How to Have Atomic Grit

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Valerie McGeHee PhD – Author of Atomic Grit

Podcast Overview:

00:00 Dissertation struggle leads to embracing social support.
03:18 Setting goals, grit, and social support success.
07:10 Epilogue shares story of challenging school experience.
10:31 Received college scholarship, achieved academic success. Taught.
14:41 Unexpected journey from teaching to business sales.
17:48 Importance of career guidance for younger people.
20:35 Decade of experience prepares for educational sales.
25:17 Teaching English in China, juggling multiple jobs.
27:20 Many lack goals and motivation for success.
31:24 Leadership and management: challenging but fulfilling.
36:18 Know numbers, communication, leadership, be always prepared.
38:33 Senior leaders are great at storytelling with data.
42:34 Delayed response, professor support, husband coaching dissertation.
45:25 Moments of achieving ultimate happiness in accomplishing.

Podcast Transcription:

Valerie McGeHee [00:00:00]:
So prior to being committed to this, it would ruin my day, my week if somebody asked, oh, are you finished yet? And I’m like, not yet.

James [00:00:10]:
You have found Authentic Business Adventures, the business program that brings you the struggle stories and triumphant successes. Business owners across the land. Downloadable audio episodes can be found in the podcast link found at drawincustomers.com. We are locally underwritten by the Bank of Sun Prairie and calls on call extraordinary answering service as well as the Bold Business Book. And today, we’re welcoming slash preparing to learn from Valerie oh, my goodness. Valerie McGeHee. Did I say the name right, Valerie?

Valerie McGeHee [00:00:40]:
Right. Valerie McGehee.

James [00:00:42]:
Alright. Author of Atomic Grit, which that’s gonna be 1 of the coolest names of a book that I’ve ever heard. So, Valerie, how is it going today?

Valerie McGeHee [00:00:51]:
It’s great. It’s a beautiful day in Atlanta. And, I’m loving being an executive and now a new author. So it’s

James [00:01:00]:
Nice.

Valerie McGeHee [00:01:01]:
Can’t complain.

James [00:01:02]:
So let’s let’s start with the the Atomic Grit book.

Valerie McGeHee [00:01:05]:
Yeah.

James [00:01:06]:
What triggered you? What was the big inspiring moment or 2 that caused you to write that book?

Valerie McGeHee [00:01:12]:
So it began with my doctoral dissertation, which I did on grit goal setting and social support. And I had always been an overachiever my entire life. And I got to a point where I was stuck, and I could not finish writing my dissertation. And I was like, what the heck? I could I mean, I’ve accomplished so many things and did most of them by myself. So it was fun, but it was also a lonely journey of accomplishments. And I was embarrassed to admit to anybody that I couldn’t get through my doctorate. And it wasn’t until I discovered social support that well, also accepting social support, which is basically in this situation, is someone saying that they’re your accountability partner. Like, hey.

Valerie McGeHee [00:02:11]:
Checking in on you. Like, how far did you get with your rating today? Where did you finish yet? And so I I came across, my accountability partner, and he checked in on me. He helped to edit my work, and it was at that point where I was able to finish my dissertation. But let me just rewind. When I was trying to figure out what my topic should be, I started to interview other people who had graduated from my program, other doctorates.

James [00:02:44]:
And I

Valerie McGeHee [00:02:44]:
was like, what did you do to finish? And the theme in common with all of them was that they had this grit, this resilience that was just innate. They they were just you know, overachievers. And they set goals to finish their writing. And that’s because, I mean, I I went through the program fairly fast. I passed all my exams the first try. So I’m like, I could do this. But when you’re on your own and you have nobody telling you you have to write, you have to submit this, no. You’re basically doing the doing this independently.

Valerie McGeHee [00:03:18]:
They told me that they set goals. And so after doing all this research, I went to my advisor and I said, I think I wanna do my research on grit goal setting, and social support because I’ve done so much research already on figuring out how I should finish this, that I wanna do it based on how to finish a doctoral program. And so after cleaning it up, he approved Grit, and basically, at that point, also said, well, if you don’t get it done soon, like, you’re just gonna have to maybe accept the masters instead of a doctorate. I’m like, no, no, no, no, no. We’re not doing that. So, I actually enjoy doing my research, and I found that, no matter your income level, your, where you were raised, if you were in a divorced household, where your parents were married, it didn’t matter. If you had grit, if you could set goals, and you had some sort of social support, which was the missing piece, which is accepting help from others, accepting, mentoring for account help getting help with accountability, you would be successful. And so, Stephen Covey, he wrote the 7 habits of highly affected people.

Valerie McGeHee [00:04:36]:
And he discovered, he created the basically with his research, he put together the maturity continuum, and it’s on the bottom level is dependence, on the middle level is independence, and the top of the maturity continuum is interdependence. And that means you are able to be interdependent, but you’re also capable of working with others. And that’s the ultimate level of maturity knowing that you could do it yourself, but you’re more successful when you have when you’re working together. And this could be in any situation. A couple or roommates living together, both buying food or paying the rent McGeHee. You know, it’s more successful that way. In my situation, I accepted help. I was I had to throw out the window that I’m independent.

