How to Market Yourself

Podcast: Play in new window | Download (38.5MB)

Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Amazon Music | iHeartRadio | Email | RSS | More

Steve Miller – Be Uncopyable

 

 

Podcast Overview:

00:00 Inside TED: A Creative Dinner Party
07:48 Stunt Career Beginnings
16:04 “Evolution of Trade Shows”
18:45 “Finding and Understanding Your Audience”
22:55 “Breaking into Sales through Connections”
30:48 Innovative Ball Control Concept
34:14 “Understanding Your Customer”
42:44 Demonstration Success Through Participation
44:13 “Strategy Inspired by Truckers”
51:04 “Mattress Mack’s Generosity Post-Katrina”
55:14 Final Customer Question
01:01:28 Deming’s Legacy: Quality & Benchmarking
01:07:48 Efficient Tablecloth Technique Observed
01:10:15 The Uncopyable Concept Insight
01:19:23 Golfer’s New Career in San Diego

Podcast Transcription:

Steve Miller [00:00:00]:
And he sat there, and he was holding a an orange, like, towel cloth, something like that. And and he just kinda would hold it there for a second, and then he and then he would he would, be watching people who were walking Be, and then he would he would find and I found, like, later on, he would he would look for a couple.

James [00:00:28]:
Oh, interesting. Okay.

Steve Miller [00:00:30]:
And and as they were walking by, he would just throw it out on the floor. So this orange cloth falls out on the floor, and, of course, it got In, you know, gets their attention. They go, oh, yeah. You know? And he goes, oh, hey. Can you grab that for me? And I go, yeah. And and then then he said then he would say, can you do me a favor?

James [00:00:58]:
You have found Authentic Business Adventures, the business program that brings you the struggle stories and triumphant successes of business owners across the land. Downloadable audio episodes can be found in the podcast link found at drawincustomers.com. We are locally In by the Bank of Sun Prairie, calls on call extraordinary answering service, as well as the bold business book. And today, we’re welcoming slash preparing to learn from Steve Miller, who is Kelly’s dad as well as, and I love this, a marketing gunslinger. So today, we’re talking marketing. Steve, how is it going today?

Steve Miller [00:01:32]:
James, thank you so much for inviting me to be here. I, I’ve been on a lot of podcasts over the years and, you know, having written a lot of books. Books. And and, I really enjoyed preparing for this because I was able to go back and look at and, you know, you just have this wide variety of people that you’ve talked to, and there’s a very good reason why that’s a good thing. And we can talk about that a little a little bit more. But, I mean, you know, when you’re talking to I love it. Actors. You talk to actor, people who are act I used to I used to be a stuntman.

James [00:02:11]:
Did you really?

Steve Miller [00:02:12]:
Yeah. And

James [00:02:12]:
Call, this podcast just got cooler.

Steve Miller [00:02:15]:
Oh, well, it’s just you know? No. And there’s a lot of reasons why. A lot of reasons why. So, anyway, very excited to be here with you, James. Thank you so much for inviting me.

James [00:02:24]:
Yeah. So we have a lot of ground to cover because you’ve been doing this a long time. I wanna start with the big thing. You got the TED hat in the in the background there. So you gave a TED Call. Let’s Here at TED talk. About that because I feel like we have to get that out of the way.

Steve Miller [00:02:38]:
Call, okay. Alright. TED is, for people you know, TED is a really it’s like the world the world’s coolest conference, you know, to go to. And you you, pretty much have to be invited to go. I had, heard about Ted for for many for many years, and did everything I could to talk to people and say, hey. If you ever have a chance to put my name in a conversation at Ted, let you know, please do that. Right? And I to this day, I still don’t know how it happened, but all of a sudden, one day, I got the letter, and it, you know, it said, hey. Would you like to attend Ted? And, and at that time, that was back in the late, it was, like, 02/2005, something like that.

Steve Miller [00:03:26]:
Ted was a was a deep dark secret, and and it it is basically the the way to describe Ted is imagine that you had, a chance to have dinner with the coolest, smartest, wealthiest, sometimes strangest, and I would say most creative people on the planet. If you had a chance to go have dinner with them, who would you invite? And that’s kinda how TED got actually got started was under that that premise. And, so, by the time I got there, it it now has capped at one it’s a it’s it’s a conference of 1,000 people, and they are without question the coolest, smartest, wealthiest, most creative people on the planet. And somehow, I got In, And, and then back in 02/2006, I was invited, by the the new owner at the time, Chris Anderson. He he and I were talking at the On, and I just said I said, you know, you need to have me come and speak.

James [00:04:41]:
How straightforward. Right? What do I need?

Steve Miller [00:04:43]:
And what do you know? And and he’s like he’s like, well, why should I have you come In and speak? And I said, because number one, I’m a pretty good speaker. I said, and I’ve got stuff to say, stuff to share. At that time, I mean, I had grown up. I’ve already told you that I was a stuntman at one one point. Well, before I was a stuntman, I actually I actually, was, on the PGA golf tour.

James [00:05:07]:
Holy cow. We got a On man here.

Steve Miller [00:05:09]:
Well, that’s yeah. That and that was what I wanted to do was go be a be a golfer. Right? And I went and I made it. I got out on the tour except I except and one thing happened that, I was unable to fix. You’re actually supposed to make money to stay out there. And, and I made no money. So, or not enough. And and so after a couple of years, I realized, hey, I’m not I’m not getting anywhere.

Steve Miller [00:05:35]:
So I need I need to leave and go find something else. But I had no idea what I was gonna do. I went I went to Purdue University, played golf on the, you know, on the golf team and stuff like that, but I majored in electives in college. Okay? I didn’t you know, I was not the best.

James [00:05:52]:
The first time I heard that, but I love it because I feel

Steve Miller [00:05:54]:
like I’m very student. Okay. Not the best student. And so when I left the tour, I really did not have any backup plan. Fortunately for me, I had I had a roommate, at at Purdue who came from an old Hollywood family. And, he had let and after he graduated, he had gone to Hollywood and he became a direct a director. And so when he when he heard that I wasn’t doing anything, he said, hey. What you know, Call you what.

Steve Miller [00:06:26]:
Why don’t you come and work with me? I’ll give you a job, and then you can and you can make a little money and then we can you can figure something out. Right? Well, I you know, without getting into too many things, I mean, I’m kind of my friends In say I’m like a Forrest Gump type of guy, but, I had studied Chinese martial arts, growing up. And so when we got to when I got to Hollywood, and started working with him behind the camera, I was just a grunt. I was just, you know, doing stuff. He paid me pretty Call. But then they had and he was directing, a TV show that probably nobody remembers anymore. It’s a show called Wonder Woman. I don’t know if you, Wonder Woman.

Steve Miller [00:07:17]:
Ever heard that, ever heard of that. With Linda Carter? With Linda Call yeah. Nobody’s ever heard of her ever since. You know? She’s the nobody. And, yeah. So they were doing that, and they and they had a situation where they they, had a fight scene, they were gonna do, and and it was it was on location somewhere. And, and they were they really wanted to have one more stunt person, funk do do the fight scene. And my buddy said, hey.

Steve Miller [00:07:48]:
Let’s, you know, Steve can do it rather than rather than, you know, wait all day and pay all these people to do nothing. He said he can he can do In, and it was a nonunion show. And so, so he stuck me In. And and next thing you know, for for a couple years, I I was out there, and he and his brother was directing. His dad was a big producer and stuff. And so they got me and they they kept me kinda busy for a couple of years. And, so, you know, like I say, I mean, going from a golfer to stunt work and stuff like that, it was, In was a lot of fun, but, Burt Reynolds was very famous for saying because he was an old stuntman. He was very famous for saying there are, old stuntmen, and there are bold stuntmen.

Steve Miller [00:08:43]:
But there are no old, bold stuntmen. So,

James [00:08:46]:
I love it.

Steve Miller [00:08:47]:
So Love it. So I I bailed out of that, and my friend and I got into sales. So, that’s kinda hot. We’re we’re going from college and and and and stuff to, finally getting into business.

James [00:09:04]:
Right on. Tell me really quick about the PGA thing. You said you had to make money on there. Making money from sponsorships? Or

Steve Miller [00:09:12]:
No. On the tournament in the tournaments.

James [00:09:14]:
Oh, I have no idea how that works, I guess,

Steve Miller [00:09:16]:
as soon as you play in the tournaments, and and if you win, you win them. You know, nowadays, these guys win $2,000,000 from you know, when they In when they win a tournament. Okay. Back then, it would the money was very low. I mean, it was it was very, very small. I mean, if you won a tournament, you might win 20 or $30,000 back then. But you are an independent On, and so you are paying your way to go out and play.

