Noelle Stary – Mainstreet Moxie, 20 Lemons, The Co-Working Space

As entrepreneurs, we have a lot going on.  I have not met an entrepreneur that doesn’t have dozens of new ideas floating around their head.
The interesting thing with my guest, Noelle Stary, is that she has implemented a lot of those ideas.  She wrote and published a book, Mainstreet Moxie, started a co-working space and created a business development company, 20Lemons.  Talking to Noelle is fascinating and makes you wonder what you did with your day.
In a good way.
Listen as Noelle tells us her business story and how she has shifted gears, hit multiple gears and once and just plain accomplished a lot.  You will be impressed.

Want to hear more?  Hit it:   [themo_button text=”More Business Podcast Episodes” url=”” type=”standard”]

Authentic Business Adventures Podcast


All right, you have found
Authentic Business Adventures,

the business program that brings you
the struggles,

stories and triumphant successes
of business owners across the land coming

to you from a Calls On Call studios
underwritten by Bank of Sun Prairie.

My name is James Kademan, entrepreneur,
author, speaker, speaker,

and helpful coach to small business
owners across the country.

Sometimes I can’t talk in the microphone.

What are you going to do? Today

we are welcoming/preparing to learn

from Noelle Stary author and founder
of 20 Lemons and the Coworking Space.

Noelle, how are you doing today?
I’m doing great.

Thanks so much for having me.

Thanks for being on the show here.

I’m excited because you are an author,
which is super cool,

but you also actually started businesses,
which means that you’re essentially giving

business advice and you have
experienced owning a business.

Yes. I see

and meet a lot of people that are going
to coach people in business and either

don’t or have never or both
actually started a business.

So this is cool to actually meet
someone that has experience.

Boots on the ground kind of thing.

Yeah, I think I think a lot
about business is getting dirty.


And, you know,

like when I think about like business
and thinking about having a little bit

of grit, I kind of, you know,
I always tell my clients for marketing.

I always tell them, hey, I like to,
like, roll my sleeves up and get dirty.

And like, you know, I’m not just going
to deliver brochures to your space.

I want to actually, like know
like who are they going to.

Did you tell them what
they’re going to do with it?

What are you going
to say to the customers?

And I try to really pull
it all the way through.

Mm hmm.

Because I think you’ve got to get

dirty with your business and get to know

all the bits and pieces that you can
really make it work. Oh, you have to.

Yeah, yeah.

There’s so much going on that

I guess the coaches that you hear about or
see them pushing their wares kind

of thing, I feel like it’s almost
a snake oil thing.

Like they’re they’re selling
hope based on pushing fear.

Kind of thing.

It’s not.
And people that actually have a business

we can say like, hey man, it’s cool,
you’re going to get a little messy.

Yeah, well, that’s part
of the fun to a point.

So how long ago did you start

20 Lemons?

So my marketing company
started about 11 years ago.

Oh wow nice.

So I started my first business
during the Great Recession.

This time to start one.


Best time to start one.
I was working for a

a design agency at the time and I
just kind of was of the opinion that.

You know, I kind of saw the writing

on the wall like stuff is kind of coming
to a halt all over the country and someone

said you should go and look
to work for big business.

And I thought to myself,
are you watching the news?

And I just really felt like.

The piece that I love the most about small
business or micro business is you don’t

need success all over the world, you
just need success in your own community.

And when you’re talking about micro

successes, they don’t need
massive amounts of audience.

And so I felt like I rather
just try to bet on myself.

And that’s when I decided to start
my marketing company. Nice.

So were you working for a graphic design
company before or what kind of?

So, yep.
So I was working for a

it was they did graphics and they did

stuff like tons of branding work,
tons of website design, apparel,

tons of stuff.
They worked.

it was out of

the company was called Titonic and it
was a company up in Newark, New Jersey.

So they did a lot of work during the time

that Cory Booker was
actually mayor up there.

Oh, funny.
Kind of really interesting times.

Yeah, interesting.

So you what was the triggering moment
for you deciding to leave their.

So around that time, I you know,
I remember it kind of being like

September, October, you know,
Obama was coming into office around

that time and I just like every day
the news would come out and it would be

like this market tumbled or these
guys are looking for a bailout.

And I just kind of really felt like.

I heard this really great quote someone

had talked about and they said,
you know, you’ve got two choices in life.

You can either be a part of someone else’s
plan or someone can be a part of yours.

Sure, he’s like, there’s only two options.

And I just thought to myself, I’d rather
try to, like, make my own path

and get people to support what I was
trying to do than just

try to hitch on to someone else
and and hope for the best at the time.

Was the business you were
working for doing OK?

They were doing OK.

They were doing OK.

They did start to lose business,
which I don’t think was atypical.

I mean, they worked for they
did a lot of work for mauls.

They did work for non-profits.

They did work for Cory Booker.

And all of those places were doing OK.

But like I said, even with them as a small
business, I knew, like in my mind,

having to or I already had worked for a
another small business prior to that.

And I just thought to myself.

I feel like what it really takes to be

good in business is being able to be
agile and make change as fast.

And as I saw what was happening
in the economy, I thought to myself,

if I was the guys that owned this
business, I would start laying people off.

And so at that point,

I kind of knew, you know,
that was my trigger moment.

