:35]
And people would always say,
look how much I owe you.
[00:24:37]
And I would say, I don’t charge any fees.
[00:24:39]
I get paid directly
from the insurance company.
[00:24:40]
You know, I’m like a broker.
I get paid from the insurance company.
[00:24:42]
I don’t charge any fees.
And they’d be shocked like that.
[00:24:45]
I’m not charging them
a fee from from all this.
[00:24:47]
So I saw a lot of gratitude
from doing this.
[00:24:49]
And it was kind of it became like and I
still do Medicare, I still do it.
[00:24:53]
I still have my clients.
[00:24:54]
I still prospect.
[00:24:56]
So I kind of it was kind of unintended.
But after I did it,
[00:25:00]
I kind of state and of course it led
me to the bank on yourself concept.
[00:25:04]
And so it kind of goes it kind of goes
[00:25:06]
hand in hand,
has a lot to do with retirement planning
[00:25:08]
and just planning for the future
and pretty much overall helping people.
[00:25:11]
And I think that one thing is really cool
[00:25:13]
about entrepreneurship is that it’s
more of like Problem-Solving, right?
[00:25:16]
It’s you’re finding a problem and you’re
connecting the solution and you get a fee
[00:25:20]
for collecting connecting people together,
either directly or indirectly, somehow,
[00:25:25]
some way you would get
paid for doing that.
[00:25:26]
Sure.
[00:25:27]
Tell me you raise
an interesting point here.
[00:25:30]
I guess I don’t want to get too far off
topic, but let’s just talk about how you
[00:25:35]
get paid, because the commission world,
especially when it comes to financial
[00:25:39]
products that can be there
can be a shady area.
[00:25:43]
So can you just talk about
that a little bit? Yeah, definitely.
[00:25:46]
Yeah.
Thank you.
[00:25:46]
And I like to be as transparent as
[00:25:48]
possible with this with clients,
because typically in the financial
[00:25:50]
services world,
there’s kind of for the most part,
[00:25:52]
not every part, but for the most part,
that’s kind of two different avenues.
[00:25:56]
One is like our fees are assets under
management, where, for example,
[00:26:01]
you go to a financial advisor,
you park one hundred thousand dollars
[00:26:04]
a year with one hundred
thousand dollars with them.
[00:26:06]
They get paid, you know,
[00:26:07]
one to two percent every year for the life
of as long as with that advisor.
[00:26:11]
That’s how a lot of financial
advisors make money.
[00:26:13]
They charge portfolio management fees.
[00:26:15]
They charge, you know, one percent up
to two percent something between there.
[00:26:19]
And then there’s the commission world.
[00:26:20]
This is more on the insurance side.
[00:26:21]
This is you go to your financial advisor,
who is also a licensed insurance agent,
[00:26:26]
and then you would take, for example,
one hundred thousand dollars,
[00:26:28]
put it in an annuity or life insurance
product, and then that broker advisor
[00:26:32]
would get paid commission
from an insurance company that they used
[00:26:35]
for that transaction and then
they would get paid commission.
[00:26:37]
We are on the commission side now.
[00:26:41]
This is also you mentioned a good point,
[00:26:42]
too, that it can kind
of get a little bit shady.
[00:26:43]
Right, because me talking to a client,
[00:26:46]
they might think that the only reason why
I’m recommending this specific company is
[00:26:49]
because I’m essentially going
to get commission from them.
[00:26:51]
And that is true.
[00:26:53]
The good thing, though,
is I am an independent broker.
[00:26:55]
We’re an independent agency.
[00:26:56]
That means that we’re not captive to one
company we don’t have to sell for.
[00:27:00]
You know, we work with typically three
[00:27:01]
companies. Lafayette insurance company,
Security Mutual and Foresters Financial.
[00:27:06]
We’re not captive to each one.
[00:27:07]
We’re only doing this because we feel
that these products can best fit the bank
[00:27:11]
on yourself strategy,
which could best fit the client.
[00:27:14]
And if the client, for example,
just somehow we find another company,
[00:27:18]
a fourth company that could do all
of these things better,
[00:27:20]
I’m in no situation or I’m not
held captive to these companies.
[00:27:24]
So I could balance it and pivot
and do the fourth company.
[00:27:26]
If there was a fourth company,
that is always better.
[00:27:29]
So pretty much we’ve kind of positioned
our agency to represent the clients first
[00:27:32]
and then represent
the insurance companies.
[00:27:35]
Another good thing,
[00:27:36]
too, about commission only is that we only
get paid from the first year commission.
[00:27:40]
So that means, for example,
if somebody is putting in four hundred
[00:27:43]
thousand dollars into a policy and their
cash value in year one is three seventy
[00:27:47]
five, the twenty five thousand dollar
difference, a part of that comes to us,
[00:27:51]
not the entire amount,
but a part of it comes to us.
[00:27:53]
The other part goes to the underwriters,
[00:27:55]
actuaries, the medical company that does
the lab testing and all that.
[00:27:58]
It gets kind of broken down into all those
[00:28:00]
places, but we get paid
a percentage of that.
[00:28:03]
And then as a client now is earning
[00:28:05]
dividends and interest
and growing their their policy.
[00:28:08]
We’re managing their policy with them.
We’re growing at.
[00:28:10]
We’re not charged a recurring one or two
percent fees every single year,
[00:28:13]
we get paid a first year and then after
that we still manage it the same way how
[00:28:18]
we started the policy,
but it keeps growing.
[00:28:20]
Now, this means that the client doesn’t
[00:28:21]
have to consider us as an expense
when we’re working with us.