Valerie McGeHee [00:05:25]:
I could do this myself. I was more successful when I accepted the help of somebody checking in on me and admitting that I couldn’t get this done on my own because life got in the way and I got distracted. I did everything else but making this my priority. So I had already done the research of grit, goal setting, and social support, which is the premise of the book. But when I became a professor at the University of Louisiana, I was always giving my students advice on career help and, you know, helping to make good choices after college. And and so a few times I would hear, you have to write this down where, you know, did you write a book on this yet? And, and so a few years had passed and this past summer I was like, I just need to get this out of my head. I have their research. I just need to put my stories with the research, my personal stories.

Valerie McGeHee [00:06:19]:
And I get to write a fun book instead of, collegiate research that goes into a journal that other professors read. I want this to be, like, a fun book, and so that’s how it came to be.

James [00:06:34]:
Nice. Yeah. And what how like, I wrote a book, and it’s interesting how you get the stuff in your head, and you just get in that zone. Yep. And you type, type, type, type, type, and then it takes a little while because you’re not just knocking it out in 1 sitting.

Valerie McGeHee [00:06:50]:
No. You

James [00:06:50]:
gotta come back and then you think like, oh my gosh. I gotta put that little thing in the book. Am I gonna put that little thing in

Valerie McGeHee [00:06:55]:
the book? I’d be driving. I would be in the shower. I’d be falling asleep. And I’m like, oh my god. I have to add that story. That’s like and actually when I was I remember 1 night I couldn’t sleep. I was thinking about my book and I was like, I just feel like something’s missing. And I’m like, oh my god.

Valerie McGeHee [00:07:10]:
I need to talk about how this all started with my my goal setting. And I I added it to the end of the book as the epilogue, and I tell a story about my 4th grade teacher. And don’t mention her name. And I actually give her credit and thank her for for doing what she did. But, I was new to a to a school. My parents had divorced and remarried, and I was living with my mom and her new husband, and I was the newbie. And I walk into the classroom and the teacher, I just felt like she didn’t like me from the very beginning. She put me in the back of the room next to the windows, and I had a lot going on in my life.

Valerie McGeHee [00:07:54]:
You know, I was in a new, my mom was married to somebody new and I wasn’t, I didn’t see my dad. And, and so I was, like, daydreaming, not paying attention much. And, I remember doing some math work and then not really knowing what I was doing. I get back the paper, and she made Grit a point for herself to bring it to my desk. Very dramatic, smack it down with big x in red, of course, across the whole paper with an f circled on top. We’ve all seen that before. And she looks down at me, and I look up at her with shame, just filled with james. And she says, if you can’t get this math, you’re never gonna make it to college.

Valerie McGeHee [00:08:38]:
And I was like, oh my god. I hope this isn’t true. And I was so scared. I was like, if I don’t if I can’t figure this out, I’ll never make it to college. And later that day, I went home, and I Oprah was on at the time. She had an episode about, like, writing your goals down and write the dates when you want to achieve them, and you’ll you’ll more likely achieve the goals if you have dates. And so I started to do I would Grit pages and pages of goals even up until, like, I was an adult, like and I was only in 4th grade, so 10 years old. But Wow.

Valerie McGeHee [00:09:13]:
I I mean, just james, pages of what I wanted out of life. And, and I just became a serial goal setter, and I would just get things done because I wanted to prove her wrong. But, the irony was that, kind of like forgot about her and and that, and it was just made at that point. I got an invitation in high school to attend the college, scholarship award ceremony. And I was like, oh, this is exciting. I remember my guidance counselor had me, apply to the Hungarian Rotary Club because my grandmother was from Hungary and I was on Carrington. And, so I was like, oh, I guess I’m getting that scholarship. It was like $1200.

Valerie McGeHee [00:10:00]:
And and so my mom was there in the audience, separated. The parents and the students were sitting separate, and they called my name for this. I I got that scholarship, and I was like, oh, okay. That’s exciting. Then at the end, every elementary school that filtered into the high school was giving a student, who’s graduating a scholarship. And so my school, gets called up. The person presenting that scholarship is my 4th grade teacher. I’m like, oh gosh.

Valerie McGeHee [00:10:31]:
Her. And, she called my name, and I get this the college scholarship. So I’m like, wow. This is so ironic. And I don’t remember this part, but my mom does, that I walked all the way around past her past my teacher, my former teacher, went to the audience and high fived my mom, and then went up and got my my music scholarship. And, it was just 1 of those moments where I was like I felt like I proved myself, but I didn’t stop there. I ended up going finishing college early, getting my master’s, becoming, a part time professor at age 23, and then going on to finish to complete my doctorate. But after college, I was an elementary teacher for 10 years, and I taught 4th grade, And I made sure that every kid knew how to do their math.

Valerie McGeHee [00:11:29]:
Yeah.

James [00:11:31]:
So all from that 1 moment with that 4th grade teacher

Valerie McGeHee [00:11:34]:
Yeah. Yeah. And if

James [00:11:35]:
whole thing stemmed.

Valerie McGeHee [00:11:36]:
If it wasn’t for her, I may not have done all of this, but she triggered something in me. And, it’s basically the title of my book, Atomic Grit, which is the difference between grit and atomic grit is atomic grit is in every capacity of your life. You are just you go above and beyond. You can, visualize your achieving your goals as if it’s already happened. You write down your goals as if they already happened. You write when you wanna finish them. But in everything you do, it’s it’s just all encompassing. It’s who you are.

James [00:12:16]:
Nice. I like it. I like it. Tell me why did you end up getting out of elementary school teaching?