I think that was my moment was I thought
to myself, I can wait here and see if,

like, the ax is going to, like,
cut down on me.

I could wait to see
what’s going to happen,

but I rather just kind of go on my own.

And when I really started trying to make
some decisions for what I wanted to do.

Nice, nice.

No, it’s a very smart move.

Instead of waiting and seeing,

which is a very common reaction,
let’s just see how this plays out.

Yeah, it’s very common.

It’s interesting because that time
I started my first business in 2006

and 2008, 2009,
when a lot of bigger companies were

pulling their marketing,
that meant that smaller companies like me

could actually afford to have radio
ads and TV ads and stuff like that.

It’s kind of an interesting.

Interesting dynamic, I guess we’re before
just couldn’t it was out of the cards.

Well, and isn’t it funny because, like,
we were just talking two seconds ago,

like micro businesses aren’t as influenced
by what’s going on in the economy.

And so it’s it’s just like

the determination of who do
I want my audience to be?

You know, the the book that I just put out
talks to this point of

who’s your audience?

And and really what it’s talking about is

the audience that I might have
always had before the pandemic.

Nothing has really totally changed.

But because of outside environmental

maybe my audience has changed today.

So like, for example,
I have a catering facility that I do

marketing work with and catering
facilities they sell to corporate rights.

So corporate comes,

they do their annual events, they do their
annual meetings, they do team building.

Well, the person who might have been
making the decision to go there might have

been a I’m just going
to stereotype for a second.

It might have been like an older white
male, you know, maybe says, wait a second,

I might be someone who’s at risk of if I
get covid, I’m going to get really sick.

I was like maybe an older person who’s

making the decision
we’re not going anymore.

And so it has nothing to do with the fact

that the decision maker of a big company
might have always wanted to go there.

That is the audience.

But during, let’s say, coronavirus,

you might have to say, wait a minute,
that’s not my buyer anymore.

Maybe my buyer is the guy who was going

to do an indoor wedding that now
is looking for an outdoor wedding.

And I have to actually change my audience.
Oh, yeah.

Yeah, you do it there.

Yeah, we’re we’re I’m out
of near Madison, Wisconsin.

They couldn’t have a corporate event.

It just it was illegal,

but it was they put out stuff that said
no mass gatherings of more than ten.


I think there’s no mass
gatherings of more than ten.

I figured out when I was 10 outdoors
and 20 indoors or vice versa or something

like that, like we can’t
even gather outside

what happens when we’re at a stoplight?

This is the window that keeps going.

Like we’re we’re all meant

we don’t get the choice.

So Christmas parties and all that kind

of stuff or whatever the annual New Year’s
bash is and all that kind of stuff,

the businesses would have
little celebrations.

Yay, we survived.

Yeah, we’re

probably not getting
a whole lot of catering.

So they’re having to adapt.


And so, you know, I think
over the last several months

or so my businesses have always, you know,
I politely joke my businesses literally

have been on Main Street like Main Street
is where I’ve always had my business.

And Jersey I think is
kind of unique like this.

Like every town has,

like a little Main Street and there’s
a small local mom and pop shops.

And we’re at this just really interesting

time where, like all of these small
businesses were the ones that always gave

to the community,
the local softball teams,

the local this you know,
we’re going into like holiday season.

And it’s like this is really the time

for the communities to go back
and support those local businesses.

Like Shop Local has always been a key

message for any town, but it’s never
meant more than it does today.

Oh, absolutely.

And it’s it’s weird in practice

because I guess there’s kind of opposing
ideals now with the whole coronavirus.

Stay home.
Don’t go anywhere.

Yeah, but you also want to shop local,

which a lot of them have
had to struggle even like.

Oh crap.
That means that we need a website,

we need an e-commerce store, we need
a way to get the product to people.

And most people already
expect free shipping.

Oh yeah.
Stuff like that.

It’s not practical.
Or they actually actually.

So, you know, one of the one of the things

that I’ve seen that I thought has been
kind of ironic kind of to your point, is

if the biggest days of the year right now,
right now, today, right.

Cyber Monday, Cyber Monday,

what do we all do on Cyber Monday
that my dad’s been calling me all day?

He keeps going.

I need this hair trimmer
because it goes up on price.

Tomorrow you can buy a nice Amazon, right.

And and so here, it’s like,
you know, we do Black Friday.

Everyone is doing all
their online shopping.

And again, to your point,

the people that need the sales the most,
I think that I think I was just seeing

the other day on the news,
they were saying annual online sales this

holiday season are supposed
to go up like five percent like.

Online sales are supposed to be up,

but, you know, the people that really need
that buying are the local people and even

one of the easiest things you can do is
just buy gift cards from them and just

say, you know what, we’re going
to buy it from you and do it later.

But the challenge was for Black Friday.

A lot of the small businesses were saying,

wait a minute, not only do we want people
to come in, but they want discounts here.

We’re doing all of this extra stuff
to try to help and stay alive.

And and now they want us to,
like, give more discounts.

And and so I think it’s really been
a challenge like this holiday season

with seeing how the small businesses are
handling, how they actually give pricing

their product.
It’s tough.

It’s tough.
And as a consumer,

just even yesterday,
I went to get some takeout for a wife

and kid,
and it was a restaurant we never went to,

you know, just getting some
Chinese food or whatever.