James [00:09:42]:
Gotcha. So if you don’t win, you’re You got can’t afford to keep playing.

Steve Miller [00:09:47]:
You’ve you’ve paid to be there. You know, you have an entry fee. You have your travel expenses. You have, you you might be paying for a caddy to to help you and stuff like that. So, if you don’t get a check that is more than what you paid

James [00:10:06]:
Oh, I gotcha. Okay. Interesting. I guess I never really

Steve Miller [00:10:10]:
same thing today. I mean, the money In bigger, but it’s still the same thing. The guys still have to pay their way to be there.

James [00:10:17]:
Alright. So it’s either win or go home. Or That’s right. Have enough money And

Steve Miller [00:10:20]:
I did. I went home. I have to keep playing.

James [00:10:24]:
And then I wanna ask you about the stunt thing. Were you stunts strictly for fighting, or did you get into rolling cars and being on fire and stuff

Steve Miller [00:10:31]:
like that? Do a I did a did do a few car car things. You know, that that was a little more of the wild West, for some people than it is today. Today, they’re pretty specialized. And, and and, you know, I mean, they’re amazing. They are just amazing to watch. And and, you know, but I was I was back there when I I mostly, I did fights. I did some high Calls, and, but, fighting was probably the the main thing for me. I did do some motorcycle, because I had I had, was a dirt bike rider and and stuff.

Steve Miller [00:11:12]:
And so

James [00:11:12]:
Oh, nice.

Steve Miller [00:11:14]:
Yeah. In was, you know

James [00:11:16]:
So tell me because you mentioned that you had some fighting background, so or some martial arts background. So that brings you into becoming a stunt person. But in the end, you still gotta have some balls to jump from crazy high. They they they probably didn’t necessarily teach you in Chinese martial arts.

Steve Miller [00:11:33]:
No. No. Not at all. Oh my gosh. No. I mean, that was, you you know, learn by doing. Alright. You have people, you know, people who are teaching you and stuff.

Steve Miller [00:11:45]:
You know, if you’d if you’re doing a high fall, you know, you got a bag, airbag you’re gonna you’re gonna jump into. I’m I’m scared of heights. So it’s not like I really wanted to go really high. You know? If it was one or you know, if it was two or three stories, that was about the max for me. You know? And, you know, but I watch Skywatch guys doing really high high Calls, and I just go, they are just out of their minds. You know?

James [00:12:11]:
I’m just imagining me and someone’s like, hey. You’re a stunt guy. Right? You’re a stunt guy. As of today, you’re a stunt guy.

Steve Miller [00:12:19]:
Yeah.

James [00:12:20]:
So jump on the top of this Third Floor and just jump down. Trust us. There’s a big pillow down there. You’re fine. And me thinking, what

Steve Miller [00:12:29]:
In what they said to me. Yeah. You know?

James [00:12:31]:
What did I get In to? They said Or maybe find somebody to push

Steve Miller [00:12:34]:
me off. Just land on your back. Just make sure you land on your back. You know? So, you know, and you watch these guys now. I mean, I don’t know if anybody here has, you know, watched the movie, the fall guy Yeah. Love it. Which was based on a TV show back in when I was doing this stuff, with, Lee Majors and stuff.

James [00:12:52]:
Yeah. We used to watch that when I was a kid.

Steve Miller [00:12:54]:
Yeah. Yeah. And, you you know, you see these guys now. I mean, these guys are fearless. Yeah. And, you know, you watch them jump out of a helicopter down to a bag, you know, and you’re just like, that’s nuts. But, god bless them. I mean, they they’re just so much fun to watch.

James [00:13:15]:
Yeah. I remember, I don’t know if it was last year. A couple years ago, I was watching a documentary on motocross and the tricks that they do and just the evolution

Steve Miller [00:13:25]:
Nuts. Of flips. Nuts.

James [00:13:26]:
And how it used to be like a

Steve Miller [00:13:27]:
Motocross is just dirt bike.

James [00:13:29]:
You know what I mean?

Steve Miller [00:13:29]:
That’s really what you know, that’s what you know, my roommates and I, you know, would would we all had, like, you know, small dirt bikes. And, and we’d be out riding around and and stuff like that. And, you know, man, if you just did a high you know, if you just did a jump somewhere, you’d you know, you’re like, woah. That’s really cool. Nobody ever thought of, oh, we should do a flip while we’re doing that On. You know? No. No. That never cost anybody.

Steve Miller [00:13:54]:
Right. Yeah. Yeah. Four or eight. Yeah. Whatever. You mean yeah. It’s it’s insane today what people are what what some of these people are doing.

Steve Miller [00:14:02]:
So Yeah.

James [00:14:03]:
It’s interesting what the documentary was essentially saying was that the barrier to entry keeps getting steeper because what you have to do to top the next person or the person below you is,

Steve Miller [00:14:14]:
is just getting more and more tricky. Like that. I mean, if you if you look at, figure skating, for example, okay, and you see what these people are doing today on, you know, figure skating at the Olympics. Right? But if you go back to the seventies, Dorothy Hamill, who was considered to be, you know, the world’s you know, unbelievable. Right? And you watch what you watch what she what she did back then, you’re just going, wait. Middle schoolers are doing that now.

James [00:14:44]:
This isn’t special at all.

Steve Miller [00:14:46]:
No. That’s right. That’s right. So Oh, it’s cool. You know what? And and and, I mean, it’s interesting because you know what? Business isn’t is not really that much different. What we have to be able to do today, you know, in business is far beyond, you know, back, you know, fifty years ago. True. When when you think about, when I was in you know, we’re talking about, you know, back in the seventies is when I was doing this stuff.

Steve Miller [00:15:21]:
The our mode of communication with customers, prospects, people like that was basically I mean, you you might have a telephone, but long distance calling was extremely expensive. In. Expensive. You might be able to get on an airplane expensive, you know, not like it is today, where you can go anywhere in a hot second. You know, so you might have trains, you know, trains, planes, and automobiles. Right? You know? And, and and so there were limited ways to communicate with the marketplace. You mentioned a trade show. Alright? You mentioned going to a trade show.

Steve Miller [00:16:04]:
Well, that that’s how trade shows got started, was because there were no, trade shows became the efficient marketplace of industries, you know, where you go to and you pick out any industry you On. And and you look and, historically, you go back and and trade shows, they might have one or two trade shows a year, and it’s where all the buyers and all the sellers came into one location. And they wrote orders, you know, on the spot, and that’s how they built their businesses and and stuff like that. You know? Well, nowadays, you’ve got a gazillion ways to communicate with people. You know? And, so that In it it it’s it’s no different than the sports or the athletics that, you know, we were just talking about In that it’s advanced so much so much farther.

James [00:16:51]:
Right. Yeah. The ways to communicate is almost, I would dare say, too many

Steve Miller [00:16:56]:
because It is too many.

James [00:16:58]:
Don’t necessarily know who’s paying attention to what. Yeah. Yeah. I don’t know. It’s weird. I was talking to my sis I’m sorry. My wife’s sister. I tried to call her once.

James [00:17:08]:
I don’t know. It was a year or two ago for something, and her voice Miller In full. Like, who’s got

Steve Miller [00:17:13]:
a full voice mailbox? How does the voice mailbox get full?

James [00:17:16]:
Yeah. And she’s like, ah, I just wasn’t listening to any messages, so I just let it get full and I just whatever. I’m like, well, don’t people call you? And she’s like, yeah. They do. If I see a number and I recognize it, I answer. If I don’t recognize it, I don’t.

Steve Miller [00:17:30]:
Yeah.

James [00:17:31]:
So then you’re like, well, what about email? In it’s like, hey, email. I got 50,000 messages in my inbox. And it’s just kind of evolved or degraded at the same time, devolved, I suppose, because there’s no uniform means of communication anymore.

Steve Miller [00:17:47]:
No. It just no. But what it what it does do is that it forces, business people and In particular, those of us, the the small business people, it it forces us to really, really understand marketing.

James [00:18:02]:
Totally. Thousand times over.

Steve Miller [00:18:04]:
Yeah. Yeah. A a thousand times over. Because if if you don’t understand marketing, and and that goes it it goes from identifying who your target market In. We call a moose. See that picture of a moose back there?

James [00:18:20]:
Yeah. I see that.

Steve Miller [00:18:21]:
Yeah. We, we we describe target markets as moose because we say, hey. Look. The way to think about your mark you know, sometimes people get into these avatars and and so we go, let’s just keep this real simple. Okay? Imagine that you are hunting moose. Alright? You wanna go hunt moose. Alright? Where are the moose? Are the moose in Florida? No. The moose are not in Florida.

