Rhonda Noordyk – Women’s Financial Wellness Center

Divorce is tough.  Not only do you have the emotional challenge of realizing that your soulmate doesn’t fit the bill anymore, but you have some logistics to navigate.  A lot of those have to do with money.  whether it is dividing assets or just finding what assets each partner has, it can be bewildering and frustrating.  Add in some professionals that you hire that may or may not be working in your best interest and you have a recipe for a grandiose feeling of overwhelm with seemingly no one to turn to.
That is where Rhonda Noordyk and her team at the Women’s Financial Wellness Center comes in.  Rhonda has taken on the behemoth task of helping women going through a divorce get organized and get done what needs to get done.  She does this in such a way as to help her clients and keep them sane, as they get the help they need to navigate the shark filled waters of divorce.
Rhonda started as a financial planner and evolved into creating a business that offers so much more for women.  Business is so good, take that as a good thing or not, that she has multiplied her business over the last year.
Listen as Rhonda explains what she has done to help her clients, to grow her business and to keep an eye on the future.

Want to hear more?  Hit it:   [themo_button text=”More Business Podcast Episodes” url=”https://drawincustomers.com/category/podcast/” type=”standard”]

Authentic Business Adventures Podcast


You have found
Authentic Business Adventures,

the business program that brings you
the struggle

stories and triumphant successes
of business owners across the land.

We are locally underwritten by the Bank
of Sun Prairie and of course,

past episodes
of the Authentic Business Adventures

program can be found on the podcast
link at DrawInCustomers.com.

My name is James Kademan, entrepreneur,

author, speaker and helpful coach to small
business owners across the country.

Today, we’re welcoming/preparing

to learn from Rhonda Noordyk, the CEO
of the Women’s Financial Wellness Center.

Rhonda, how are you doing today?

Hey, I am great, James.
How are you?

I’m doing very well.
I’m excited.

Yes, me too.

I guess I’m in the process of writing this

book on financial stuff, and I bet that,
you know, probably way more about it.

Well, you know, it’s

it’s my focus is really for women
that are going through divorce.

And so that’s really where
our niche and specialty lies.

Can you first.

I guess there’s so many
things going through my head.

One, how did you come across this niche
and get into this niche?

Yeah, so well,
so I started in the financial industry

back in 2002 and knew very early
on that I wanted to work with women.

Mm hmm.
Partly because I wanted to help them.

And and I was seeing the results
of helping them. Right?

I mean, I started in the industry when I
was twenty eight years old and I’m like,

OK, we could fill a room full of women
that wanted to learn about finances.

And women decades older than me were

listening to what I had
to share with them.

And I’m like, this is really cool.

So clearly there’s a need right for and a
desire for them to learn about finances.

So fast forward, I spent 12 years
in the financial industry and really

continue to grow that niche.

And I think a lot of times my male

colleagues were like, we don’t generally
get what you’re doing in there.

Like you’ve got wine and you’re laughing

and are we really doing
anything productive?

But we were.
And so long story short,

during that same period of time,
I was also teaching in higher education

and really had a passion
for education and empowering women.

So in 2014,
I decided to leave the financial industry

and open the Women’s
Financial Wellness Center.

So a lot of times people think
that we do financial planning.

We don’t.

I build on that knowledge that I have
from being in the financial industry.

But what we’re doing is coaching.

So helping with the mindset around money.

Education, so teaching
concepts and and strategies.

And then the consulting piece is really

where we’re doing the deep dive analysis
of the numbers and things like that.

So the business model is

very empowering to women so that as they
go through the divorce process,

they’re not only going through a divorce
process, but we’re using it as

an opportunity to teach them
some really important things.

So when they get on the other side of it,
you know, they feel empowered.

Interesting. So the way that I understand
your business, is it more or less a one

and done kind of thing? Or people staying
with you after they get divorced? Or

are you just essentially
educating them and then

fly free bird?


well, so what happens is I always say it
depends on where we come in in the movie.

