Nancy Giere – Course Creation

If you want to teach the world, either you need to spend a lot of time teaching, or a little bit of time creating courses for your students and clients to watch at their, and your, leisure.
Listen as Nancy Giere teaches us how to create incredible courses (Read: Not Boring) that your students will actually follow through on.
Enjoy!
Visit Nancy at: https://nancygiere.com/ Authentic Business Adventures Podcast

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You have found Authentic Business Adventures,

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the business program that brings you
the struggle stories and triumphant

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successes of business
owners across the land.

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Downloadable audio episodes
of the Authentic Business Adventures

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program can be found in the podcast
link, found at drawincustomers.com.

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We are locally underwritten
by the Bank of Sun Prairie.

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My name is James Kademan, entrepreneur,

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author, speaker, and helpful coach to
small business owners across the country.

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And today we’re welcoming/preparing

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to learn from Nancy Giere
of Nancy Giere Associates.

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So more than just a lucky name there.

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Nancy, how are you doing there?
I’m good.

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How are you doing today?
I’m doing very well.

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Why don’t we just start out with the base,
the foundation here.

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What is Nancy Giere Associates?

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I’m probably destroying your last name.

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Okay, well, it’s Giere, but that’s okay.

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How do you pronounce it? I’m sorry.

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It’s pronounced Giere. Giere.
I should have kept my maiden name I guess.

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I should have known that.
I’m so sorry.

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That’s okay.

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All right, well, let’s
talk about what it is.

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Anyway, so what is it?

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So my business is all about helping people
create courses, whether it’s

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an online evergreen course or something
they’re going to deliver via Zoom.

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Now that we can leave the house again,

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I’m back to actually helping people
with in person events as well.

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Really, it’s about me helping them

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turn their expertise
into a profitable program.

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And last year, I put together a flagship

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program for entrepreneurs that I’m
calling Bundle Your Brilliance.

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Bundle Your Brilliance.
I love it.

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Bundle Your Brilliance, baby.
So how did you get into that?

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I don’t have baby at the end.

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Well, I’ve been in the business of
course creation for a long, long time.

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And during the pandemic, everybody

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rushed to put stuff online
because it’s like, Oh, my God.

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What do I do?

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My business is I’ve got to earn a living.

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How am I going to make this happen?

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And what I observed in the market
is just a lot of mediocrity.

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And.

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Most people felt that, well,

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I just have my webinar recording and I’ll
put an opener and a closer on it.

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Now I have an online course.

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Actually, no, you have a recording.

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There’s a bit more involved in creating
a course in that you have to think about

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what do you want people to be
able to do when they’re done?

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What type of exercises or interactive
activities are you going to put in?

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What are you going to do
to make it engaging?

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How are you going to get them to not only
want to buy it, but actually finish it?

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How about that?

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That’s a big one.
Yeah.

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Because people get in and

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there can often be a fade, and there’s all
kinds of reasons why people don’t finish.

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It’s not always the person
who built the course’s fault.

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Sometimes it’s just people get busy
and they move on to something else.

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It has nothing to do
with. The next shiny thing, right?

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The next shiny thing is
I’m going to try this.

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Fair.
All right.

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Nice.
So with course creation,

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when you’re saying a long time ago,
how long are we talking?

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We’re talking years, decades?

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Decades back when Al Gore
invented the Internet.

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All right.
So pre, before courses were even really

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a thing online.

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Before, it was really cool.

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I worked in the corporate sector
early in my career.

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Alright.

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And at that time, you’ve got
to distribute learning to employees.

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And so we did it using these things.

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They’re antiques now for the kids in the

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audience, three and a half or
five and a quarter inch disks.

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Five and a quarter? I.

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Know, yeah, that’s how old I am.

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I look good, though.

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So you’d have to package up the

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disks and then some a printed
workbook and get them out to everybody.

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And then you’d have a new version,

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and then you’d have to call all
of that back and send out updates.

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So keeping things current was a challenge.

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However, we didn’t
update things as rapidly as we do today.

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Now, in the age of all these SaaS

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companies, every day it seems like,
hey, there’s a new feature.

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At that time, things

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were done on a more timed
release basis because just the cost

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of having to get
all of the new materials out to people,

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whether it was paper or plastic,
did take quite some time.

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I’ve been in the business of training

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my whole professional life,
which goes back about 30 years.

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A while.
All right.

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Just
touch on the technicality here

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or the technical aspect of this,
a one and a quarter…

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No, I’m sorry, five and a quarter inch

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floppy, if I recall,
is neighborhood of a mega and a half.

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Something like that as far
as space that it can hold?

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Yeah.
I’m not sure.

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Putting the whole course on there.

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These had to be just…

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They were multiple.

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They were chapters.

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You would send out multiple
disks for a program.

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Strictly words? Just words?

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They were words.

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They were images.

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They’re called authoring tools.

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We had tools where you could create things
with some degree of interaction,

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some graphics, but nowhere near
what you can do today.

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What I find interesting is
even though there’s lots of opportunity

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to create engagement, oftentimes
engagement is pressed next to continue.

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Somebody will get something on the screen,

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they’ll read it, and then
they’ll hit the next button.

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Well, you might as well
just give me a book.

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I do that on my kindle. I
f you wanted to do things that had more

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complexity, let’s say,
the term is a branching scenario

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where you go in, you answer a question,
and depending on your answer,

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it takes you down a particular path,
a choose your own adventure thing.

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Choose your own adventure for learning.

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So you needed programmers.

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To.

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Do that type of heavy lifting
in the background to make that happen.

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You needed videography
physographers, you needed technical

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writers, you needed
instructional designers.

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You needed really a whole team of people
to make a fairly basic course.

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Now, with the tools that are available to
us, really anybody can create a course.

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You need to think about things like,
do I have a decent microphone?

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Do I have good lighting?

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My slides and graphics well put together.

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So you can create it.

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Now, having said that,
if you want to get to another level

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of sophistication, you still might need
somebody to do video work for you.

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It all depends on the level that you
want to get the program to.

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It also depends
on do you want to do the work yourself or

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would you rather have
somebody just do it for you?

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I work with people in both ways.

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I have a done with you and a done for you
type of a service, so it depends on.

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Is it a skill that you want to learn?
Sure.

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Best use of time.

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Yes, time and interest
and what’s the end product?

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Will it ever get done?

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Probably the best question, I suppose.
I’d love to learn it.

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I’ll just never do it.

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It’s interesting because I
paid somebody…

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This is part of the reason I wanted you on
the show just to get your take on this.

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I paid somebody to help
me create a course.

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Man, I’m going to stay in the neighborhood

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of eight, nine years ago,
something like that.

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I supplied them with raw video footage

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and they transformed that slash
just slapped the logo on there.

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It.

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I don’t know.

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It took them a few weeks,
something like that.

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They charged a whole lot of money and then
nothing really came of it.

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And I feel like part of that was
because the course…

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I think after the fact, I don’t know.

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When I made the videos,
I thought this is the best thing

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in the world, and I was
going to offer it for free.

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I did offer it for free.

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I might even still offer it for free.
I don’t know.

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It’s probably out there.

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And it was one of those that

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if people liked it, then they would get
in touch with me for coaching, whatever.

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It doesn’t really matter.

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But I guess my point is, one,

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I guess there’s a couple of things
that I want to talk to you about.

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One is just the content itself.

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There’s refining, but it’s like
editing a really bad book.

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But there’s also
the marketing aspect of that because

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there’s millions of people
trying to sell courses

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that will promise you the moon, beams,
and rainbows and all that stuff.

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And you have to market through all

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that and try to promise the moon,
beams, and rainbows of your own.

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So do you help with the marketing aspect?

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I guess let’s start with that question.
I do some help.

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I do work.

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I have people on my team
that help out with the marketing.

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So my main place that I play
is in the course creation.

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Got you.
And I have other people that are

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on the team that will help with the
marketing of the program.

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And oftentimes, what people, I think,
forget is you want to step back.

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And the first question you want to ask is,

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what do you want people to be able to do
when they’re done with the course.