And you have to figure out what is

the system that they have
for picking up the food.

You’re not hanging out
in the lobby and stuff like this.

So from a bigger business, fast food or
something like that, just drive through.

No big thing.

Other restaurants where it’s sit down,
either sit down outside or just have

closed the middle of the road,
places like that.

I’m just like, I don’t
know how to get food.

I don’t even know how
to be a customer of yours.

So I have to tell you.

So like before we started that,

before we went on air today,
we were talking about my coworking space.

My cover in space is called
the coworking space.


And I know you kind of were like, oh,
everyone knows that a coworking spaces.

And the reality is,
as I started my coworking space in two

thousand nine and when I started
my working space, it was actually called

launch pad creative’s
and launch pad creative’s was supposed

to be so that, you know,
other marketers or designers or writers

can come and work out of this space
and like a collaborative function.

But when people would say,

what is the launch pad creative side is,
I would say, oh, it’s a coworking space.

And then they would go,
what’s a coworking space?

And the dialogue just,

you know, it was like a 20 minute
dialogue to explain what the place was.

And the part that I was always blown away

by was you mention it like
you hit the nail on the head.

Like I say to people,
when I go being a Jersey girl,

I walk into any pizza place in Jersey and,
you know, the routine.

You go in, you go to the counter,

you order pizza, you can sit down,
they’ll bring it over.

You can pay at the end
like it’s no big deal.

It’s the same in every
pizza place in New Jersey.

The problem is,
is like when you get to a coworking space

or if you’re in a new type of work
environment, people are confused, like

where I go, how do I
at what point do I buy?

Are you coming to like are you dropping it
in my trunk or you’re dropping it

on my left side? Am I supposed to open
the window down or do I need a QR code?

And so during, like, coronavirus,
like what I’ve been seeing with a lot

of my clients is we’re trying to put out
communication or even video that kind

of says, you know,
I’m noticing a lot of my restaurants are

coming out and they’re saying
and it’s the owner kind of shooting

a video and he goes, hey,
when you come and see us,

you’re going to notice things
look a little bit different.

You’re going to drive up here.

You’re going to be met by this person.

We’re going to do this.
You’re going to sit down.

There’s going to be QR code,
take a picture of it.

You can pay right there at the table.

And and so I think these little video
snippets have been so impactful because

at the beginning of coronavirus,
I just think that extra influx of emails

was like quadruple like I bet you can
even keep up with what was going on.

And so some of these little video snippets
have been a way of kind of saying,

hey, we’re recalibrating our environment
or we’re recalibrating our culture.

And here’s what you can expect.

And I think to your point as like the end
user, it makes you have a better customer

experience when you know
what’s going to be happening.

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Because my rules are confused.

Customers don’t buy.
I agree.

So I think that’s why pizza delivery

superway up,
because if you want to eat out or you want

to get food delivered, whatever you like,
they’ve had that going on for years.

So it’s no big thing.
It’s easy.

I don’t know.

I don’t want to look like
an idiot going in to get food.

Yeah, it’s just not it’s like when you go

to a hospital to visit someone and you go
to the cafeteria and it’s just this

massive array of tables
and kind of self-serving.

You don’t know.

Look, I just got to get
something for my mom.

I don’t even know how to do it.

Ask me.

Yeah, it’s just a weird.

It’s a weird dynamic, so.

If you make the experience,
the buying experience easy,

make it easy to buy.
People will buy, right?

Yeah, I always love that book.

I think it’s the paradox of choice.

And it talks about

like when you go to a food store,
like a supermarket and you see all

of these different cereal boxes or all
these different types of jellies,

that if you’re overwhelmed by the amount
of options, you have to make a choice.

You know what I’m not going to do?

It becomes too can too challenging like

people like give me two or three
options and I’m good, right?

Small, medium.
Large, right.


It’s interesting.
With so Calls On Call the call answering

service, we had packages that were
named after different ways.

The lines for communication.

It’s like the first one was a string
package because those two cans

and a string and then we had copper fiber,
all this kind of stuff.

And I thought it were being clever,

but people had no idea
there was like a string better than tin or

fiber or that didn’t
like you just don’t get it.

Royds technology is clever,
but the idea is, I guess I’ve learned

they’re supposed to be clear
over clever and simple.

We just have bronze, silver, gold.

It’s just it’s so boring.

But people get it like, oh,
this is where I’m in.


All right.

Tell me about your book.

So you wrote Mainstreet Moxie.

So in a super recent,
super recent super super reason because

Duquan Cauvin in their super recent
so so as I had

so I’ve had my businesses for the last 11

years and there was always this like
one of my clients is a publisher.

And so she and I talk a lot about a book
and I had reiterations of it in my head.


Like, you know, in business,
I call it stirring the pot.

I mean, this stuff like bubble
and then stuff kind of comes down.

And originally, I want it
to do a book about, like

dressing from the dorm room
to the boardroom,

like kind of like a dress for success,
like what you do in your early 20s.

And as I turned around, right.

Time flies and I turned around and I’m

like, oh my gosh,
I’m like father and business.

Then like dorm room.

It’s like that’s like I think I
need like a different audience.

