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Arjun Sen – ZenMango
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You have found Authentic Business
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Adventures, the business program that brings
you the struggles,
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stories and triumphant successes
of business owners across the land.
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Past episodes of the Authentic Business
Adventures Program can be found on
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the podcast link and DrawInCustomers.com
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We are locally
underwritten by the Bank of Sun Prairie.
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My name is James Kademan, entrepreneur,
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author, speaker and helpful coach to small
business owners across the country.
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Today we are welcoming/preparing
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to learn from Arjun Sen,
the founder and CEO of ZenMango.
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Arjun, how are you doing today?
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I’m doing great and truly
a pleasure to be on your podcast.
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And the two words I really like,
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especially I like authentic,
but more important, I like that adventure.
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So to me, life has to be an adventure.
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And that’s the spirit,
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because what I heard about your podcast,
that one word really put me on the spot.
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That is the name of the game.
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And I would love to say that I can take
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credit for that, but I can’t. Actually way
back when when I first started this thing,
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I had another guy that was with me and we
would well, the plan was that we would
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both interview guests and just have
a few different perspectives.
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He flaked.
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So he left us with a good name, though.
So that’s good.
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That’s super good.
And I’m glad you continued the journey.
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So. You know, it’s so much fun.
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You get to meet cool people like you.
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And I learn I’ve learned a ton of stuff,
tons of little tidbits.
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I’ve learned about some great books
that I would have never known existed.
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I learned about businesses.
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I mean, even with
ZenMango what you have going on,
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I would have never known that that was
a thing or that what you do is a thing.
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So it’s a learning experience as much
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for me as for my listeners,
at least I hope for my listeners.
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Absolutely it is.
Yeah.
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So tell us then, ZenMango,
what is ZenMango?
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Let’s start there.
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So ZenMango.
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You know, it started
when I was in the corporate world.
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I was running marketing
and operations for Papa John’s.
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And day after 9/11,
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I realized I was failing in the biggest
job of life, which is being a dad.
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My daughter was eight.
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And, you know, you and I both have 24
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hours in a day, which means we need a lot
of discipline on how we use the time.
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And I was just putting all the hours
in my work life to move ahead.
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And then I realized I was
a corporate corporate workaholic.
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I feel let me do one thing right.
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So I quit and consulting started as
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what can I do from home
to be a dad? Like those days,
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if you asked me to do anything,
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I would have done it. Like
my first project was doing
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some sales graphs
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for a burrito chain
who happened to be Chipotle.
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OK, can you do but can you do sales graphs?
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Oh yeah absolutely.
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And I remember those twelve hundred
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dollars was the best twelve
hundred dollars ever.
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So that’s the way that ZenMango evolved.
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So today, the core of ZenMango is
that we are all in the feeling business
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and you and I are feeling human beings
like human beings have feelings.
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And that’s the part where I think
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for a second is the reason I got excited
about the podcast was
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you spent time talking to me before you
took me through your passion and vision.
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And I came here
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excited to talk to this amazing human
being who takes time out of day
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not to create more value for himself,
but value for the rest of us.
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OK.
And that, to me, made me feel good.
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So to me, I really think it’s all about
the feelings because
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in India there’s this amazing song where I
come from in the city of West Bengal,
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where it says that if you paraphrase if
you write your name on a piece of paper,
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you know, it will tear
the writing on a rocket will fade.
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But if you put it on the heart,
it stays forever.
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And that’s the reason I really think
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in limited budget,
everything is all about feelings.
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And we live by eight words.
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Be human.
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All right. Think human.
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All right. That makes you feel human
and then act human.
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All right.
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And that’s what matters,
because you don’t have to be perfect,
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because we are all human beings,
human beings, our imperfections that make
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it because my daughter reminds me that
my left and right eye don’t match.
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I’m like, wow, I’m not even
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biologically symmetric.
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So we are different.
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And I really think being
human is so important.
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So tell me, so the common
denominator there is human.
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Mm hmm.
So can you go through those individually?
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Let’s talk about be human.
Right.
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That’s the essentially making mistakes
and learning from them, is that right?
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Yeah.
And I think that’s the part where we just
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really need to understand and put each
other in each other’s situations.
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I’ll give a very simple example was
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I was traveling to Phoenix and next
morning I had a flight at 6:00 a.m..
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So I booked myself at a hotel close
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to the airport and I just had one rule,
Arjun, 3:30,
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get yourself out of bed and in the shower.
If I could do that
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rest is auto pilot.
Sure.
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So I did that, but once I got myself
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in the shower, I realized there was a
little sticker on top of the shower knob.
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Which says turn the knob left and the lever
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right,
and I realized that at 3:30 that if I need
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instructions to turn a shower on,
this is no ordinary shower, I try it.
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And after five minutes I gave up.
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I call the front desk and the kiddo
who was there was brilliant.
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And she said, you know,
I’ll just pull it hard.
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It won’t break it and then turn
it right and see what happened.
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Then it worked.
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So when I finally got to the airport,
I was sitting on the plane, I realized,
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let’s say you are the boss,
I work for you.
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You and I both know there’s a problem.
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You, Sergeant, fix it out.
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It goes and finds.
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water-Resistant sticker,
that’s not easy to find.
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And I put it out there.
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But I never stayed in the hotel to
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see what happens at 4:00 a.m.,
3:00 a.m. in the morning
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if I cannot make a shower work,
I felt stupid, right?
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So the customer experience is just
like to me, think for a second.
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When was the last time you and I love
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to go back to a business which makes
us feel not good, a little stupid.
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And I just felt that’s the part where we
come and put yourself in the other
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person’s positions is very important
because that is the core to start with.
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Fair, very fair, yeah, that’s
it’s interesting how often I run
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into business owners
that have never actually gone through
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the journey that a customer would go
through with their product or service.
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They just they never even thought about it
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or and they never I shouldn’t say
that they didn’t think about it.
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I’m sure that they have thought about it,
but they thought about it through their
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eyes, not necessarily
agreeing consumer or someone that’s not
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not aware of how things work.
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And my most amazing boss played host
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who just retired as chairman of Panaro
when I was working at Papa John’s.
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He always told me that every week I would
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I need you to leave the office
and be a customer to our brand.
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And be a customer to two to three
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competitive brands
and then be a customer to any other brand
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because it’s one big connected world
and unless you feel where the shoe hurts.
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You don’t come up with that solution,
you come up with the sticker on the shower
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solution, which, you know,
you can fire me, I did something.
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I said I saw it.
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I spent company money, expensed it.
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So but the origin,
the customer still did not feel good.
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That’s what matters.
Mm hmm.
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Yeah, that’s huge.
That’s huge.
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I used to have this thing.
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I think I still do have this thing
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on my website deep in there somewhere
called Easy as Pie.
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And the idea is that we
might call answering service would
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essentially call a business and whatever
business you told us to call
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and just let’s you know,
gives you a report on how easy it was to do
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business with you.
Because the rule that we have is confused.
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customers don’t buy.
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And so if it’s confusing or if it’s
difficult to do business with you,
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it’s probably going to be
missing out on some opportunity.
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I love that.
I love that.
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We take for a second
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how many times you and I walk
into a retail place or a restaurant
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and we do not know once we
take a first step where to go.
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This is just like if you came to my place
with your family for,
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you know, an evening out
and you came in and you have no clue what
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to do, like you don’t know to go
very soon, you make a U-turn and you leave
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by saying you don’t like you
have to see yourself there.
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You see, you belong there.
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You are welcome there.
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You are comfortable there
because that is very important.
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It’s like a date if the date
starts by being uncomfortable.
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And I love what you just talked about is
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that whole being making it easy to work
if the date starts with.
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If I was single and let’s say my wife is
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sitting across, we are still single
and she looks at the first five seconds,
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what the heck am I doing
with the goofball?
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Of course, you get the fake phone
call and say, I have to go.
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The world needs me.
You know, I need to save the planet.
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I’m like, surely, you know?
I know.
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And that’s what I think is
I think you are on that.
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That’s huge.
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So is the idea of a Zen manual that you
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help people with that, that you walk
through that process with them?
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Yes.
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So I help them connect
to the customer feeling.
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Some of it is what everybody
does is we try to find 14.
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but you know what happens is.
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There are three parts
to seeing the pinpoint.
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Most of us get very excited when you see
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the pain point, but I really push
people by saying pause right there.