[00:28:25]
We don’t charge hourly rate.
[00:28:26]
We don’t charge service fees.
[00:28:28]
We only get paid from the first year
[00:28:29]
and then eventually to the client ends
up recouping the cost of insurance.
[00:28:33]
So from three seventy five, for example,
and the example of putting it four
[00:28:36]
thousand eventually break even
and then plus you get more interest.
[00:28:40]
And on top of that,
without subtracting out for fees,
[00:28:43]
unlike other investments,
as your portfolio is growing,
[00:28:46]
you have to pay out one or two
percent every single year.
[00:28:48]
Whether it goes up or whether it goes
down, you still have to pay that fee.
[00:28:51]
So it’s kind of a long answer.
[00:28:53]
That’s how we get paid.
Right.
[00:28:55]
So just so I understand this,
[00:28:57]
someone like you is getting a nut
at the first sale first year,
[00:29:01]
but you don’t get residuals
every year as renewals go on.
[00:29:04]
The residuals are like I
don’t even consider them.
[00:29:06]
It’s like
[00:29:08]
a fraction of a percent that just for have
been the client on your book of business.
[00:29:12]
It’s really tiny.
[00:29:14]
It’s very tiny.
[00:29:15]
And if it’s a check for thirty
seven cents or something,
[00:29:19]
something like that.
Yeah, I always just say, you know,
[00:29:22]
initial commissions because the residuals
on the back end are so tiny.
[00:29:26]
OK, all right.
[00:29:27]
What do you think that is?
[00:29:29]
Because the insurance company
is collecting a lot of it.
[00:29:32]
So with life insurance,
this is how usually is the insurance
[00:29:35]
company is giving out the commissions
mostly in the first year because most
[00:29:38]
people don’t die in the first year of life
insurance or pay a ninety nine point
[00:29:44]
probably ninety nine point nine
percent of insurance policies.
[00:29:47]
You know, I don’t know what the numbers
[00:29:48]
are, but it’s for sure not
in the first year, you know.
[00:29:50]
Ninety nine percent of term life insurance
[00:29:53]
policies don’t even make
it to a death claim.
[00:29:55]
You know, if 100 people buy a term life
[00:29:57]
insurance policy, ninety nine
of them will outlive that policy.
[00:30:00]
That’s one of the main
reasons I bought it.
[00:30:02]
Just because I figured
this way, I don’t die
[00:30:05]
at least that over the next
30 years I’m safe.
[00:30:09]
Yeah.
[00:30:10]
So that’s typically why now on what other
types of insurance, like auto insurance,
[00:30:14]
home business, those brokers and agents
get paid every single year like 10 percent
[00:30:18]
or 12 percent every single year
as long as you’re with that broker,
[00:30:22]
because it’s a smaller amount,
but it’s every single year.
[00:30:25]
And there’s also marketing
purposes for that.
[00:30:27]
So that way you can help
retain that customer.
[00:30:29]
Was life insurance, though,
once a client typically enrolls,
[00:30:32]
they’re pretty much staying
in a policy for 30 years with you.
[00:30:35]
They can’t really change that company.
[00:30:37]
So that’s how that’s why the insurance
[00:30:39]
company gives you a large lump sum
in the initial year,
[00:30:41]
as opposed to 10 percent every
year after that at that point.
[00:30:45]
Gotcha.
OK, very cool.
[00:30:47]
Do you have employees?
[00:30:49]
Yeah, I have two assistants.
[00:30:50]
They help me with marketing and they help
[00:30:53]
me with getting on the podcast and pretty
much communicating with clients
[00:30:56]
and podcast host and doing a lot
of email marketing and things like that.
[00:31:01]
Gotcha.
So are they the subcontractors or
[00:31:04]
the employees like you just hire them for
project stuff or they’re they’re hourly.
[00:31:09]
I pay them hourly rate.
And they also had a couple of contractors.
[00:31:11]
I have a concentrator.
[00:31:14]
I have like a digital marketing company
[00:31:15]
that I pay out to,
like on retainer and they help
[00:31:18]
with my website and digital
marketing and things like that.
[00:31:20]
Sure.
And yeah.
[00:31:21]
And hopefully my goal is to kind of grow
[00:31:23]
the company to the point where I have
agents within my agency that are actually
[00:31:27]
selling as I’m doing all the selling
right now and the prospecting.
[00:31:31]
But I but I would plan on kind of stepping
back and having agents who can actually
[00:31:36]
close the business and I
just support them that way.
[00:31:39]
Sure.
Very cool.
[00:31:40]
So one thing I always like to ask business
[00:31:42]
owners that have employees is can
you tell me about your first hire?
[00:31:46]
When did you decide to hire them and what
did you decide they were going to do?
[00:31:49]
And just tell me a story about
if it was easy or tough.
[00:31:54]
Yes, so pretty much I, yeah.
[00:31:57]
Good question.
So pretty much what I did was I made
[00:31:59]
a list of all the things I needed to do
and I and then after that,
[00:32:03]
I kind of figured out or thought of a way
that I could kind of subtract off my list,
[00:32:08]
like shorten my list and focus my list
on more of things that have a bigger
[00:32:14]
impact on my business, like,
for example, being on podcast.
[00:32:16]
I can only do that myself for sure.
[00:32:19]
And then also closing deals with clients.
[00:32:20]
For now, I can only do
that everything else.
[00:32:23]
I can kind of outsource that out.
[00:32:25]
And I started by list.