And I’m really like,
what started to come out of it was

this idea that you fell
forward a lot in business.

Like I know.
I know.

Like there’s always like the joke
that where it’s like, oh, it is,

you know, does Texas go like this,
like in a straight line?

And then it’s like,all right.

And it’s all over.

And and so I think it’s this idea of when

you get your hands dirty in business,
you’re if you’re always waiting

for perfection, you’re not going
to get there like you’re stuck.

And so you’re always like,
I got 80 percent of the information.

I’m going to make the next
step based on what I know.

And you kind of just keep
doing this on repeat and.

The more you do it,
I think you start to build this intuition

to how you handle your
Decision-Making in business.

And so the book is really

about a series of ways to make
decisions as you’re trying to

get forward and go through things.

And, you know, I had a lot of the book

done as we were going into covid and
my publisher and I basically said this.

This has got to go out now.

And the reason for it is, is

I’ve been on a few calls with some
like entrepreneurship classes.

And the first thing that I say

to the entrepreneurship classes is I say
congratulations for being

in an entrepreneurship class during
coronavirus, because

you are learning right now what it’s like
to deal with a disaster on a daily basis,

like because I don’t think
business is always easy.

No, I think I see your face.

It is not it’s not only
not easy, it’s it’s hard.

It’s hard.
And you need to be able to, like,

make decisions on the fly
with the information that, you know.

And so being able to be

able to make decisions in agile
environments is really important.

And so

I felt like as we were going
through this, I felt like

the story is not just, hey, it’s a success
story that I’ve made it out of it alive.

It’s kind of saying I am right there
with you like you are not alone.

Like all of us,
small business owners are kind of

on the same path.

But you know what?

We’re the backbone of the people
that we’ve been able to push through.

And you just, you know, part of it is
grit and part of it is gusto.

I cannot believe during our first shut

every time I got on the phone with one
of my restaurant owners, to your point,

before they were coming up with new clever
ideas on how to, like,

pitch something or present something or
how to, like, send stuff to a table.

And I would be talking to business
owners all over the country.

And I have these moments when I talk

to business owners from
Texas to California to Maine,

and the stories are exactly
the same and I think myself.

It’s not that someone is being so much

more innovative, but it makes you feel
like you have some camaraderie with people

that are going through the same process
or the same steps that you are.

And and so I feel like the book is kind
of team nice, some business owners to kind

of say, hey, we’re going
through this and you can do it.

And you know what, like wake up.

Like, I joke like put on, like,

your favorite underwear because
that’s like your superhero costume.

Like, before you get out there and go out

into the world every day
and don’t be afraid to make mistakes

because you fall once, you get up twice,
like you just keep moving ahead. And like

before we know it, we’re going
to be through this also, right?

Yeah, I feel like every

10 years or so we run
into a little hiccup.


Rection or whatever you want
to call winter or whatever.

So it was interesting when you were

talking in your book about
what to wear for zoo meetings.


People have kind of started dressing down,
some of them way down, looking up.

You’re going to paint
the whole way over your head.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, it’s kind of funny because you
when we got to like the dressing section,

you know, like at that point, like,
we have some family,

friends that are involved in the fashion
industry and people and like people that’s

like button down shirts
are being laid off.

And then I’ve got clients that are selling
like lingerie, e-commerce and sales are

through the roof like and, you know,
everything is all over the place and

different meetings.

But. Well, but what I really think it was

like really a challenge to say, do you
keep some nicer clothes still in your

wardrobe or do we just kind
of start going the other direction?


I think, like, there’s still something

to be said about being able to,
like, dress up, show up.

And it doesn’t mean that you need to be
in a full suit, but it definitely means

how do you want to present yourself and
what image do you want to push across?

I mean, the images that we’re pushing
across today are flat, right?


we’re not really getting the opportunity

to, like, sit across from someone
and shake hands like.

Like the art of shaking hands is gone.

Like, I remember being in business school
and the diagram comes up on the funny

background and it goes, you know,
you’re going to interlock them.

And I remember that, like,
that’s going to be a totally different

lesson, you know,
to the students of business school.

You know, it’s interesting you say

that because my kids remote
with the school now, of course,

and I was looking at the week,
what they’re being taught this week.

And one of the main things was how

to communicate and introduce yourself
to people without touching them.

So no hug or high five, no handshake,
just the different ways to do this.

And oh, my gosh,
I just felt like what are we teaching?

Oh, yes, I’m a guy that
shake hands high five.


Some people hugs, but mostly
high fives and shaking hands.


I’m like, we’re teaching them how
not to do that, but oh my gosh.


Because to me I’m like,
we can’t be afraid of this forever.

Like this can’t go on forever.
Can’t possibly.

But I’ve been wrong about a lot of stuff
so maybe I’ll be wrong about that.

I hope not that maybe like oh I can’t
get another high five before I’m dead.

I feel like we’ve got a problem.

Well, you know, I have to tell I mean,

even back to your concept
of like, faux pas, right?

Like, I mean, I, I,
I have spent the majority of my business

life doing face to face meetings and going
out and having dinner with people

and getting to know them
and doing activities.


you know, we New Jersey had done
a lockdown and we finally started to be

able to go out and we went to a picnic
with a few other families.