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Okay.

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And then what do they need to know
in order to be able to do that?

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And then there’s some content,

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is there a way that you want
them to feel when they’re done?

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And then work backwards from there

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and lay out your content and then look at,
well,

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if this is what I want to cover,
what do I already have in the way of video

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or other types of content that I can use
as is or repurpose,

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and then what’s missing
and how can I create a good logical flow

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through the program, ensuring
that I get people doing quickly.

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Interesting.

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When people come to you,
are they coming to you

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having already designed a course
and just wasn’t the greatest?

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Or are they coming to you
with just raw footage?

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Or they come at you with this
pie in the sky idea?

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It’s a mixture.

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One of the most common

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approaches that people have is they’ll
have written a book and then you say,

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Well, now that I have a book,
I’d like to turn this book into a course.

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So they’ve done a fair amount
of heavy lifting by creating a book.

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And then we look at it

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from the perspective of,
do you want the course to replicate what’s

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in the book, or do you want
them to support each other?

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And there’s some.

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Times, like I worked with somebody

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earlier this year who wrote a book about
mental health for pilots,

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and the book does a lot to raise awareness
and provides people some tips in of how

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can you be safe or how
can you take better care of yourself.

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But her course goes into a lot more depth

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and it really gives people
best practices that they can implement.

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Okay, this is a great example.

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We got mental health for pilots.

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That’s pretty niche.

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We’re talking pilots, right?
Check that box.

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Now we got a small portion
of the population.

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Then we have the ones that are interested

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in mental health either because they think
they have a problem,

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or they know someone that has a problem,
or they’re afraid that they’ll have

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a problem, which now you’re
niching down way tight.

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Then you get into someone that would

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actually finish a course like that and you
got two people, something like that.

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I was thinking about it the other day

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and there’s a lot of handw ringing going
on about completion rates on courses.

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I took a look at my bookshelf

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and I went, I have purchased quite a few
books, but I haven’t read them all.

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I have good intentions of reading them,
but I haven’t read them yet.

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I can’t help but think that I’m not alone

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in this, that there’s
other people out there.

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But you’re definitely not alone.

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It it’s unfortunate.

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I think it’s worse for someone to not
open up the course, open up the book,

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than for somebody to get into it
and then lose interest.

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And then we want to step back and say,
Well, why did they lose.

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Interest? s.
Ometimes it’s because it’s boring.

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Sometimes there’s a mism of expectations,

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like you said, but they’re promising
rainbows, whatever you say, right?

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Making a huge promise.

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And then people get into it and they
might go, I already know this.

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Right.

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And I’m looking for more depth.
So in their mind,

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they may be coming at something,
the description

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may make them think it’s what they need,
or they may just in their mind go,

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This is what I need,
and I think this is going to do it.

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So there’s often this like a mismatch.

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And sometimes it’s that the description’s
that they over promise.

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And sometimes it’s that the person is
coming into it and

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they have a certain skill level,
and the course may either be

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too much for them over their head,
or it may be, I’ve been there, done that.

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I already.
Know this.

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Okay, this is elementary stuff.
I need.

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To.
Pay for the college level.

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Yeah.

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I’m trying to go to graduate
school here, people.

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Got you.
All right.

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I think there’s a lot involved in
why people don’t complete.

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Sometimes

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real life and work gets in the way,
and somebody may go, Well,

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I had the idea that I wanted to
do this particular project.

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I wanted to learn more about

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how to do sales funnels or pick a topic,
and then they get into it and they go on.

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But then something else comes
in and they set that aside.

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And then maybe they’ll come back to it

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later, or they might look at something
and go, I don’t want to do this.

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I’m just going to hire
somebody to do this.

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And hopefully, they’ll hire
the person that they took the.

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Course from.
Yeah, right.

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Well, I suppose it’s the next shiny thing.

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Yeah, we’re always chasing the shiny.

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Yeah, a squirrel.

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So
it’s interesting because I’m just thinking

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back on some of the courses that I’ve
gotten paid for or whatever.

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Oh, my gosh.
Is it Udemy?

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Udemy?
Whatever?

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Yeah.
I got some courses through there,

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and I can remember one
specifically on NLP that I got.

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And I was chugging along

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and then I stopped because
they said something about a worksheet

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or something where I had to do
something beyond just listening.

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And then that’s probably been five or six
years that I haven’t touched that thing.

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You haven’t done the work seat.
Yeah, sometimes.

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No, because they’re like,
we’ll follow along in this next thing.

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And he starts off because before it was
just him on a whiteboard explaining.

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He was essentially
lecture. Yeah. Which I was just fine

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with because I was doing it, listening
in my car or something like that.

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But it is very rare that I
can’t think of any time that I would

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actually take the time
to sit in front of my computer

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and listen to some recording of a person
while I’m doing homework, essentially.

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Yeah, and everybody’s different.
Yeah, true.

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Because I think
there’s oftentimes somebody will watch

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a lecture and then they’ll go,
Well, what do I do now?

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I got this information,
but how do I apply it?

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How am I going to use this?
I.

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Bought some products
that were like a fountain of youth thing.

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Great.
I bought the fountain of youth.

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I was already committed to it,
and they said, but then they had some

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training that they offered,
and I don’t want the name names.

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And I went to look at the training,
and the training was continuing to tell me

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about why this fountain of youth is so
important and what it will do for you.

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I thought, you don’t
need to keep convincing me.

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Yeah, I’m sold.

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I bought the product.

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I want to know how to use it.

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I’m fast forwarding.

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I get to module 4, and they finally say,

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and here’s some tips
on how you can use it.

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I thought, well, I just
needed that five minutes.

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I think that’s where I think sometimes
this mismatch can come in.

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They were thinking, perhaps they
were using this multi purpose.

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Part of it was
their way to attract people to the.

[00:16:26.410]
Product.

[00:16:27.610]
And that’s perfectly fine.

[00:16:29.080]
But once you’ve bought it,
then you need to go to a different spot.

[00:16:33.890]
I wouldn’t have spent the 100 bucks
or whatever if I wasn’t convinced.

[00:16:39.240]
If I hadn’t.

[00:16:39.750]
Been convinced
that I needed the fountain of youth.

[00:16:45.000]
Because I’ve been doing this for 30 years.
Sorry.

[00:16:47.770]
No, I feel that there’s some courses,
I guess that I’ve paid for gotten that I

[00:16:52.050]
feel like they didn’t believe that people
were actually going to go through them.

[00:16:56.920]
So they got your money,

[00:16:57.680]
your hundred bucks or a couple of hundred
bucks or whatever it was,

[00:17:00.650]
and they sold you something that they
expected people to just not go through.

[00:17:05.230]
It’s an empty box.
Yeah, it’s an empty box.

[00:17:07.350]
Because I guess, I mean,

[00:17:09.000]
you with some of the books that you have
read, you’ve probably read them

[00:17:11.800]
and thought, man, they could have
summarized that in a paragraph.

[00:17:15.250]
I didn’t need 300 pages for that.

[00:17:17.080]
So it’s one of those, no one’s going
to go through the course anyways.

[00:17:21.880]
All we have to do is just market the hell
out of it and we’ll be all good.

[00:17:25.240]
We’ll be good.
Yeah.

[00:17:26.040]
They’re just going to buy it.

[00:17:29.400]
It’s also interesting,
I think that there’s

[00:17:33.160]
very well known people
that they’re doing great,

[00:17:37.200]
or they appear to be doing great because
they’re all over the place,

[00:17:39.530]
and they haven’t taken the time
to do more than just a recording.

[00:17:45.040]
Maybe it’s my own bias,

[00:17:46.800]
but when I buy something
and it’s a recorded

[00:17:50.800]
webinar and there’s people asking
questions on that day and it’s like,

[00:17:53.870]
I don’t care that Brittany
in South Dakota has a question.

[00:17:58.030]
I really don’t care.

[00:18:00.010]
And that there’s all of the bubbles and
the, oh, wait, let me share my screen.

[00:18:06.520]
Okay, everybody see my screen?