Because if we come in the beginning,

we are with women until they get
through the divorce process.

So if they if they’re contemplating

but haven’t filed,
will help them with that,

will help them interview attorneys,
will help them put together a budget,

will help them organize
and gather all their documents.

So while our emphasis is financial,
we’re actually also holistically kind

of project managing the divorce process
as part of our services as well.

If we come in in the middle,

we get a lay of the land of who the
characters are and what the plot is.

It’s an excellent analogy.

I love that.
That’s awesome.

And then sometimes we come in.

It’s like almost the credits are starting

to run, like we come on in the eleventh
hour and we’re like, oh my gosh.

Like, we got to, you know,
we’ve got to make sure some stuff’s

buttoned up here before you
officially make it final.

But no matter where we come in,

whether it’s in the before
the middle or toward the end,

we always then do a session after, which we
call the divorce wrap up strategy session.

And what we do is we take all the things

that are in the marital settlement
agreement and we map on a timeline so

that women know what else they need to be
working at, what activities they still

need to do, what things
need to get wrapped up.

And it is at that point,

then we’ll make those introductions
to other professionals that they may need,

such as estate planning attorneys or
financial advisors, things like that.

OK. So we do that final wrap up to kind
of pass the baton to that next team.

You know, that then can
take it from there.

So our average length of time that we’re
working with a client is about a year.

And then once it’s over,

we do the wrap up and then we move on to,
you know, start that process over again.

So it’s a really I don’t know,

it’s a really sacred time of when we get
to spend time with these women that we see

them in their darkest, deepest,
most challenging situations.

And then we get to see them at the end

where they’re starting to kind of come
out of it and they’re really starting to

be a little more confident.
And then years later.

Right, we see them somewhere
or see them on social media.

And it’s like, oh,
my gosh, this is awesome.

And so it’s I had a client who was

divorced, wrapped up in July, and she’s
a very, very, like, talented artist.

And she I had her create
some gifts for my team.

And so I went over to her house
here locally to pick them up.

And she’s like, oh, come on in.

So I got to see her new condo

and she’s like, ready to go look like she
was making mimosas or whatever for us.

So she’s like, oh, the lights go.

And I’m like running around her house,

you know, turning on all
the lights and checking out her.

They said it was like,

I don’t always get to see that side of it,
you know, once the stuff is over.

And so I left there like pretty emotional,
like, this is awesome.

She’s doing really well.

She’s she’s redecorated
and this new beautiful place,

you know, she was hosting brunch the next
day, so she had all of, you know, her.

It was just really, you know, so she
had all of her decorations up for that.

And it was just nice to see full circle,

like they get to the other side
and they’re going to be OK.

It’s just hard, right?

Yeah, it’s I imagine
it’s a challenging time.

Like, I’ve never had to go through it, but
I’ve had some friends that have no one.

I don’t think anyone enjoys it.

No, no.

I suppose if it was enjoyable,
it happened even more.

OK, unfortunately, there’s
probably some truth to that.

And, you know, with covid, I mean,
it’s been interesting to watch those.

I’m very much like I
watch trends of things.

Mm hmm.

I mean, the divorce rate
has gone up since covid.

Thirty four percent.

Thirty four percent.

It was already high, wasn’t it?

So it was roughly 50 percent,
I imagine, right somewhere on there.

I mean, does that put it?

Thirty four percent above?

50 percent is it’s a lot.

Eighty four percent lineout.

And that’s going to be
60 odd percent, right?

It’s a lot.

And so all of my attorney
colleagues that we work with,

they’re busy.

You know, normally this time of year,
things get a little quieter.

It hasn’t been quiet at all.

Normally I can take off between Christmas
and New Year’s not happening

like it’s just been crazy and January is
normally about one hundred and thirty

three percent greater
than previous months.

So I’m not exactly sure what to expect

for January and twenty twenty
running out of marriages.

Oh, that’s funny.

Kind of right.

I know it’s challenging, you know.

So you how long have you had
this business started in 2014.

OK, so you started this business.