And kind of to your point,
because it’s so second nature,

like I saw someone and they introduced
themselves and I immediately, like,

shut up, shook my hand out and grab
their hand to, like, shake it.

And as I’m shaking and I’m thinking
to myself,

I don’t think I’m supposed to be doing
this right now, like

like it’s almost like the other direction
where you’re like, oh, my gosh,

I forgot that I probably shouldn’t
even be doing this, you know.

So weird.
So weird.

I don’t

So, so my, my background I so I got I went

to University
of Maryland College Park, OK.

And I got my degree from Robert H.

Smith School of Business and I
got it in Human Resources.

And what I really loved was I.

We love this idea of how

people grow and interact,
and they always talk about the hardest

thing to change in any
business is culture.

Oh yeah.

So most important thing to the most

important thing, which is
the hardest thing to change.

And so isn’t it ironic that, like,

the entire world is being asked
to change their cultural norms.

As a way to succeed when we already know

that this is actually
the hardest thing to do?

From my point of view,

you’re essentially asking
an extremely social species to not be

social or to be social on these on a
digital front, which is way different.

I’m like, this is a difference
between watching porn and having sex.

Yes, not the same.

Yeah, well, you know, it’s kind of funny.

So, I mean, back to like the book
when I talk about this section about

what do we dress like today.

Or how do we dress for success.

You know, I kind of like do
a joke in the beginning.

And I say, you know,

whenever I watch movies like Waterworld,
all these futuristic movies and everyone,

everyone looks like they’re a disaster.
What happened?

And then we get through Korona And you
think to yourself,

after you’ve looked at yourself
in the mirror, I know what happened.

We all got, like locked
down and can do anything.

I think it’s like one of these things

where I, I also am, like, blown away by,
like, our point in history that we’re in.

I think we’re in a really huge inflection
point where people are going to

drastically change
the way technology works.

And so, yes, I agree with you.

I think Flat Zoom doesn’t work like this
does not work from a social standpoint.

It doesn’t work for business development.

It just doesn’t work.

And I think that there’s going to be new

technologies that are going to be coming
out that are going to try to create more

social dynamics, three dimensional or
like, you know, I think about Star Wars

where like Princess Leia should a hologram
like I I don’t know exactly what it looks

like yet, but I’m pretty
sure the future of.

Communication digitally
is not going to be flat.

All right.
I hope not.

And I would like to go back to in person,
but I like to go back to a person

that said we’re able to do this
and you’re halfway across the country.

So there’s I guess there’s
benefits as far as that goes.


And it I guess it made some changes or
forced some changes in my business

that turned out to be positive that I
would have never expected to be positive.


There’s there’s a little bit.

So what’s it like, what type
of changes have you seen?

Oh, my people not being
in the office anymore, OK?

Yeah, they went away.

So I created a studio A.

A pod cast recording studio,
not this one, but over there

for people that are still willing
to come in person that can slash will.

And because I don’t know what else to do
with the space, I’m paying for it.

And I have a lease.

So I figured I better
use it for something.

I got it.
So you put up on one side,

some on your side, and then you’re like,
we’re going to roll with it.

Yeah, you just got to adapt.

We’re all the employees are
working out of the house now.

The house is now

and I would have never guessed that they
would be as productive as they are.

But thank goodness, man,

they have been arguably more so
I don’t know if that would have been

the case with a lot of other
employees that I had.

I think it’s safe to say that would
not be the case with other employees.

But this crew, Tip-Top super awesome.
That’s awesome.

So I don’t see it coming back,

even if if they’re like, wait, you know,
like they the media or whatever you want

to say, whoever whoever comes out
and says, it’s like we were just kidding.

It’s not really that big of a deal.

Go back to the way you were,
I probably think.

We’re we’re working from home.

It’s OK.

So I have a silly question then,

so like what would you continue
to do with your space?

Nothing, I think I’ll let the lease lapse
and I’ll build an office in my house.

Or in a bit of coworking space or
something like that,

some escapement, say, actually,
so I just saw an article that said

coworking spaces are
expecting five times growth.

I can see if you can survive
this year going out to whatever.


Yeah, because.

I guess I like the idea of a coworking
space in the coworking spaces that have

seen the different options as far as
privacy or walls are open or whatever you

want, or going back to your desk or
just using a flat surface, whatever.

There are tons of options.

Yeah, and if you’re not if it’s not needed

eight hours a day every day,
then it’s a it is a practical alternative.



I definitely think that’s
going to be that’s my opinion.

I think stuff is going
to head towards that.

And I guess going back to the whole

culture thing without employees in my
office, I don’t have anyone to talk to.

And I like to have those conversations.

I think even like Apple had that whole
centering thing where they wanted to have

people accidentally bump into each other
to trigger conversations.


And you don’t accidentally run
into someone when you’re remote.


So you need some means of communicating
with people that is not scheduled.

It’s just

serendipity takes over
for something like that.

And right now, I think we’re we’re
removing a lot of that opportunity.

Yeah, that’s interesting.

I could see that.

Yeah, just to have

what was the I can’t refuse Apple or
Google where they have this huge

area in the middle
where I think I don’t know if they had

the food and stuff like
that in the middle.

So people had to leave their office and go

through this huge area where
they’re bound to see other people.