Steve Miller [00:18:45]:
They’re probably in Canada somewhere. So you go you you go to where the moose are hanging out. Alright? You go find and and and and you try really hard to find, where a lot of moose are hanging out. Okay? And then then you try to make sure that these are hungry moose. Alright? But what are they hungry for? So are they hungry for what you’re look what you’re offering them, or or On not? So, Steve, for us with our clients, we we start with this it’s a real simple way of just looking at it is is like, who’s your moose? And do you know your moose better than everybody else? And In you do and if you know how to communicate with them, then, then you can start to figure out, okay. Now how do I how do I connect with them in those so it might be on it might be on LinkedIn. It might be I I mean, more and more today, I’m I’m hearing from companies that are using Pinterest, to to connect online. I heard I I I had a good friend of mine, Shep Hyken, who’s one of the world’s top customer service experts.

Steve Miller [00:19:57]:
Okay? And he was talking to a group of speakers last week, and he said he said, hey, Steve. What, you know, what social media are you using now that you’ve never used before? And I said, I don’t I’m I’m I’m not. He said he said, I have he says, I’ve got a million people connected on Pinterest in you know, for my company. You know? And I was like, what? Wow. A million people. Like Is

James [00:20:27]:
he selling something where

Steve Miller [00:20:28]:
the Yeah. Oh, yeah. He’s if you if you Google if you if you, you know, chat t p t, search Shep Huyken, s h e p, Huyken, he’s he’s one of the most famous customer service experts in the world. Alright. Interesting. I’m just saying that you see it’s it’s it’s it’s evolving. It’s all evolving. You know? And we have to, pay attention to this stuff.

Steve Miller [00:20:54]:
And if our moose are going are moving from you know, and this is this is not unusual. Pete maybe they moved maybe they used to be on Facebook, and now they’re over on Pinterest. Well, you know what? I better be go I better be heading over to Pinterest.

James [00:21:10]:
Right. Follow the herd, Ricky.

Steve Miller [00:21:13]:
Follow the follow the follow the moose. Follow the moose. Exactly right.

James [00:21:19]:
I love it. So tell me let’s get back to you going into sales because that’s, going from, a guy jumping and kicking and fighting Call that In of stuff in Hollywood

Steve Miller [00:21:31]:
Yeah. Yeah.

James [00:21:32]:
To selling I know. I’m sorry.

Steve Miller [00:21:34]:
Not supposed to swear, but I

James [00:21:35]:
No. You’re good. Safe place. We’re all good. So tell me, how did you decide to get into Calls, then what were you selling first?

Steve Miller [00:21:43]:
Well, I I decided to get into sales with my with with my buddy Craig, because, I I I I had no plan. Okay? I thought golf was gonna be my world. And, and then when you know? And that that and I don’t wanna say failed because I was still one of the best players in the world. But you you gotta be, like, one of the top 200 best players in the world. Okay? So, there’s no shame in that.

James [00:22:17]:
No. Not at all.

Steve Miller [00:22:18]:
But I had no other plan, other than that. So then so then Craig rescues me. He he he he puts me to work behind a camera, gets me involved in stunts, where I’m making a pretty good, living, but it was very clear. God, I’m not gonna do this. I cannot do this for the rest of my life. I gotta find something else to do. And Craig actually was, he at that time, he was not as enamored with Hollywood as, a lot of people would be. But and so he was kind of thinking, hey.

Steve Miller [00:22:50]:
I’d like to see if there’s something else that we can find to do too.

James [00:22:54]:
Oh, okay.

Steve Miller [00:22:55]:
So together, we we kinda came up with this concept of, well, you know, what’s what’s an easy job to get into? And and the answer was sales. It’s easy to get In. It doesn’t mean that it’s easy to be in. It just but it’s easy to get into. And he came up with this with this idea that, and with through his connections, because Hollywood has a lot of connections. Through his connections, he knew about companies, in in the Los Angeles area who, had products that they would try to sell you know, they’d try to feature them on movies. You know, you you sometimes watch a movie and you see a product or, you know, product placement or something like that. So he had connections for those.

Steve Miller [00:23:47]:
And then and and so he started talking to these people, and he realized that a lot of these companies also had, excess inventory. Oh. Or they had products that failed. And, and they had inventory. Right? And so, Craig came up with this concept. I did, and Craig came up with In with this with this idea that we could go to these companies, and we could say, hey. We will take those that excess inventory off your back In it’s a consumer related type of product, and we’ll go sell In. Right? And pay you for for what you know, like that.

Steve Miller [00:24:30]:
And and then together, we kinda and I don’t remember who came up with this, but we kinda came up with the idea of swap meets in the markets. Yeah. Right? And, and there’s a huge On. There are two really huge ones in in Southern California. 1 is the, Rose Bowl, swap meet, which In, I think, once a month or something like that. And then there’s the weekly Orange County, swap meet. And, so we started to go to these swap meets, and we would take these products and sell them at the swap meets.

James [00:25:10]:
So you’d have a booth and Yeah. You hustle the stuff?

Steve Miller [00:25:14]:
Booth, and we would have inventory, and we would, sell this stuff. And Be gosh, Be were able to start making a little bit of money. And And the company said to learn about sales.

James [00:25:31]:
So did the company’s On I’m picturing here is the ShamWow or something like that where somebody’s got a warehouse full of these.

Steve Miller [00:25:36]:
You know what? And that’s a that’s a that’s a really good example because that because you actually In is what you would go to these swap meets. ShamWow was there. You know? You know? And the the In knives and you know? They were all at these swap meets. They’re all at these swap meets. And so, you know, we’re there, you know? And we got a folding table, and I’ve got a, I don’t I I don’t wanna jump up and run away, but, I mean, I got some of some of the products I used to sell, back there that actually ended up being products that I I helped to create later on. But but the point being is that I learned how to sell.

James [00:26:15]:
Nice. Okay.

Steve Miller [00:26:16]:
I learned how to sell, people, you know, people because, you know, people are walking through, you know, and they’re yeah. They might have an idea, like Call, saying, oh, I wanna go get some dishes or I wanna go get some knives or something like that. But they’re not they’re not necessarily thinking about every most of the time you walk through a a a swap Miller or a flea market, it’s really just kind of a fun thing to walk through, and you see all kinds of products.

James [00:26:42]:
Yeah. Good and bad. It’s a little bit of a circus.

Steve Miller [00:26:44]:
Most of it sucks. You know? And, yeah, it’s it’s 100% a circus. That’s what it is. It is a circus. And, and Craig and I, especially Be, I mean, I got really, really good at at selling. And so we started making some very good money. And and so, and, actually, one of the companies, which was a radio controlled toy company out of Japan, it was actually the world’s largest radio controlled toy company. Be were selling some of their excess inventory and Steve, and the guy got so impressed by the fact that I kept coming back and saying, I need In need more.

Steve Miller [00:27:32]:
I need more. Right? And they, and they hired they they asked. They offered me a job in sales. Nice. And, so so now I go from selling to consumers to now I go to b two b selling, you know, where I’m I’m selling to, retailers.

James [00:27:56]:
So going to the KB Toys or Toys R Us or

Steve Miller [00:27:59]:
something? KB was one of my clients. Alright. And, and and or some smaller specialty retailers, you know, or some and then, ultimately, I worked my way up to where Toys R Us, you know, Kmart, Target, all these guys, they become my clients. And then, ultimately, I became, head of international sales marketing for this company. And, and that’s where I really kind of started to make a name for myself in the toy industry. And, and the year that, the Cabbage Patch Calls came out and just went berserk.

James [00:28:43]:
We’re talking eighty four

Steve Miller [00:28:45]:
ish. Oh, I think I was it was earlier than that. It was earlier than that. No. Be no. Late seventies or, you know, ’80.

James [00:28:52]:
Okay. Okay.

Steve Miller [00:28:53]:
Eighty. I don’t know. Something like that.

James [00:28:54]:
Yeah.

Steve Miller [00:28:54]:
And, I I actually had the number one boys’ toy that year. It was it was a radio control, version of a Honda ATV.

James [00:29:06]:
Oh, funny.

Steve Miller [00:29:07]:
And, and and I became really well known for that. Okay? And I I was, yeah, and I was very full of myself and, you know, oh, yeah. I’m I’m the smartest guy In the planet. I know I know what needs you know, I know what will sell. And, and so I come up with I and I and I thought of this story because I you know, in preparing to talk with you, James, you know, I saw that you guys really like to hear about, failures. Yeah. So Yeah. I thought

James [00:29:41]:
I just wanna know I’m not alone. That’s

Steve Miller [00:29:42]:
Yeah. No. Well, you’re not. And and so here I am. I am just killing it. I’m just killing it. And I’m I’m on the cover of the toy industry magazines and stuff like that, Wonder In, you know, stuff like that. And and and then I, and then I come up with this concept of a radio control let’s think about radio control.