Was it triggered by meeting someone

that was divorced or did you get divorced
or how did you get into the divorce game?

So we started mainly because I had a bunch
of women that I knew that were going

through divorce and I kept
hearing a lot of the same things.

Rhonda, my attorney,
isn’t calling me back.

I’m frustrated.
I’m overwhelmed.

I don’t feel like I know what to ask.

Coming to the table on the financial side,
you know, my husband handled the finances.

I didn’t really handle them.
I’m overwhelmed.

And I’m like, enough’s enough.

Like, there has to be
a better way to do this.

And so right along that same time,

I had a friend who in her late
30s was widowed unexpectedly.

Her husband had a blood clot
after having an injury.

And so what I did was I had my divorce,

women friends and my now widowed friend
and I, we got together and I’m like, OK,

you guys tell me what’s working,
what do you like?

What do you not like?

And we had three hours
and a boatload of Kleenex.

Later I left there and I’m driving home

and I’m like, I’m going to find
a way to help these women.

Like, I’m just going to find a way.

And I didn’t know exactly what that was

going to look like, but I knew
that there was a market for it.

So that was really kind of the sense
of like I just was getting irritated

with what I felt like was
injustice that was happening.

Like, to me, returning a phone call

and treating people with respect is like
should be standard business practice.

But I totally wasn’t.
Yeah, it’s weird.

So I have a call answering service
and it’s interesting because we have some

clients you’ll bill,
for whatever reason,

have somebody call them
that they need to call them back is

something that we can’t do for them,
whatever it is.

And we have a few clients that are

notorious and just not following up on
simple messages that they need to write.

And then, of course,

that person calls back and sometimes
they’ll call back multiple times.

And we’re like,
look, man, we can only go so far.

We can’t hold a gun to our client’s head
and be like, just call this person back.

we had no intent that was so bad

at that because she would have people call
that got a letter from the IRS.

And so they call us and say, hey, I got
this letter from the IRS, we audited.

What should I do next?

And then is outside of the scope of what

we do or what we did for this accountant,
she she retired long ago anyway.

So we just give the message
to the the accountant.

And of course, it’s a busy time of year,
you know, January to April, whatever.

And so she wouldn’t call them back.

And these people are antsy, right.

They’re anxious because they got
this letter from the IRS and.


And in so they just want they want
support is what it comes down to.

It even know nothing can
be done at that moment.

And in defense of the accountant,
the accountant probably knew this.

But this person getting
the letter from the IRS.

That’s right.
That’s right.

So we could say, like, hey,
you know, she’ll get back to you sometime,

but they’d be calling nine times a day
just like they time and call back.

And we’re stuck in the middle.

Like, seriously, just come back,
give them a game plan.

Or acknowledge the message.

We’ll tell them.

Acknowledge the message.


But it’s so yeah.

We answer phones for a lot
of construction companies.

Oh my God.
I can’t even imagine going through

a remodel or building
a house though or ever.

There’s so bad in it.

And it’s like to your point.

Right, like, I mean sometimes it is

emotional and when you’re
going through divorce.


It’s emotional and sometimes people just
want to be heard and acknowledged

even if you don’t have the answers right
at your fingertips at that moment.


They just you know, I think they just want
to know that someone is helping them.


Or that there’s a clear next step,
whatever the next step.


There were like this is this is
the position where we are,

this is where your game pieces on the
whole game, your life kind of thing.


Instead of being like at somewhere we’ll
take care of it when we feel like.

Or it’s not a big deal.

Well OK.

But it is a big deal because right now I’m
sitting here with this piece of paper.

Like yeah.

What do I pay you for.

So yeah, I mean I definitely think that.

I think there’s a lot of similarities

with that and, you know,
what’s happened over the last six years is

as we’ve continued to kind of pull back
the curtain on some of the stuff that’s

happening with the divorce process,
the greater the need is that we have

discovered and, you know,
we first started working in Wisconsin

and I had done the you know,
did some research.