[00:18:07.760]
Well, I can’t tell you because
I’m watching the recording.

[00:18:10.010]
Oh, they didn’t edit.

[00:18:11.280]
They really didn’t edit it down at all.

[00:18:13.030]
They didn’t do any editing other than
maybe the front end and the back end.

[00:18:18.640]
And.

[00:18:19.920]
I just thought you’re wasting my time.
Yeah.

[00:18:23.560]
It’s super interesting that you say that.

[00:18:26.930]
So I have a call answering service.

[00:18:28.970]
I have my crew creating individual videos
for our clients, not for our clients,

[00:18:33.910]
but for training other employees
to answer phones for those clients.

[00:18:38.770]
And a lot of times they would take a Zoom
training and they would record that.

[00:18:44.590]
And then they would say, Hey, new person,
go watch this Zoom.

[00:18:48.800]
And it’d be an hour long Zoom.

[00:18:50.600]
And it’s the same thing.

[00:18:52.240]
Oh, what’s the password again?

[00:18:53.550]
How do we log into that?

[00:18:55.040]
Let me find it.
It’s in the upper.

[00:18:57.190]
No, the other upper.

[00:18:59.080]
All this babbling.
I’m like, Oh, my gosh.

[00:19:01.510]
We could have chopped off 30 % of this.

[00:19:04.080]
Because now we got the things, whatever,

[00:19:07.030]
let’s say it’s an hour
instead of 40 minutes.

[00:19:09.520]
Let’s 20 minutes for every new
employee that has to train on that.

[00:19:12.730]
So we multiply that
times whoever has any employees.

[00:19:17.200]
Oh, my gosh.

[00:19:17.750]
And then if an employee has to go back
to look at something,

[00:19:21.770]
we didn’t split it up into chapters
or we didn’t organize it in any way.

[00:19:26.520]
It’s just here’s this hour long program.

[00:19:28.070]
If you ever have any questions,
just refer back to that.

[00:19:32.320]
We’re embarrassed to say
that’s how we did it.

[00:19:34.730]
How do they find the info?

[00:19:36.360]
That’s for get something done quickly.
That’s okay.

[00:19:42.040]
But I think if you’re looking at something

[00:19:43.560]
long term and that’s going
to be more sustainable.

[00:19:47.210]
You need to do a bit more.

[00:19:49.240]
I had an interesting experience.

[00:19:50.550]
I had done one of my own events

[00:19:53.160]
and I forgot to hit
the record button at the end.

[00:19:54.950]
I’m like, I promised people are recording.

[00:19:58.040]
Some of the people that were there
knew me pretty well.

[00:20:01.650]
I said, Just do it again.

[00:20:03.080]
We’ll be here, we’ll be your audience.

[00:20:04.840]
So I thought that was great.

[00:20:06.830]
So I went in and I did it again.

[00:20:08.730]
And because all I was doing was delivering
the content from end to end and there

[00:20:14.490]
wasn’t Q&A, there wasn’t banter,
there wasn’t any of that,

[00:20:19.010]
I did it in half,
excuse me, half the time.

[00:20:22.800]
Oh, wow.

[00:20:24.800]
Because I think when we’re in the webinar
format, we’re also a little bit chattier.

[00:20:28.550]
It’s a more conversational.

[00:20:30.520]
Sure.

[00:20:31.650]
When you do a recording, it’s
more scripted, or somebody’s working off

[00:20:37.890]
of a key point list and you’re just
boom, boom, boom.

[00:20:41.110]
You’re going right through it.

[00:20:43.120]
I think we want to be careful with video

[00:20:47.210]
and what can we do to cover the content,
but do it in as little time as possible?

[00:20:53.760]
If.

[00:20:54.970]
You think about what’s going on on TikTok
and YouTube Shorts, in a minute.

[00:21:01.680]
People are, you can say
quite a bit in a minute.

[00:21:04.030]
It’s surprising.

[00:21:07.360]
Yeah, it is interesting the way
I guess even just 95

[00:21:12.010]
ish, whatever when the internet came
out, attention span is whatever.

[00:21:15.790]
Twitter comes out, attention
span just gets lower and lower and lower.

[00:21:20.760]
Now, if you don’t grab someone’s attention

[00:21:22.250]
in two and a half seconds or something,
I forget what it was.

[00:21:26.170]
But I’m like, it can’t get to zero.

[00:21:29.040]
It’s just going to keep It’s
got a half life, I guess.

[00:21:32.560]
Soon it’ll be 200 milliseconds
or something like that.

[00:21:35.630]
I don’t know.

[00:21:36.450]
It’ll be totally It’s like keeping
people’s attention, I think, because we

[00:21:40.800]
were so accustomed
to looking at something on a screen

[00:21:44.730]
from an entertainment point of view,
movies, TV, and now everything is

[00:21:50.040]
whatever, tablets, phones, but we
consume all of our entertainment.

[00:21:56.320]
When somebody’s doing a movie or a TV
show, there’s a lot of scene changes.

[00:22:04.520]
Unless you really are watching for it,
you’re not aware of it.

[00:22:08.030]
But because things are changing,

[00:22:10.190]
the camera angles change, the close up,
the long shot, everything else,

[00:22:16.160]
that’s holding your interest, too,
instead of just a camera on a set

[00:22:20.770]
and everybody is in the same place
and they’re just maybe walking around.

[00:22:24.480]
Or something.
Sure.

[00:22:25.000]
Just like you’re watching
a play or something.

[00:22:26.400]
Like that.
Yeah.

[00:22:27.190]
It’s a very,

[00:22:29.530]
if think our brains are looking for
change because we’re convinced…

[00:22:34.360]
This is just my opinion.

[00:22:35.490]
I’m not a scientist or anything.

[00:22:38.000]
I’m in.
A safe place.

[00:22:40.520]
You can tell.
Anyway, you know what I mean?

[00:22:41.840]
It’s all good.
But it’s my perspective is that you think

[00:22:46.800]
that creates a degree of interaction
because something’s changing?

[00:22:53.520]
It’s interesting you say
that because I was watching.

[00:22:55.650]
I grew up in the MTV

[00:22:58.570]
era when watching music videos
was the thing on an actual TV.

[00:23:03.690]
I was watching a video the other day
and I just shut it off because it kept…

[00:23:08.270]
I don’t even know if
the scene was two seconds.

[00:23:11.200]
It was like staring at a strobe light.

[00:23:13.080]
It just kept changing so fast.

[00:23:15.030]
And I thought, Who watches this
and doesn’t have a seizure?

[00:23:19.320]
But you look and it’s on YouTube,
whatever, and there’s five billion views

[00:23:22.320]
or something like, Well, okay,
apparently somebody’s either watching or

[00:23:24.870]
listening to it that has the skill
set to maintain attention on.

[00:23:29.830]
That. did they finish?
Did they stop?

[00:23:32.190]
It was weird because it was just bam,
bam, bam, bam, bam.

[00:23:36.360]
And all I could think
of, the poor editors.

[00:23:39.770]
They got to try to time
that with the music.

[00:23:43.200]
Where before you’d ever see changes,

[00:23:44.440]
I don’t know what typical
was every 5 to 10 seconds.

[00:23:46.790]
Now it’s every one or two.

[00:23:49.320]
It’s weird and common.

[00:23:51.840]
So it’s interesting.

[00:23:54.640]
Well, let me back up a step here.
Sure.

[00:23:56.350]
From
the people that come to you,

[00:24:01.650]
are they in specific industries
or is it more or less universal?

[00:24:05.600]
I want to teach people how to be dentists

[00:24:07.310]
or I want to teach people how to
buy unicorn, whatever.

[00:24:12.250]
It’s been interesting because I was

[00:24:15.360]
targeting thought leaders,
authors, speakers, and coaches.

[00:24:20.690]
I’ve had different people
show up that have wanted to work with me.

[00:24:26.430]
The most interesting lately was

[00:24:31.120]
a man who he teaches people
how to shooting sporting clays.

[00:24:38.400]
Wow.

[00:24:39.450]
Just the recording?

[00:24:41.040]
Yeah.