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Seeing beyond is the first
and the most important step because.
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What you saw and you are putting on your
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website with that question is what most of
us don’t see and that makes you special.
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One of one seeing beyond
is where you get rewarded.
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And if you don’t see beyond that the very
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beginning, you get into tunnel vision,
you solve the problem that happens, OK,
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if your faucet is leaking,
I can send you a faucet.
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But that doesn’t solve you need the water
leak to stop
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and water to flow from the faucet,
to me, taking a solution doesn’t work.
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So the second thing then we go
through is what you see beyond.
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Is don’t just offer an experience
or solution, take it all the way.
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To make the person feel good,
like if I worked as an electrician,
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my job is to make things not happen.
Right.
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I come home and do things and I clean
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and leave late to the point where if
it’s your home, your family comes back.
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What happened?
Nothing.
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I was just there because nobody needs
to know about the drama of what happened.
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Like, that’s it.
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You feel good that you
solved the problem yourself.
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And that’s the part where
that feeling is so important.
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That’s the reason why even in today’s
world, you know,
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if I walk in with the shoe cover, mask on,
gloves on and everything else,
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and before I leave,
anything else I can clean?
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Can I take the trash out or anything?
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I’m going to the trash anyway.
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Makes you feel good that I
was a good friend, right?
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Absolutely.
I know the part is which is very critical.
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Most of us, even when we get an idea,
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we jump, but pause if you pause again and
just push the idea and make it bigger.
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Because a bigger idea,
the rewards are exponentially huge.
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Mm hmm.
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And that’s the part where,
you know, recently.
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I was going for a Face-To-Face
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presentation for the first time and I
realized the back of my hair needed
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a little backdrop and, you know,
so I just do my own haircut now.
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I was I put some color in.
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And then I dozed off,
and when I woke up literally this side
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of the face, I felt like I was
in Phantom of the Opera, OK?
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And I literally wrote a blog
about I couldn’t show my face,
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so I tried nail polish remover.
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It doesn’t work that nobody
should ever try that.
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It burns, but nothing happens.
[00:12:58]
I called the store, sells beauty store.
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Samantha picks up the phone
and she knew my problem.
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She said, come over, I had the solution.
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I’m like, OK, I go there,
still not believing her.
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I walk in, of course,
with my face recognition and the bozo
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she had ready for me the product and says
before you buy I a few samples,
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go to that corner and use
that mirror and see if it works.
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I go there, I put it on and it work nice.
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I tried like it was beautiful.
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I think if she stopped right there,
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it was, well, what Samantha being super
Samantha, super soft and stop their.
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Then she said, and, sir,
there’s this extra thing, this is a very.
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Nice smelling good for your skin,
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it’ll just, you know, the rash and
irritation that happen, it’ll go away.
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Just use this.
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Of course, now I trust her,
I put this on and I just felt amazing.
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And that extra step now for a second
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uninstalled was six dollars,
ninety nine cents.
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Wow, what was six dollars?
Ninety nine cents.
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She’d give me 25 cents a free product.
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So much attention.
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I felt special, like this was
the first time I come back to the car.
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I have never, ever used the mirror,
which is on top.
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I even built a mirror down,
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looked at my face, looked to make sure,
wow, you look great, man.
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But that’s what making that idea
because it is in your heart forever.
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And every time I get a chance,
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I shamelessly talk about
these guys because.
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No friend of origin or
you should go anywhere.
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And not get treated,
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this this was like a royal treatment,
and that’s the bigger, the bigger.
[00:14:47]
Yeah, it’s interesting,
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I was having a conversation with someone a
couple months ago about how we feel that
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that customer service has just
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been slowly dwindling,
I just the thought of treating a customer
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well or just doing things that we probably
consider common sense,
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you just look around and you think,
what in the world, why is this not being
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taken care of or why is this stuff
either being forgotten or presented weird
[00:15:19]
or just the dialogue that you
happen to have with some people?
[00:15:23]
Just getting a thank you
or have a nice day kind of thing.
[00:15:28]
Kind of seems to be in some cases,
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a thing of the past
that we are becoming efficient.
[00:15:35]
And that’s the part where, you know,
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let me put you in a real life situation,
you and I are best friends.
[00:15:40]
We grew up together.
[00:15:40]
You texted me by saying, Arjun,
I need help.
[00:15:44]
Can you call me?
[00:15:45]
If I tell you that, I’ll put you
on a call back and I’ll call you.
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When it’s your turn,
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that’s stuff, that’s not a good
conversation with them, no.
[00:16:01]
So this is what happened to me this
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weekend where we will tell you
that your call is very important.
[00:16:05]
All right.
I know.
[00:16:06]
I know.
[00:16:06]
So this what happened to me this
weekend is I’m not very tech savvy.
[00:16:09]
And all of a sudden in all my home alarm,
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everything that had put in
this started malfunctioning.
[00:16:15]
I started getting alarms, everything else.
[00:16:18]
So these guys, I thought I called them,
so they told me I’m number one seventy
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eight and they’ll call me back and
sometimes the call takes till next week.
[00:16:28]
Wow, I cannot wait like that.
[00:16:31]
OK.
[00:16:32]
And finally, when they finally called me
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and I’m just looking at by saying I don’t
want to miss this call because, you know.
[00:16:38]
So this guy told me that he
need to change the batteries.
[00:16:41]
I’m like, OK, I’ll change
the batteries already.
[00:16:43]
He said, oh, it still didn’t work.
I said, no.
[00:16:45]
He said he wants to work cheap batteries.
[00:16:47]
This and no, I didn’t buy batteries.
[00:16:48]
Like, I I’m just getting defensive.
[00:16:50]
Like, my wife’s right there.
[00:16:51]
She’s like, oh, do what you
said, you stay out of it.
[00:16:54]
Used to think it was a kiosk.
[00:16:57]
So finally, I had enough.
[00:16:58]
OK, I go to a different company,
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buy this stuff and not next day know
I want to disconnect the services.
[00:17:05]
So the person who was there tells me,
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so you still have to pay for one month
because we have a contract, says, OK.
[00:17:11]
But, you know, I went to a very bad day
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yesterday and I was a customer
with for five years.
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Shouldn’t you just forget
the forty five dollars Cheslow?
[00:17:20]
I can’t.
[00:17:21]
I said no in the contract was that will
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call me back like in three hours
later that you added so discloser.
[00:17:27]
And finally I just played the card because
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I still believe in that
customer is all powerful.
[00:17:32]
And I just say, can I
talk to a supervisor?
[00:17:34]
And she says, I am the supervisor.
[00:17:37]
I’ve said, are you the CEO of the company?
She said, no.
[00:17:39]
I said, OK, can I talk to somebody else?
[00:17:42]
Because I just have this urge to share.
[00:17:45]
She said, yes, you can, but.
I can assure you,
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most probably nobody will call you back
because this complaint of yours is not
[00:17:52]
worth resolving because
you’re leaving anyway.
[00:17:57]
I just like I just said, you know,
thank you, because in my whole life
[00:18:01]
of customer experience, I have never felt
this kind of disregard ever.
[00:18:08]
I even asked her, like,
[00:18:09]
would you be able to talk to me like this
if this happened, let’s say at a retail
[00:18:13]
store, customer service where three
other people are standing around?
[00:18:17]
You wouldn’t.
[00:18:18]
Like the very fact we are having the one
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on one conversations,
that’s the reason this callback,
[00:18:25]
they think as your best friend, you say,
Ogen, I pick up, drop everything and call
[00:18:30]
you buddy now because I
didn’t mean on your terms.
[00:18:34]
Right.
Not I’ll call you this week.
[00:18:36]
Maybe next week like that doesn’t work.
[00:18:38]
And then if you are unhappy,
come on, 40 dollars.
[00:18:42]
That’s all it took.
Or even they could have said nicely.
[00:18:44]
I’m so sorry.
I can do it, you know.
[00:18:47]
Fine.
Good for you, have a good day,
[00:18:49]
but that’s the part where you really
nail that we are becoming more.
[00:18:53]
About efficient.
[00:18:56]
But not understanding what it
feels to be on the other side.
[00:19:01]
Yeah, it’s interesting because I don’t
a lot of the times that I run
[00:19:04]
into businesses that have
what I would consider to be
[00:19:08]
less than we’ll call it,
even remotely good customer service,
[00:19:13]
I don’t really think
they’re that efficient.