I’m like, well, there’s plenty of divorces

here, you know, just in a five county
region, you know, that could keep us busy.

And then I launched a podcast and two

thousand eighteen, which is called
Divorce Conversations for Women.

And of course, as you know.

There’s no boundaries with that.

So then we were getting calls and people
were reaching out, like, where were you?

Where have you been?
I started my divorce process.

I’m super overwhelmed.

I’m 100 grand into this thing.

And I don’t have a you know,
I don’t have a settlement.

You’re like, wow, this is crazy.

So we would get involved
and help women out of state.

And then

this last year in twenty twenty,
earlier in twenty twenty,

the vision when I started my business back
in 2014 was always to have a national

footprint, always to be able to reach
women, you know, throughout the country.

Mm hmm.

And so, you know, we’ve continued to do
that and organically that has happened.

And then 20, 20 happen.

And I decided to bring on another divorce

financial consultant so we could actually
grow the business,

and I’m glad we did,
because from the beginning of this year

till the end of this year,
we’ve doubled the business.


Yeah, in a good year.

So it’s been great.

And, you know, I think it’s it just goes

to show that, like the women that are
reaching out from other states as well,

they’re like, oh, my gosh,
where have you been?

I mean, it’s it nobody has ever said,

like, oh, this is you know, this is the
most ridiculous idea I’ve ever heard of.

They’re all like either they’re
in the midst of it wanting some clarity

around the finances and wanting help
with it or if they’re on the other side

of divorce are like, oh, my gosh, where
were you, you know, 10, 20 years ago?

Oh, interesting.

When I was going through divorce,

because there’s some misperceptions, I
think, around the work that we’re doing.

And that as a lot of times people think,
well, I have an attorney.

And the attorney is going to be able

to give me all of the guidance
and direction that I need,

and they the attorneys have a job, right?

Their job is to provide legal guidance

based on what the laws in those
particular states say.

That’s what their job is, right?
Mm hmm.

But they’re not doing
financial projections.

They’re not doing financial consultation,

as far as, you know, negotiating
necessarily and things like that.

And the negotiations are only as
good as the questions you ask, so.

Extremely so.

So if you’re not asking the right
questions and nobody’s telling you what

questions to ask, you know,
then it is what it is.

And and then you need the emotional.

So I would say there’s
three components to it.

There’s the financial
and the legal and the emotional.

And you need all three of those
as you’re going through divorce.

You know, if you have one without

the other, it’s the three legged
stool that’s missing a leg.


I mean, those are the three
main basic areas.

So, of course, you need all of them.

And I think the second thing, yeah, I’m
going to challenge that just a tiny bit.

And maybe this is the man bring in me.

But tell me about
the emotional part of that.

Because I guess from my point of view,

having never experienced this,
so I’m probably wrong,

but I feel like like my parents
got divorced and that was bitter.

This was quite a few years ago.

Well, decades ago.

And I remember them having a battle over

a washing machine
that I don’t know what they paid.

Attorneys on both sides is a
15 year old washing machine.

My mom was moving into an apartment

and she had the choice of like
700 bucks cash or this washing machine.

She had no space for the washing machine,

but she did not want my dad
to have a washing machine.

So in order to create a headache for him,
she created a huge headache for herself.

It’s just like, oh, my gosh.

So from that point of view,
emotion cost her a lot of money.

And so can you talk a little
bit about the emotion thing?

Just help me understand that aspect of it.

Yeah, aspect of it.

Yeah, well, and I think that’s a great

example of, like, how emotions
can get in the way of things.


And I think, you know, the emotional
part of it is an important part.

And male and female.

They deal with emotions differently.

And so I think it’s just a matter
of being able to have that

professional right mental health
professional that can help process what

you’re going through as you’re going
through the divorce process and give you

some additional tools to deal
with the stress related to it.

So I think that you OK,

and I think men are better or I
don’t even know if it’s better.

They just deal with it differently.

Like some of my male colleagues over
the years that have been going through

divorce, you would never know
they were going through divorce.