Valerie McGeHee [00:12:23]:
So when I was going for my doctorate, I needed to take 1 elective. And so I took a business course, and I was like, oh my gosh. I really love business. And so I ended up, finishing a graduate certificate in entrepreneurship, while I was going for my while I was taking my doctoral courses. And I I was as a hobby, I used to make swimsuits. I used to take my, like, swimsuits and, like, cut them up and embellish them and and sew them and make new ones. And my my friend would give me theirs and I would do the same thing. And so I started a swimsuit company.

James [00:13:07]:
Oh, real? Wow.

Valerie McGeHee [00:13:08]:
That’s awesome. Living in New Jersey, I had access to New York City, and my friend who was a photographer had posted some pictures of my swimsuits on his website. An event coordinator for 1 of the big nightclubs called the Hudson Terrace, reached out to him. I was like, who’s that swimwear designer? And he gave him my number. I ended up, giving them get using they they were using my swimsuits for a modeling agency that had to do a fashion show that weekend. Their swimsuit designer bailed, and they used mine. And, between, like, social media and different people being there, it, like, it just blew up. And it was an accident.

Valerie McGeHee [00:13:54]:
And I was an elementary teacher still. And on the weekends, I was and I was going to these fashion shows and do the Oscars to do their gifting suite. And then I got a call from the Grammys to do their gifting suite. So I was going back and forth to Beverly Hills and living a double life. And I remember, I was ready to resign from teaching, and I got called into the principal’s office because I didn’t I had to leave I had to leave on a Friday, and I missed a professional development day. And she was like, you know, this is just unacceptable. She’s like, where were you? What what was your excuse? And I said, I was at the Emmy’s. And she was like, oh, okay.

Valerie McGeHee [00:14:41]:
I just didn’t expect to hear that because I kept it as private as I could. And, and then I said, and I am also residing. But I had done my 10 years, and, I just knew that if I wasn’t if I wasn’t going to go into business, I wanted to be more than a classroom teacher, and I was gonna go to be, like, a principal or a superintendent. I just knew that teaching was a great job and it was fun and, I really enjoyed it. I just knew that there was like much more for me. And so I did The Swimsuit Company for about 4 years, and then somebody offered to partner with me. Didn’t wanna do that, and I end up selling my stock to this person. And then I got a job doing educational sales.

Valerie McGeHee [00:15:29]:
And so that started, you know, the business. I felt like having 10 years of experience in education and then getting into the business world of sales with a company that was not mine and was a it was actually Franklin Covey. It was, you know, a very it’s a very reputable company and, yeah, I love the 7 Habits and such amazing principles, and it was a great fit. So that’s how I got into business. That’s a long story after education. But then after I moved out of New Jersey, I married my husband. He’ll he’s from Louisiana. And there happened to be an opening at University of Louisiana for a sales and marketing professor.

Valerie McGeHee [00:16:11]:
And I was like, wait. That’s me. So, that was probably my most fulfilling job that I made the biggest difference in people’s lives where I helped I I helped them get jobs and grow their start their careers. So I was very a very hands on professor. I was very connected to the business community, and, I was also a sales coach. We had a sales team. So these students would compete against other sales students, other universities in in, like, sales role play and speed selling. I mean, the bravery it it takes for these sales students to do this at that age is is incredible.

Valerie McGeHee [00:16:58]:
And so I coached them and, the sales team, definitely, those were students that became very close to. Like, I would help them with their resumes. I would do role play with their interviews, and, I’m still I’m still connected to a lot of them today. And, many of them showed up for my book signing in Lafayette in March, which was so sweet. Nice. Yeah. Yeah.

James [00:17:21]:
That is cool. Yeah. So tell me as far as the the difference between putting the book together Mhmm. Just kinda for yourself and your family and friends and stuff like that and actually going full tilt publishing, throwing it out to the world. Mhmm. Was that was that challenging or was there ever a thought, like, I don’t know if I wanna put this out to the world or just give it to my my little circle, or was it just like the world needs to hear this and we’re gonna blast it off here?

Valerie McGeHee [00:17:48]:
Yeah. More of the latter. I felt like, I felt because I mean, till this day, I’m still I mean, 2 days ago, 1 of my students, my 1 of my former students was texting me on advice for a career. This is, like, her second job, her second career, and, I’m still giving advice. And so, I feel like it’s it’s so important for younger people. I mean, the book is for anybody in any stage of your life, but especially for young younger people who may not have the guidance to to start to really start their careers. And even though the book could be for men or women, I gear some areas especially towards women.

James [00:18:39]:
Okay.

Valerie McGeHee [00:18:40]:
As a female currently in a senior leadership position at my company now, you know, it’s there’s still a glass ceiling. There’s still differences. It’s not as bad as it was, you know, in the past for sure. But, and I’m treated so fairly here, and, I mean, I could go on about how awesome my coworkers are. It’s definitely a unique company. We’re we’re like a family. But, as a young woman starting off, there’s things that you need to do. I mean, when I was even though I was recruited here, I still had to go through the interview process and, you know, interview with the owner.

Valerie McGeHee [00:19:22]:
And I I was prepped how the, the second cofounder his about his personality and, how he interviewed people. And I was coached by the other cofounder on how to handle him. And I said things in this interview that I would never say to a super successful, you know, multi millionaire, billionaire owner. And because of having been coached was how I got how I secured this job. And so it’s, like, for a woman to speak up and to stand her ground against other against, like, powerful men in the industry, it’s not easy to do. And so that’s what I talk about in the book is about, you know, having this, like, relentless determination of, like, knowing your worth, working hard, work hard, play hard. You know, there’s this thing now about, like, work life balance. And

James [00:20:29]:
Oh, I hate that phrase.