[00:19:16]
I think maybe they’re cheap.
[00:19:20]
So maybe they’re hiring a little bit
[00:19:21]
of the B team and they’re not giving
that many training of any kind.
[00:19:28]
And so you’re hiring people
that maybe just don’t get it.
[00:19:31]
The customer service thing.
[00:19:33]
And then you’re not
training them to get it?
[00:19:35]
Mm hmm.
[00:19:35]
And then the result is
frustrated customers
[00:19:40]
and arguably frustrated employees that I
imagine there’s a lot of turnover.
[00:19:45]
Yeah.
And to me, I think, you know,
[00:19:47]
the example, the way you broke
it down, I really love that.
[00:19:50]
And this really helps me understand
[00:19:53]
that it’s a step beyond because if I was
the founder and owner of the company.
[00:20:00]
And if I it’s the visionary and the leader
defines why we exist in the business.
[00:20:07]
And to me, if.
[00:20:09]
Customers leaving with a wall is not
[00:20:12]
important because of that, as you said,
I’m not hiring the right people,
[00:20:16]
I’m not creating the right,
you know, the right way.
[00:20:18]
I’m not lining them to what
is their empowering them.
[00:20:22]
That becomes the huge challenge.
[00:20:24]
And that’s the partner with any business.
[00:20:26]
You start also by asking
who your customer is.
[00:20:32]
Why are you there, because you have to be
one of one like
[00:20:35]
you can survive in this business world
by being another service provider.
[00:20:41]
It has to be a niche where you are
the only person who offers that right.
[00:20:46]
Otherwise, you become a commodity.
Commodity.
[00:20:48]
Absolutely.
Yeah.
[00:20:49]
People go for save 20 cents.
Yeah.
[00:20:52]
And you’re gone.
And finally, the thing is,
[00:20:55]
we must all have this very clear picture
of what every customer gets every time.
[00:21:01]
And when they leave what they feel like
[00:21:05]
going back to again, I can’t
talk enough about Samantha is.
[00:21:10]
Some anywhere else I would have left
[00:21:13]
with a product, which I would
have thought it worked.
[00:21:17]
Samantha made sure I left
with the product that I know works
[00:21:23]
and I got it from a person,
I use the word not lightly.
[00:21:27]
I was fortunate, lucky and blessed.
[00:21:30]
To connect with Samantha and again,
most early in life,
[00:21:34]
I would not see her ever again,
I wish her the very best and everything
[00:21:37]
in life,
but that interaction was purposeful
[00:21:41]
and brilliant and wow that I think
I cannot stop talking about her.
[00:21:45]
I spent six ninety nine.
[00:21:49]
She’s got to raise your price.
[00:21:51]
I’m telling you, she needs to charge
more for the smile she has given me, so.
[00:21:57]
Yeah, especially a guy comes in there
[00:21:59]
with a bunch of stuff on his face,
you can fix this problem.
[00:22:02]
He’s not shopping around.
[00:22:04]
Yeah.
[00:22:06]
And to me, I think this is huge,
[00:22:07]
like when we were buying our car,
we bought a car for the goofiest reasons.
[00:22:13]
Oh.
[00:22:15]
So my wife and myself with a little dog,
Yuki, we had gone to different dealership,
[00:22:19]
blah, blah, blah,
everywhere is a bait and switch.
[00:22:23]
Tell us about, you know,
[00:22:24]
we were looking for a one to two year used
car with a low mileage everywhere to go.
[00:22:28]
It’s like, yeah, we had
the car just got sold out.
[00:22:30]
So I’m like, OK,
[00:22:32]
so finally we’re tired and we stop
[00:22:34]
at the last dealership
literally close to our house.
[00:22:37]
And I’m just sitting there and they just
had the car, which, you know,
[00:22:41]
they told me they would have,
which was a surprise,
[00:22:44]
and all of a sudden my wife,
who is sitting at the lobby of the lounge,
[00:22:49]
takes me by saying,
you need to come here right now.
[00:22:51]
Are you OK?
She said, here, come home right now.
[00:22:54]
I go there and see the service manager
[00:22:58]
has brought a bottled water,
chilled and iced
[00:23:03]
another doggy ball and was put
in the water for our little dog, Yuki.
[00:23:09]
Oh, nice.
OK.
[00:23:11]
And I have to take a picture and I just
felt for somebody who sees
[00:23:16]
and feels this way,
not only is my wife a bottle of water,
[00:23:22]
I don’t think our dog Yuki’s
ever had a bottled water.
[00:23:25]
OK, so this was the worst in his life.
[00:23:28]
But that level of feeling made me realize
[00:23:30]
when these guys have that kind
of a heart and a feeling.
[00:23:35]
This is the person I want to do business
with, so it’s not just six ninety nine,
[00:23:39]
you know, this is of 30,
40 thousand dollar car.
[00:23:42]
Sure.
But it’s in both those cases,
[00:23:45]
it’s all about feeling like it’s feelings
are so important for us human beings.
[00:23:51]
And that’s the part I just want to show.
[00:23:52]
That is just what it doesn’t
matter how much you spend.
[00:23:55]
Feelings are always important.
That’s fair.
[00:23:59]
That’s totally fair.
Let’s dip into the think human part,
[00:24:02]
because I was I was kind
of mulling that in my head.
[00:24:07]
What does it mean to think human?
[00:24:10]
Think human to me is.
[00:24:13]
If you have a challenge.
[00:24:16]
You come to me because.
[00:24:18]
You expecting me to solve the problem?
[00:24:21]
OK, so not only do I put in that position,
but I also start thinking what exactly?
[00:24:28]
Do you need
[00:24:30]
this in this particular case?
[00:24:32]
Samantha started feeling by saying this
[00:24:34]
guy will come in,
he talked about a presentation.
[00:24:37]
I need to show him
that this search stops here.
[00:24:41]
He doesn’t have to go to five other stores
[00:24:42]
because most probably would have gone
to other stores by three other products.
[00:24:46]
See which one works.
[00:24:48]
And of course,
the interaction and the allergies would
[00:24:50]
have just, you know,
made my other side of the face too bad.
[00:24:55]
But that’s what she taught.
[00:24:58]
For me.
[00:25:00]
And took the problem to beyond a solution
[00:25:05]
and that connects to the third one
is feel human,
[00:25:10]
because then she started looking at is
what should I feel when our needs?
[00:25:15]
Because she could have been a great sales
person and told me, this is the best,
[00:25:18]
this is my favorite, blah,
blah, blah, everything else.
[00:25:21]
No, she showed me.
[00:25:23]
She proved to me it works.
[00:25:25]
And then she gave me the extra soothing
think, oh, I still can feel it.
[00:25:30]
It was perhaps like that feeling of I even
[00:25:34]
told a girl, you are a she said,
Arjun, you know.
[00:25:38]
She had a smile.
I said, I love the absolute love that I
[00:25:41]
can start to tell my wife
about you and how amazing you are.
[00:25:45]
And I think that thinking for me.
[00:25:48]
And finally, feeling that as my best
friend, where do you want to take me once
[00:25:52]
those to happen,
then you act and it’s so easy.
[00:25:58]
Nice.
[00:25:58]
I like that, I like that,
and that takes us to the act human part.
[00:26:03]
Hmm.
There’s some.
[00:26:05]
There’s some humans that are acting
in different ways, so how do you mean it?
[00:26:11]
So to me, I just think
that’s the part where
[00:26:15]
that’s the part that part
goes beyond business.
[00:26:18]
OK, that’s the part.
[00:26:19]
It’s about simple courtesy.
[00:26:22]
It goes back to the golden rule,
how we like to be addressed.
[00:26:31]
The most important thing, again,
there is pausing for each other.
[00:26:35]
OK, so today when we start the podcast,
just to make me feel comfortable,
[00:26:40]
you took extra time five to 10
minutes before you were here.
[00:26:44]
OK, you paused for me.
[00:26:49]
That’s just it’s just like if you invited
me over to your place with our families
[00:26:55]
to come over, you would have taken time
to get ready and collect that extra time.
[00:27:00]
Posing for me is very important.
[00:27:03]
You order to retail or a restaurant
or a hospitality somewhere.
[00:27:06]
The manager comes in and says,
how are things?
[00:27:08]
Everything OK?
[00:27:10]
Most of the time these are
like California stocks.
[00:27:12]
They don’t even stop for you.