So and maybe accidentally talk to someone
and maybe accidentally invent whatever.

I can tell you.
I mean, I agree with you.

So, I mean, I do a lot of work
in the hospitality industry.

And I actually think it was

because of that background in hospitality
that I feel so passionate about coworking.

Oh, and what it was,
was I had worked for Jersey diners

and Jersey diners or if you like,
ever look at, like the history of diners.

It’s like that’s where people
used to go and have business.

You go, you get a cup of coffee,
someone else is having a cup of coffee

and it’s over a cup of coffee
that like relationships were made.

And so when I started thinking about work

environments, I felt like
that was such a critical piece.

And I’ve even seen recently people talking

about how when you create outside public
space like parks and stuff like they’re

kind of also designed so
that people interact.

And so

from a structural standpoint,

I don’t I don’t totally know what
we’re going to see in the future.

And I think.
I think.

I don’t know if people really have clear
ideas around that, like

even like for like thought leaders
in those areas, I, I know they’re thinking

about it, but I don’t know if people
have come up with anything clever yet.

I think that.
Yeah, I think you’re correct there.

We don’t know.

It’s just mass confusion, right.

Oh I think we’re all just kind of doing
what we think is the best that we can

and just adapting as we’re
as we’re moving on.

That’s just the name
of the game in business.

I think I even wrote a blog about that

where it wouldn’t matter
if it happened or not.

You would have some other problems that
you’d have to solve as a business owner.

Yeah, just to happen,
especially if you have employees.

Yeah, totally.

Just problems, problems, problems.
They just come.

You will never be without problems.

If you without them you’ll create some.

Just say you can have
something that was so funny.

Like everyone’s like man.

And I thought I had problems
the day before covid you know.

And you’re like wait.

I got like other problems
and you’re right.

Like even when there aren’t legitimate
problems, something’s a problem.


So you know, but but I do think, like,
we’re getting a little bit of this, like,

time under tension, stress,
opportunity, where if you are.

I know a lot of business owners I’ve
talked to are exhausted,

like they’re eight months into this
and they’re like, I’m emotionally burnt.

And one of the things I’ve been talking

about is we’ve been going
into the holidays is take a week off,

like shut your business and take a week
off, because we’re not really taking

long weekends away the way that we used
to or we’re not taking

a week vacation because where
are you going on your vacation?

Like staycation?

We’re already staycation.

So, you know, I don’t think people are
giving themselves a chance to recharge.

You know, I feel like whenever you read
fitness books or like goal setting books,

they really say you can really only do
a hard push like 90 days at a time.

You know, like and if we’re eight months
into this, like, take take off,

take off between Christmas and New Year’s,
you know, like give yourself a legitimate

break because, you know,
I think we got another push ahead of us.

And I think it’s in those rest periods
that all of this extra stress or decision

making, when we just pause a minute,
like our brains could just think enough or

clear out enough that, like,
I think we can get creative again.

And so I think that’s kind of like

the next piece as a culture we
really need to be pushing on.

Yeah, that’s a good
that’s a very good point.

You can definitely tell
that people are getting fatigued.

And they’re just I don’t know,
I guess ever since March,

I feel like there’s just been this cloud
of frustration or tension.

Or just maybe it’s

people throwing up their arms thinking,
I don’t know what’s going to happen,

whether they’re concerned about their job
or their business or I mean,

what are their market is going
to crash or something like that.

There’s just so much going
on in inundating people

that it’s tough to it’s tough to even
adapt, let alone perceive what’s going on.

Well, that’s the that’s the thing, right?

Like, you’re not even like getting through
to something where it’s like, hey,

I implemented this thing and I followed it
through one hundred percent because like,

as soon as you’re implementing it,
it’s changing.

Twenty four hours later, you know,
we do a lot of work in hospitality and.

Every time we were putting something up
on a website, you know,

Governor Murphy was changing the rules and
we were changing the communication again.

You guys had a mass stop.

And so, you know, I think
partially what I’m also seeing

in the environment is like everyone just
kind of saying, I don’t want to get away.

It goes back to what we
were talking about before.

we don’t want to be doing a hundred

different things or selling
a hundred different products.

We’re only going to sell five
products that are 10 products.

I’m seeing a lot of streamlining,
a lot of like where can we cut things?

How can we make our processes easier?

We don’t want people calling and talking
to customer service and getting rerouted.

We want people to be able to go
to the water line, right.

Everyone’s trying to figure out
how do I streamline my process.

And and so I think this is what business
owners are getting really clear about.

So even if they’re like
because they got to be able to adjust

where they’re saying, hey,
whether we’re getting full shutdowns or

we’re getting fully open,
I need to be able to adjust quickly.

And so I can do that if
I’m not agile enough.

And so I think they’re doing
a lot of streamlining.

I think that’s fair, that’s fair,

I think is a challenge because
there’s an expense to that, right?

When their export sales are down or they
don’t even know if their industry is going

to survive the industry,
let alone their business.

Yeah, and they’re either having to
lay down some money

to come up with a website or an app or
something like that that can solve

whatever problem it is
to keep their customers.

It’s a challenging place to be. Yeah,
we’re gonna ask you,

because you do a lot of marketing
with restaurants,

where do you see the restaurant industry
going in, let’s say, three years?