Valerie McGeHee [00:20:31]:
It’s like, I want I wanna say, like, who told you this?

James [00:20:35]:
Right.

Valerie McGeHee [00:20:35]:
Who told you this? And so I mentioned in my book, like, I put in, like, 10 years of being in 1 job and committing to that job and learning education, which made me so much more prepared to sell educational to do educational sales because I wasn’t selling as somebody who didn’t have experience. I had a decade. I had my 10000 hours plus of experience that I could speak as an expert to these educational professionals, these superintendents, these, you know, board members. And so I put in time, and there’s there’s a point where it could be unhealthy if you are, you know, a slave to your job and you’re just cutting people off. And so I wanna be clear on that. And there’s different people in different careers who have who are in more need of a work life balance. You know, there’s nurses who, you know, have not been home for, for holidays because they’re they have to be working. So there’s it depends on your industry.

Valerie McGeHee [00:21:43]:
But you as as you’re beginning your career, you need to work your butt off to get the experience, prove yourself, stick to a job. And that’s another thing I talk about is to be resilient and stick to 1 job. Not for, like, a year or 2 years. Even though it’s becoming very common to see because I do interviews all the time. It’s very common to see job hoppers, especially with younger people.

James [00:22:14]:
Oh, yeah.

Valerie McGeHee [00:22:15]:
1 year or 2 year. So it’s becoming more

James [00:22:17]:
6 months.

Valerie McGeHee [00:22:18]:
It’s becoming more acceptable, but it’s it’s still hard to understand, like because you’re like, I’m gonna invest in this person, and then they’re gonna be out because they wanna work from home more. And so, there just has to be some kind of commitment. If you’re in a toxic work environment and you have to get out, that’s completely different. But if it’s not so bad, if it’s not toxic, you know, I talk about some red flags in my book about what toxic environment looks like. But you need to grind and you need to work your butt off for a good amount of your twenties. I would say all of your twenties and the beginning of your thirties to, like, really grind and and work hard. And then the work life balance comes. So, I mean, even now, it’s my work life balance isn’t is not balanced.

Valerie McGeHee [00:23:17]:
But, you know, I my husband has a flexible job. So he work he does real estate and then works he’s a professional piano player, so a lot of his stuff is at night. And so he has the flexibility, but he’s work he’s doing his part in helping out the house and I’m doing my part. So I’m try I travel a lot and, you know, I’m at the office every single day.

James [00:23:41]:
Yeah. It seems to me that there are a lot of people I I’m gonna dare say younger people, but I don’t know if it’s universally that. They feel like they’re owed something. Mhmm. And they haven’t yet learned that they have to earn something. Right. So my rule was always you do what others won’t do so that you can do what others can’t do.

Valerie McGeHee [00:24:00]:
Yes.

James [00:24:01]:
And they feel like they wanna skip that first step, and they just just like, I wanna travel. I wanna see the world. I wanna do all the things. I wanna own all the things. Yeah. But they forget that that’s not just given to you. You have to earn that. You have to find a way through the little maze.

James [00:24:16]:
Right?

Valerie McGeHee [00:24:16]:
Yes.

James [00:24:17]:
To to earn that. However however you do it. Right? There’s a many different ways. Businesses, you can start james, you can work, whatever.

Valerie McGeHee [00:24:23]:
Yep.

James [00:24:24]:
But it’s it’s unlikely that someone’s just gonna knock on your door someday and be like, here’s the keys to your yacht. Yeah. Right? It’s like that.

Valerie McGeHee [00:24:31]:
Yeah. Exactly.

James [00:24:32]:
So there’s this this mentality that’s just like, oh, I don’t wanna I don’t wanna work. I don’t wanna earn it. I don’t wanna have it 10 years from now. I wanna have it today.

Valerie McGeHee [00:24:41]:
Right.

James [00:24:42]:
Right. Not necessarily how the world works.

Valerie McGeHee [00:24:45]:
That, like, scares me. That that, like, I can’t even I don’t I can’t think that way. I can’t even imagine being so laxed that it’s just going to happen down the road. I think this is probably because my last full time job, I was still teaching an MBA class. So this is like my first time in my life where I have 1 job, and I’ve always worked 3 to 5 jobs.

James [00:25:16]:
James time. Just juggling.

Valerie McGeHee [00:25:17]:
James time. Yes. So, whether it was, like, teaching college courses part time, maybe at 2 or 3 different universities, my full time job. I remember when my husband and I first got married, I would wake up at 4 in the morning, log on and teach students in China English for 2 to 3 hours, and then I would, go teach an 8 AM class at the local university as my part time job. And then whatever university because I was teaching at 3 different universities part time. And what whichever university I was teaching at, that would be my territory where I would go and make my visits for my full time job.

James [00:26:01]:
Wow.

Valerie McGeHee [00:26:02]:
And so, you know, you have 24 hours in a day. And, you know, I say, you know, Beyonce and Taylor Swift also have 24 hours in a day and see what they can do. So

James [00:26:12]:
That’s fair.

Valerie McGeHee [00:26:13]:
It’s, you know, it’s time management and get it get it all in.