Steve Miller [00:30:13]:
Alright? You know? And, you know, it could be runs through mud and water and all that sort of stuff. Alright? And, you know, kids love it. I mean, little especially little boys. Right? They love they love it. So then I, for some reason, I come up with this idea of a radio controlled ball. So just a ball. There’s no antenna, but it’s a Call. And you still you still run it like a with like a radio controlled toy.

Steve Miller [00:30:48]:
Okay? So you got your you got the machine, you know, you got, I mean, the controller and forward, backward, right, left, stuff like that. And, and I came up with this On, and and I just thought, oh, man. I am going to blow this industry out of the water. And so I you know, I go to my I go to Japan, and then I’m show I’m showing the this concept of how to how how do you run a ball to where it rolls everywhere? Okay. And, must be cool. Every kid’s gonna want it. Right? And, and and and the bosses and everybody like that are going, yeah. But it does it’s not a it’s not a, like, a motorcycle or it’s not a three wheeled ATV.

Steve Miller [00:31:37]:
It’s not it’s not it’s just a ball. Yeah. I know. I know. Steve, it’s different. It’s it’s a different It it was it was a complete failure. In was a complete failure. You know? I I mean, we spent I I got my company to spend a crapload of money on design, production, designing the packaging for Toys R Us, everything.

Steve Miller [00:32:07]:
And it was just an abysmal failure. And, nobody I mean, no kid in their right mind wanted to buy that thing because it it it didn’t didn’t go in dirt. It didn’t go in water. You had to have a a flat pavement for this thing to run around in and stuff like that. And and it was just a massive just a massive failure. And, so, you know, I got fired.

James [00:32:34]:
Just like that. Okay. One mistake. One mistake.

Steve Miller [00:32:36]:
Well, In it was dollar mistake. It it was a very expensive mistake. You know? So, they were right to fire me. Okay? But then it was sort of like after that, it was like, I’m like, woah. Now what? What do I do now? But but the lesson see, that’s where, and I’m I’m I like myself in a lot of ways because I’m really good at learning stuff and and learning In I may you know, if I and and it took me a year or so to to kinda put my head back in place, and that was kinda when I came up with this this On,

James [00:33:19]:
okay, of

Steve Miller [00:33:20]:
the moose. It was that, oh, oh, you see, I wasn’t thinking about our moose. I was just thinking about what Steve thought was really cool.

James [00:33:34]:
Instead of going to the world, you’re trying to bend the world to your will, kinda.

Steve Miller [00:33:37]:
Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And I happen to be in a I I happen to be having a conversation with, Robert Miller, who was a televangelist, many years ago, you know, a minister in Orange County, California. And and I just happened to be having a conversation with him. And I and I I said I I I said I I get it now. I get it now. I’m I’m I’m I make a I’m making a mistake because I’m not figuring out the target market thing.

Steve Miller [00:34:14]:
You gotta understand your customer. Right? And he’s the one who came Be who who told me the the moose thing. Oh, interesting. He said he said, yeah. He said, if he you know, if if moose are if if that’s your target market, you know, where do you hunt them? You know? And I go, well, I end up in Canada. Right? And then he and he’s like, do you, you how do you hunt them? Right? I go Be says, do you use a tennis racket? Like, no. I gotta have a moose gun. Right? You know? Well and and do you hunt them with ding On? Hostess ding dong.

Steve Miller [00:34:49]:
No. I hunt them with moose bait. Right? So he’s the one who got me into the this concept of hunting moose and, which became one of the big foundations for the companies that I ended up working with, and and and building after that. And then when I got into consulting, huge it’s just a huge part of it. Huge part of it is understanding your target market. The more you understand your target market, the better you are. But I had to go through this stupid, failure, you know, to realize that I had just ignored who my moose was.

James [00:35:34]:
Oh, I get it. I always tell people education is expensive, and it doesn’t always happen at college or high school or whatever. It’s real world education In expensive as well. So

Steve Miller [00:35:44]:
Well, you all and I I I think I read, in my notes. I think I see you you talk about cultivating resilience.

James [00:35:51]:
Mhmm.

Steve Miller [00:35:52]:
And, you know, that, you you know, viewing, failures as learning opportunities.

James [00:36:01]:
Absolutely.

Steve Miller [00:36:02]:
And, and because that’s gonna happen. That’s going to happen. You’re going to fail. It just it’s just the way it works. You know? I mean, even even my failure on the PGA Call tour, I’ll I know so much now about business and life because of golf. Okay? And even my speech at TED, when Chris Anderson said, okay. What do you wanna talk what do you wanna talk about? I said, well, I’m an ex golfer, ex pro golfer. Right? And he goes, you are? Right.

James [00:36:40]:
It was very nice. You know? Doors opened.

Steve Miller [00:36:44]:
And yeah. And then I he he said, well and so I ended up giving a talk in 02/2007, at TED that, was titled how to think like Tiger Woods.

James [00:36:57]:
Oh, nice. Okay.

Steve Miller [00:36:59]:
And, and it was it was crazy successful at TED. And then a Uncopyable of months later, my wife, Kaye, and I were on a, cruise in the Mediterranean, and we get a phone call, from Chris. And he says, hey. We’re gonna start putting videos on the Internet of of the TED speakers. And would you be willing to, let us put the Tiger Woods talk on the Internet. I’m like, yeah. Okay. Cool.

Steve Miller [00:37:42]:
So I was my my video was actually one of the first, videos on the TED.com website. Really? Okay. And then about, and I I wanna say, like, six to eight months later, Hager decided to have this thing called a scandal.

James [00:38:04]:
Mhmm.

Steve Miller [00:38:06]:
You know, a fight with his wife. He’s had affairs all over the place. You know? And then I get and and I and I get a phone call from, Chris, and Chris says, we might need to take that video off off the website because it’s about Tiger Woods, and we don’t wanna have Tiger Woods connected to TED.

James [00:38:40]:
I mean, views are views. Right?

Steve Miller [00:38:42]:
Views are views. Well, that’s what you’d say now. You know? So so it’s gone. But, I mean, In but if you go to the TED website and you, search my name, it still pops up about my program. But the program is not not there anymore to see.

James [00:39:03]:
Feel like they could’ve tweaked the title or something like that or something, but I don’t know. Bunch of people are gonna be looking for Tiger Woods in the search and

Steve Miller [00:39:13]:
Not not no. When when the scandal hit, it I thought, oh, yeah. You know what?

James [00:39:17]:
You don’t wanna be connected to it.

Steve Miller [00:39:19]:
Just Well, not I didn’t care, but, Right.

James [00:39:22]:
Or they didn’t wanna be connected to it.

Steve Miller [00:39:24]:
Hey. He lost all his sponsors except I mean, I mean, Call almost almost all his sponsors, everybody like that. So Yeah. Anyway, that’s it. You know, that’s life. That’s the way that it works.

James [00:39:34]:
Very true. Very true. I wanna downshift and back up a couple steps here In you don’t mind.

Steve Miller [00:39:39]:
I have no. Go right ahead.

James [00:39:41]:
When you were at these, the swap meets and you’re becoming a good salesperson, how did you learn how to sell? Did you go to classes, or did you watch other people? Or how did you learn

Steve Miller [00:39:54]:
Actually actually yeah. Yeah. I I watched other, people at other exhibitors at the at the swap meets.

James [00:40:02]:
In imagine you learned what not to do as well as what to do.

Steve Miller [00:40:05]:
More what not to do. Alright. The the number one thing, which, of course, becomes, part of this whole, you know, our our you know, we we have this uncopyable brand. The idea being that you you you need to separate yourself from the crowd. You need to be different. And that was that was probably the number one thing was that I started to notice as I as I watched other the other booths and and exhibitors, how much they all looked alike. And one time, I remember and it was it was somebody who was demonstrating, like, kitchenware, cookware, or something like that. You know? They had one of these, like, mirror mirrors up on above where

James [00:40:56]:
you Call see what they’re cooking.

Steve Miller [00:40:57]:
Yeah. Because you know? So so you can see what they’re doing. Right? What they’re working on. Right? And, and I note and I noticed that this guy kept having crowds. And so I thought, you know, why does he always have crowds? Right? So I so I went and I stood to the side one day, and I was just kinda watching him. And as and Be finished his demonstration, and I got his crowd disappeared. He got his orders and stuff, and they left. And then he kinda just stood there for a while.