Like, that’s all internal,
internal, internal.


Whereas women, on the other hand,
want to talk about it and you might see

them cry more, at least publicly,
whatever, you know,

like they just deal with the emotions
a little bit differently.

And so.

You know, I always tell people you can

dial in the level of support that you
need, but have somebody there

that if you need to talk
to somebody and to your point.

Right, like,

you know, if the average divorce is
52 weeks, which is an entire year.

Yeah, I had no idea. Well,

you know, your friends kind of get
are like, OK, can we move on already?

Like, at one point are they going to say

this is old news,
we’re sick of hearing about it?

Oh, yeah, we’re sick of hearing about it.
Like, can you do something?

You know?

So I think there’s
they’re good to a point.

But I think having that extra team
of people that they’re professionals,

that’s what they do is to help you
through this process is really important.

And I do think that we need
to process through those emotions.

And I can tell the women that we’re

working with that have a mental health
professional they’re working with because

they they do have that extra layer
of support through the process.

All right.

So one of the I’ll give
you an example, James.

So one of the things that I have seen over
the years is like let’s say, for example.

We’re going there,

going through the divorce process,
and one of the soon to be ex-husband says,

hey, here’s the offer,
here’s what I’m going to here’s

my proposal to you just to settle
this thing and move on.

And, you know, the woman is looking at it
and kind of like to your point earlier

with the washer situation, she’s looking
at like, well, that’s emotional to me.

I know how to use it.
And even if I can’t, I want to use it.

I don’t want to let it go.

Like there’s all these there’s just
emotion around that particular thing.


There’s also the financial piece.

And so if they don’t have the emotional

on how to deal with that piece of whatever
it is of the property division

and the financial thing to say,
OK, well, let’s analyze that.

If you got X amount of dollars here,

you could go buy a new washer, you know,
like those simple example, right?

Women’s Day stock.

So then the attorneys like, well,

can’t you just make a decision
as a washing machine?

But there’s more to it.

There’s more layers to it.


And so I think, yeah, having those
three people is really important.

All right.
All right.

I guess.
Yeah, that makes sense.

I didn’t even think about it.

Is adding a professional
person to help them with.

Navigate the emotional

distress or overwhelm or whatever,
and I look at it, so I just I guess I’ve

been told this by my wife
that I look at stuff too.

She she claims to logically

that I’m just like it’s clear it’s
a washing machine

that even discussed it with an attorney
is not worth it because the cost

of the attorney is going to be
whatever opportunity cost.


And I think the logic piece for women is

there, but we’ve got to like we’ve got
to get through the emotional layers first

to tap into that logical
part of their brain.

Whereas if the emotions are clouding it,

we can’t even have those
logical conversations.

And I remember when I was in the financial

industry and and I had developed
a curriculum to help women navigate

through the divorce process and teach
them some basic financial things.

Mm hmm.
But we dealt with sections, chapters,

if you will, one through three dealt
with their attitude about money,

their relationship with money,
their mindset around money,

all those things before we would ever get
to having the conversation around

terminology and approach
and stuff like that.

All right.

And my male colleagues would say, Rhonda,
if your job is to teach them about

finances, why are you spending all
this time over here on the emotion?

And I’m like, because if I don’t
deal with this stuff first.

I can’t tap into the logical stuff if they

come into my great we’re going to learn
about financial terms,

we’re going to learn about the rule
of 70 to whatever it would be glees.

That’s fair.

I can I can totally appreciate that you’re
kind of laying the groundwork for why.

Yeah, which is a huge benefit.

Yeah, yeah, I can totally see that.

What should we think about it
from a business perspective to.

Like it’s the emotion.

Around why we started our business

and what we’re doing that helps drive
and fuel right and helps us get creative

and think through things versus,
you know, if there is no emotion to it.

It’s hard to tell, but, you know,

it’s just you lose your you lose
your motivation or your strength.

Or your resiliency.

You you get a challenge of whatever kind.


Employee leave and client
leaving, whatever.