That’s great question.

That’s a great question.

You. Ironically,
the Restaurant Association just put out

a where’s the restaurant
industry going in the future?

And I think the funny and I did I did
not take that webinar yet, but I think

I think what we’re going to end up seeing
is a lot more self-service type stuff.

I think we’re going to end up
seeing subscription stuff.

I think one of the most clever things

that I’ve seen come out as we were going
in there, not because of covid was I don’t

like Piñera is offering like coffee,
coffee subscription programs.

So so for nine dollars and ninety nine
cents, you can go to Piñera every day

and get a free cup of coffee because
they’re using it as a loss leader.

Like I’m not just going to get a cup

of coffee 30 days in a row
and never get anything else.

So they’re banking on the fact that.

You know, like we talk about restaurants,

the ways that you increase your dollars is
either, you know,

hey, a table that’s getting entrees,
you’re going to have them get more.

They’re going to get appetizers or

desserts or you’re going to say to them,
hey, you come in once a month.

Now we want you to come in twice a month.

So if you increase someone’s

repeat business, just minimally,
you increase your margin.

And so

programs like the coffee subscription
program are fantastic because

they’re going to increase frequency
at minimal dollars.

They’re using it a little bit as
a loss leader in the beginning,

but it starts to create
a sense of like loyalty.

And so I think loyalty programs where they

used to be, hey, come and spend so much
dollars and we’ll give you discounts,

I think they’re going to come up
with new ways to create loyalty programs

and allow for people to do
a lot more self serve.

So I that’s kind of what I see
kind of coming down the pipeline.


What about the the more sit
down or more formal restaurant?

I think back to like when we were talking
about, like small restaurants,

I think if you’re small enough,
I think you’ll be OK.

I think the places that have

bigger buildings, bigger overhead,
are going to be more challenged.

I think that.

You know, I’ve seen some

of my restaurants, they’re trying to take
their products and sell wholesale,

I’ve seen some of my Claudet clients
starting to set up one of them.

One of the more clever ones
that I’ve seen lately is,

in fact, selling the one like three
or four of my clients are doing it.

But I like this one particular one.

We have a client called
Quinkan Moo Barbecue.

Oh, nice and welcome.

Or we can move barbecue sells barbecue,

but they’re actually now
also selling as a market.

So when you come to their store,

you can actually buy Smokers’ from them,
you can finance your smokers’ from them,

you can buy your woodchips,
you can buy like steaks.

So they really are trying to just say,

hey, you’re not just going to come and get
a five dollar barbecue,

you’re going to come and get a
thousand dollar smaller share, OK?


So they’re all kind of doing
a little bit of that type of stuff.

So I’ve seen some of our
clients sell market.

We do some work with like some Greek

restaurants and they started
doing like import markets.

So they’ve taken out some of their inside

seats and they’ve started saying,
you know, come in and pick up your olive

oil and pick up your breads and pick up
your nest cafe and the items.

So I think the market ideas kind

of clever, because
when we go back to small business,

you know, like you also think
a little bit more specialty.

And so you’re going to get, I think,

some more of these,
like specialty items that are coming

through, even some of like
more high end places.

You know, there’s a great place

in New Jersey, grounds for sculpture
that’s outside Sculpture Garden.

And they have a beautiful French
restaurant called Raft’s on the Grounds.

And Raths is putting
together picnic baskets.

You get these gourmet picnic baskets
and have a picnic on the grounds.

So this is where I’m saying I think.

People are are being able to be clever,

but it doesn’t create
the same turns, right?

Like how restaurants make money is am I

turning my tables and return
them for higher dollar values?

I think it’s going to cut some
of the margin, but I think it will.

Bridge between where we are and probably
where we’re going, and I think

you’re going to see more collaboration,
so like when I see

the smokers being sold at the barbecue

place, maybe the smokers are going to be
paying for some of the marketing dollars.

Maybe there’s pullup dollars, you know,

so I think there’s going to be more
collaboration that’s occurring

so that I do think that’s going to happen.

I’m just starting to see it, though.

It’s interesting.

Is it challenging world?

I really like your book because it talks

essentially about
how I don’t want to say that they’re

necessarily like this is what you
got to do answer’s kind of thing.

But but it was an awareness.

This is what you have to look for.

These are some options and they give you

a lot of choices to at least
put your brain to think about.

OK, we know that we can get through this.

We just have to figure out how

all there is to it and then actually
implement it once you figure out.


So, I mean, you know, like,
there’s a great book out out there,

Maria for Leo.

I think that’s who writes it.

Everything’s figure out a all you know.

Oh that’s another Jersey girl.

And all of her stuff is all about,

you know, it’s stories about
how people figure things out.

And and I think when I sit down and I say,
hey, we’re going to work on a marketing

plan, we play the game of like,
where are you today?

Where do you want to go?
Here’s your gap.

How do we close it?

And I think the big piece that I’m
trying to say in the book also is.

For right now, we don’t got to worry about

what’s happening in 10 years,
let’s worry about the next 60 days,

the next 90 days, the next plague,
you know, like let’s just kind of get

through bits and pieces
one step at a time,

because I think
as fast as we make changes,

the external environment changes
and we have to change again.

Like trying to say, hey,

this is the new model of how coworking
is going to look for the next 10 years.