Steve Miller [00:41:29]:
And he oh, man. I boy do I remember this. And he sat there, and he was holding a an orange, like, towel cloth, something like that. Right?

James [00:41:45]:
Yeah. That almost looks like a chamois.

Steve Miller [00:41:47]:
I know In does, doesn’t it? And and and he just kinda would hold it there for a second, and then he and then he would he would, be watching people who were walking Be, and then he would he would find In found, like, later on, he would he would look for a couple.

James [00:42:08]:
Oh, interesting. Okay.

Steve Miller [00:42:09]:
And and as they were walking by, he would just throw it out on the floor. So this orange cloth falls out on the floor, and, of course, it got In, you know, gets their attention. They go, oh, yeah. You know? And he goes, oh, hey. Can you grab that for me? And I go, yeah. And and then then he said then he would say, can you do me a favor? He said, you know, I want to sell my products. I love my products. I think they’re great, everything like that.

Steve Miller [00:42:44]:
He said he said, but but in order for me to do it, I have to give a demonstration. In order for me to give a demonstration, I need people. And he said, and if I don’t have if I start a demonstration, there’s nobody standing here. He said, then nobody else is gonna stop. He said, but if there are if if there are some people already standing here while I start my demonstration, that gives other people permission to stop. Right? He said, so would you do me a favor? He says, I he says, I’m not trying to sell you or anything like that. He says, I just need you to stand here for a couple of minutes while I start my demonstration, and that gives people permission to stop. Right? And it worked On it was unbelievable.

Steve Miller [00:43:38]:
I never saw anybody say no because people people wanna help. They wanna kinda be nice and stuff like that. And so they would Steve they would stand there, you know, with no intention whatsoever of buying anything from him. But they’re they’re like, you know, yeah. Okay. I’ll I’ll I’ll help you do this. Right? And and he would start his demonstrate, and he’d be talking to the two people that were, you know, that he got to to to stop. Right? And, and then and while he was talking to them and he’s get starting the demonstration, other people other people saw it.

Steve Miller [00:44:13]:
And and they would come in and they would stop. They would stop. Right? It’s the truck drivers who stop at a cafe that that you know, when the parking lot is full. You know? And that that’s that’s what would happen. And the guy and and I watched this guy over and over and over again. And I realized, you know, he he was coming up with an idea that I later on turned into a full blown strategy for businesses that, you you know, you need to be able to, do something and and and and be something that people see as different. Okay. So the orange cloth, you know, got their attention.

Steve Miller [00:45:06]:
Right? So everything I do you know? And and this and and as coincidental as it was because of the guy, because I still remember it was the orange cloth, and and my wife still remembers when I came home from being at that, you know, and and there was, you know, or about the orange cloth. So, like, that’s not the reason why we use the color orange. We have a completely different reason for doing that, but, which which is not not important. But the point being that in order to get people to, number one, you have to be different.

James [00:45:47]:
Must. Absolutely.

Steve Miller [00:45:48]:
Nobody buys from you because you are similar to the competition. They don’t. They buy from you because you offers offer them something different than the competition. Now something different that is valuable, it’s, you know, it’s got it’s got something else add added to it, but it has to be different. They don’t buy from you because if if you are similar to the competition, then they only buy from you because of price.

James [00:46:18]:
No. Otherwise, you’re a commodity. You’re just firewood.

Steve Miller [00:46:20]:
Exactly right. You are a commodity. And and, you know, technology is commoditizing everything. And that’s why it’s turning it’s it’s it’s turning marketing and business from my product is is so much better In some it In so much better than and nobody cares. Your everybody’s product is good enough now. You know, it’s more all cars, it used to be, you know, thirty, forty years ago, there were cars that were crap. We everybody knew they were not good quality cars. Okay? There’s no such thing now.

Steve Miller [00:46:55]:
Alright. There. Cars are the car. Regardless of their price, there’s they’re quality cars now. So Steve, for so the you have to deliver something else and In, for lack of a better term, the word is experience.

James [00:47:11]:
Oh, I like it. Tell me more about that.

Steve Miller [00:47:13]:
Well, you have to deliver something else outside of the product that people say that is worth me buying from you. Okay.

James [00:47:28]:
So when

Steve Miller [00:47:28]:
you say And and if you do it right, your price does not become an issue. In fact, price could be higher.

James [00:47:36]:
Absolutely. Absolutely. I have a blog titled the value is in the price talking about all that kind of stuff.

Steve Miller [00:47:43]:
So I I have I I have another saying that I’m I’m well, I’m known for a, you know, a bunch of sayings. One of my one of the sayings that I’m known for is, the experience is the marketing. So if you if you deliver an experience to people that they cannot get anywhere else, that’s the marketing. Gotcha. And and, like, the simplest, one that I, example that I share with people is I is when I’m speaking around the world or or or something, I will I will often ask my audiences, what is the most successful, most ridden roller coaster in the world?

James [00:48:28]:
Man, I don’t know.

Steve Miller [00:48:31]:
You’ve ridden In.

James [00:48:32]:
I don’t know. I honestly don’t know.

Steve Miller [00:48:33]:
Yeah. Yeah. I I almost can guarantee that you’ve ridden it.

James [00:48:39]:
I’m thinking of great America in Illinois, but, I don’t know. Or maybe a Disney World thing? I haven’t been on a roller coaster in a long time.

Steve Miller [00:48:49]:
Space Mountain.

James [00:48:50]:
Space Mountain. Okay.

Steve Miller [00:48:53]:
Space Mountain is just a roller coaster, and it’s not even a great roller coaster. From from the roller coaster perspective, it’s not high, doesn’t have the doesn’t do loop Be loops. It doesn’t do any of that stuff. Okay? But it’s wrapped in an experience that starts long before you get on the ride. It starts when you when you go In Space Mountain itself, and you go through the hallways, and there’s sound and lights and and and so like, In starts to build and build and build, and then it gets you to and it finally gets you to the right, and then you get In the right. You don’t see anything. You can’t see a darn thing. You know? And then you go and you ride a rocket.

Steve Miller [00:49:48]:
And it this is this is the number On, ridden roller coaster on the planet. Wow. And it’s and it’s just a a medium roller coaster. So, you know, that that is a very simplistic, example, but that’s the point. The point is is that you can be successful without thinking that, oh, god. My product has to be so much better than everybody else’s. Nobody gives a crap that your product is better than the competition. If it’s good enough for what they need it to do, then that’s all that matters about that.

Steve Miller [00:50:31]:
What they wanna know is is who are you and what are you what are you gonna deliver to me that that makes this different? I’ll give you I’ll give you a great example. Okay? And and and while I gave it to you, I will include the story of the, the the famous guy I was telling you about earlier Yeah. Before we got started. Sweet. My book, not that one. This this one over here. I can’t tell which one. Uncopyable? Uncopyable.

Steve Miller [00:51:04]:
That’s the there’s there are four books in the in the series, and, and this one is, was the first one, uncopyable. And a guy named, Jim McIngvale in Houston, Texas, who is also known as Mattress Mack, Jim owns three furniture Steve home home furnishing stores in Tech in Houston. And, several years ago, when when hurricane Katrina, blew up tech, Houston and destroy you know, flooded Houston, destroyed Houston. So, again, Jim went on to he was known as Matt. He was his commercials all he called himself Mattress Mack in in his commercials, and that’s what he was known as his nickname was Mattress Mack. Hurricane Katrina destroyed Houston. He goes on to Facebook Call, and he makes an announcement. He says, if you have lost your home, if you’ve been displaced by the hurricane, and you need a place to stay, come to one of our stores.

Steve Miller [00:52:20]:
You can sleep on our beds. If our beds are full, we’ll pull the mattresses out of the out of the warehouse. You can sleep on the mattresses. If those are full, you can sleep on the couches. If you are hungry, we will feed you. If you, need clothes, we will find clothing for you. The guy became a certifiable rock star in Houston. I mean, really famous.

Steve Miller [00:52:47]:
And he’s famous worldwide. If you Google Mattress Mack, you’ll you will find him. He’s he’s also well known because he became a very high gambler, high stakes gambler, in baseball and football and stuff like that. But that’s that’s not the point. The point is that is that, he he was already very, very famous. He read my book. He read my book. And, at at and he’s a huge sports fan.

Steve Miller [00:53:19]:
At the In, at the opening of the Houston Astros baseball season, the opening game, He’s sitting there, and the Houston Astros come running out onto the field in their bright orange shirts. And he turned, he looked at his son, and he said, Steve Miller. Boom.