[00:32:26]
And then another thing to I did was I
[00:32:28]
didn’t just bring somebody on and then
just take everything that I’m doing
[00:32:31]
and put it put on their
plate because it’s too much.
[00:32:34]
And they don’t they don’t see
the same vision that I see.
[00:32:37]
So I kind of have
to translate that vision.
[00:32:38]
I have to kind of show them what what I’m
seeing by continuously training them
[00:32:41]
and then by giving them a small tasks
first, because I want them to, like,
[00:32:45]
conquer those tasks and then, like,
eat it up and then come back for more.
[00:32:49]
And then eventually this is how I think
companies have like really good employees.
[00:32:53]
I could pretty much duplicate the owners
[00:32:55]
because they kind of just had like small
bits and then they got really good at it
[00:32:59]
through practice and through
coaching and mentoring.
[00:33:01]
And then they have the ability now
[00:33:03]
to almost like duplicate the owner
without the owner even being there.
[00:33:06]
And that’s, of course,
that’s the best business to be in is where
[00:33:09]
you don’t have to necessarily be in your
[00:33:11]
job or in your company
and your business can keep moving.
[00:33:14]
That’s think the ultimate
goal of entrepreneurship.
[00:33:18]
If it’s not, it should be very,very true.
[00:33:21]
Very true.
I want to ask you a little bit about
[00:33:25]
how Covid has affected your business,
because I imagine before you’re able
[00:33:29]
to get in front of people, say, hey,
shake hands, kiss babies, whatever.
[00:33:33]
And now you’re like
email or video or whatever.
[00:33:38]
Yeah, good, yeah, good question.
[00:33:39]
So I essentially got into this business
[00:33:41]
because it was it’s
a very remote business.
[00:33:43]
You can entirely do this
over the phone and online.
[00:33:46]
So even before Covid,
[00:33:47]
I still had like appointments
over Zoom and over the phone.
[00:33:50]
And a lot of my clients
are not even in Chicago.
[00:33:53]
They’re all over the country,
you know, in different states.
[00:33:55]
Very cool.
Yeah.
[00:33:56]
So so even before Kobie, that’s how I
kind of the business was structured.
[00:33:59]
But there are some things that are
affected, like, for example,
[00:34:03]
when covid first hit,
a lot of insurance companies up their like
[00:34:07]
requirements, like medical requirements,
because it is a pandemic and a virus.
[00:34:11]
Sure.
Insurance companies had their antennas up
[00:34:13]
when it came to this
and then they kind of were denying a lot
[00:34:16]
of cases or postponing a lot
of cases for at least a year.
[00:34:20]
Yeah, that affected our business slightly.
All right.
[00:34:23]
And then after that, once they got more,
[00:34:25]
I guess once they got more medical
information, more medical data from third
[00:34:29]
party researchers and from doctors,
then they loosened up their underwriting
[00:34:33]
because if they became more
familiar with the virus.
[00:34:36]
OK.
[00:34:37]
And then also, as far as networking,
[00:34:39]
my goal was to keep going
to like networking events.
[00:34:41]
But that’s obviously changed
this any networking events nowadays.
[00:34:46]
And that’s why I kind of replaced it
[00:34:47]
with podcasting to go out and meet
people and talk to people virtually.
[00:34:51]
All right, nice.
[00:34:53]
So did you guys ever have an office or
were you all just working remotely?
[00:34:57]
We were always working remotely, actually.
[00:34:59]
And I that’s that was one of the things
that attracted me to this job to begin
[00:35:02]
with, are this industry is that even
before, like even before technology,
[00:35:08]
insurance agents were always
like virtual financial advisors.
[00:35:11]
They just needed a phone
and their computer.
[00:35:14]
It was always a kind of a remote position.
[00:35:15]
There are people that have
offices that clients can go to.
[00:35:18]
I’ve considered that.
[00:35:19]
I’ve thought about having it like
a storefront office or in the future
[00:35:24]
or even maybe an office building where
[00:35:26]
clients or employees can go to and we
can still do everything remote.
[00:35:29]
But it’d be more for employees.
[00:35:30]
And I might and I might
consider that I might do that.
[00:35:33]
The problem is in Chicago,
[00:35:34]
rent is really expensive for offices,
so maybe that’ll change.
[00:35:41]
It’s tough to say,
[00:35:42]
but covid changing a lot of things and
office space is definitely one of them.
[00:35:46]
Yeah, a lot of places downtown are
converting from office buildings
[00:35:50]
to apartment buildings and condos because
really this empty room now and they might
[00:35:54]
as well change that expensive real estate
from offices to residential places.
[00:35:59]
It’s interesting because I look
[00:36:00]
at my business, the call answering
service of Calls On Call.
[00:36:05]
And we’re paying for an empty office,
[00:36:07]
essentially,
and I don’t see us coming back.
[00:36:11]
Yeah, it’s just it’s been working
[00:36:14]
despite me thinking that it
would never work remotely.
[00:36:18]
The crew that I have a salad.
[00:36:19]
So I’m like, we don’t need the space.
[00:36:22]
And I’m I’m certain that if I think
that way, that there are
[00:36:25]
businesses on a much larger scale
that are thinking the same thing.
[00:36:29]
Yeah.
[00:36:30]
And my in my building where I live,
I’m always talking to people
[00:36:32]
in the elevator and they’re like, oh yeah,
I’m not going back to the office anymore
[00:36:35]
with we’re permanently
working from home now.
[00:36:37]
You know, a lot of companies are doing
[00:36:38]
that because think about it,
they don’t have to pay rent anymore.
[00:36:40]
Even if even if they were allowed to go
[00:36:42]
back to the office,
they don’t want to pay their rent.