And you’re just like, ohyeah.

But yeah, that’s fair.

When you bring your your emotion or you
I guess the correct emotion.


Or charge positive emotion,
you can get so much more done.

So that’s fair.

Yeah I can definitely see that.

And you’re laying the groundwork
so it’s not so boring.


And we have to give them the reason on why
they, why they should learn this stuff.


Because I mean it’s like
a lot of them have a lot of women that we

work with,
you know, their husbands handle a lot

of the financial stuff for a
variety of different reasons.

Sometimes it’s because that’s what he did
professionally, whether he was a financial

adviser or an analyst or
he was an H.R. and handled some

of the finances or he just loved
spreadsheets and loved doing it.

And it was like, great,

you handle that part and I’m going
to handle whatever this part is.

And it was more of a divide
and conquer and a, you know, survival.

When you have young kids and you’ve
got a family and all this stuff.

You handle that.

I’ll handle this.
You like that?


And so I think a lot of times women end up

feeling guilty around the fact that they
weren’t more involved in the finances when

it comes time for them
to go through this process.

Yeah, that’s fair.

I can my mom with a divorce,
she had no idea what was going on

because I believe this is I was
a kid when all this happened or.

Yeah, whatever.

She was just out of touch

with where the finances were, so
there was no she had no idea

when it came to numbers
plus or minus good or bad stuff.

I had no clue.
No clue.

She was just I think it
was hidden from her.

And maybe that was just
a generational thing.

I don’t know,
I think, you know,

women would be in a position of like
I don’t know what we have in the bank.

It’s overwhelming.

And, you know, I was thinking about

something recently that kind of applies
to like the business side of things,

which is,
you know, when we look at kind of history,

you know, from 1974 was when women could
actually for the first time get a credit

card or get a business loan
that didn’t require, you know, a male

relative to sign off on it.

Yeah, it surprised me when I learned that

I do I teach classes or used to teach
classes back when you could teach classes

for Winnik Lessons Business
Initiative Corp.

, which was designed to be a cosigner
for business loans for women.

And I’m like, what?

Come on,

it’s like 1918 or something where

we weren’t as progressive
reforms not that long ago.

No, it isn’t.

And so if we look at so now we’ve got
this generation, right, of women.

The most of the women that we serve
are 45 to 65 kind of bookends.

But, of course,
a little bit on both sides of that.

But, you know, so the women that are

in that age range, it was their parents
that were still in that mindset.

Mm hmm.

And, you know, and so depending on why
women got married, they’ve got this 20,

30 year history with their spouse
kind of relying on them.

So they went from this
mindset with their parents.

Of women really didn’t have

the opportunity to to take risks or,
you know, have ownership of things.

That their parents by default were

teaching them because
that’s what was allowed.

And then they go into a marriage where

their husband handled everything
and they’ve missed decades and decades

of opportunity to be able
to learn how to step into risk.

And I think that’s one of the biggest

challenges I, I see with women,
is that they’re afraid.

They’re afraid to take on risk.

Oh, now, guys, on the other hand,
right, they’ll take on risk.

They’ll invest in a business.

They’ll take out a loan.

I mean, a lot of times.

And I know we’re talking in generalities,

but a lot of the women that I that I talk
to, they have a hard time with that.

Well, I don’t have the money to invest
in X, Y, Z, or I’m not able to.

And some of it is reality
and some of it is.

I’ll give you an example.

So we have a bank that we work with here
locally and I’m working on hopefully

creating some others and other communities
as well, where we have

an agreement that they set aside funds
specifically to help women that need

to pay for the upfront
costs of their divorce.

OK, OK, so it’s not that they
don’t have access to them.

It’s not that they don’t have money.

It’s that they don’t have
access to the money right now.

Oh, because in the joint say or maybe
even an account in the husband’s name.

And they don’t want to take it out or

they’re afraid or they don’t have
a credit card in their name.

Whatever the situation might be,
there’s usually something to work with.