[00:24:42.480]
He’s written a book and he’s got some
videos that were done in the past. And so

[00:24:45.490]
he’s looking at, Well, is there
a way that I can repackage this now?

[00:24:49.400]
We know because of the type of skill,
eventually they need to be coached.

[00:24:55.600]
They need to be in…

[00:24:57.400]
There’s got to be a…

[00:24:58.450]
They can get some ideas and some

[00:25:00.650]
techniques, but they have to actually
pick up the gun and hopefully they’re…

[00:25:04.880]
Yeah, sooner or later you
have to pick up the gun.

[00:25:05.880]
Do we get in a safe place, right?
Yeah.

[00:25:07.510]
But there’s certain things that you can’t
learn the whole thing.

[00:25:13.560]
In.
An online format.

[00:25:15.680]
Sure.
I mean, it’s like bicycle riding.

[00:25:17.080]
Or something.

[00:25:17.530]
Yeah, there’s anything like that that’s
more of a motor skill.

[00:25:20.670]
I did a program for Pacific Gas

[00:25:22.720]
and Electric, and it was
their welding curriculum.

[00:25:25.110]
Eventually, they got to pick up the torch.
Wow.

[00:25:28.320]
Okay.
So this year, I’ve had a lot of people…

[00:25:33.360]
It’s been a real mix of people where I

[00:25:35.310]
can’t quite hone in on
what is really the market.

[00:25:41.520]
It’s been interesting.
The people that have shown up.

[00:25:44.650]
But have been targeting

[00:25:47.000]
a specific area of more, let’s say,
more an entrepreneurial crowd.

[00:25:50.320]
I’ve had a lot of people that are in the
coaching space, health and wellness.

[00:25:56.770]
It’s been interesting.
And it’s a bit different.

[00:25:59.880]
I also do corporate work.

[00:26:00.840]
And the corporate work, that’s been
mostly in the financial services space.

[00:26:05.890]
Oh, really?
So training, I imagine, people how to.

[00:26:08.890]
Pass the test?
More employee training than anything else.

[00:26:12.250]
Okay.

[00:26:12.790]
So like a mortgage company, insurance
company, payment solutions company.

[00:26:19.360]
All right.

[00:26:21.880]
So let’s talk about your life
and how you get into this.

[00:26:24.670]
So you’re working for corporate gigs.

[00:26:26.690]
What made you decide
to go off on your own?

[00:26:29.410]
Well, I went off on my own the first time
after I was laid off.

[00:26:34.110]
And it was like, well, okay, I

[00:26:36.810]
had thought about going on my own,
and I had an idea that I would

[00:26:41.450]
go and work for a consulting
firm and see how they operate.

[00:26:44.800]
And then after that, then I would
branch out on my own.

[00:26:47.310]
Well, getting laid off

[00:26:48.650]
just accelerated the timeline because I
was like, Well, there’s no downside risk.

[00:26:53.080]
I’m not walking away from a salary
because I’m on an.

[00:26:59.000]
It could only go up from here.
Here.

[00:27:00.810]
That pushed me to go on my own.

[00:27:03.870]
And then I was on my own for several years

[00:27:08.920]
and got divorced and decided to move to
California to be near my daughter.

[00:27:14.970]
I took a full time job when I got here

[00:27:17.080]
because it was like, I
couldn’t do the business development.

[00:27:21.190]
I just needed to get myself
grounded and focused again.

[00:27:25.970]
And after a few years, got laid off.

[00:27:28.490]
Again, which happened.

[00:27:29.840]
I had the option of either moving

[00:27:33.430]
to Denver or taking a package,
and I didn’t want to relocate.

[00:27:37.570]
So then I fired everything up again and
got rolling and then enter the pandemic.

[00:27:44.830]
And then the things just took some
interesting turns from there.

[00:27:48.030]
I imagine the pandemic was good
in that regard.

[00:27:52.410]
Yeah, it was good in that regard.

[00:27:55.320]
I think more
of the done for you types of services,

[00:28:00.320]
that’s usually the Corporation
that’s going to say, you come in,

[00:28:03.270]
you do the heavy lifting
and you build it for us.

[00:28:05.880]
Where the entrepreneurial

[00:28:06.930]
space, more often than not, they want
me to walk them through the process.

[00:28:12.410]
And then depending on what their skill

[00:28:14.410]
level is or the type of people that they
have on their team, it can be even a bit

[00:28:20.050]
hybrid once we settle on the design
and what are we going to build.

[00:28:23.690]
And then it’s like, Okay,
are you comfortable being on camera?

[00:28:28.770]
Do
you have somebody that does slides

[00:28:32.290]
and graphics for you,
or do you need that type of support?

[00:28:35.730]
Depending on working with somebody now,
he’s got a full team of people

[00:28:40.570]
that can do all of the graphics,
the video editing, all of that for him.

[00:28:45.010]
So it’s really more our working
out the plan and the approach.

[00:28:49.410]
So do you help them
with more or less curriculum?

[00:28:53.440]
Yes.
Figuring out what order and all that is?

[00:28:55.320]
Yes.
Okay.

[00:28:57.520]
Yeah, that’s a big part of it.

[00:28:58.810]
That’s the foundation for it all.
Yeah, that’s.

[00:29:01.960]
Got to be tough.
You want to start there with what

[00:29:06.680]
is it that you want to cover and what’s
the logical order to cover it in?

[00:29:09.920]
And then once you know that,
then you make the decision, well,

[00:29:12.550]
given what I want to do and who it’s for,
how am I get to teach it.

[00:29:16.600]
All right.
And you help them with all that?

[00:29:19.410]
Yes.
Got it.

[00:29:20.390]
That’s really the core of my work.

[00:29:22.310]
All right.

[00:29:23.400]
I want to talk about some of your clients

[00:29:24.750]
are working with your clients
because I imagine,

[00:29:27.200]
especially in the entrepreneurial
space, some of us entrepreneurs are big

[00:29:30.310]
heads and we get to be bossy
pants every once in a while.

[00:29:34.410]
So even when we’re hiring people
that were paying to help us,

[00:29:39.120]
we still think our opinion
is better than anyone else’s.

[00:29:44.360]
I don’t know if you’ve ever run into that.

[00:29:45.830]
And if you have, how do you deal
with that or work with that?

[00:29:50.010]
That’s interesting because
when people look at

[00:29:54.970]
whether it’s training or speaking,
everybody figures that they can do it.

[00:30:00.320]
What.

[00:30:02.720]
They don’t realize is that there’s

[00:30:04.290]
an underlying structure and approach
that you don’t know if you don’t see it.

[00:30:08.920]
That’s probably a good thing.

[00:30:09.990]
It’s like when you read a book,

[00:30:11.600]
you’re not analyzing, oh, well, this is
magical realism, or This is this.

[00:30:15.770]
You know, maybe the hero’s journey, and
that’s about as far as you want to go.

[00:30:19.650]
But people will often have an idea, or

[00:30:24.450]
I think the bigger challenge is they know
so much about their topic

[00:30:29.530]
that there’s a tendency to
either say too much or not enough.

[00:30:35.200]
They’ll assume, oh, everybody knows that.

[00:30:37.170]
Maybe not.

[00:30:39.730]
So it’s really helping them think about

[00:30:42.530]
what’s the journey that you
want to take people on.

[00:30:46.480]
Every now and then, people will have
ideas about how to do something.

[00:30:49.190]
And if I think it’s a little like,
I don’t think that’s going to work, I

[00:30:53.080]
will gently say that I
don’t think it’ll work and why.

[00:30:56.200]
But I usually lead up with, well,

[00:30:57.620]
have you thought about what
about if we handled it this way?

[00:31:00.600]
You could get to the same result

[00:31:02.890]
that you’re looking for and it
won’t be as expensive because sometimes

[00:31:08.280]
what people come up with, they have
a great idea that they want to do.

[00:31:10.390]
And it’s like, Well, have we got pixar
on call here to make that for you.

[00:31:18.080]
Wow.
Okay.

[00:31:19.570]
Getting extreme here.