[00:36:45]
They don’t have to pay Internet there.
[00:36:46]
They don’t have to pay for insurance
[00:36:47]
that protects the employees
while they’re there.
[00:36:50]
They could just save all this money
by having people work from home.
[00:36:52]
So I guess it doesn’t make the only
downside is that I could think about
[00:36:55]
working from home is just kind
of the vibe of working with other people.
[00:36:58]
That’s the only downside.
You kind of lose that.
[00:37:00]
That’s a big one.
Yes, definitely a big one.
[00:37:03]
Yeah, that’s I guess that was the main
concern that I had was just there was.
[00:37:09]
The camaraderie,
[00:37:10]
the culture of the business, I didn’t
know that we could survive that remotely
[00:37:16]
with instant messaging and generally
speaking, a somewhat younger
[00:37:21]
workforce younger than me.
[00:37:24]
For the most part,
[00:37:27]
they thrive in that in that world.
[00:37:28]
I would have a hard time with it
[00:37:31]
because I just need to see people,
[00:37:32]
I guess, and not not on a two
dimensional zoom level.
[00:37:35]
I mean, like.
Yeah, yeah.
[00:37:37]
Dimensional shake hands
high five, whatever.
[00:37:40]
Level.
I just need that energy from people.
[00:37:43]
Yeah, you’re right,
and I think more things get done when
[00:37:46]
you’re actually in front
of people talking to them.
[00:37:48]
More things get done.
[00:37:49]
Especially from a sales
and marketing perspective.
[00:37:51]
You know, you’re more
likely to close more deals.
[00:37:53]
You’re more likely to get referrals when
you’re touching people and shaking their
[00:37:57]
hands, you know, as opposed
to everything, virtually.
[00:37:59]
Not that it’s impossible,
of course, virtually.
[00:38:01]
We just I think, look, one step
a little bit better to do things right.
[00:38:06]
Yeah.
I just I have this theory and I don’t have
[00:38:08]
any math to back it up, but I’m like,
OK, you don’t pay rent.
[00:38:11]
That’s 20 percent of your
revenue or whatever
[00:38:14]
that means, essentially,
[00:38:15]
that your workforce can either be 20
percent lazier than they are
[00:38:19]
or and it’s break even
or they can be 10 percent lazier.
[00:38:23]
And then you come out ahead 10 percent
rough back of the napkin math kind
[00:38:27]
of thing, because I’m under the impression
I don’t know this for sure.
[00:38:31]
I don’t have any data to back this up.
[00:38:33]
No, nothing
[00:38:36]
empirical anyways.
[00:38:37]
I don’t even know how
you measure it as far as
[00:38:40]
quality or quantity or volume of work
that is done for give an hour of working
[00:38:45]
from home versus working
in an office like this.
[00:38:48]
There’s water coolers and coffee makers
[00:38:50]
and offices anyway,
so they’re not exactly working.
[00:38:52]
One hundred percent.
[00:38:54]
That’s a percentage that
they’re working at home.
[00:38:56]
Maybe, maybe it’s a higher
percentage for some people.
[00:38:58]
Maybe it’s lower.
[00:38:59]
But I feel like there’s
I would guess that it’s a little bit less
[00:39:04]
than at work because you don’t have
someone breathing over your neck.
[00:39:06]
You’re saying, hey, Rodney,
get back to work, you slacker.
[00:39:10]
Yeah, that plus I imagine if you have
[00:39:13]
to commute to work, you have
to drive like thirty minutes.
[00:39:16]
Oh,
you have to get up in the morning
[00:39:18]
and the second you wake up you’re
thinking about not being late to work.
[00:39:21]
Right.
That’s your job.
[00:39:22]
Your first thought.
Are you getting ready.
[00:39:24]
You take a shower, you get ready, you get,
you get your car,
[00:39:27]
you’re driving the highway,
you get to work by time, you get to work.
[00:39:30]
You’ve committed so much
of your life already.
[00:39:33]
Are there done that day for work
and you’re probably going to produce much
[00:39:36]
higher results because
you’re not going to do anything else.
[00:39:39]
You’re not going to drive
to work and then not at work.
[00:39:42]
You’re very committed.
You already put in the commitment.
[00:39:44]
Yeah, definitely zone.
Yeah.
[00:39:46]
Yeah.
Interesting.
[00:39:47]
I never thought about that.
[00:39:48]
How you spending the time before you get
[00:39:50]
to work preparing yourself
to actually be at work.
[00:39:54]
I probably explains why some people just
[00:39:56]
get to work and then they
start searching for it.
[00:39:57]
They’re going to eat for lunch.
[00:40:00]
Yeah, because they’re probably
their primary thought.
[00:40:02]
Waking up was just work that’s just now
hearing the boss saying why are you late
[00:40:06]
you know, just avoiding that for them.
Interesting
[00:40:09]
yeah.
Different world.
[00:40:11]
Different world.
Yeah.
[00:40:12]
So you why did you just out of curiosity,
what made you decide to go off on your own
[00:40:17]
versus just becoming
an employee of someone else?
[00:40:20]
Or you could be making commission and.
[00:40:23]
They sales, essentially without
the risk are presumably less risk.
[00:40:27]
Yeah, definitely it would be more risk.
[00:40:30]
There’s a couple of downsides.
[00:40:31]
So as mentioned already,
with the financial services world in those
[00:40:33]
two avenues, we’re currently
only our commission.
[00:40:36]
Only if I’m an employee on one of those
[00:40:39]
sites, I can I have to stay
on that side, for example.