They just don’t have the funds available,

either physically available or emotionally
available to take the money out to get

started because there’s an upfront
cost to get started with divorce.


So we developed this program
and it’s you’re going to die because as

a business owner,
I’m like, this is amazing.

And it actually came out of I was I was
teaching at Waukesha County Technical

College, so in higher education,
in the business division, teaching,

marketing and public speaking
and stuff for entrepreneurs.

Oh, nice.

And they came up with a program
that would allow the business owners have

access to this pool of money
where they could then take this five

thousand dollar unsecured loan at one
percent interest over three years.

I’ll let that sink in for a sec.
That’s awesome.

Mm hmm.

And that would allow entrepreneurs

to maybe invest in a website or invest in,
you know, training or invest in something

that they might need
for their business, right?

Mm hmm.
And so I was teaching loved that.

I’m like, oh, my gosh.
Like, this is such a no brainer.

Like, oh, this is amazing.

And all they had to do is show
that they had a business plan.

And and so there was no
it wasn’t collateralized.

It they just had access to this
money at one percent interest.

Or three years.

So of course, as a business owner,

I’m like, how do I get access
to some of that money?


And so we worked it out where
I took a couple extra classes.

So I met the requirements.

And then in addition to once I was

teaching and I was the first
one to go through this program.


So I presented my business plan to the
president of the bank and he loved it.

And then I went back and they gave me
a check for five thousand dollars

and I deposited it into my account
and used it for business expenses.

And I’m like, well, this is great.

So a year later I went to that same bank

and I pitched the idea to them and said,
hey, what do you guys think about doing

something like that program for women
that are going through divorce?

And they said at first they are like,
let us think about it.

How about a credit card at zero
percent interest for 18 months?

I’m like, sure.

So we started doing that.

And then one day they called and said, oh,
hey, by the way, we just approved your

program and we want
to launch this program.

Wow, that’s a Google.

That’s cool.

I was like, yeah, that really that works.

So we so they set aside

enough for ten women to have
access to five thousand dollars

and they can pay interest only

at seventeen dollars a month until they
either get access to some of the money

to pay it off or the divorce
is final and then they pay.

The goal is that they would pay that loan
off in full, whatever the balances do,

so that then we can use those
funds to help somebody else.

All right.

And cool program.
It’s awesome.

We have I think we have six out
of the 10 people so far that have UCITS.

We have four spots open still.

But what’s been interesting is now this is
kind of the tieback on the mindset piece,

and that is there’s been women that have
reached out and I’m like, OK,

I think we’d be able to like I think
we would be able to help them.

And B, I think they’re a good candidate
for the program and they get approval.

They have to have over
a six twenty five credit score.

OK, so as long as they
have over six twenty five.

It’s an automatic approval.


Wow, as long as they came through
US Women’s Financial Wellness Center.

Mm hmm.

And as long as I know we’re
going to be helping them.

So there’s it’s exclusive for our clients.

Oh, it’s even cooler.
Mm hmm.

All right.
So then I guess from the bank’s point

of view, they know that someone
is holding their hand.

The next steps.

Instead of just like here’s some money.

Good luck.

But what’s interesting is there have been

women who, again, we’ve eliminated
every possible barrier physically.


And they say, oh, I don’t feel
comfortable taking on a loan.

And I’m like, I get that, OK?

Nobody wants to take out a loan.

Nobody wants to go into debt.

But it’s temporary.

And what other option do
you have at this point?

Because you have no access to money,
even though there’s money there

because your spouse is locked
you out of everything.

It’s a it’s a means to an end, I guess.

So it seems like one of those things where

it’s a tool that you may not like using,
but it’s the best option that you have.


And in the end, let’s say,
three, five years down the road.

It’s going to be a memory and a good story

so I can write something
still looming, right?

And at one percent interest,
it’s basically free money.

That’s the thing.

Like we got to get our head around,
you know, we got to get our head around

changing, I think as women in particular,
the paradigm around that,

like there’s so much they felt like it
was so heavy and negative where it isn’t.