James [00:26:17]:
Yeah. I think a lot of it is an understanding of the opportunity that we have. Mhmm. And we’re like the Beyonce’s and the Taylor Swifts, whoever whoever you wanna insert that you

Valerie McGeHee [00:26:26]:
need to look

James [00:26:26]:
up to. Right? Yep. Or that you look down to or you’re just like, hey. You haven’t really done a whole lot with those 24 hours.

Valerie McGeHee [00:26:32]:
Very successful people. Yeah. Let’s Elon Musk.

James [00:26:35]:
Yeah. Whoever, whoever. There’s tons of people and they all get the same time. Mhmm. And it’s interesting because we don’t know necessarily when it’s gonna be up or done. Yeah. So, I mean, we can get hit by a bus anytime or Right. Whether you’re out of time or just incapacitated at a hospital or something like that.

Valerie McGeHee [00:26:50]:
Yeah. Yeah. But And really, it’s just all it takes is, like, here’s the average person, and if you just do a little bit more than everyone else

James [00:27:02]:
Mhmm.

Valerie McGeHee [00:27:02]:
You’ll end up if we’re going doing a chart, you’ll just be doing a little bit more than everybody else, and you’ll get ahead.

James [00:27:10]:
Oh, exponential. Yeah.

Valerie McGeHee [00:27:12]:
Yeah. And it doesn’t take that much effort, but it takes effort, and it takes to do a little bit more, a little bit more.

James [00:27:20]:
Tell me, in your book, in the research that you’ve done for Grit, and the people that you’ve taught and come across that have read your book, how many times you come across people where I guess this is a challenge that I see often, more often than I’d like, is I have all this information or all the stuff, and there’s, I mean, there’s websites, there’s YouTube videos. There’s tons of information about how to accomplish your goals and stuff goals and stuff like this. But I find people either don’t have goals or they just they kinda lack in desire. They’re barely looking an hour ahead into the future. Yeah. Barely. Right? It’s just I just wanna keep scrolling on social media.

Valerie McGeHee [00:28:00]:
Yeah. Well, I would say that’s the difference between a growth mindset and a fixed mindset. So with a growth mindset is you learn from your mistakes where you learn, you, you hear different ways to get to do things, and it’s a it’s a learning curve. And you wanna make the change and you do it different next time. The fixed mindset is, that didn’t work out, so I’m not going to try or I’m not going to do something new to to try to get there. So, and a growth mindset is teachable and changeable. You can increase your growth mindset. And it’s just being open minded to to get to that point because that’s where your grit comes in.

Valerie McGeHee [00:28:41]:
It’s how how much passion and perseverance do you have? Like, how bad do you want it? Can you envision yourself at that point? And it’s going back, it’s taking little steps to get there. If you’re not a super motivated person, it’s, you know, if you well, this here’s an example. My husband, we’re kind of new to Atlanta. We’ve been here for a year and, he needs to get get more exposed to for piano because that’s kind of, like, yeah, who you know type of thing.

James [00:29:18]:
A bit. Yeah.

Valerie McGeHee [00:29:20]:
Yeah. And so he had, a great start, but he wanted more. And he knew that he had time to open up his schedule. And so it just took 1 phone call, and then he got, reference from somebody else. And so he would just every day, he would just make a few phone calls a day, and those phone calls have now turned into basically, is supporting his lifestyle. And so it’s just, you know, you don’t have to. If you’re not the person who you wanna, like, go all out and go to the extreme, a little little at a time. That’s that’s all it takes.

Valerie McGeHee [00:29:58]:
But Oh, nice. Doing it. You have to do it. Showing up is the hardest thing. Right? Showing up is the hardest part.

James [00:30:04]:
Yeah. So So what has been the reception that you’ve gotten from the book from the people that you know? That you know have read it, I should say. It’s probably

Valerie McGeHee [00:30:12]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There. Well, I guess I don’t know if it’s because they’re family friends, but, everyone has, told me it’s, it’s been a great read. And again, even though some of it is geared towards women, I’ve had my male former college students read it and give me the same feedback. 1 of 1 of the girls I know who’s graduating undergrad now, she’s like, this is what we need to learn in schools. And, I said, well, if you were there when you when I was there, this is what I was teaching to students.

Valerie McGeHee [00:30:46]:
Nice. So, you know, it’s something that it’s yeah. There’s some basic life skills that just aren’t taught in school, and I always went out of my way to to do that as a professor. You know, teach the curriculum, but also let’s have conversations about XYZ.

James [00:31:04]:
Mhmm. So But you mentioned I wanna say the word leadership came up when I was researching your book quite a bit. Mhmm. So can you tell me about that and what you’ve seen as far as that goes with either your students or just people in general as far as either wanting to be leaders or or maybe even wanting to be followers, I guess?

Valerie McGeHee [00:31:24]:
Well, it’s not easy to be a leader or a manager, and that’s another thing. People think that, oh, they wanna be, you know, the a c suite or, you know, some kind of, like, sales manager. And, it’s not that easy, and sometimes it’s not that fun, especially in sales. If you’re really good in sales, sometimes you’re better in sales and you’re a terrible manager when you’re given that opportunity, and sometimes, salespeople are better managers than they are in sales. So, it’s also sometimes, it’s not that fun like, it takes away from your job. So it’s not all that it’s, cracked up to be, I would say. But for me, my current position as a female leader in my company, it’s it’s been great to be able to, to make a difference. So I’m over the renter’s division, which is a new product for us.