[00:40:42]
So, for example,
[00:40:42]
if I’m a fee only advisor,
number one, I could only be fee only.
[00:40:46]
And then number two,
[00:40:48]
let’s say, for example, I’m representing,
you know, ABC Mutual Fund.
[00:40:51]
That’s what I’m here for.
I can only represent ABC Mutual Fund.
[00:40:54]
I have to have their business cards.
[00:40:55]
I have to have that email address.
[00:40:57]
I can’t do anything else
but ABC Mutual Fund.
[00:41:00]
I’m a captive agent or
a captive advisers to them.
[00:41:03]
That means if a client comes to me, says,
hey, I want to get into real estate
[00:41:06]
investing, either have to turn them
down or convince them otherwise.
[00:41:11]
You know, real estate investing is
too risky to insurance instead.
[00:41:14]
And that’s how that’s one problem
with the industry is the captive part
[00:41:17]
of it is that it’s too sales-y in the sense
that you kind of have to pull people away
[00:41:21]
from what they’re doing and push them more
to the product that you’re going to sell.
[00:41:25]
And now let’s say I was independent
only or I was on the commission side.
[00:41:29]
I was working for one company as
[00:41:31]
an independent whole life
insurance agent, for example.
[00:41:34]
Same kind of idea I could only
sell for that one company.
[00:41:37]
I can’t sell for four different companies.
[00:41:39]
So I kind of wanted to put the agency
in a position where it can pivot
[00:41:43]
into different areas and do
different services if needed.
[00:41:46]
So we’re our primary niche is the bank
on yourself strategy and using whole life
[00:41:49]
insurance for small business
owners and real investors.
[00:41:52]
But if needed to if we if I, for example,
[00:41:55]
wanted to partner up with a mortgage
lender and then get fees from that,
[00:41:59]
I could do that if I wanted to partner
with a real estate brokerage company
[00:42:03]
and then kind of partner with business
there, we could do that, too.
[00:42:06]
We can kind of pivot and move around.
[00:42:07]
That’s one of the main reasons why I want
to be independent and self-employed.
[00:42:11]
And that also, of course,
[00:42:13]
with uncapped earnings, you know,
if I were an employee somewhere,
[00:42:15]
W2 employee, they’re going to they’re
going to, I think, structure my pay.
[00:42:20]
So that way it’s kind of a little bit
more than starting a business pay.
[00:42:24]
But it’s going to have caps
even if they don’t say it
[00:42:28]
has caps, it’s like, for example,
they’ll say we don’t cap your earnings.
[00:42:31]
You’re still going to be capped
in the sense of logistics and time
[00:42:34]
and what you what you could do during your
workday and how many people you could see.
[00:42:39]
So you’re going to be stuck in this
[00:42:40]
in this point of like
you’re you’re you’re making enough money
[00:42:44]
to support your family,
pay all your bills,
[00:42:47]
have a little bit extra for vacations
and for future savings.
[00:42:50]
But you’re not going to have enough
[00:42:51]
to the point where you can kind
of retire at the age of 50.
[00:42:54]
If you wanted to,
you’d have to keep working.
[00:42:55]
So I wanted that uncapped earning
potential interestingness you.
[00:42:59]
So you thought this through?
[00:43:02]
Yeah.
[00:43:05]
So tell me from a from a legal standpoint,
[00:43:08]
I’m just curious,
are you considered a financial planner,
[00:43:11]
life insurance salesperson,
fiduciary? Like what do they
[00:43:16]
pigeonhole you as from a
legality standpoint? I guess, yes.
[00:43:20]
So legally, I’m not a fiduciary.
[00:43:22]
I’m not part of a broker dealer.
[00:43:24]
And I’m a financial technical I’m
[00:43:26]
a financial planner and an insurance
agent, kind of both of those combined.
[00:43:30]
And also sometimes I’ll throw in like
[00:43:32]
a financial consultant just to kind of
consult on different financial matters.
[00:43:35]
So it’s kind of those three guys got
a lawyer or an accountant or a fiduciary.
[00:43:40]
All right.
So you tell me about the tests that you
[00:43:42]
had to take in order to be
able to sell these products.
[00:43:46]
So typically, it’s usually
life and health only.
[00:43:48]
I have life, health, property
and casualty insurance licenses for me.
[00:43:52]
And there was for exams for those.
[00:43:54]
And then after that,
when I became a Medicare consultant,
[00:43:57]
I had to do an exam through
that to become Medicare certified.
[00:44:01]
And then when I got into the bank
on yourself organization,
[00:44:04]
they have a week like training
program with the final exam.
[00:44:07]
So I have to go through that.
[00:44:09]
And then I also have like a long term care
certificate, professional certificate
[00:44:13]
to how people manage or
plan for a long term care.
[00:44:17]
So it’s kind of like seven exams so far
that have taken to help position this.
[00:44:21]
And then I’m working on the I’m going
[00:44:24]
to start taking courses for the certified
financial planner, the CFP courses.
[00:44:28]
Those are that’s like the the next level
to my business is the CFP part, OK?
[00:44:33]
And that’s where you get
into the mutual fund stuff or.
[00:44:37]
That’s what I pretty much
[00:44:40]
I’m still going to be
doing what I’m doing now.
[00:44:41]
But I just have I guess the only benefit
[00:44:44]
is just being able to put CFP on my resume
and LinkedIn and business cards.
[00:44:49]
Yeah,
[00:44:50]
it’s just kind of like I’m taking
everything I know and then just
[00:44:53]
on steroids kind of and
more and more thoroughly more advanced
[00:44:57]
and financial analysis
and financial planning.