[00:27:14]
It’s like the person
goes like, Are you OK?
[00:27:19]
Wait, wait, wait, wait.
[00:27:22]
When you ask your friend,
[00:27:24]
are you all of a sudden meet you
in the grocery store, I start.
[00:27:27]
I look at you eye contact.
[00:27:30]
Hey, how are you?
[00:27:31]
And we sleep OK, kids, OK, this OK?
[00:27:35]
I ask not to check a box.
[00:27:37]
I asked not to come back and tell
my wife I met my friend.
[00:27:40]
I asked how is my wife’s
like how they do it.
[00:27:43]
I don’t know.
[00:27:44]
I just asked him
and he answered, fine, fine.
[00:27:49]
What is it?
[00:27:49]
OK, if there was anything wrong,
he would have told you.
[00:27:52]
But that’s this lack of caring that
on the other side I would have come back
[00:27:56]
and right away said, you know,
not only that their son is now doing this
[00:28:00]
and you need to talk to his wife
and also both of them,
[00:28:03]
like they are doing this new
refinishing on their dining table.
[00:28:06]
They’re so excited we should go.
[00:28:08]
Yes, because I care.
[00:28:10]
And that’s the human part is delivering
has to be done at a human level.
[00:28:17]
You know, the example I gave you
of the alarm company, everything else.
[00:28:23]
I’m not telling them how to do business,
but a very simple things are
[00:28:28]
even when you say no, I understand no
means no, they are running a business.
[00:28:34]
But don’t make me feel bad about not
[00:28:37]
make me part of you, you know,
and you’re a reasonable human beings.
[00:28:42]
That’s the that’s the core is that be
[00:28:44]
reasonable with me because once
you get that stubborn Arjun out.
[00:28:51]
You triggered it.
[00:28:52]
I want to be understanding the customer
[00:28:55]
always wants to be understanding,
and that’s the part where being human,
[00:28:59]
if you act human, the customer also
treats you like a human acting.
[00:29:05]
You’re at a restaurant and they forgot
to bring you something you ordered
[00:29:10]
a few minutes later,
[00:29:11]
the manager comes running by saying,
hey, I’m so sorry, you forgot.
[00:29:16]
Not only that, we give you a full portion.
[00:29:18]
And if it’s OK with you and we get free
dessert, you choose for the people
[00:29:23]
you know, you right away said,
no, you don’t have to.
[00:29:26]
But that’s a good you didn’t have to.
[00:29:29]
And that’s what human beings do.
[00:29:33]
Yeah, I like to think that it’s
very interesting, it’s a.
[00:29:37]
It’s a good observation.
[00:29:40]
It seems like there’s that’s a lost art
to a lot of people
[00:29:46]
I mention even sometimes myself,
you just get so in the zone.
[00:29:50]
He has so many plates that you’re spinning
[00:29:52]
as sometimes I imagine I’ve probably taken
customers for granted, not intentionally,
[00:29:59]
but just throw an email that says,
hey, how’s it going?
[00:30:03]
And if I don’t hear a response,
[00:30:04]
I just assume everything’s
well without any follow up.
[00:30:08]
That it would be interesting to just say,
hey, I guess without being creepy right
[00:30:15]
here, I heard from you,
how are things going?
[00:30:18]
And I think that’s the part where
boundaries are very important because,
[00:30:21]
you know, just like if I was
single and I was dating my wife,
[00:30:26]
I can just send her one message.
[00:30:27]
And if she doesn’t respond,
maybe one more.
[00:30:30]
But that’s it.
Sure.
[00:30:31]
And then I should have got
the answer by saying, you know.
[00:30:35]
She doesn’t like me, but right here
[00:30:37]
she’s at the side of the fence,
if only she saw this side
[00:30:41]
the way Samantha helped me help me.
[00:30:43]
So
[00:30:44]
it’s all over the seat.
[00:30:47]
But, you know, I work I work with some
sports personalities, too, in branding.
[00:30:52]
And one of the top golfers
one time taught me.
[00:30:55]
That in life, it’s all
about that one thing.
[00:31:00]
That you need to focus on at this instant.
[00:31:04]
So this incident for both of us,
[00:31:06]
we have turned our phone off everything
because this is all that matters.
[00:31:11]
He explained to me that when he walks,
he feels every part of the grass.
[00:31:17]
When choose.
[00:31:21]
He choose the government,
that’s all he does, he feels like, oh.
[00:31:26]
Wow.
[00:31:28]
When he sees the ball in the line,
for a part, that’s all he sees
[00:31:33]
when he sees a target,
he sees everything to the point.
[00:31:36]
He says, OK, not the least bit bigger
or the grass gets bigger.
[00:31:40]
The target.
[00:31:42]
And that’s the power of focusing
on that one thing at any point of time,
[00:31:47]
because I think for a second, if you and I
both worked as baristas at a Starbucks.
[00:31:54]
It’s not an easy job because on a given
[00:31:57]
day, I don’t know, maybe fourteen hundred,
you and I each make 14 so far.
[00:32:00]
Fourteen hundred people together.
[00:32:03]
That’s surreal to me, that blows my mind,
[00:32:05]
but on the other side,
if Arjun comes as a customer.
[00:32:09]
I only will come to Starbucks
only once today.
[00:32:13]
With that white cop, with the green logo,
an obscene amount of money and feel good.
[00:32:19]
So to me,
from the employer’s point of view,
[00:32:22]
I totally understand
that it is one of many,
[00:32:25]
but to understand from the customer’s
[00:32:27]
point of view, it’s one of one
that if my let’s say I’m allergic
[00:32:34]
and I cannot have milk,
I need to have, you know.
[00:32:39]
Almond milk.
[00:32:41]
If you don’t if you make the mistake
[00:32:43]
and the problem that happens,
I understand you’re still at 99 percent,
[00:32:48]
but for me, 100 percent
of my orders failed today.
[00:32:53]
So that’s the whole part of, you know,
[00:32:55]
we put that, you know, just push brands
is one customer at a time.
[00:33:01]
That’s the way you build your business.
[00:33:05]
You know, most of us that’s so it’s like
to me it’s all about, wow,
[00:33:08]
that one person falls for that
person when you’re in front.
[00:33:11]
I even talked to some
amazing hospitality brands.
[00:33:15]
This is what to do if you and I are having
[00:33:17]
a conversation,
the general manager,
[00:33:19]
instead of just walking past religious
parties and once he has eye contact
[00:33:24]
with you, he’ll talk to you
and smile through the eyes.
[00:33:27]
Oh, interesting.
[00:33:28]
And as he talks to you,
he will never lose eye contact with you.
[00:33:33]
All right.
This last part really was well.
[00:33:37]
When he makes his exit visualize,
he makes his exit over your shoulder.
[00:33:42]
That means he walks past you.
[00:33:44]
He doesn’t turn and show his backside.
[00:33:47]
Oh, he is a showman.
I know.
[00:33:50]
I just was like even.
[00:33:52]
So to me, I’m not a psychiatrist
[00:33:56]
or psychologist,
so I don’t know how it works.
[00:34:00]
But what I felt if somebody
goes into that much care.
[00:34:05]
Right.
It makes me think, what else is this guy
[00:34:07]
doing great acts, the kind of person
takes service to that level.
[00:34:14]
Even like.
[00:34:16]
That’s where you could vote over and over
again, because that’s the level it’s
[00:34:20]
the flip side of what you
and I were talking earlier.
[00:34:23]
These are people who care to that level.
[00:34:29]
Mm hmm.
Yes, interesting man,
[00:34:31]
the little things that you can do that
really, what does it take for him to go?
[00:34:36]
Let’s just say to your left,
[00:34:37]
right past you that waitress’s
instead of showing the backside.
[00:34:41]
So, yeah, I mean, it’s a steps
[00:34:45]
mArjunal at best for what he has to do.
[00:34:49]
But the value to it
of what it gives you from an emotional
[00:34:53]
point of view is
on the verge of priceless.
[00:34:56]
Right.
Ultimately, I’ll give you another example.
[00:34:59]
This is, you know,
like any time I go to a grocery store,
[00:35:04]
if I ask for something I’m usually
told I’ll four bottom left.
[00:35:09]
I’m like, yeah, and that’s
like the treasure hunt.
[00:35:14]
Scavenger hunt.
I never been OK.
[00:35:17]
I don’t even fight.
[00:35:18]
OK, and then recently I
was at the grocery store.