Valerie McGeHee [00:32:42]:
So we’ve been selling auto insurance for 25 years. So they brought me in to build this, build this product. So for me, it’s been so much fun of seeing what I can do with this product and trying to hit our goals, expanding into well, we’re eventually gonna be in all 50 states. But, as the owner and leader of this product, that’s completely different than, like, managing a bunch of people and, like, this has been, like, a journey. This has been fun to, like, learn different things. And also, I never did renter’s insurance before. I was working at a commercial insurance company, where that’s like people who have tons of money and are just insuring their assets because they want to. Here, you know, with auto and renters, insurance, people are have to, you either legally or, you know, for their auto or Practically.

Valerie McGeHee [00:33:40]:
Yeah. To their apartment. Yeah. So it’s very different. And, and so that’s been fun as a leader in this role, which is creating this business. And it’s very entrepreneurial. It’s very, very entrepreneurial.

James [00:33:56]:
That’s cool. That’s awesome. Yeah. How so tell me when you ended up in this position, I imagine how big is this company that you’re working for now?

Valerie McGeHee [00:34:06]:
So we are about a $400, 000, 000 company.

James [00:34:09]:
Okay. So that’s that’s healthy size.

Valerie McGeHee [00:34:12]:
Mhmm.

James [00:34:12]:
So I imagine and this is me not coming from a $400, 000, 000 company. Mhmm. I imagine when you’re working with or for a smaller company, you’re more nimble.

Valerie McGeHee [00:34:24]:
Yes.

James [00:34:24]:
Able to adapt where when you have a bigger company like that, that adds layers of management and and software systems and all that james, just layers, support that maybe a smaller company, it’s afterthought if it exists at all.

Valerie McGeHee [00:34:41]:
Mhmm.

James [00:34:42]:
Has that been a challenge knowing that you have this grower dime mentality and the atomic Grit, but sometimes you run into this business is, like, trying to turn the Titanic.

Valerie McGeHee [00:34:52]:
That’s so funny that you say that. So at the prior company I was at, it was an international company. I was not working at headquarters, but I was the VP of james. And it was a well oiled ship. And there was a, like, there was there were many departments and it was just like it was just running itself. Here, it’s a much smaller company, and the CIO is across is down the hall for me. The CEO is directly next door to me. Our chief legal counsel is on the other side of me.

Valerie McGeHee [00:35:27]:
And so I’m in the mix where if I need to get an answer or approval to do something, it’s right here. So I’m able to literally get up, walk over, and get approval. At a bigger company, it was much harder. You know, it’s you don’t see those people here. I’m seeing them every single day. We’re going out for drinks after work. It’s you know, you you get to know these people. So, the the although being in a leadership position, you’re also in charge of expense reports and p and l.

Valerie McGeHee [00:36:06]:
And in my in our situation, all the senior leaders here are getting phone calls from the owner of the company, maybe on a Saturday or Sunday morning at 6 AM, and you have to pick up that call.

James [00:36:17]:
Oh, interesting.

Valerie McGeHee [00:36:18]:
Yeah. And you have to know your numbers. And if you don’t know your numbers, it’s you’re gonna get tripped up and you feel really bad about yourself. And so you just have to be as a senior leader, you have to be on top of your game all the time. You have to know every part of your business in and out, and and it’s also a game of communication. You have to be able to communicate to, to agents, to associates, and there’s a completely different type of communication to senior leadership and and, you know, and those in, in the c suites. I

James [00:37:03]:
wanna interrupt you there for a second. A different type of communication. Can you elaborate on that a little bit?

Valerie McGeHee [00:37:09]:
So with the c suites, they wanna know data and numbers, and so it’s very quantitative. And when you’re speaking with agencies and associates, it’s more qualitative conversations. So, you’d be able to flip flop both around and know the know the lingo.

James [00:37:27]:
You know, it’s so interesting that you mentioned that because I was just chatting with another business owner yesterday yesterday for lunch. And we’re chatting about remote employees. All my employees are remote. Mhmm. And so I look at data. And data, it’s all numbers. Right? Yes. It’s all numbers and graphs and all this kind of stuff, but the people behind them are human.

James [00:37:47]:
Yes. And 1 of the challenges that I have is I had this employee come to me and she’s like, I feel like you’re treating us like numbers.

Valerie McGeHee [00:37:54]:
And I

James [00:37:55]:
was like, well, to a point, that’s all I have to go on. Yeah. Because we’re not in the same office. Right? We can’t go out for drinks because we’re thousands of miles apart from each other. Mhmm. At least 100. Yeah. And it’s just 1 of those, like, all I have to go by is data and essentially what you tell me.

Valerie McGeHee [00:38:11]:
Right.

James [00:38:11]:
So if you’re not telling me what you think I should know, I don’t know. Yeah. And I it’s it was a weird conversation because I was trying to figure out, well, how can I either treat them or even talk with them more like they’re human

Valerie McGeHee [00:38:26]:
Right?

James [00:38:27]:
When a lot of the times they’re trying to avoid even talking with the boss, Kenneth.