[00:31:21.400]
So are you working with companies
all over the country?

[00:31:24.120]
Yes.
All right.

[00:31:25.600]
And how do they find you?

[00:31:27.960]
They find me through speaking
engagements that I do.

[00:31:31.690]
I do some of my own
events where I work my list.

[00:31:35.590]
I do a lot of networking and I’ve met

[00:31:38.080]
different people through
networking opportunities.

[00:31:41.010]
And of course, the best is when
the referrals come in.

[00:31:44.250]
Somebody that I I worked with a few
years ago just referred somebody to me.

[00:31:48.190]
I would have never found this person
in Hibbing, Minnesota, just saying.

[00:31:51.920]
Hibbing, Minnesota.
Sounds cold.

[00:31:53.930]
Yeah, it is.

[00:31:56.170]
It’s up north of Deluth, so it’s cold.

[00:31:59.120]
All right, very cool.

[00:32:00.590]
One of the things that’s interesting
in talking to you is I’m just

[00:32:05.600]
going through my brain about
how this process works.

[00:32:07.790]
I imagine you end up going through
these courses as you’re…

[00:32:12.120]
Are you doing the editing or do
you have a crew doing the editing?

[00:32:15.650]
What type of editing?
Oh, boy.

[00:32:17.770]
I didn’t know.

[00:32:19.490]
I mean, the written or video?
Yeah.

[00:32:22.110]
I guess in my mind I was thinking

[00:32:25.010]
the video, but I imagine the written
portion has to be edited.

[00:32:28.240]
Yeah.
I have video editors on staff.

[00:32:30.360]
Yeah.

[00:32:30.630]
I mean, oftentimes I’ll
work with somebody.

[00:32:33.290]
If we have a video, for example,
somebody will come forward and they’ve

[00:32:36.960]
done a webinar and they’ll go,
Hey, I want to chop this up.

[00:32:38.990]
And then we’ll look at it and see,
Well, what can we pull from it?

[00:32:43.400]
I’ll go through and I’ll look at something
and I’ll mark time codes or somebody

[00:32:46.970]
on the team will do that,
but that can be a part of it.

[00:32:50.400]
All.
Right.

[00:32:51.080]
And then there’s once we…

[00:32:54.150]
The scripts are written, there’s always
editing

[00:32:57.280]
what’s on the printed page and editing
what we’re watching or what we’re seeing.

[00:33:01.770]
All right.

[00:33:03.730]
Have you seen a common theme
as far as what people…

[00:33:09.480]
I want to say that they, I guess,

[00:33:10.990]
statistically
stay engaged with as far as the type

[00:33:15.050]
of person or how they talk, whether
that’s humor or man, woman or whatever?

[00:33:21.840]
I think humor always helps because

[00:33:24.360]
when people are laughing, I think
they’re open to receiving information.

[00:33:29.080]
You can I think you can

[00:33:33.250]
have a serious topic but not
take yourself too seriously.

[00:33:37.000]
Fair.
Okay, very fair.

[00:33:38.450]
I think another part is that I’ll see,
particularly in the coaching space,

[00:33:44.840]
is people will think that they’re
the only ones doing something.

[00:33:47.480]
It’s like, I got.
To tell you.

[00:33:50.800]
We’re all saying the same thing.

[00:33:52.480]
Other people

[00:33:54.120]
are offering the same types of ideas
like doing come up with a vision

[00:33:58.930]
statement, come up do personal
affirmations.

[00:34:03.050]
Most coaches will tell people these
are things that you need to do.

[00:34:06.690]
But the thing about
coaching, it’s the coach.

[00:34:09.160]
Oh, totally.

[00:34:09.720]
And who is somebody
going to resonate with?

[00:34:12.310]
You can have two people, same credentials,

[00:34:16.600]
one you’re going to love and one
you’re going to be, yeah, not so much.

[00:34:22.040]
Yeah, very much so.

[00:34:23.470]
It’s interesting because
I’ve met a lot of coaches,

[00:34:28.130]
like I imagine everybody has, whether
they’re trying to sell you or not.

[00:34:31.970]
And it’s interesting how some you just
gybe with and others you’re like,

[00:34:36.160]
I don’t know if I can listen to you
talk for another 10 seconds.

[00:34:39.160]
Yeah.

[00:34:40.290]
Who pays you to talk?

[00:34:41.360]
Yeah.

[00:34:44.400]
Very interesting.
Is interesting.

[00:34:45.910]
A lot of people are in the health
and wellness space now.

[00:34:49.880]
Okay.
As far as like…

[00:34:51.400]
Help me.
With that because that’s pretty good.

[00:34:53.350]
Okay, so health and wellness coaches.

[00:34:56.490]
So if you look at it, if you’re talking

[00:35:00.050]
about the two main components
when we’re looking at this.

[00:35:05.030]
One is diet, one is exercise.

[00:35:07.650]
Well, on the food side,
it should be pretty straightforward.

[00:35:10.850]
Eat less, exercise more.
Done.

[00:35:13.480]
There.
Two steps. Sort.

[00:35:15.160]
Of blood.
But there’s a whole lot that’s going on

[00:35:19.280]
in somebody’s mind
around, is it tied to emotion?

[00:35:23.040]
Is it tied to boredom?

[00:35:24.040]
So there’s all these other factors.

[00:35:25.330]
Think it’s good, right?

[00:35:27.650]
You got to have people work through,

[00:35:30.610]
getting people to follow
in an exercise program.

[00:35:34.530]
Am I going to really

[00:35:39.410]
resonate with someone where they’re
going to help me to do what it need.

[00:35:46.280]
I guess what I’m trying to get at is
it’s funny because when you think about

[00:35:49.490]
that as a topic, people should just
be able to do it, but we can’t.

[00:35:53.610]
So we do need to have people in that space

[00:35:56.650]
that are going to coach
us and guide us through.

[00:35:59.520]
And it’s got be someone that you can

[00:36:00.930]
connect with so you can really get to,
Well, why am I an emotional eater?

[00:36:07.230]
Why can’t I get my butt off the couch
and go to the gym?

[00:36:11.800]
That is interesting.

[00:36:12.370]
I’m not trying to reveal
too much about myself here.

[00:36:17.400]
It’s funny you say that because I guess it
never dawned on me that health

[00:36:20.390]
and wellness was so popular, but I guess
now that you mention it, it’s crazy.

[00:36:26.680]
I’ve met a lot of people in that space
this year, and it isn’t.

[00:36:30.590]
I find it interesting.

[00:36:32.330]
I wonder if it’s just because of what
we’ve all just lived through.

[00:36:39.490]
I would love to say that people

[00:36:42.050]
are making healthier choices since
pandemic, but from my

[00:36:46.650]
very limited and semi jaded perspective,
that is not the case.

[00:36:49.830]
There’s a lot of day drinking going on.
Well, yeah.

[00:36:52.640]
I saw people leaving the bathroom,

[00:36:53.800]
not washing their hands,
and I’m like, Didn’t we just go.

[00:36:56.200]
Through a whole thing?
Yeah, come on.

[00:36:58.290]
What I think is so funny is

[00:37:01.330]
before the pandemic,
I didn’t think anything about sitting down

[00:37:04.880]
at a bar and if there was
a bowl of nuts or pretzels in front of me,

[00:37:08.190]
just putting my hand
in there and grabbing them.

[00:37:10.720]
Didn’t even think about who might
have sat there before me.

[00:37:13.680]
Right.
Where their hands.

[00:37:15.480]
Have been.
Where their hands have been.

[00:37:17.050]
Didn’t even think about it.
Fair.

[00:37:18.750]
Or some of the cleaning practices

[00:37:21.330]
that a hotel said they put into place,
it’s like, you weren’t doing that before?

[00:37:29.160]
When you come o go to a hotel

[00:37:31.450]
and that little card that says it’s been
sanitized, what were you doing before?

[00:37:37.410]
For my protection.
Thank you.

[00:37:39.070]
Yeah, thanks.

[00:37:40.240]
Appreciate that.