[00:35:22]
I was just asking for, you know.
[00:35:25]
Coconut, you know, any kind of you have
frozen coconut or something like that.
[00:35:31]
This man says, I think I know what,
let’s figure it out.
[00:35:34]
I’m like, OK, so he walks.
[00:35:37]
He actually goes and he said,
I would have told you I’ll 14 bottom left,
[00:35:42]
but there’s nothing in that story
somewhere else right now.
[00:35:46]
There was a different scavenger hunt
[00:35:48]
because I know this guy
is not going to stop.
[00:35:52]
He showed me the frozen Candice’s the.
[00:35:55]
You know, when I left that day,
I felt if I walked in the store.
[00:36:01]
And if my key performance indicators was
[00:36:04]
how many steps I have taken
with my customers
[00:36:10]
because we are all step conscious,
like the 10000, like we are on structure,
[00:36:15]
we can use the same mindset inside.
[00:36:17]
Like today you have taken
[00:36:19]
fourteen hundred steps and you
are the champion all time record.
[00:36:23]
Tomorrow I want to give
fourteen hundred and one.
[00:36:27]
And every step you take with the customer,
[00:36:30]
as you mentioned earlier,
is like the small things.
[00:36:34]
But to me, it’s a bit like I come back
[00:36:36]
and again, you know, I’m very insecure,
these things make a big difference.
[00:36:39]
I have to tell my wife,
I guess what I make.
[00:36:42]
My new best friend,
Chad and Chad walked with me
[00:36:46]
in the grocery store and found
me three kinds of coconuts.
[00:36:48]
They said she’s like,
you didn’t buy all that.
[00:36:50]
I had to
[00:36:51]
choose you. You buy, what would we do?
I said, I don’t know.
[00:36:55]
Let me call Chad and find out what
[00:36:58]
I had to buy, what he showed me,
how he put the effort in.
[00:37:01]
And you know, that’s here.
[00:37:05]
That’s cool, that’s very cool.
[00:37:07]
So how long have you had an Mengel?
[00:37:10]
It’s after 9/11,
so it’s nearly 20 years now.
[00:37:13]
Wow.
[00:37:15]
So things have changed from a.
[00:37:18]
From an ability for even just
[00:37:20]
the different channels for where
you can market ultimately.
[00:37:24]
OK, so what type of businesses
do you typically work with?
[00:37:27]
You mentioned some some professional
legalities, sports personalities.
[00:37:33]
And to me, I think.
[00:37:35]
You know.
[00:37:36]
For a small band like ours,
[00:37:39]
the best marketing is putting a heart
into every customer every time
[00:37:44]
because it’s the word of mouth
and the references that take us beyond,
[00:37:50]
it’s very tough for me
to market myself, you know.
[00:37:54]
And
[00:37:55]
we are doing some social media and a few
things, but it’s it’s tough,
[00:37:59]
it’s tough to break through
and that’s the reason I just find
[00:38:02]
that every opportunity you get,
you just wow that customer.
[00:38:06]
Because to me, I really think
that’s the biggest opportunity is.
[00:38:11]
We don’t work for only brands,
we work for the individuals that’s there,
[00:38:15]
and I also understand if
you give me a project.
[00:38:18]
You’re not hiding a set,
you don’t have a backup,
[00:38:21]
which means your career depends
on my success and what we do right.
[00:38:26]
And and that’s the part where I take it
both for the brand and for the person very
[00:38:31]
seriously, because you give me
a position of responsibility.
[00:38:35]
It’s like babysitting.
[00:38:36]
You know, you’re going
to say that I followed this.
[00:38:38]
Did the CPR know my job is to get
the baby back to you with a big smile?
[00:38:44]
All body parts, no fingers were
damaged, nothing like that.
[00:38:48]
That is very important and I think taking
the responsibility, that’s the way that we
[00:38:52]
are building the business
as we go through.
[00:38:54]
You know, times are tough at times,
but somehow I just feel that there’s
[00:38:57]
enough goodwill that helps you
to bounce and come back very strong.
[00:39:03]
Yeah, I would say every business has ebbs
and flows, whether it’s a typical
[00:39:08]
seasonality or a left hook of 20 20 at
some businesses had to take on the chin
[00:39:16]
or arguably we all had to take on the chin
cause you just have to adapt and move on.
[00:39:21]
Yeah.
[00:39:21]
And I think that adapt and move on is so
important because that’s the part where
[00:39:24]
you always have to even when you’re small,
you have to evolve constantly.
[00:39:28]
Oh, constantly.
[00:39:29]
Yeah, absolutely.
[00:39:31]
It’s like if I was today iPhone 12,
[00:39:34]
I have to always invest to be iPhone 13,
14, 15, because otherwise especially
[00:39:39]
for a smaller business
being branded as yesterday’s solution.
[00:39:46]
Is a disaster, is a disaster,
and again, this is not my concept,
[00:39:50]
somebody taught me and you
must have also heard about it.
[00:39:53]
Most of us is what I have learned is
[00:39:55]
to constantly evolve this
concept of Fab Fabulous five.
[00:40:00]
You need to because you and I
alone cannot get there.
[00:40:03]
There are thought leaders
who need to hang out with.
[00:40:06]
So who are the five people
you need to hang out with?
[00:40:10]
Oh, I have not heard of that before,
and that’s an amazing thought process
[00:40:14]
to me, that I want to learn social media
and find the most amazing person ever.
[00:40:18]
And I want to be an apprentice
with that person.
[00:40:21]
And because that’s the part which is very
[00:40:23]
important, is the best way
to evolve is having that.
[00:40:26]
Those five people you watch
them from goes learn.
[00:40:30]
And after some time you evolve and then
you just say thank you to one of the five
[00:40:34]
and then you add somebody else
on a different dimension.
[00:40:39]
Those five are very critical because.
[00:40:43]
For you to get to the next level,
[00:40:45]
the skill already exists with somebody
maybe in a different industry.
[00:40:49]
Instead of reading books or anything
to invent, why don’t we just,
[00:40:53]
you know, and the same day be on somebody
else’s Fab Five do so it’s all about
[00:40:57]
giving and taking, but both are parallel,
but giving also you evolve.
[00:41:04]
Interesting how I guess
I’m familiar with the theory,
[00:41:10]
but I haven’t heard it like
the Fab Five like that.
[00:41:13]
So that leads to the question,
how do you find those five?
[00:41:17]
How do you find the people that are
[00:41:19]
that are the professionals that you’re
after when there’s a lot of people
[00:41:25]
saying that they’re professionals
and after you chat with them or spend some
[00:41:29]
money with them, you learn you’re not
exactly the the cream of the crop.
[00:41:34]
Talking about Friede,
this is not big money.
[00:41:35]
So to me, I just oh,
[00:41:37]
this is the part where, you know,
when you and I connect, I right.
[00:41:41]
We realize that there’s something you do.
Mm hmm.
[00:41:45]
And that’s the part where I just ask you,
first of all, what can I do to help you?
[00:41:50]
And can I tell you as a mentor, please,
[00:41:54]
because to me, I think that’s the part
where very important is I will take time.
[00:41:57]
You know, I sign an NDA,
I just assist you in a few meetings.
[00:42:01]
I want to see how you operate.
[00:42:05]
And, you know, to me,
for example, you know.
[00:42:08]
There’s this incredible gentleman called
[00:42:10]
Chad, and, you know, we both know Chad,
Chad, the coconut guy.
[00:42:14]
Yeah.
[00:42:15]
And so Chad with Skrillex, I think,
you know, I’m talking about Chad.
[00:42:19]
Oh, sorry.
[00:42:21]
Chad could be a coconut guy, too.
[00:42:23]
But, you know, he doesn’t
share that with me.
[00:42:26]
But when I met him, what I realized was.
[00:42:30]
He knows how to connect dots.
[00:42:34]
He knows Chad knows
he doesn’t just give you a link,
[00:42:38]
a solution with checks,
boxes by saying I connected you.
[00:42:42]
He knows at the end
how to connect it to the business.
[00:42:47]
And he also understands
that the long content.
[00:42:51]
Does not create the best reach.
[00:42:54]
So he and his team sat with me to help me.
[00:42:59]
With my contact.
[00:43:01]
You know, I had a little.
[00:43:04]
Pride about I knew, but I don’t know
how to market myself, I don’t know.