James [00:53:48]:
I love it.

Steve Miller [00:53:49]:
And he called me he called me the next morning, hired me on the spot

James [00:53:54]:
Very cool.

Steve Miller [00:53:55]:
To consult to consult for them. So, yeah. So that was very you know, that was really, really amazing. Now when I was out there working with him, he was already doing stuff that I just thought was incredible. Why? This guy is successful for a reason. Right? One of the things that he was doing was when he has deliveries like, let’s say somebody has some a couch to deliver. Right? And, you know, and I met with all I I met with his whole all of his employees. I mean, it was all of his employees.

Steve Miller [00:54:36]:
Delivery people, salespeople, everybody. Right? And and In one of the meetings, I’m Call I’m with the delivery people, and they start talking about, that they are delivering product. They’re delivering a couch. And and, like, two two guys are talking about delivering a couch, out of this ranch outside of, Houston. And they go out and they, deliver they deliver it. Everything looks great. They clean it all up, ready to go. And then they they said, Jim always told his delivery people.

Steve Miller [00:55:14]:
Before they leave, they are to ask the customer one more question. And that and that question is, is there anything that you need to have done around here that we can help you with? Oh. And these two guys said to me, they said that they were and it was, like, just a few days before. They said they said they were they delivered this, couch or something. And they said that to this woman, and she looked at them and they and she they’re out In that ranch. And she said, my husband, was in an accident recently, and he’s been he he’s injured. He can’t he can’t you know, he says, we’ve got cows that need to be milked. We have horses that need to be exercised.

Steve Miller [00:56:05]:
And she says, I’ve I have not been able to get to all that stuff today. And these two guys, both of them said, we grew up on farms. We’ll take care of it. One of them took off and went out and milked the cows. The other one ran out, got the horses, and went out and jumped on one of the horses and just and started exercising the horses, riding them all over the place. Alright? When they got done, they asked if she needed anything else. She said, that’s that’s amazing. Thank you very much, and they left.

Steve Miller [00:56:46]:
Now think about that. It was a mat it was it was a couch. They delivered a couch. Probably a decent couch. Sure. Okay? But how many times do you think they’ve told that story to friends?

James [00:57:04]:
Hundreds. Imagine.

Steve Miller [00:57:06]:
And anybody who visits their home and comes and sits down on their couch, you know what? They’re they’re going, you know, she’s she’s saying, let me tell you about this couch. Right? It’s not the couch. It was the experience. Mhmm. Right? And I remember I was in a speech one time, big speech, a lot of people. And, and I’m telling this Steve, and this guy raises his hand, and he goes he goes, hey. I’ve you know, I’m I’m in, you know, business of, you know, having my, employees deliver products and and stuff. Okay.

Steve Miller [00:57:43]:
He says, I would never do that. He says, because their job is to to get the product delivered and move on to the next delivery. And I said, then Be very, very thankful you are not competing with Jim McIngvale.

James [00:57:56]:
Oh, nice.

Steve Miller [00:57:59]:
Steve, that’s the thing. What what is the experience? What is it that we are delivering to people that they cannot and you know, or won’t get somewhere else.

James [00:58:11]:
Don’t be the commodity.

Steve Miller [00:58:12]:
Else. See, and I learn Steve, and Miller this stuff just from when I’m out, you know, growing up, and I’m doing I’m doing this stuff. You know? And and, and I start to realize and and this is this is one of the things that when I was preparing for my conversation with you, James, and I’m looking at all these different interviews that you got. You got interviews with peep with landscapers. You got with painters. My favorite On, I told you earlier, my favorite one, actors. You know? Actor. Actors.

Steve Miller [00:58:46]:
Steve, these are these are different industries, different jobs. They’re doing different thing. That’s where we learn. We don’t learn by staring at our competition.

James [00:59:03]:
True. So true. Oh my gosh. Yes.

Steve Miller [00:59:06]:
You know? And and that’s see, that’s the bottom line. That’s what the In thing is all about. It’s one On is is what we teach is is, and I learn I actually learned this, from one of the consultants on on the eight track, growing up. I’m a young teenager. You know? I I told you. You know? My dad was the co co inventor of the eight track tape player.

James [00:59:29]:
Yeah.

Steve Miller [00:59:30]:
Okay. And, he and his partner, they couldn’t afford to build it in The United States.

James [00:59:42]:
Oh, okay.

Steve Miller [00:59:43]:
Yeah. Because, they they didn’t have enough money. The late they they said labor was too costly.

James [00:59:51]:
Sure. Still is.

Steve Miller [00:59:52]:
So they yeah. You know? So so they tried to build it in, Nogales, Mexico.

James [00:59:58]:
Okay.

Steve Miller [00:59:59]:
And they said, yeah. Labor was fine, but the, government officials were too expensive. So my dad came up with that. He he had done some work in Japan, and he said, oh, I got On idea. He says, I think we can build this in Japan. You know? But this is back in the early sixties. The problem was it was back made in Japan back in the sixties. It it was crap.

Steve Miller [01:00:23]:
It was junk. Sure.

James [01:00:25]:
Bad connotation there.

Steve Miller [01:00:26]:
Yeah. It was it was known as a junk, except there was one company who had found this guy from America who was a consultant in the in The US who could not get companies to hire him in The US. Deming? His name was w Edwards Deming. He had this concept of total quality management, and Toyota said, alright. You you know, you come and work with us. Help us do this. Right? So my dad and his partner, Bill Lear of Learjet, hired Deming to Wow. To make sure that when the eight track was built in Japan, the quality was good enough to sell to what what they were kept referring to as the consumer nation, The United States.

Steve Miller [01:01:28]:
You know? If it wasn’t good enough, the eight track was gonna fail right out of the box. So it had to be built back then, it had to be built with high quality. So Deming was the one who who who taught that. One of the one of the things that that stuck with Be, I was a I was a young teenager, and my dad would drag me on trips with these three old white guys, who, and Deming had no interest in in spending time with this teenager. But, I was there. And one of the things that he would teach that is part of the total quality philosophy is benchmarking. Okay. So and benchmarking is the the definition of benchmarking is to observe correct behavior and then emulate within your own context.

Steve Miller [01:02:27]:
But Deming used to, he would rant and rave about the fact that and he couldn’t get he couldn’t get American companies done to hire because they were they had no interest in the the especially the benchmarking part because there are two parts to benchmarking that most companies fail to realize. One part is intrinsic benchmarking. You study your competition. What are they doing? What what’s come you know, what’s coming up with them and stuff like that? And, so you see if you see some them doing something and for the most for the most part, 99% of the time, if you see them doing something that, is winning, it’s because they’re doing something better than the competition. And that’s the keyword. It’s only better. Better is always beatable.

James [01:03:42]:
Love it.

Steve Miller [01:03:43]:
Different can be unbeatable. See, that’s that’s what and Deming used to say. He said he said there’s intrinsic benchmarking. He says, and that’s where you study your competition. You watch your competition, and you look for ways to be better than your competition. But at the very least, you look you you make sure that you are minimum viable product. Right? You you that you are as good as the competition. That’s intrinsic.

Steve Miller [01:04:13]:
Okay? And 99% of companies out there, all they study is the competition. Okay? Deming said, if you want you want new ideas, you have to do extrinsic benchmarking. In other words, you have to go somewhere else. You and this is the old get out of the box thing. Right? That nobody ever explains to you what what does that really mean. Getting out of the box means that you get you leave the world that you’re in. You go somewhere else. But they say get out of the box.

Steve Miller [01:04:53]:
They don’t tell you really what what’s what does that mean? It it doesn’t mean anything. No. In mean what what what Deming meant was you go climb into other boxes.

James [01:05:04]:
Mhmm.

Steve Miller [01:05:05]:
So, like, if you are in the, I don’t know, On In, okay, and and, historically, all you do is study all your competitors. You you just study the other restaurants. Okay? No. Deming said Deming would say, no. You need to get out, and you need to go into the health care box. Mhmm. Go study the hospitals. Go study the doctors.

Steve Miller [01:05:31]:
Go go go go study them, and then get out of that box and go get into the manufacturing the aerospace manufacturing box and go see what are those companies doing over over there. Okay? Because what they’re doing, might be different than what you’re doing.

James [01:05:47]:
Absolutely.

Steve Miller [01:05:48]:
That’s where you’re gonna get your new ideas. That’s that’s why, you know, one of our books is called Steve genius. So we thought we because we teach the the concept is get out of you have to not just get out of your box. You have to go into other play I’ll get perfect example. I was consulting for Caterpillar.

James [01:06:11]:
Okay.