[00:37:41.470]
Did you watch the sheets?

[00:37:42.850]
Just wanted to know that.

[00:37:44.150]
Oh, that’s so so interesting.

[00:37:46.930]
Anyway, I digress.

[00:37:48.450]
I wonder, you must be just an expert at

[00:37:51.930]
five million things if you’re
going through all these courses.

[00:37:55.710]
Well, this is the part that people find
hard

[00:38:02.440]
to understand
is, Well, don’t you have to be an expert

[00:38:06.050]
in everything to be
able to do all of this?

[00:38:09.160]
And the answer is no,
because it’s not my expertise.

[00:38:12.720]
I have to be smart enough to be able

[00:38:14.470]
to understand
what they are trying to convey.

[00:38:18.720]
But it’s about me helping them

[00:38:22.160]
take their ideas and shape them in a way
that people are going to be able to learn.

[00:38:28.930]
And I’ll often ask the question

[00:38:31.610]
along the way, Is this information people
need to know, or is this nice to know?

[00:38:36.320]
Because the need to know we want to put

[00:38:37.680]
into the training, and the nice to know
you can deliver through other vehicles.

[00:38:42.070]
But if somebody wants to get to the point,

[00:38:47.330]
whatever that is,
I want to play the guitar.

[00:38:49.840]
Okay, what do I need to know
to be able to play the guitar?

[00:38:52.480]
What are some things that are nice?

[00:38:53.590]
I don’t need to know there’s
20 kinds of guitars.

[00:38:57.360]
I.
Don’t know if there are,

[00:38:58.630]
but there’s there’s things that are more
enrichment that maybe would fall in

[00:39:07.130]
later or tied to somebody’s
personal preference.

[00:39:10.530]
So I want to learn a particular
style of music.

[00:39:13.670]
I just want to rock and
roll. There’s a classic, right?

[00:39:21.360]
I don’t

[00:39:23.600]
need to be taught about the classical side
of things if I just want to rock and roll.

[00:39:27.720]
And then maybe after I learn to rock and
roll, I’ll go, You know, I’d like to…

[00:39:31.190]
Maybe now I would like
to move to learn, diversify and learn.

[00:39:35.850]
But what is the main road to take me down,

[00:39:41.160]
to get me from where I am
to where I want to go?

[00:39:44.160]
And that’s the focus.

[00:39:46.320]
And frankly, the people that lose sight

[00:39:48.230]
of that are the ones that get frustrated
in trying to build something out because

[00:39:54.040]
they’ve got so many different inputs
coming in from so many different places

[00:39:57.800]
that they’re just like,
I just can’t do this.

[00:39:59.680]
It seems like it’s too much.

[00:40:00.750]
I always referenced when Snoopy was

[00:40:04.200]
writing on top of his doghouse,
it was a dark and stormy night.

[00:40:08.050]
A shot rang out and then he’s like,
Now what do I do?

[00:40:11.800]
Because he didn’t know how
that story was going to end.

[00:40:15.920]
That’s so interesting.

[00:40:18.930]
I guess it reminds me with call answering
for us,

[00:40:23.840]
a lot of people will say, Oh, you’re
not in the insert business type here.

[00:40:28.360]
You’re not in the health
and wellness space.

[00:40:30.070]
You’re not in the
whatever dog walking space.

[00:40:32.830]
You don’t know our industry thing.

[00:40:36.600]
And I’m like, Well, we know customer

[00:40:38.130]
service,
so 90 % of the job is taken care of,

[00:40:42.070]
which I imagine is the same for you when
you’re helping people get programs put

[00:40:46.570]
together, you know how to organize
ideas and thoughts, or they may have those

[00:40:51.440]
thoughts, but you don’t necessarily
need the thoughts.

[00:40:53.400]
You just need to organize them
and know how people learn.

[00:40:55.670]
So I get that.

[00:40:56.770]
Totally understand that.

[00:40:58.570]
I’ve done things in a lot
in the leadership space, too.

[00:41:01.870]
And the principles are pretty consistent,

[00:41:05.370]
but it’s just does somebody
have a unique spin on it?

[00:41:08.590]
Or for a particular type of business,

[00:41:13.410]
what stories can you tell
that are going to resonate

[00:41:16.600]
with the audience where they’re
going to go, Yeah, that’s my world.

[00:41:19.560]
That.
Makes sense to me.

[00:41:21.650]
One of the things that people will say,

[00:41:24.760]
Oh, I can do a leadership course
and it’ll work for everybody.

[00:41:27.520]
Well, you’re better off to niche it down

[00:41:29.090]
in some way and have it work
for a specific group of people.

[00:41:33.370]
And then once you build it out for one

[00:41:35.450]
group, then you can look at, Well,
could I deliver this to another group?

[00:41:39.110]
And how would I change it?

[00:41:42.200]
Yeah.
Nitches bring the riches.

[00:41:44.150]
Somebody on this podcast taught me that.

[00:41:47.290]
That’s so interesting.

[00:41:49.490]
Are you actually
taking video or recording these people

[00:41:54.090]
or these people who are
your clients or whatever?

[00:41:57.760]
I guess how in depth do you go?

[00:42:00.370]
Well, depending on the type of program,

[00:42:03.630]
there are some
things that people can do really

[00:42:07.650]
in their home space just by recording
on Zoom or a tool like…

[00:42:12.910]
And the one is called Camtasia,
where I use B cam and a stream deck.

[00:42:20.480]
And you can set up things pretty
straightforward.

[00:42:24.350]
So if you just want to be on camera,
Hey, welcome to the program.

[00:42:28.680]
And then you’re going to then
move into voiceover slides.

[00:42:34.130]
I encourage people to try to,
when they’re doing their slides,

[00:42:38.010]
set them up in a way that’s more
interesting than

[00:42:41.090]
just the way that in Zoom where you’ve got
the box and then you’re up in the corner.

[00:42:46.400]
There’s different tools that you can use

[00:42:48.090]
where you can actually put yourself
in a little window into the slide.

[00:42:52.910]
Then you design your slide so
you show up as a little…

[00:42:57.840]
Maybe you’re in a little circle
in the lower left corner throughout, or

[00:43:01.050]
you could split the screen
where you’re on one side of the screen

[00:43:04.760]
and you have text coming up
on the other side of the screen.

[00:43:07.630]
Those are things that can be done
either in the initial recording

[00:43:13.330]
or it could be done in a
post production editing.

[00:43:17.200]
It.

[00:43:20.000]
Depends on the environment.

[00:43:21.710]
Have they got a nice background
that will work for them?

[00:43:26.920]
That’s the most inexpensive route to go.

[00:43:29.750]
Or you can go into a studio and you can
have one to three cameras do a shoot.

[00:43:40.680]
It takes it up a level in terms
of what the output is going to be.

[00:43:45.010]
But it also increases the cost if you’re

[00:43:47.550]
going to go into a studio type
of a space because you’ve got

[00:43:52.130]
the cost for the day of filming and then
all the editing after the fact.

[00:43:55.890]
So it really depends on the project,

[00:43:58.790]
the budget, and how people
want to approach it.

[00:44:04.350]
I know someone, she does a lot of her
programs now that are done on Zoom where

[00:44:11.430]
she’s sitting in a wing
chair in her living room.

[00:44:14.170]
Everybody knows her in that context.

[00:44:16.850]
When she actually does filming,
she’s going to be in that wing chair

[00:44:20.810]
in her living room because
that’s how people see her.

[00:44:23.710]
There are other times where you want to be

[00:44:26.170]
on a set and you want to have
more things that are going on.

[00:44:30.650]
It all comes down to you’ve got to look at

[00:44:33.170]
what are the person’s capabilities
and really what is their budget

[00:44:38.160]
so that you can create the best
that you can within whatever your.

[00:44:43.110]
Means are.
With what you have.

[00:44:44.430]
All right, fair.

[00:44:46.200]
Is there a standard, I guess, or a range

[00:44:49.960]
for a given
program, let’s just say an hour long as

[00:44:53.630]
far as editing, for every hour of content
you got to edit for 4 hours or 20 hours?