[00:44:59]
All right.
Were these tests stuff
[00:45:01]
like people just walking off the street
and take home, or do you have to study
[00:45:05]
night and day for fifty years to get
them or they’re not they’re not tough.
[00:45:09]
You don’t have anybody could take them,
[00:45:10]
even if you just kind
of graduate high school.
[00:45:12]
But it does take practice.
[00:45:13]
I’d say the average one that I took
takes about twenty hours of prep.
[00:45:17]
Thirty hours of prep maybe.
I’ve seen people fail,
[00:45:19]
I’ve seen a lot of people fail them
and I’ve seen a lot of people pass them.
[00:45:23]
Who don’t even have college degrees,
so it’s possible, it’s very manageable,
[00:45:27]
but you just have to put in the time,
like some of my colleagues and friends
[00:45:31]
will call me and say, hey, I want to take
the life and health insurance license.
[00:45:34]
What are some things to know?
And I tell them,
[00:45:36]
devote at least 30 full hours to it,
have a set schedule,
[00:45:40]
and then you don’t try to do the entire
pre training in one day or a few hours.
[00:45:46]
Let’s split it up like three or four hours
[00:45:48]
every day for a whole week and then make
it more of a rhythm,
[00:45:51]
because it is if you don’t do that, you
probably will fail. Gotcha, interesting.
[00:45:55]
And then I know we don’t have a ton
[00:45:57]
of time left, but I do want to talk about
the bank on yourself organization.
[00:46:00]
Is it a franchise or how did
you get involved with it?
[00:46:03]
Yes.
[00:46:04]
So it’s pretty much it’s
a concept and it’s a trademark.
[00:46:07]
And it’s also part of something called
[00:46:09]
like an insurance marketing
organization where it’s like an upline.
[00:46:12]
So, for example, let’s say that Lafayette
Insurance Company is one of our carriers.
[00:46:17]
Right.
When I go through
[00:46:18]
Lafayette Insurance Company,
I go through an applied marketing channel
[00:46:22]
and then that marketing channel
gets a piece of my commission.
[00:46:25]
In exchange, they provide me with support
and training and other things like that.
[00:46:29]
So the bank or some organization is kind
[00:46:31]
of like an HMO or insurance
market organization.
[00:46:33]
And it’s also a trademark on a concept.
[00:46:35]
So pretty much they have the book,
they have the training material.
[00:46:38]
I have a mentor.
[00:46:39]
They train me and then the business
I write goes through them.
[00:46:43]
Gotcha.
[00:46:44]
OK, so you didn’t have to call these
insurance companies individually and say,
[00:46:47]
hey, trust me, I’m super
awesome at what I do.
[00:46:50]
Let me sell your product.
Exactly.
[00:46:53]
Bank on yourself organization.
[00:46:55]
Who essentially vetted you.
Yeah.
[00:46:57]
Gotcha.
OK, yeah.
[00:46:58]
I wondered how you did that.
Yeah.
[00:47:01]
Yes.
Because you call it an insurance or I
[00:47:03]
would call up an insurance company
and they’d say, who are you?
[00:47:07]
Sometimes the insurance companies
[00:47:08]
who actually call you and ask
you to sell their product.
[00:47:11]
So yeah, sometimes it depends.
[00:47:12]
Some insurance companies don’t
accept people just off the street.
[00:47:15]
They needed to come from an upline.
[00:47:17]
So that way they have the trust.
[00:47:19]
They did the the vetting.
[00:47:21]
And then sometimes insurance
companies like don’t really care.
[00:47:24]
This is more about
the financial planning side.
[00:47:26]
This is more of like you want to sell,
for example, dental products,
[00:47:29]
dental insurance products
or like vision insurance.
[00:47:32]
You can call those companies and just sell
[00:47:34]
through them because they’re kind
of they’re looking for business.
[00:47:36]
Right.
[00:47:36]
And every broker is essentially
a money maker for them.
[00:47:39]
Gotcher But other companies that are
[00:47:41]
dealing with more of people’s lives
and cash flow and cash savings accounts,
[00:47:46]
they want people to come
through like a vetted network.
[00:47:49]
Gotcha.
That makes sense.
[00:47:51]
Awesome.
So sorry.
[00:47:52]
I got a couple more questions
for you before we wrap up here,
[00:47:56]
can you just give the Cliffs Notes version
[00:47:58]
of term versus whole life
and anything in between there?
[00:48:02]
Yeah.
[00:48:03]
So pretty much term is
a set period of time.
[00:48:05]
It’s either ten years, 20 years, 30 years.
[00:48:07]
It’s life insurance only.
[00:48:08]
There’s no cash value in it.
[00:48:10]
So for example, somebody to get a life
[00:48:11]
insurance policy for twenty years,
pay one hundred bucks a month if and then
[00:48:15]
if they pass away the insurance company
will pay out a million dollars.
[00:48:18]
And if they don’t,
[00:48:19]
if they have twenty years goes by,
the insurance companies are off the hook.
[00:48:22]
You don’t have to pay any more money,
but you don’t have any.
[00:48:24]
There’s no equity, no cash value
[00:48:26]
and you can renew it for another
twenty years if you wanted to.
[00:48:29]
Whole life.
It’s for your whole life.
[00:48:30]
Once you start the policy,
it’s a permanent form of life insurance.
[00:48:33]
There’s no underwriting again,
there’s no end date.
[00:48:35]
It only ends when you pass away.
[00:48:37]
And then the other difference is it
is it has equity in it or cash value.