Steve Miller [01:06:12]:
And, they were trying to come up with some new ideas for, teaching drivers and for, helping their customers, to see their their products. Anyway, so I’m in Chicago where the, the headquarters is outside of Chicago, and and I I rented a bus. And I took the upper management, put them in the bus, and I said, okay. I’m gonna I’m gonna take you somewhere. We’re gonna go study the and, you know, they think, oh, we’re gonna go to some other some manufacturing facility and goes, you know, stuff like that. Right? That’s in the box thinking. K. Oh, I I took him to the American Girl place.

Steve Miller [01:06:58]:
Alright. You know, which at that time was the only American Girl store in In world. And, so and and as we pulled up out front, they all go, what is this? I said, well, you’re gonna go inside this. They said, we’re going into a doll Steve?

James [01:07:15]:
Yeah. You got a bunch of guys from Caterpillar at the doll store.

Steve Miller [01:07:18]:
You’re going into a doll store. I said, and I want you to take notes. And I want you to I want you to go look at how do they connect with their customers. What are they what are they doing with their customers? Right? You know? I I I had to drag them kicking and screaming off the bus and into American Girl store. Two hours later, I had to drag them kicking and screaming out of the store because they were taking so many notes.

James [01:07:48]:
I get it. I get it. I can tell you I was in Portugal, I don’t know, last year sometime. And I’m sitting at this restaurant, and I’m watching these, the wait Steve come out with the tablecloths. So a group of people would leave, and they’d have a bus person, whatever, take the stuff, remove the old tablecloth. And I was looking at the way that the tablecloth that they had it folded so that they could just lay it down, unroll, unroll, and in seconds, they had that down. Where comparatively at other restaurants, you’d see it would be folded or it’d be a ball. And these people had it down so it was efficient.

James [01:08:24]:
It was essentially wrinkle free, and it was just fast Yeah. That they could keep turning the tables. And I remember just watching that, and I I probably look like a creep because I’m just watching them do this with all the tables. And I’m thinking somebody had to come up with a way to fold those. They had to work with the laundry people to get them to fold them that way.

Steve Miller [01:08:43]:
Yeah. And where where did they come up with the idea? Who knows where they came up with the idea? But again, you know, it’s it’s it’s ideas are all around us every single Draw. No matter where you can go into a Starbucks and come up with a new idea. Yeah. Let me ask you. Like like, I mean, simple stuff Call like language.

James [01:09:00]:
Absolutely. Yeah.

Steve Miller [01:09:02]:
You can you can none of us knew how to order coffee until Starbucks taught us Italian.

James [01:09:13]:
So true. So true.

Steve Miller [01:09:15]:
You know, we we yeah. And and and, you know, and where did that come I mean, he did you know you know, he just he just came back from Italy, and he said, oh, I I wanna do that. Mhmm. And I’ll I’ll just transfer that over here. I won’t use the American way of ordering stuff. I’ll use the way it was over there. You know? Completely different. And, you know, and that’s the thing In is that we just tend to, look at our world, and we and we say, oh, I can be better than our competition.

Steve Miller [01:09:50]:
Nobody cares. Right. Nobody cares. You can be better than your competition because your competition will your you know what? Your competition are watching you too. In you come up with if if you if you start to have some oh oh, we have our more RPMs, you know, than they do. Oh, okay. We’ll we’ll just make we’ll make our our machine faster than your machine. You know? Yeah.

Steve Miller [01:10:15]:
No. You need to come up with something that they cannot do or they won’t do. That’s one of the beautiful things about the the the uncopyable concept In that see, and and, you know, and, James, the way I learned all this stuff was purely by accident. It was because it started with Deming, who planted this seed in my head. Right? And then I go out. My dad does the does the eight track, so I’m around that. I also was around broadcasting, radio, and Steve, so I and then I go, I wanna be a golfer, so then I’m around golfers. I learn about how to think, about goal setting, like I talked about with with Tiger at TED.

Steve Miller [01:11:01]:
Alright? But then I go from there to stunts, and I’m seeing a different thing. And the whole thing was is that what was happening was that I was experiencing different perspectives. Mhmm. It was all it was all driven home to me. Years later, I’m golfing with the pres with, Jim Nordstrom, president of Nordstrom Steve at the time. And, you know, we talked business. We talked marketing and stuff like that. And he said to me he said, I think maybe we might wanna hire you to consult for us.

Steve Miller [01:11:41]:
And I said I said, Jim, I said, I know nothing about retail. I I all my experience has been b two b. And so I said, I know nothing. And he said, that’s why we wanna hire you. He says, if we hire, retail consultants, they’re just gonna teach us what what they teach our our competition.

James [01:12:05]:
The same stuff everyone else is doing. Yeah.

Steve Miller [01:12:07]:
That’s right. And he said, but if we and when he said that to me, it was like, oh my god. It was the light bulb went off, and I thought, Deming. And I realized I had all these different experiences. Most people don’t have multiple, experiences. And and and it it and so it’s it made me start to think, okay. I have to continue to do that. I have to continue to expose myself to new experiences and new I because that’s where the new ideas are gonna come In.

Steve Miller [01:12:39]:
And that’s how I build my business.

James [01:12:41]:
Love it. Love it. It’s interesting because when you say I’m thinking about this. When you say think outside the box, sometimes it means just getting outside of your house or your hotel room or whatever and just go experience something. Meet some people, go to a restaurant, bar, roller coaster, whatever.

Steve Miller [01:12:58]:
Yeah.

James [01:12:59]:
Just be observant.

Steve Miller [01:13:00]:
It it yeah. Well, it starts with being aware, being observant. That’s what it starts with. The second thing is is that you you really need to just push yourself to go to places that you normally wouldn’t go to. Steve Jobs was famous for that. He he when he would have, meetings at Apple, he would bring in people who had nothing to do with high-tech. You know, he’d bring in artists and author you know, poets and, you know, just people who had just completely nothing to do with with their world. Because he said he said he says, this is where the new ideas are coming from.

Steve Miller [01:13:44]:
You know? So, you know, I’m not I’m not the first guy to ever come up with this stuff, you know, but I’m certainly capitalizing on it. And and my clients are too. You know? You know, when I teach them how to do this stuff, they now have they they they now have a skill that they could take for the rest of their lives.

James [01:14:04]:
Absolutely. Absolutely. Tell me about your you said five books. Right?

Steve Miller [01:14:09]:
Four four books right now. I well, I have 10 books. I I wrote my first book back in, oh, 1990. And, but our most recent books, the the the the series you see kinda back here, Uncopyable Call, uncopyable was my first one. That’s a marketing marketing and branding. That one. One of the chapters in there is is called stealing genius, you know, where you do go out and you steal from competition. In? And my my publisher was so happy with it.

Steve Miller [01:14:46]:
They they had me, write the second book back there, stealing genius. My wife who, at one time In her my wife is unbelievable salesperson. At On time in her career, she was selling for Walker Automotive, world’s largest muffler manufacturer. She was the number one salesperson in the world for two years. She was the number I call her muffler mama. Oh. And so she wrote, a book called Uncopyable sales secrets, and then, and and most of most of the stuff that we had done was bait was helping companies. But at the same time, you know, I also had a lot of people saying, hey.

Steve Miller [01:15:35]:
Wow. You can help me. You know, I could I could be On copyable by myself. So he said, yeah. Personal branding. And so that’s where this came from, the the Uncopyable you Calls you know, the most our most recent book, uncopyable you, is personal branding book. Now I will say this, James, to connect you and I, my first book, Uncopyable, came out in 02/2017, same year that the yearbook

James [01:16:04]:
Oh, yeah. The Bold Business Book. Yeah. Yeah.

Steve Miller [01:16:06]:
Bold Business Book. Nice. So we have that we we got that going for it.

James [01:16:11]:
Nice. Yeah. The publishing industry has changed. I can only imagine in the in the nineties compared to now. Holy cow. Different game.

Steve Miller [01:16:20]:
Yeah. That was pretty wild back. That was pretty wild back. And I got very lucky. I I I had a very I had McGraw Hill.

James [01:16:28]:
That

Steve Miller [01:16:28]:
was my very my very first book, and it it became a very big Miller, and and it was great. But, it was about trade show marketing. And

James [01:16:39]:
Okay. Oh, funny. Which is

Steve Miller [01:16:41]:
so totally out it’s completely out of date now. But, In was it was a very, very big seller back back then. Yeah. I’ve I’ve been very fortunate to have four four best Miller, out of out of the 10 that I’ve I’ve had, and and, so I’m I’m a lucky I’m a lucky guy.

James [01:17:00]:
That’s awesome. That’s awesome. Steve, where can people find you?