Valerie McGeHee [00:38:33]:
Yeah. Well, something that really impresses me about my colleagues on the senior leadership team is they’re all extremely data driven, but they are so great at telling stories and and explaining concepts. And, we have we actually we do work with Franklin Covey for their on their corporate level, but we have brought in some, presentation coaches to help us out. But, I I just feel like most of these guys, because they’re all guys, are, just just naturals. And, I from product development who, like, sets the insurance rates to our CEO who’s, like, numbers, numbers, numbers. They all have the skill of being amazing storytellers. And I feel like that because, you know, between the different departments and claims and stuff, we we all don’t know those departments as much as they do. So they even though we can understand data, they still have to interpret the data for us, you know, during our weekly executive meetings and share the stories and tell the stories.

Valerie McGeHee [00:39:46]:
And then then it makes a lot more sense. We ask questions. There’s a dialogue. And now we all understand the business, what’s going on.

James [00:39:55]:
Got it. Yeah. I wanna downshift a little bit and back up to something you said way in the beginning of this conversation that I wanted to dive dive into. You know, it’s the people that you chatted with for accountability.

Valerie McGeHee [00:40:07]:
Mhmm.

James [00:40:07]:
So how did you figure out who to choose? How did you reach out to them? How often did you chat with them? And and was it a 2 way accountability or was it just someone essentially checking to make sure that you did your stuff to keep up with your goals?

Valerie McGeHee [00:40:21]:
Are you talking about for my dissertation?

James [00:40:25]:
Yeah. You mentioned there was a guy, something like that that

Valerie McGeHee [00:40:28]:
Yeah. That Yeah. So ended up

James [00:40:30]:
being my husband. Guess.

Valerie McGeHee [00:40:32]:
So my husband ended up being my accountability partner. Oh, wow. Okay. So, and by the way, I met my husband on Bourbon Street.

James [00:40:43]:
Oh, nice. Alright. That’s a

Valerie McGeHee [00:40:44]:
fun story. He’s a he’s a professional piano player, and I was there to volunteer for Habitat for Humanity. Oh, there

James [00:40:52]:
you go. Manspreading in heaven here.

Valerie McGeHee [00:40:55]:
Yeah. Exactly. So, so my accountability partner for my dissertation was my husband. And so, he helped check-in on the, on the progress that way. But when I was doing these interviews, prior to getting my topic approved and I was I was interviewing other doctoral graduates, some of them became my accountability partners. Some of my former classmates became my accountability partners. Some who had finished, who I was taking classes with and had already finished would cheer me on. And so it was it became it got to a point where I would completely humiliate myself if I didn’t finish.

Valerie McGeHee [00:41:39]:
So I had to because so many people knew about it. I the

James [00:41:43]:
because when they would ask you about it, you didn’t wanna be like, yeah. No. I Didn’t do that

Valerie McGeHee [00:41:48]:
thing. Right. So prior to being committed to this, it would ruin my day, my week if somebody asked, oh, are you finished yet? And I’m like, not yet working on it.

James [00:42:00]:
Locusts. Terrible wood. Right?

Valerie McGeHee [00:42:03]:
Yeah. And they’re actually to be honest, there were some things that did prevent me from finishing. I remember that that was when we were using flash drives. Like, I lost my flash drive and it didn’t have it backed up. I’m like, oh, I guess I gotta start over. I had I didn’t have the best faculty support. My professor, was working at a university in China, and so when I would submit, he was a visiting professor over there. And so, happened to happen during my dissertation.

Valerie McGeHee [00:42:34]:
So by the time he did get back to me, it was like the end of the semester, and it was like 1 response. And I’m like, oh, like, I have to fix a whole chapter now? Like, the whole semester went by. But it was actually at 1 of the universities where I was teaching at part time. It was the the chairperson of the department who really guided me and helped me and and motivate me and was an accountability partner and give me some books to use for primary research and would give me some feedback. He ended up being on my, dissertation counsel. And, and so he was very involved in helping me finish it. And, interesting was that the day that I so my husband as a professional performer, he coached me for my actual dissertation defense. And so I had prepared for it.

Valerie McGeHee [00:43:33]:
I mean, it was memorized. This was like a 2 hour defense. Basically, the whole thing was memorized with slides and, I mean, he my husband helped me do, like, like, I would, like, put a pencil in my mouth and do the, you know, like, all those, like, vocal practices. And so I was so prepared for this defense, but I was already living in Louisiana, so I had to fly back up by myself. And, I mean, this was it. This was like the day that I have been working so hard for forever. And I remember walking into this room, and I just started with my presentation. And at the end, I had some questions.

Valerie McGeHee [00:44:23]:
They told me to step out as I know they always do for them to convene, and they brought me back in. And I’m standing in front of these academic giants who are determining my fate. And the head of my defense says, congratulations, doctor Mickey E. And Nice. My world just stopped. And it was like a slow motion. I was hearing doctor Mickey Hill, like, ah, like, it’s happening. And, I guess this is a segue to a future book that I wanna write, but I call it my halo of success moment where you it’s something that you wanted so bad that it’s an internal happiness where you could have, like, you know, your college graduation or a birthday party and you have a bunch of people there and everyone’s like, you know, hey, happy birthday and happy for you.

Valerie McGeHee [00:45:25]:
But there are moments in your life where maybe it’s like a job that you really wanted, where maybe you nailed an interview and you just feel, like, this glee, this this happiness where you can just, like, flow. And I I like to use the example of, you know, at the end of a movie where you see the guy, like, jumping and clicking his heels in the air, and he’s just, like, so happy. Like, that feeling of just this this ultimate level of success. You sometimes it lasts for a few minutes. Sometimes it lasts for a few days. I’m sure, like, I’m sure actor actors and actresses feel that way when they get, like, a really big part or when they get, like, paid really well. You know? Like, you’re just so happy. So I packed my stuff up, had to head back to the airport.