[00:43:10]
And,
[00:43:11]
you know, that’s that was the part where I
really right to be when I realize this is
[00:43:15]
a guy who connects the dots, I just am
hanging out with Chad in any way I can.
[00:43:21]
And that I also to add value every chance
[00:43:23]
I get, I keep voting him
by saying, what can I do?
[00:43:25]
But.
Just seeing him from clothes has been such
[00:43:29]
an incredible journey as you start going
through and those are the people who have
[00:43:34]
to find and they have to have
a blend of functional skills.
[00:43:39]
And also personality blend because.
[00:43:43]
You know, because without the personality
[00:43:45]
blend,
it’s very tough to connect with people,
[00:43:48]
you have to connect with these
people at a very deep level.
[00:43:51]
Mm hmm.
[00:43:53]
Interesting, I like that.
[00:43:55]
OK, so I’m taking a different direction,
I look at I want to ask you before I
[00:44:00]
forget about Zen Mengel,
I got to ask you where the name came from.
[00:44:05]
I’m so glad you did it all.
[00:44:09]
Initially, we were called restaurant
[00:44:11]
marketing group because they came from
restaurants, was working in restaurants.
[00:44:15]
Well, that is two different
feelings right there.
[00:44:18]
I know, I know.
And it could have got worse.
[00:44:20]
Also, when my clients left restaurants,
I had to get a new name.
[00:44:25]
Yeah.
And.
[00:44:28]
My daughter was 13
and she had just been nominated by at Age
[00:44:35]
magazine at the age of 13
to be 40 under 40.
[00:44:40]
Wow.
[00:44:42]
When there was this classic day.
[00:44:43]
Yeah, I am so proud.
[00:44:44]
Like, that was this amazing date.
[00:44:46]
We are all sitting my team in my basement
talking about what the new name would be.
[00:44:51]
And we are coming from worse than
that strong marketing group.
[00:44:54]
We are coming like strategic marketing
group, like squared and circular names.
[00:44:59]
And then my daughter comes and says,
[00:45:01]
Hey Dad, if I give you a name,
would you buy pizzas for Joey and me?
[00:45:07]
Alexa?
[00:45:09]
Ten minutes, that’s all it took.
[00:45:11]
Ten minutes later, she comes in, you know,
the little kid goes to the
[00:45:16]
easel and she writes there on the
right, but not that ZenMango.
[00:45:23]
And then just hear me out.
[00:45:27]
She says in.
[00:45:29]
Rhymes with our last name scent,
[00:45:31]
and also it puts you in a position
of superiority, it just tells you wisdom.
[00:45:37]
I’m like, oh, I like this already.
[00:45:40]
She’s a dead mango.
[00:45:41]
I added, because mango is
the world’s fastest growing fruit.
[00:45:46]
And also the colors allow you
[00:45:49]
to keep the current orange colors
at the restaurants restaurant market.
[00:45:53]
Not bad.
And then she had also drawn a mango
[00:45:56]
and put that side by saying
that you always awesome.
[00:45:59]
I even put the things out
in the mango to build that.
[00:46:03]
Far.
[00:46:04]
But being a dad.
[00:46:07]
I could not believe that.
[00:46:09]
When we were struggling to.
[00:46:14]
Anything started, this kid just
comes to the finished product.
[00:46:17]
I said, OK, we’ll think about it.
[00:46:20]
In my team was very smart, she said, hey,
[00:46:23]
you know, she bought them pizzas
and she said, Arjun,
[00:46:25]
this is such an amazing name
that it’ll take us years to appreciate.
[00:46:30]
And what she told me I never forgot was
every time we would tell the story.
[00:46:35]
Older you get.
[00:46:38]
You feel good associating with the name
because it came from an amazing origin.
[00:46:42]
Right, and so to me, every time I
[00:46:46]
talk about ZenMango, I don’t
trade the story every time.
[00:46:50]
I’m so glad you asked.
[00:46:52]
It just makes me feel that, you know,
[00:46:54]
to me, my daughter is 26, she’s in
Philadelphia, she’s coming home to speak.
[00:46:58]
But every time I talk about that man,
I just connect with my amazing princess.
[00:47:02]
Of course, she doesn’t like
to be called princess,
[00:47:06]
but it just is an amazing connection.
[00:47:09]
And I’m so glad she gave us the name.
[00:47:11]
That is pretty cool.
[00:47:13]
And just when you’re talking about
[00:47:14]
feelings before,
it’s so interesting that the names
[00:47:17]
and mango brings all these feelings
and restaurant marketing group.
[00:47:22]
If ever there was a name
that was commodities.
[00:47:25]
I know.
I know.
[00:47:27]
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
[00:47:29]
That’s that’s night and day.
Yeah.
[00:47:31]
We group even used to call us
Orangy like who are really.
[00:47:39]
I had no clue what I was thinking so.
[00:47:40]
Oh wow.
[00:47:42]
That is painful to think about.
[00:47:45]
That’s so interesting.
[00:47:46]
I know something,
it’s interesting because you see
[00:47:51]
I like to joke with people on the colors
or the the names of the colors of paint
[00:47:58]
or the names of a microbrew
or the names of some new app.
[00:48:04]
They always come up
with some weird old name.
[00:48:06]
They make up a word, they add a zero
akua next to it and they call it good.
[00:48:11]
And you’re like, what is that?
[00:48:13]
What’s then main goal, I guess,
the first time that I heard that name.
[00:48:20]
I think I still got the impression
[00:48:22]
that you were in marketing and I
didn’t even know anything about you.
[00:48:25]
So it’s kind of interesting,
[00:48:26]
I have no idea why,
but, yeah, that’s a way cooler name.
[00:48:30]
This is way more memorable.
[00:48:32]
Thank you then.
[00:48:33]
Restaurant Merklinger.
[00:48:35]
I can only imagine somebody does a Google
[00:48:37]
search and a restaurant
marketing group there.
[00:48:39]
Like I said, I now regret
telling the story to you.
[00:48:43]
You’re givingthe monologue.
[00:48:45]
And I say, look,
this is the beautiful part about
[00:48:49]
the authentic part of authentic
business adventures.
[00:48:51]
Right?
Because the idea like I had a company
[00:48:55]
called Dodgems, it was
a French repair company.
[00:48:58]
We had more than a few people call us
[00:49:00]
to see if we could ge their wedding
because they thought that James was a DJ.
[00:49:06]
I don’t even know how they came
across us, how they found us.
[00:49:11]
I don’t know if they went to our website.
[00:49:12]
They would clearly see we’re not DJs,
just that name alone.
[00:49:18]
We had people I actually had to reach out
[00:49:19]
to a DJ and I said, hey,
we’re getting these phone calls for DJs.
[00:49:23]
And I don’t want to tell them,
no, we’re not a DJ.
[00:49:26]
I want to say, no, we’re not a DJ.
[00:49:28]
But here’s the DJ.
Yeah.
[00:49:30]
So I just got this guy’s name.
[00:49:32]
He was cool getting free
referrals, you know.
[00:49:34]
Yeah.
[00:49:35]
And you just having just ask them
if you have a dial in your face.
[00:49:40]
I can also connect you to some
[00:49:42]
extent of Samantha.
[00:49:44]
Oh, that’s awesome.
[00:49:45]
So I have a question for you.
Yeah.
[00:49:47]
Fire away.
Fire.
[00:49:48]
We talked about the word adventure.
OK,
[00:49:51]
but I also want to talk about the word
authentic because to me that is such
[00:49:54]
an important thing, not just in business,
but life to everywhere.
[00:49:59]
Like so many times,
even in dating profiles of my single
[00:50:02]
friends, I just look at they put
a picture of them from 20 years back.
[00:50:05]
I said, Do you realize you
meet this person?
[00:50:08]
Hopefully you’ll ever meet.
It’s not you.
[00:50:11]
Right?
[00:50:11]
Help me understand authenticity
like you guys put it in the name.
[00:50:15]
So it’s so important.
[00:50:16]
So we come from and how to be authentic.
[00:50:19]
Like I really have to ask that question.
Sure.
[00:50:23]
So I’ll answer it with the story.
[00:50:25]
A short story, because that’s
the easiest way or best way.
[00:50:30]
This is a we’re on one hundred and forty
whatever episodes, so we do one a week.
[00:50:37]
So let’s just call it two.