It’s crazy like we don’t 10 years.

We don’t know that much.

Like we just know how do we get
communities reacquainted today?

Like, that’s the only
thing we can figure out.

And then, you know,
I’m a really big fan of if you listen

to the market, the market will
tell you exactly how to sell them.

Oh, interesting.

And so in order to do that,

you got to roll your sleeves up
and got to ask a lot of questions.

What do you like about this, how’s this
experience going, how can we change it?

And so I think as you continue to ask
questions are going to continue to get

answers to know how to ship things
that make sense.

I like that.
Yeah, I like it.

What has been your biggest

we’ll call it

nugget that you’ve learned since
you started your business in 2008?

My biggest nugget.

That’s a good question.

I think

I think the biggest nugget has been

I think it’s I think it really falls
back to the concept of failed forward.

OK, I, I just I think you
just need to accept that.

In order to move ahead,

you’re not going to know every answer
and you need to kind of be OK with that.

Fair, totally fair.

Yeah, I think like because
I think I probably.

I don’t think I’ve ever been
a perfectionist, but I think I.

I realize to get ahead,

you got to keep going forward,
OK, you got to stay in motion.

That makes sense.

Yes, and I think a lot of times,
like where I see people stalled out,

it just seems like they stop making
decisions or they get paralyzed a little.

And I think even if you make the wrong

decision, you’ve got to keep
some of your inertia moving.

Oh, absolutely.

The rule is in my world,
the rule is keep it moving.

Just go, go, go.

You either grow or you die.

So, yeah, that’s an interesting I like
that in the in the Midwest here,

there’s a lot of people that are terrible
and making decisions,

just slow moving train extreme,
extremely slow moving train.

They just want to get as much data as

possible, even if it takes them 10 years
to decide what to order for breakfast.

Oh yeah.
I’m like, oh my gosh, you got to go.

Had to go.
Yeah, I know.

And I think like to that point,

I feel like you’ve got to surround
yourself by people that go.

Mm hmm.
Oh absolutely.

Oh yeah.
You try.

I love it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Good job.

I love doing business
with people on the East Coast.


Because you guys get stuff done, we just
go oh my gosh, I love it, I love it.

I’m like, I got to move by you.

People are so phenomenal.

You just need to like
virtually chat with all of us.


it’s maybe those

shops with cameras and TVs will
interact accidentally with know funny.


You know, the concept,
but it’s interesting.

Well, thanks for being on the show.

This has been super cool.

Before we go, do you have a favorite

business book or favorite book of any
kind that you’d like to tell me about.

Favorite book.
Favorite book.

I just like to ask authors that because

that means chances are if you
wrote a book, you read books.

I do read.
I read tons of books.

I actually just finished a book.

I’m going to make sure I get it right
because I actually thought it was good.

The last book that I just finished was.

The Compound Effect by Darren Hardly,

I read that book, yeah. Yeah,
that was the last one that I read

and I definitely, you know,
I noticed no matter what business book I

read, there’s hundreds
of things in all of them.

You don’t need you don’t need to take
one hundred things from all of them.

You just need to take one, right?

Yeah, it’s totally worth it.

And you just getting to your point before

you get a nugget in a nugget of a nugget,
and next thing you know,

you turn around and you’ve got
you’ve got some pretty good foundation.

Mm hmm.
Yeah, absolutely.

That’s awesome.
Where can people find Main Street Moxie,



So Amazon Main Street Moxie – Surviving and
Thriving in the New American Marketplace.

The New American Marketplace.

It is not the old American marketplace.

All new funny.

That’s awesome.
This has been

Authentic Business Adventures the business
program that brings you the struggle

stories and triumphs and successes
of business owners across the land.

Oh, my goodness gracious.
We covered a lot of ground.

Well, we did.
We did.

I’m excited to see what
happens in the next.

Well, forever, really.

But let’s call it in the next two years,
I feel like it’s going to take another

year for us to figure out
what is going on.

And then after that,
I feel like we’ll have a

I was going to say a track or a rut.

I’m not sure which one it’ll be,
but hopefully it’s a track.

I hear you.

So it’s just fun.

And you’re in the marketing world,

so it’ll be fun to see
what you do with all that.

Yes, cool.

My name is James Kademan
and Authentic Business Adventures is

brought to you by Calls On Call offering
call answering and receptionist services

for service businesses across
the country, on the web at

As well as
Draw In Customers Business Coaching

offering coaching services
for entrepreneurs looking for growth.

Hopefully that’s all of them. On the web

And of course The Bold Business Book. A book
for the entrepreneur in all of us

available on Amazon and wherever
fine books are sold.

We’d like to thank you our wonderful
listeners, as well as our guest

Noelle Stary, author
of Main Street Moxie – From Surviving

to Thriving
in the New American Marketplace,

as well as the founder of 20 Lemons
and the Coworking Space.

I love that you have so much going on.
It’s so cool.

Thank you.

Find us airing locally on 103.5 Wednesdays at 1:00 p.m.,

Sundays at 2 p.m. And let’s see here,
past episodes can be found morning,

noon, and night, at the podcast link found

Thank you for listening.
We’ll see you next week.

I want you to stay awesome.

And if you do nothing else,
enjoy your business.




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