Valerie McGeHee [00:46:16]:
I told the person in the coffee shop that I just finished my I just defended my doctor, and I’m a doctor now. And person sitting next to me, I just wanted to talk to everybody. And this halo success is, like, it just makes you so happy. You just you’re just so sociable and you just want to be so friendly and next to everybody. So, it’s like, how do you get that more often? Like, how can you and so that’s why I want to do some more research on and maybe do some interviews on people who experienced that, maybe experienced Grit more often. But, man, that was an incredible feeling.

James [00:46:53]:
You know, it’s interesting that you mentioned that because I think of this I’m I’m not a doctor, but there was a car that I was working on. I put different I was mechanic way back when I put different engine in there, different manual transmission. I put all kinds of blood, sweat, and tears on this. I think there’s more knuckle skin in that car than it is on my hands. Anyways, I remember going on this on ramp, and I actually shifted gears and I got rubber out of 2nd gear when I was going, I don’t know, 50, 60 miles an hour. And I’m like, that moment, it was so brief. Right? Fraction of a second. Yep.

James [00:47:27]:
And I remember thinking, what had to happen for that to happen?

Valerie McGeHee [00:47:32]:
Yeah.

James [00:47:32]:
And all the stuff years and money and time and just stuff that didn’t get done.

Valerie McGeHee [00:47:38]:
What you wanted.

James [00:47:40]:
Yeah. Opportunity costs. And that was it. And it was like all that funneled into that fraction of a second.

Valerie McGeHee [00:47:46]:
Yeah. Yeah. And I

James [00:47:47]:
think, like, you in that room, you almost wanna go back the next day and be like, hey. Can you say that same thing again just so I can feel that again?

Valerie McGeHee [00:47:53]:
Yeah. But it won’t be the same. It won’t be the same.

James [00:47:55]:
It’s like people stop, like time.

Valerie McGeHee [00:47:56]:
Like, a really great vacation experience that they try to go back to that same place, but they can’t get that moving back. Yeah. It’s you just can’t remake it. So, yeah, it’s, it’s

James [00:48:08]:
What did you call it? Halo moments?

Valerie McGeHee [00:48:10]:
Halo of success.

James [00:48:12]:
Halo of success. I love it. Yeah. I love it. That is cool.

Valerie McGeHee [00:48:15]:
Yeah. Well,

James [00:48:16]:
we’ll be looking forward to that new book Yeah. When it comes out. Soon. Tell me just really quickly as far as the book goes with sales and all that jazz, that’s a whole different world Yep. Than the typical business school living the life world.

Valerie McGeHee [00:48:32]:
Yeah. Yeah.

James [00:48:33]:
Is this something where you just the book is out there and it’s out there, or have you been pushing marketing and stuff like that in book in the

Valerie McGeHee [00:48:40]:
book that

James [00:48:40]:
is kinda getting out there?

Valerie McGeHee [00:48:41]:
Right. So, well, it’s available on amazon.com. And, I did, I did a book launch in Lafayette, Louisiana in March. We had a great turnout. Sold out of books, and, the plan is to do another book, another launch in Atlanta. I’ve been traveling for work almost every week, and, which has been fun but exhausting. And, yeah, we’re gonna plan a book launch in Atlanta probably in the next month and a half. Okay.

Valerie McGeHee [00:49:21]:
And then also, you know, speaking engagements that I’ve been attending and, yeah, keeping busy. So That

James [00:49:29]:
is good. Never bored. Right?

Valerie McGeHee [00:49:31]:
No. No.

James [00:49:33]:
That is awesome. Well, Valerie, thank you so much for being on the show.

Valerie McGeHee [00:49:37]:
Thanks for having me. This was so much fun.

James [00:49:39]:
Yeah. Tell me, where can people find you on the Internet?

Valerie McGeHee [00:49:42]:
So, you can definitely find me on Instagram. My handle is valeriemckeehPhD, and I’m always posting fun things on there about my life and where I am and all my travels and my speaking engagements. I’m also on LinkedIn, same thing, Valerie McGeHee, PhD. And, you could buy my book on on Amazon.

James [00:50:03]:
Awesome. Valerie, thank you so much for being on the show. I’m excited to check this thing out and you got the halo thing. You really have me thinking about that 1. That is awesome. This has been Authentic Business Adventures, the business program that brings you the struggle stories and triumphs and successes of business owners across the land, locally underwritten by the Bank of Sun Prairie. If you’re listening or watching this on the web, if you could do us a huge favor, keep the AI algorithms happy, give it the big old thumbs up, subscribe, and, of course, share it with your entrepreneurial friends, especially those that either have grit or could use a little kick so that they get a little more grit as far as goal setting and all that jazz goes. We’d like to thank you, our wonderful listeners, as well as our guest, Valerie McGehee, author of Atomic Grit, and I should say Doctor Valerie.

James [00:50:53]:
Right?

Valerie McGeHee [00:50:53]:
That’s right.

James [00:50:54]:
That doesn’t hurt at all to say.

Valerie McGeHee [00:50:55]:
I worked hard for that title. Yeah.

James [00:50:59]:
Past episodes can be found morning, noon, and night at the podcast link found at drawincustomers.com. Thank you for listening. We will see you next week. I want you to stay awesome. And if you do nothing else, enjoy your business.