[00:48:41]
It’s like buying a house.
[00:48:42]
You buy the house, you have
the market value and you have equity.
[00:48:45]
Whereas term is more like renting
[00:48:47]
and at a set period of time,
and it’s only life insurance.
[00:48:49]
Those are the differences
between terminal life.
[00:48:51]
Sure.
And then pros cons.
[00:48:55]
Yeah.
Yeah.
[00:48:56]
So term is it’s since it’s only life
insurance and as I mentioned,
[00:49:00]
ninety nine percent of cases don’t
even make it to a death benefit.
[00:49:02]
It’s fairly cheap.
You know, somebody who’s 40 years old can
[00:49:05]
pay 100 bucks a month for a million
dollars in life insurance.
[00:49:08]
Whole life insurance is going to cost more
[00:49:10]
because there’s more risk
on the insurance company side.
[00:49:12]
It’s for your whole life.
[00:49:13]
They have to they have to keep you
on their books for your whole life.
[00:49:16]
They really made that commitment.
[00:49:18]
So that means if you get into the policy,
you’re healthier.
[00:49:20]
Then 10 years later,
[00:49:21]
you’re diagnosed with cancer
that insurance company can’t reject.
[00:49:24]
You know, they have to keep you.
[00:49:25]
They can rerate you know, you’ve already
locked in the rates at at a lower rate.
[00:49:29]
So they have to keep and they have
to add in that risk when evaluating you.
[00:49:33]
And then, of course,
there’s a cash value component to the fact
[00:49:35]
that you have the ability to borrow
against your money and use it
[00:49:39]
for retirement or use it
for whatever you want.
[00:49:41]
The insurance company also has to has
[00:49:43]
to collateralize
the loan parts of that policy using you,
[00:49:46]
which costs money, of course, typically
what to do with whole life insurance.
[00:49:49]
The fees are high as
in the first two years.
[00:49:52]
And then after that, as mentioned,
[00:49:53]
there’s a break even point in the end
up getting your money back.
[00:49:55]
So I kind of a lot of clients would
actually say
[00:49:58]
they would prefer a whole life because
you would recoup the cost of insurance.
[00:50:01]
Eventually you recoup the cost
[00:50:03]
of insurance, whereas with term you would
never recoup it because either you would
[00:50:07]
have the policy right now or you would
pass away and you get the life insurance.
[00:50:10]
All right.
[00:50:11]
But now sometimes it’s not
it’s it could do both.
[00:50:13]
A lot of times we do both with the term
[00:50:15]
and we do hope for the cash savings
part and the self making part.
[00:50:19]
And then we do term only if something
[00:50:21]
happens to them in a 30 year time period,
although debts are paid off.
[00:50:26]
Gotcha.
Interesting,
[00:50:28]
clever, cool theory,
how can people find you?
[00:50:31]
Yeah, so they can go
to our company website.
[00:50:34]
It’s FinAssetProtection.com,
FinAssetProtection.com.
[00:50:39]
There’s a link you can schedule a free
appointment for a conversation.
[00:50:42]
There’s also a link to my LinkedIn if you
[00:50:44]
want to connect there and you
get to know me first.
[00:50:47]
Also very cool.
Do you have any questions for me, I guess,
[00:50:50]
before you wrap this up or anything
else that I should have asked you?
[00:50:53]
No, I really appreciate
the questions you asked.
[00:50:55]
And I really appreciate
being on your show, James.
[00:50:58]
Yeah, this has been super cool.
[00:50:59]
This has been insightful.
[00:51:02]
I guess just I want to ask one more
question here, just for the listeners.
[00:51:06]
We’ve got a pretty wide ranging audience,
entrepreneurs that are just starting out
[00:51:11]
and entrepreneurs that have
been entrepreneurs for.
[00:51:14]
Well, decades, really.
[00:51:16]
So is there a.
[00:51:19]
I don’t know how to ask this without
[00:51:21]
sounding rude to the to the person,
let’s just say, is there a.
[00:51:26]
A personal value or
[00:51:29]
asset value and not necessarily the person
that mean something like that,
[00:51:33]
but an asset value where it makes sense
to look at something like this,
[00:51:37]
a product like this versus term
like if they’re making more than
[00:51:42]
X dollar amount got you here
with their business.
[00:51:45]
I mean, like, if someone’s like, hey,
I’m bringing in 50 bucks a year
[00:51:48]
from a business, I think whole
life is the right policy.
[00:51:51]
Probably going to be like maybe not yet.
[00:51:54]
Yeah, that’s a that’s a good question.
I get it.
[00:51:55]
Yeah.
[00:51:56]
So pretty much like the financial
brackets people are in and yeah.
[00:52:01]
There’s got be a point I guess.
[00:52:03]
I imagine and correct me if I’m wrong,
[00:52:04]
but there’s a point or there’s a rough
gray ish area where once you hit
[00:52:09]
that number, then it starts making
sense to look at something like this.
[00:52:13]
Awesome question.
Yeah.
[00:52:14]
So definitely so pretty much as I
[00:52:16]
mentioned, we can do policies that are
like three hundred and five hundred
[00:52:19]
dollars a month and then we can do
policies all the way up to a million
[00:52:22]
dollars and it comes down to our
a year even or our single premium.
[00:52:27]
There’s no caps to how much whole life
insurance you can get from an underwriting
[00:52:31]
perspective or from
from a tax perspective.
[00:52:33]
There’s no there’s no limits on it.
[00:52:35]
Now, let’s say, for example,
[00:52:37]
somebody is 30 years older listening
to this or, you know, should I do this?