[00:45:00.010]
It all depends on what’s the quality
of the footage that you get.

[00:45:04.680]
Okay.

[00:45:06.680]
And if there’s great footage

[00:45:08.090]
and all you’re doing is cutting up
segments, that’s pretty straightforward.

[00:45:12.880]
All.
Right.

[00:45:13.690]
What type of graphic elements
do you want to add in to it?

[00:45:17.350]
Do you want to have something like a lower

[00:45:19.720]
third of a graphic come across
the bottom of the screen?

[00:45:22.270]
So it’s all
how much are you going to add to it?

[00:45:27.800]
All right.
Fair.

[00:45:29.030]
Very fair. Interesting. Do you have
a favorite that you’ve helped produce?

[00:45:34.650]
Do I have a favorite course?

[00:45:36.680]
Yeah.

[00:45:39.600]
Gosh, I don’t.

[00:45:44.320]
Everything I work on, it’s so different.

[00:45:46.440]
Everything is so interesting from…

[00:45:47.550]
Do you have one that you hate?
Maybe it’s safe place.

[00:45:52.110]
I don’t know if they’ll listen.

[00:45:55.960]
No.

[00:45:59.520]
I just go along, we make it work.
All right.

[00:46:04.490]
Have you ever had
someone hire you where they were the most

[00:46:07.770]
monotone person you’ve met
and you had to really

[00:46:11.170]
stick some editing in there to make it
stand out or keep interest?

[00:46:15.530]
I did.
We did something.

[00:46:17.990]
It was a series of video testimonials
that we were going to roll into a program.

[00:46:23.680]
And one of the people at one

[00:46:24.790]
of the companies, as soon as the camera
went on, the guy just went, oh no.

[00:46:29.030]
He just went, he just
went, just went flat.

[00:46:31.890]
I encourage people, if they’re doing
recording

[00:46:36.410]
at home, to perhaps
have somebody on the other side

[00:46:40.840]
that they’re actually talking to someone
because there’s something about when

[00:46:44.310]
the camera just runs,
a lot of people, they get flatter.

[00:46:49.610]
They’re not as enthusiastic or as engaging
as if they’re talking to someone.

[00:46:55.960]
Just having a couple of people that you
can see and you can, in your Zoom box,

[00:46:59.270]
you can position them
so they’re right under your camera.

[00:47:02.240]
So you’ll do a good job
making eye contact.

[00:47:03.800]
Right.
That’s always tough.

[00:47:05.290]
I’m like, I need to move that camera
in the center of the monitor.

[00:47:09.160]
And then there’s tools that you can use

[00:47:10.840]
where you can actually, like you said,
you can drop the camera so

[00:47:14.000]
it’s on the screen, but then you got
to be able to see what’s on the screen.

[00:47:17.690]
It is challenging.

[00:47:23.720]
But most of the people that I’ve been
working with,

[00:47:26.110]
because they’re in that author speaker
space, they’re already good speakers.

[00:47:30.770]
And they’ve had to learn how to operate
on camera because of the pandemic.

[00:47:34.960]
They had no choice but to say, Okay,
I got to be good on camera now, too.

[00:47:38.560]
Yay me.

[00:47:40.480]
Here we go.

[00:47:42.880]
This reminds me.

[00:47:44.000]
I got hired to do a motivational speech

[00:47:45.890]
for graduation ceremony
that was going to happen June of 2020.

[00:47:50.890]
They reached out and they’re like, Hey,
funny story, it’s now September of 2020.

[00:47:55.240]
I’m like, No problem.

[00:47:56.410]
Then they say, Hey, funny story,
it’s now November of 2020.

[00:48:00.000]
And then they reached out and they said,
Hey, funny story, it’s going to be remote.

[00:48:03.730]
And that was when I was like,
I got to do a motivational speech remote?

[00:48:07.970]
And I think that that was the worst
presentation I ever gave.

[00:48:11.440]
I don’t know for sure because I have no

[00:48:13.170]
idea what the audience
said, but all I can imagine,

[00:48:16.550]
it was a high school graduation,
all I could imagine is these kids

[00:48:20.130]
in their living room with their parents
going through this graduation.

[00:48:25.120]
Graduations are boring
when they’re in person.

[00:48:27.090]
I can’t imagine just…

[00:48:28.520]
I don’t know how they did it.

[00:48:29.880]
If they called up names or something.
Like that.

[00:48:32.030]
Oh, my gosh.
Yeah, how would they have done it?

[00:48:34.320]
Right?
It’s one of those, I don’t know.

[00:48:36.480]
Maybe nobody watched it.
Who knows?

[00:48:38.690]
But it’s one of those things
where I’m like, I felt so bad.

[00:48:43.160]
I felt bad for the kids because that was

[00:48:44.950]
their graduation,
which is a big deal out of high school.

[00:48:48.530]
Yeah.
And they’re sitting in the living room

[00:48:51.510]
listening to this punk
with this motivational speech.

[00:48:54.590]
And when you’re normally in motivational
speech, you can feed off the crowd.

[00:49:01.120]
There’s energy in the room thing.

[00:49:02.760]
But.

[00:49:03.800]
When you’re sitting with your parents or

[00:49:05.090]
grandparents in the living
room, that ain’t the same.

[00:49:08.030]
If you can’t see them…
No.

[00:49:09.800]
Yeah.
So if you can’t…

[00:49:11.800]
That’s I think what…
No, it’s prerecorded.

[00:49:14.010]
So it’s all pre recorded.

[00:49:15.440]
Yeah.

[00:49:16.880]
So you don’t have any idea if they’re

[00:49:18.190]
with you, if it was live
and maybe you saw them in their living

[00:49:21.840]
rooms, you could tell if
they were with you or not.

[00:49:23.790]
And that’s where the recording
is challenging.

[00:49:27.160]
You don’t know if
somebody’s with you or not.

[00:49:29.120]
Right.

[00:49:29.550]
You re just doing your best
to get that information out.

[00:49:32.350]
Yeah, pretending.

[00:49:36.920]
To show up, your absolute best,
be engaging, be interesting.

[00:49:40.290]
But you really don’t know because

[00:49:42.650]
you can’t look in the audience and see
somebody either nodding their head.

[00:49:47.720]
Or.

[00:49:48.490]
Holding their arms and going,
Who is this guy?

[00:49:51.760]
Yeah, everybody walking
out and leaving, right?

[00:49:53.360]
There’s no body language to.
Look at.

[00:49:54.280]
Yeah, people leaving.
I didn’t get that.

[00:49:56.210]
Sorry.
Siri just decided to chime in.

[00:49:59.240]
I.

[00:50:00.960]
Didn’t get that.
Could you try again?

[00:50:02.430]
Yeah, we’re trying.

[00:50:03.730]
We’re trying.

[00:50:05.240]
This dude watches more
talkative than my old one.

[00:50:09.690]
Oh, funny.

[00:50:12.280]
I just wanted to be loved.

[00:50:15.200]
I put out some videos eight, nine years
ago, whatever, that are still on YouTube.

[00:50:21.930]
It’s interesting because
I was going down being a coach

[00:50:25.890]
pretty in depth for a while,
and then I got bored with it.

[00:50:29.640]
But it was interesting because I’d turn

[00:50:31.430]
on that camera and I had my studio,
but there was no one around.

[00:50:35.490]
And it took a few takes initially
for me to get used to just communicating

[00:50:41.290]
in just an empty room
in a way that was engaging.

[00:50:46.240]
Otherwise, I was like, Yeah.

[00:50:48.400]
It was tough to get in the like,
Okay, people are going to see this.

[00:50:51.410]
And it’s essentially going
to be like we’re live, but we’re not.

[00:50:55.310]
It takes more energy.

[00:50:57.010]
And it’s a new skill.

[00:50:59.370]
How can can I show up and be as
engaging as possible when it’s just me?

[00:51:04.030]
I just did some video series.

[00:51:05.950]
I don’t know when we’re going to air,

[00:51:08.750]
but it was around the holidays and it
was the 12 days of Bundle Brilliant.