[00:50:38]
Two and a half years ago,
[00:50:41]
a person that I know in business,
I invited to be on the show
[00:50:45]
and he’s going to come on the show two
days before he says, hey, James,
[00:50:50]
can you just give me a list of the
questions that you’re going to ask me?
[00:50:53]
And I replied back, no,
because I don’t have a list,
[00:50:59]
because I just tell you,
it’s just like we’re going out for coffee,
[00:51:02]
we just happen to have microphones
and cameras on us at the time.
[00:51:05]
Then it was in a radio studio.
[00:51:06]
There wasn’t even a camera.
[00:51:08]
And he’s like,
I really want to be prepared,
[00:51:11]
so could you just come up with some
questions and give them to me?
[00:51:15]
And he was is pretty persistent in asking
[00:51:18]
this, I’m like, all right,
if I make you feel better, whatever,
[00:51:20]
I’ll put together some questions
and then I’ll email them to you.
[00:51:25]
The show happens and I’m thinking, oh,
man, I actually got to ask him
[00:51:29]
the questions that I told
them I would ask them.
[00:51:31]
So I asked them the questions and he
had a prepared answer.
[00:51:37]
I’m like, oh my gosh,
[00:51:39]
this is the driest interview in the world
because this guy practiced his script.
[00:51:46]
There’s no authenticity about that.
[00:51:47]
He probably bounced it off maybe his
[00:51:49]
employees or his wife and said, hey,
can I say this or how should I word this?
[00:51:53]
I’m not a focus group.
Oh, my.
[00:51:55]
Yeah, right.
You went to a focus group to figure out
[00:51:58]
how to respond to James’s questions,
and it was so dry.
[00:52:02]
It’s still up there.
[00:52:03]
I don’t want to tell you which one it is
[00:52:05]
because I don’t want
to make the guy feel bad.
[00:52:06]
But it was interesting.
[00:52:08]
I’m just in the studio thinking
I got to throw this guy Curveball.
[00:52:12]
I just got to ask him something that was
[00:52:15]
not in the script and just
see what happens.
[00:52:20]
And it went way better because
[00:52:24]
at that point we were probably 15,
[00:52:25]
20 minutes into the interview
and he was comfortable.
[00:52:28]
You know, he’s in his chair,
he’s got the microphone set and we’re all
[00:52:31]
good, even though he’s having his
little memorized, scripted dialogue.
[00:52:36]
So I think I just asked him a question
[00:52:37]
like, when was the moment that you decided
to quit the job and start the business?
[00:52:45]
Because everybody, every entrepreneur has
[00:52:47]
that moment when they’re just like,
I’m here, I want to be there.
[00:52:52]
I got to I got to cut some ties here
and make that make that happen.
[00:52:57]
And when I asked them that,
then it went much smoother.
[00:53:01]
So the intention of the word authentic
[00:53:05]
was to point out or maybe bring
the stories alive of the failures,
[00:53:11]
as well as the successes
with the people that we have on the show.
[00:53:15]
And also he talked about is this becomes
like a real conversation if you and I met
[00:53:21]
for coffee to a common French
connection we would not meet with.
[00:53:27]
OK, before we meet James
[00:53:30]
Hitchins, you will ask me
tell me what those are.
[00:53:33]
And these are the four things
like I have a podcast, too.
[00:53:36]
Nothing like yours.
[00:53:37]
And, you know, and I give
some of the questions.
[00:53:40]
And what was funny was this
one guy says, Yeah, Ergin.
[00:53:44]
The next question that you’re supposed
to ask me, I can vote together, OK?
[00:53:51]
I don’t know.
The person raised me one time,
[00:53:53]
but at the end, you know,
he came so prepared and I just was running
[00:53:58]
a little late because some of that
suspect long sentence was rapping.
[00:54:02]
He said, no, no, no.
[00:54:02]
There’s one more question you asked,
which I didn’t answer up, go for it.
[00:54:07]
And it just becomes because
I totally get it, because.
[00:54:12]
How important authenticity is,
because I’m so glad.
[00:54:15]
Thank you for answering that.
[00:54:17]
Yeah, it’s a huge it’s a huge deal.
[00:54:20]
I guess the whole point of the podcast
[00:54:24]
was the one to help existing
entrepreneurs grow.
[00:54:27]
Mm hmm.
And also to help people that are
[00:54:29]
considering venturing out on their own
in whatever business that they’re
[00:54:33]
considering
to take the leap to take that bold step,
[00:54:38]
knowing that there’s no such
thing as an overnight success.
[00:54:42]
Anything that you can look at that you
believe to be an overnight success
[00:54:46]
probably took at least
a decade, if not more.
[00:54:50]
And what it looks like is even though.
[00:54:54]
You are carrying it on in a conversation.
[00:54:58]
You process things so fast and you drop
[00:55:01]
these one liners because I’m going to
literally listen to this and write down.
[00:55:06]
No, listen, in the last one minute you
[00:55:09]
talked about in every entrepreneur’s mind,
there is that one moment there is.
[00:55:17]
And that’s such a powerful thing.
[00:55:18]
That’s such a powerful thing
is sometimes we forget.
[00:55:22]
And to me, that was very important
[00:55:24]
that when I look at the this everything,
I just went backwards.
[00:55:28]
You no, I did this to be a dad first.
[00:55:31]
Right, though I cannot change the key
performance indicators of the goal line
[00:55:35]
right now, because I really think
that those one liners,
[00:55:38]
zingers from you are so important
that even though it’s an authentic
[00:55:43]
adventure, it is not about both of us just
walking anywhere, everywhere.
[00:55:48]
You just have a master plan.
[00:55:49]
And I love the way you
bring these one liners in.
[00:55:52]
And that, I think makes the adventure not
only fun, but also worth going through.
[00:56:00]
I appreciate you saying that.
[00:56:01]
Well, it’s so much fun.
[00:56:03]
So much fun.
[00:56:04]
I know of well,
[00:56:07]
I guess I don’t know of that many business
owners that are not enjoying themselves.
[00:56:11]
I like to tell them you’re
not enjoying your business.
[00:56:14]
You’re the one that built it, man.
[00:56:15]
So you can get either fix it or get out.
[00:56:18]
What was the whole point
of starting your business anyways?
[00:56:20]
Right.
[00:56:21]
You want to spend more
time with your daughter.
[00:56:23]
So that was a priority to you.
[00:56:25]
So if your business started to take more
[00:56:27]
of your time so that you couldn’t,
you got to fix that
[00:56:31]
because that’s that’s going away from the
whole point of starting the business.
[00:56:35]
I feel like a lot of times entrepreneurs
just give a signal right there.
[00:56:39]
If your business is going away from your
purpose, you are the person to fix it.
[00:56:45]
And the name of the game
repeating what Jim says,
[00:56:49]
that business. Right?
That’s the name of the game.
[00:56:52]
Right.
The rule is it’s not obvious to everyone.
[00:56:55]
Like what you’re pointing
out is not obvious.
[00:56:57]
We blame everybody.
[00:56:58]
And that’s the reason I love this
discussion is and I don’t use love,
[00:57:03]
you know, casually, it’s it’s a cool
discussion that those one liners from you
[00:57:08]
are amazing nuggets that trigger
thoughts in all our minds.
[00:57:14]
Yeah, we get a.
[00:57:16]
I don’t I guess the the rule is that if
[00:57:19]
they give people
content as fast as possible regs,
[00:57:22]
they don’t have the they
don’t have the attention span
[00:57:26]
to pay attention to more.
[00:57:27]
But, yeah, I appreciate you saying that.
[00:57:30]
They’re fun.
[00:57:31]
It’s, um, it’s so interesting.
[00:57:33]
You say that the blame thing
mentioned the blame thing.
[00:57:37]
I was teaching a business plan class way
back when you could teach in person
[00:57:41]
and people that would come up
with the excuses for why they either
[00:57:45]
wouldn’t start their business or
wouldn’t grow their business.
[00:57:48]
Man, it was so amazing how many
excuses they can come up with,
[00:57:53]
I’m like, in the end you’re the owner,
[00:57:56]
but there’s there’s no
man for you to blame on.
[00:57:59]
You are the man.
[00:58:01]
So a woman or whatever,
like you’re the person,
[00:58:04]
and one of the things I have found is
many time excuses come in on a journey.
[00:58:10]
Where we do not know
what the first step is.
[00:58:15]
And once you take the first step,
it’s so much easier.