[00:52:41]
Is this a good idea?
[00:52:43]
My question to you would be, is,
do you have like three hundred or five hundred
[00:52:47]
dollars a month that you can save extra
that just sitting in a boring business,
[00:52:50]
a boring checking account. Instead, could
you have that sitting a whole life policy,
[00:52:55]
earning you more interest while still
giving you liquidity to use for other
[00:52:58]
investments that you want?
Now, if you’re completely, you know,
[00:53:01]
your W2 employee and every check you
get completely goes to bills for now.
[00:53:05]
I wouldn’t recommend this because it does
[00:53:07]
take a commitment
to commit to three hundred to five hundred
[00:53:10]
dollars a month to this
every single month.
[00:53:12]
So if you’re if you’re in that situation
[00:53:13]
like paycheck to paycheck,
I wouldn’t do that right now.
[00:53:16]
But I would definitely if you have,
you know, three hundred five hundred extra
[00:53:19]
after paying all your expenses,
all your bills, why not have it sitting
[00:53:22]
somewhere that will earn you
a compound interest also.
[00:53:24]
And all the really thing I like about this
is that it almost it almost forces you
[00:53:28]
to save your money, because if you commit
to 500 bucks a month for 30 years,
[00:53:33]
you ought to have this bill almost every
month that you’re paying into,
[00:53:37]
as you’re paying into it,
it’s building up cash somewhere.
[00:53:40]
And then when you want to access
that cash, you can at any time you could
[00:53:43]
borrow up to 90 percent of the cash
value you borrow from that.
[00:53:47]
You use it for whatever you want.
You pay it back into the policy.
[00:53:49]
So now what’s happening is you’re creating
obstacles around your money that you’re
[00:53:54]
in control of, of course,
but you have these obstacles around your
[00:53:56]
money and allows you to save
more money over time.
[00:54:00]
Because think about how many people do you
know, take money from the checking
[00:54:03]
account, put in their savings one month
later, go to a savings,
[00:54:06]
take it from the savings,
put it back into their checking,
[00:54:08]
you know, and then they wonder
why they can’t save money.
[00:54:10]
Now, the same way you would
before I started all this.
[00:54:12]
I always wonder why can’t I see my money?
[00:54:14]
And it’s because of the liquidity
part of your money.
[00:54:16]
It’s too liquid.
If you can access your money over your
[00:54:18]
phone, chances are you
can be able to save it.
[00:54:21]
Oh, I love that.
I love that.
[00:54:23]
You make it too easy.
Yeah, exactly.
[00:54:25]
So add some boundaries.
[00:54:26]
Some barriers are on you and your money.
[00:54:28]
Let’s not I’m not talking about locking
up your money for thirty years.
[00:54:31]
I’m talking about locking it up.
And when you want to access it,
[00:54:33]
you have to wait three to five business
days and it makes you really think about
[00:54:36]
using your money you’re more
likely to save for the future.
[00:54:39]
I love that.
That is impressive.
[00:54:42]
That alone was worth it for
[00:54:44]
the people listening to this right there,
because you’re totally right, man.
[00:54:48]
People have.
[00:54:51]
Essentially, too much,
easy access to money,
[00:54:53]
I suppose you could argue the whole
credit card thing for a lot of people.
[00:54:56]
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
[00:54:57]
It’s too easy to spend
or to access their money.
[00:55:01]
And so, therefore,
even though it was saved maybe a month or
[00:55:04]
two before it’s gone this month,
that’s awesome.
[00:55:08]
Incredible advice.
Thank you.
[00:55:10]
Well, sir, thanks for being on the show.
This is super cool.
[00:55:13]
Thank you, James.
Thank you for having me on.
[00:55:15]
This has been
Authentic Business Adventures the business
[00:55:17]
program that brings you the struggle
stories and triumphant successes
[00:55:20]
of business owners across the land,
underwritten by the Bank of Sun Prairie.
[00:55:24]
If you’re listening to this on the Web,
[00:55:25]
please give us the thumbs up, subscribe,
share, comment, just spread it to the world.
[00:55:30]
That’s what we need you for.
[00:55:32]
My name is James Kademan
and Authentic Business Adventures is
[00:55:34]
brought to you by Calls On Call offering
call answering services for businesses
[00:55:39]
across the country, on the web
at CallsOnCall.com.
[00:55:42]
As well as Draw In Customers Business
Coaching offering business coaching
[00:55:46]
services for entrepreneurs looking
for growth, on the web at DrawInCustomers.com.
[00:55:51]
And of course,
The BOLD Business Book, a book
[00:55:53]
for the entrepreneur in all of us
available wherever fine books are sold.
[00:55:57]
We’d like to thank you our wonderful
listeners as well as our guest.
[00:56:00]
Sarry Ibrahim a financial professional,
a member of the Bank On Yourself
[00:56:05]
Organization and owner
of Financial Asset Protection.
[00:56:08]
Sarry, can you tell us your
website one more time?
[00:56:10]
Yes.
[00:56:11]
FinAssetProtection.com
finassetprotection.com
[00:56:17]
Asset is plural or singular.
[00:56:19]
Singular, singular.
Awesome.
[00:56:21]
Past episodes can be found morning,
[00:56:22]
noon and night at the podcast link
found at DrawInCustomers.com.
[00:56:26]
Thank you for listening.
We’ll see you next week.
[00:56:28]
I want you to stay awesome.
[00:56:29]
And if you do nothing else, you know what to do.
[00:56:32]
Enjoy your business.