[00:51:12.530]
So I had a video drop
every day to people on my email list,

[00:51:17.310]
and then I put it up on
LinkedIn and Facebook as well.

[00:51:21.330]
But when I’m going to record them that
particular day, my dog was being a jerk.

[00:51:26.970]
Oh, no.
Barking.

[00:51:29.370]
So I just picked her up and I was like,
all right, we’re doing this together.

[00:51:33.410]
So she’s in some of the videos with me,

[00:51:36.310]
but it was my strategy
because I wanted to get through it.

[00:51:42.130]
The other thing that I noticed
that happened is when I was holding her,

[00:51:47.370]
I had my energy
shifted and I was able to get through it

[00:51:53.410]
and I didn’t need to have as many takes
as when I was trying to do it before.

[00:51:57.720]
Interesting.

[00:51:58.290]
So I just somehow or at that point,
I was like, we’re doing this.

[00:52:02.600]
We’ve only got so much time.

[00:52:03.990]
We got to get this done.
Nice.

[00:52:06.970]
And people love dogs.

[00:52:08.390]
Ms. Money Penny, she’s a miniature
dachshund, so she’s very cute.

[00:52:11.510]
Oh, funny.
She’s at doggy daycare today because I

[00:52:14.430]
can’t always count on her
to be quiet during the recording.

[00:52:17.930]
Dogs in daycare.

[00:52:19.600]
I guess tired dog is
a good dog, I guess, in

[00:52:21.750]
my world.
Yeah, she’ll be tired tonight.

[00:52:25.290]
Super cool.

[00:52:26.320]
Nancy, we don’t have a ton of extra time.

[00:52:27.990]
Where can people find you?

[00:52:29.810]
Well, the best place to find me is
on my website, which is nancygiere.com.

[00:52:34.310]
And if you’re just listening,
it’s Giere is G-I-E-R-E.

[00:52:40.370]
And you can go to the website
and you’ll find my email address.

[00:52:43.950]
You’ll find a free download there

[00:52:46.610]
about ABC steps to create training
that sells that you can grab.

[00:52:51.200]
And soon there will be a link to a book

[00:52:54.210]
that has just been published and will be
launching early next year, early 2023.

[00:52:59.210]
What’s the title of the book?

[00:53:00.880]
The book is Bundle Your Brillance,

[00:53:02.390]
Turn Your Expertise
into Profitable Online Courses.

[00:53:05.720]
Oh, I love it.
I’m excited for that one.

[00:53:06.800]
That will be available soon.

[00:53:09.450]
Before we take off, I got to ask
you two really quick questions.

[00:53:13.010]
One is when you see courses from other

[00:53:15.230]
people that don’t have your brilliance
shining on them,

[00:53:18.330]
what are some of the mistakes that you see
that are just like, oh…

[00:53:23.650]
They don’t have a clear direction.

[00:53:26.610]
They don’t begin with the end in mind.

[00:53:31.610]
A lot of the engagement

[00:53:33.000]
or interaction is just for the sake
of it doesn’t really serve any purpose.

[00:53:36.560]
Okay.

[00:53:38.210]
It doesn’t further the action.

[00:53:39.760]
It doesn’t really help somebody.

[00:53:40.920]
It’s like, hey, now I’m just going to ask

[00:53:42.230]
you, we’re going to do a quiz
because I think we should.

[00:53:46.090]
Really, the main thing is

[00:53:47.730]
to not really think through
where do you want to get people to

[00:53:51.770]
and what’s the logical order
to get people there.

[00:53:57.520]
Got you.

[00:53:58.840]
That is the fundamental
part that is missing.

[00:54:03.290]
Just like any goal has an end in mind.

[00:54:05.360]
Yeah.
All right.

[00:54:07.190]
What are some things that you
just love to see in courses?

[00:54:10.090]
I love it when
they do interesting things with video.

[00:54:14.710]
I love it when the graphics are really

[00:54:17.850]
crisp and clean and
the photos are interesting.

[00:54:22.170]
I think it’s interesting when I see people

[00:54:24.650]
that they’re in the presentation,
they’re not outside of it,

[00:54:29.210]
but they figured out how to position
themselves into their slides,

[00:54:32.890]
or they’ll be on camera and they’ll have
text come up next to them that they’ve

[00:54:37.070]
really thought through, how can I really
leverage this technology?

[00:54:44.130]
And to me, I love to see it
when people can do that.

[00:54:48.450]
That is so awesome.

[00:54:50.070]
That’s so interesting you say that because

[00:54:52.240]
I’m thinking back when
I started these videos.

[00:54:56.210]
My business was Draw In Customers,

[00:54:58.440]
and my whole plan was that I would giving
business advice on a whiteboard

[00:55:02.170]
while I drew cartoons that had
relevance to what I was talking about.

[00:55:07.570]
What I did not have the brilliance
to notice until I made my first recording

[00:55:12.490]
was that I would have my back
to the audience the whole time.

[00:55:15.650]
Yeah, there’s that.
Oh, my gosh.

[00:55:17.550]
So I did my first one
and I’m like, this is dumb.

[00:55:20.690]
It’s hard.

[00:55:22.320]
To write and have it be next to you
because it’s like…

[00:55:27.920]
Yeah, it was bizarre.

[00:55:28.950]
And then I learned
after the fact that it’s very tough

[00:55:32.350]
to present and draw at the same time,
I don’t know

[00:55:35.650]
if my brain is trying to use two sides at
once, but, oh, talk about a train wreck.

[00:55:41.570]
So I had to redo that.

[00:55:43.510]
Best laid plans.

[00:55:45.010]
So, yeah, right?

[00:55:46.170]
Just get all excited.

[00:55:47.410]
It’s going to be amazing.

[00:55:50.080]
Well, now what doesn’t kill us,
makes us stronger, right?

[00:55:52.170]
That’s right.
Yeah, we just keep going,

[00:55:54.257]
Nancy, thank you so much
for being on the show.

[00:55:56.090]
Oh, you’re welcome.
Enjoyed it.

[00:55:57.970]
Yeah, this is fun.

[00:55:59.000]
This has been Authentic Business
Adventures,

[00:56:00.720]
the business program that brings you
the struggle stories

[00:56:03.530]
and triumphant successes
of business owners across the land.

[00:56:06.680]
We’re locally underwritten
by the Bank of Sun Prairie.

[00:56:09.200]
If you’re listening or watching this on
the web, if you should do us a huge favor.

[00:56:12.280]
Of course, you know what to do.

[00:56:13.230]
The big old thumbs up, subscribe,
and of course, comment.

[00:56:17.040]
Ask any questions that you may have
for Nancy and mention anything that you

[00:56:20.510]
have about your content because
let’s be honest, it’s tough.

[00:56:24.850]
I guess it’s tough to create

[00:56:26.650]
but it’s arguably tougher to stay
engaged or keep your people engaged.

[00:56:31.410]
That’s the name of the game.
My name is James Kademan

[00:56:33.720]
and Authentic Business Adventures
is brought to you by Calls on Call.

[00:56:37.000]
Offering call answering and receptionist

[00:56:38.610]
services for service businesses across
the country on the web at callsoncall.com.

[00:56:43.440]
And of course, The Bold Business Book,

[00:56:45.560]
a book for the entrepreneur in all of us
available wherever fine books are sold.

[00:56:49.560]
We’d like to thank you,
our wonderful listeners,

[00:56:50.670]
as well as our guest,
Nancy Giere of Nancy Giere Associates.

[00:56:54.710]
Nancy, can you tell us
that website one more time?

[00:56:57.570]
It’s nancygiere.com.

[00:56:58.910]
G-I-E-R-E.
I love it.

[00:57:02.550]
Super easy, right?

[00:57:04.400]
Past episodes can be found
morning, noon, and night.

[00:57:06.400]
The podcast link found
at drawincustomers.com

[00:57:08.870]
Thank you for listening.

[00:57:09.880]
We will see you next week.
I want you to stay awesome.

[00:57:11.910]
And if you do nothing else,
enjoy your business.

 

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