[00:58:18]
And then you also don’t have a clear
[00:58:21]
picture of the last step, because the last
step is the reason we are doing this.
[00:58:26]
And I’ll give an example is I also try
[00:58:29]
to help people somewhat,
not at that scale you’re doing, but.
[00:58:34]
Sometimes you don’t put
the mirror on ourselves.
[00:58:38]
I wanted to start a podcast for the last
three years, I found every possible reason
[00:58:43]
why not to do a podcast like
the personal give you excuse.
[00:58:46]
I can beat that person any day with
like they were goofy are excuses ever.
[00:58:52]
OK.
[00:58:53]
But then what I found was I needed
to find that fab, find that one person.
[00:59:00]
And I needed that person to help me take
[00:59:02]
the first step
and also have a clear vision
[00:59:06]
on what the last step would be,
because once you have the last step,
[00:59:09]
that means once you take the first step,
there’s no stopping.
[00:59:12]
You have like once you start a race
and you know, and you feel what it feels
[00:59:16]
like to cross the finish line and,
you know, feel that deep that the hole
[00:59:20]
just for you and you just like I did it,
there’s momentum, momentum.
[00:59:25]
So those are the two things.
[00:59:27]
Any time there’s an excuse,
I push people because it’s you know,
[00:59:30]
we are human beings, again,
like it’s OK to be scared, you know,
[00:59:35]
because inertia is very important because
what we have not done before
[00:59:39]
and that’s the reason I think
that first happened, the last step.
[00:59:41]
And people find
[00:59:43]
that excuses like now I don’t even
remember my amazing podcast excuse.
[00:59:48]
I think I had one hundred
and one of those.
[00:59:49]
Butthey’re gone.
[00:59:52]
They’re in the same place with restaurant
[00:59:54]
marketing group like you have to remember
where you’re spending your time coming up
[00:59:58]
with excuses instead
of making something happen.
[01:00:01]
Yeah, the same amount of same
amount of brainpower.
[01:00:05]
Yeah.
Or more.
[01:00:07]
Right.
Arguably more.
[01:00:08]
Absolutely.
[01:00:09]
And you’re always with the thought that,
you know, they’re incomplete.
[01:00:13]
That failure in your mind stays
with you and it defines you
[01:00:18]
until you try.
You don’t know whether you fail or not.
[01:00:20]
If you don’t try, you’re a failure anyway.
[01:00:23]
Oh, absolutely, yeah,
yeah, I’ve had certain business decisions,
[01:00:28]
arguably quite a few business decisions
that were not the greatest in the world,
[01:00:32]
and you just dust yourself
off and move on, right?
[01:00:36]
Yeah, just get up one more
time and get knocked on.
[01:00:40]
I see another one like
dust yourself and run.
[01:00:45]
I should listen to it, right?
[01:00:46]
I should be like your
sidekick on your podcast.
[01:00:48]
I’m serious.
Like
[01:00:52]
these men get to shave your
hair and put sunglasses on.
[01:00:55]
I can do that, too.
I just.
[01:00:58]
Oh, that’s funny, Arjun.
[01:00:59]
This has been a lot of fun.
Truly my pleasure.
[01:01:02]
Truly my pleasure.
How can people find you online?
[01:01:06]
Arjun@ZenMango.com
[01:01:08]
Just go to ZenMango.com
ZenMango.com.
[01:01:11]
That is awesome.
[01:01:12]
Is there I guess what is the target market
that you’re after as far as businesses go.
[01:01:17]
So to be primarily in hospitality,
restaurants, service industry.
[01:01:23]
But the bigger challenge to me is
[01:01:26]
any business, anybody, even if you are
B to B or B to C, at the end there is a C
[01:01:33]
and for C, that customer being a human
[01:01:36]
being,
just to connect the dots and show you how
[01:01:40]
you can be successful
in the film business.
[01:01:43]
I really think I get goose
bumps when brands get it.
[01:01:46]
Sometimes it rises.
[01:01:48]
Results in a new tagline,
a new way of delivering service because.
[01:01:53]
Humans, you know,
it’s like we are at a creative best
[01:01:57]
when we find that new technique,
that new thing literally.
[01:02:01]
This part is very cheesy, but I feel
that inside makes action inevitable.
[01:02:06]
And we as humans are amazing,
but it’s all about that first domino.
[01:02:10]
Once together, we can push
that and nudge that and then to see
[01:02:14]
how everything falls in place and then
better experience, better everything.
[01:02:18]
It’s really fun.
Nice.
[01:02:20]
I love it.
[01:02:22]
So Arjun, that’s A-R-J-U-N, correct?
[01:02:25]
So Arjun@ZenMango.com.
[01:02:28]
This is super cool and is your
podcast on that same website.
[01:02:32]
Yes. Very cool.
Very cool.
[01:02:35]
Will have to send some listeners over your way.
[01:02:37]
That would be an honor.
[01:02:39]
It doesn’t hurt. How often
do you record your podcast?
[01:02:43]
I try to do it once a week.
All right.
[01:02:45]
But I’m not novice compared to you.
[01:02:47]
This is my first year.
[01:02:48]
I just have crossed 40 episodes.
[01:02:50]
Just started it.
Your probably four times,
[01:02:54]
at least for most people
to start podcasts are doing so.
[01:02:57]
Yeah, but I’m the guy who had hundred
million excuses over two years.
[01:03:00]
So
[01:03:02]
you are not alone there.
[01:03:03]
This started as a potential radio show.
[01:03:08]
Oh, man.
[01:03:12]
Eight years ago.
[01:03:13]
So this has been stewing in the back
[01:03:15]
of my head for a long time
and I just I stumbled upon a local radio
[01:03:22]
studio here that would
let me do a show and it just.
[01:03:28]
Blossomed from there.
[01:03:29]
So
this is little things like that that can
[01:03:32]
contribute to the momentum sometimes
even when you’re not looking for it.
[01:03:36]
Absolutely.
[01:03:37]
So, yeah, it’s just
this is the way it goes.
[01:03:42]
Cool.
[01:03:43]
Well, thank you, Arjun,
this has been Authentic Business
[01:03:46]
Adventures,
the business program that brings you
[01:03:47]
the struggle
stories and triumphant successes
[01:03:50]
of business owners across the land.
Coming to you, Arjun.
[01:03:54]
I don’t even know where you are.
[01:03:55]
Where are you where are you at today?
Denver, Colorado.
[01:03:58]
Denver, Colorado.
Beautiful.
[01:03:59]
Denver, Colorado.
I love it.
[01:04:02]
And I am in Sun Prairie.
[01:04:04]
And this is underwritten
by the Bank of Sun Prairie.
[01:04:06]
If you’re listening to this on the web,
[01:04:07]
please, like, subscribe, share, comment.
Do all that stuff to bring on other new
[01:04:12]
listeners, because that’s how
we keep making new podcasts.
[01:04:15]
Right.
[01:04:16]
My name is James Kademan
and Authentic Business Adventures is
[01:04:19]
brought to you by Calls On Call offering
call answering services for service
[01:04:23]
businesses across the country, on the Web
CallsOnCall.com.
[01:04:27]
As well as Draw In Customers,
Business Coaching offering business coaching
[01:04:30]
services for entrepreneurs
in all stages of their business.
[01:04:34]
On the Web at DrawInCustomers.com. And of course,
[01:04:37]
The Bold Business Book,
a book for the entrepreneur in all of us
[01:04:40]
available on Amazon and wherever
fine books are sold.
[01:04:44]
We’d like to thank you our wonderful
[01:04:45]
listeners as well as our guest Arjun Sen,
founder and CEO of ZenMango.
[01:04:51]
Arjun, why don’t you tell us one more
time how people can find you.
[01:04:56]
Go to ZenMango.com.
[01:05:04]
Also Arjun@ZenMango.com. Perfect.
[01:05:07]
Find us airing locally, way locally at
[01:05:11]
103.5 FM
Wednesdays at 1:00 p.m..
[01:05:12]
Sundays at 2:00 p.m..
[01:05:14]
And you can find us online
[01:05:16]
of course, we’re on YouTube. And past
episodes can be found morning,
[01:05:19]
noon, and night at the podcast link found
at DrawInCustomers.com.
[01:05:24]
Thank you for listening.
We’ll see you next week.
[01:05:25]
I want you to stay awesome.
[01:05:27]
And if you do nothing else,
enjoy your business.