Steve Miller [01:17:06]:
What? They haven’t they haven’t seen my house? No. That’s just the big orange Be. Right? The website is beuncopyable.com.

James [01:17:17]:
Be uncopyable Be be. Correct?

Steve Miller [01:17:20]:
Yeah. Beuncopyable,uh,.com. And, you know, you reach out. You reach out. We we’ve got stuff. Be, you know, we can send stuff to people. You know, In they they got questions for us, you know, we can put them on an email list. You mind if I make a comment about a a my Kaye put together a five five day personal branding Oh, nice.

Steve Miller [01:17:47]:
Thing. And if you just go to Be Uncopyable copyable.com/the number five dash Calls, oh, wait a minute. I have a very, very fancy,

James [01:18:05]:
Look at that. Buncopyable.com/5-emails, plural. Yeah.

Steve Miller [01:18:11]:
Here we go. Yeah. And you get In and and it’ll be a five day program on on, set you know, separating yourself from the crowd.

James [01:18:19]:
I love it. That is fantastic. Steve, you are Kelly’s dad. We didn’t even touch on that. So is Kelly in the marketing world as well?

Steve Miller [01:18:29]:
She well, she actually, she’s in sales. Kelly grew up to be a, you know, I taught her how to play golf because I I saw I just thought that’d be a really good thing for a girl to do. And she ended up falling in love with it. She became one of the world’s top amateur players. Very good. Played, scholarship d one golf for Portland State University, was very successful there. She got hired. She did not wanna be a professional golfer, so, Callaway Golf hired her to, sell.

Steve Miller [01:19:06]:
She she became a salesperson for Callaway Golf, world’s largest manufacturer of golf equipment and clothing and stuff like that. And, so dad was very happy to, have that connection.

James [01:19:22]:
You get some discounts now.

Steve Miller [01:19:23]:
It was so awesome. Well, she’s not there anymore. She finally left that, left Callaway, and she’s now working for a private country club down in the, San Diego, selling memberships and stuff. She’s fantastic golfer, great kid, and, you know, her boyfriend is a great golfer too. So, yeah, golf is in the family, and we we we have a great time. But, yeah, she from the day she was born, she was Kelly’s dad. And, just quick, story about her In the color orange. I was marketing, you know, marketing consultant, and I I thought, oh, wait.

Steve Miller [01:20:03]:
You know, branding. I really need to do some branding. So I thought I need to pick a color. So when she was two years old, I put some color swatches on the floor, and I said, pick a color. She picked orange, and then I waited a couple of weeks, and I did it again, put it on the on the floor. She picked orange, and that is why our color is orange for, for branding.

James [01:20:31]:
I love hey. It works, man. It works. It works very well.

Steve Miller [01:20:34]:
It works really, really well. Yeah. And I Call about color I talk about that in in in the stealing genius and in uncopyable In is stuff like you use you use things like color. I mentioned language, you know, like with Starbucks and stuff. The these are things that are anchors and triggers that you can use that nobody can take from you. Right. They they cannot they cannot copy you in in these ways. You know? They have to come up with kind of their own language, their own Calls, and and stuff.

Steve Miller [01:21:10]:
And, you know, but you can see it. Like, we always, you know, we always say, hey. If if if you become, and we don’t have fans. We don’t have followers. We have BFFs. And we say, if you become if you become one of our BFFs, and you are allergic to orange, you’ll be dead in two weeks. Yeah. You know? So

James [01:21:32]:
Oh, that’s awesome. It’s everywhere, but that’s good. That’s good.

Steve Miller [01:21:36]:
That’s right.

James [01:21:37]:
I love it.

Steve Miller [01:21:38]:
That’s exactly right, James.

James [01:21:40]:
There’s no one else that can do what you do, especially I mean, even if they have a pencil that’s orange, I’m sure they’re gonna be like, woah.

Steve Miller [01:21:47]:
Oh, that’s right. That’s exactly right. Yeah. That that’s the whole idea In that none of nobody else that does consulting and speaking and stuff like that can can try to do that, you know, because we did it, and the world knows it. So,

James [01:22:03]:
You own a measurable percentage of the rainbow. Right? Isn’t it? One seventh, one eighth. What are we talking about? That’s

Steve Miller [01:22:10]:
That’s good. That’s good. Yeah. Incredible.

James [01:22:12]:
I love it. Well, Steve, thank you so much for being on the show.

Steve Miller [01:22:16]:
Oh, man. What a pleasure. Then you’ve you know, I did all the talking. You you did I didn’t give you much chance. So,

James [01:22:24]:
No. Well, you’re my guest, man. I just gotta come here and gather the guests and record it here. So you make my job easy.

Steve Miller [01:22:33]:
Well, been around for a long time. So Yeah. Hope it’s been helpful. You know, that’s that’s the important thing. I really wanna make, help help your your listeners, your BFFs, have, you know, get great information.

James [01:22:49]:
I think you had more than a few nuggets on there, and I didn’t even know about the the stunt thing, the eight track thing, the Deming thing. I’m missing the sales.

Steve Miller [01:23:00]:
It’s cool. It was cool that you knew the I could tell. You know? I I I I I could tell when you said Demi. It’s like Yeah.

James [01:23:08]:
I’ve read

Steve Miller [01:23:08]:
Not very many people know that.

James [01:23:11]:
Oh, man. I’ve read a couple of his books, and it well, I guess, I used to be a mechanic way back when. So the American car versus Japanese car a while ago

Steve Miller [01:23:23]:
Yeah. That’s the now you can’t even tell, which is weird. Toyota story.

James [01:23:27]:
Yeah. So yeah. I read I read the Toyota thing. I don’t was it a autobiography of oh, man. You’re jogging my memory here. And then I read about, Sony with his whole stuff.

Steve Miller [01:23:39]:
Yeah.

James [01:23:40]:
So, yeah, Deming’s a Deming’s a sharp guy sharp guy. Yeah. I guess as far as that goes.

Steve Miller [01:23:46]:
He was yeah. He was he was, and and American companies did not like him.

James [01:23:52]:
I can’t imagine the meeting where he’s like, hey. Here’s these things, and they’re like, quality control. Get out of here. What are you talking about? Yeah. And as a guy that had a 1979 Chevy Malibu that I swear

Steve Miller [01:24:06]:
to god, I pushed

James [01:24:07]:
I pushed that car more than I drove it. And then you learned about Demi, and I was like, I feel like GM should have been like, yeah. Come on in here. We we could learn a few things.

Steve Miller [01:24:17]:
Just pushed that car more than I drove it. I love it.

James [01:24:21]:
No joke, man. No joke. But I guess that said, just like you I mean, you have some mistakes in your life. Mine was that car, to a point that just leads you to where you are now, and you’re like, you know what? Was it a mistake or was it

Steve Miller [01:24:34]:
just a mistake? Steve along the way. It’s it’s In you know, I am I I I say it all the time. I I I am the sum total of all the Steves before me.

James [01:24:45]:
True. So true. Yeah. That is it. I love it. Well, thank you so much, Steve.

Steve Miller [01:24:53]:
Say stay in touch with me, James. Thank you, man.

James [01:24:55]:
Definitely do. We’ll definitely do.

Steve Miller [01:24:57]:
Appreciate you.

James [01:24:58]:
Yeah. Likewise. This has been Authentic Business Adventures, the business program that brings you the struggle stories and triumphant successes of business owners across the land. My name is James Kademan, and Authentic Business Adventures is brought to you by Calls On Call, offering call answering and receptionist services for service businesses across the country on the web at https://callsoncall.com. And of course, The Bold Business Book, a book for the entrepreneur in all of us, available wherever fine books are sold. If you’re listening or watching this on the web, if you could do us a huge favor, subscribe, give it the thumbs up, and of course, share In with your entrepreneurial friends. Especially On entrepreneurial friends that may be in a commodity, and they just can’t seem to compete because everybody else is selling the same widget that they are. We’d like to thank you, our wonderful listeners, as well as our guest, Steve Miller, who In Kelly’s dad, as well as a marketing gunslinger.

James [01:25:52]:
Steve, can you tell us that website one more time?

Steve Miller [01:25:55]:
Beuncopyable.com. Be e, the word uncopyable, all 1 word, Com.

James [01:26:01]:
I love it. And then as far as books go, are they available

Steve Miller [01:26:05]:
everywhere? On. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Alright.

James [01:26:08]:
Awesome. Past episodes can be found morning, noon, and night at the podcast link. Fund at drawincustomers.com. Thank you for joining us. We will see you next week. I want you to stay awesome. And if you do nothing else, enjoy your business.