And I’m like, OK,
it’s five thousand dollars.


This is a great stepping stone
for women who want to buy a house

or a car or go back to college,
like those price tags on those items are

going to be significantly
higher than this.

Five thousand dollars, right?

Mm hmm.
And we got to get comfortable with that.

And we got we it’s not that we do stuff

you know, doing the research

and understanding the program
and having a plan.


But it’s OK to take
a little bit of a risk.

Oh, absolutely.

And this seems like a negligible risk,

That’s right.
One percent interest unsecured or

so we you know.
So it’s a matter I think to of like.

You know, really, again,

I’m not in the business of convincing
people that they need to take out a loan.

That’s not my job.

But I do think that there’s a really like
any time I have an opportunity to share

on a platform like, listen, we got
to change our mindset around the stuff.

We can’t go back to 1974 when women

couldn’t like you now could
start to make decisions.

Women can start to make decisions that men

have been making for a long time,
that you guys have had more experience.


To be more comfortable
with those decisions.

It’s not that women aren’t smart
enough or able to do that.

It’s just they don’t have
necessarily the experience.

And one of the formulas that I love

to share is, OK, how do we
get to that confidence piece?

And it’s knowledge plus experience
that builds the confidence.

Because, right.

If we have the knowledge without
the experience, it’s theory.

If we have the experience, without
the knowledge, it’s trial and error.

All right.
Let’s do that.

Look, good luck to you.

You know, like but if we have those
two things working together, right.

It can be a really powerful way for women

to go through and walk through the divorce
process, learning along the way.

So when they come out of it, they feel
really good about, you know what?

I think I could
get prequalified for a home,

yeah, you know, or again,
and it’s not that they have to be

an expert, they just have to be really
good at asking questions like, hmm,

tell me more about that or
what does that mean?

You know, and most of the time,

the people that they’re working with,
if they’re working with the right people,

are going to be like they
love the opportunity.

Right, to take a minute and share
their knowledge with somebody.


That is cool.

And it sounds like that’s a fairly
recent program, is that right?

Yes, so we launched that about
nine months ago or so.

Oh, wow.
OK, so we reason.

Nice. So how do people I guess besides
super awesome podcasts like this,

how do people learn about programs like
that or that program specifically?

So it’s not something that we publicize
on the website or anything like that.

It’s really, you know,
when we do discovery calls

and we think that somebody may be a good

fit for it, we’ll share
that opportunity with them.

So if there are people that are listening,
that are contemplating or going through

we offer a free 30 minute strategy call

where we can hop on and find out a little
bit more about their situation and maybe

ask some burning, you know, answer some
burning questions that they have, right?


And then if they decide to that they want
to move forward with some of our services,

then we can certainly
recommend that as an option.

All right.
Yeah, cool.

So since you started this in 2014,

it sounds like quite a bit has changed
in the divorce industry.

Is that safe to say?
Mm hmm.

OK, so are you where you thought you
would be when you first started in 2014?

I love that question.

I get kind of emotional about
that because, you know, when I was.

Well, no, I mean, I I in a good way,
like I was sitting in my office.

In 2014,
and the question I asked myself was,

what do I want my business to look
like five years from now, huh?

Great question, right.

And I thought, well, I can stay the course
and stay in the financial industry

and have more assets and more
revenue and more clients.

Mm hmm.

Or I can go a different direction
and really be able to impact even more.

Women across the country have a niche
business that I know there’s a need for

and see where it goes.

I have to be honest, I.

I think it’s exceeded my expectations.

Oh, that’s awesome.

Yes, incredible.

And the reason for that is because,

you know, the podcast wasn’t
on my radar when we first started.

Right, in 2014.

There were.

The video shows, right?

I know, and I’ve been on TV, so, I mean,
you know, that was cool,

but like there there wasn’t as much
opportunity as we have today, right.

To be able to reach more people so easily.

Oh, yeah.

So that’s been really good.

You know, we have clients all over

the country, so that was kind of like
a twinkle of a vision.

But I didn’t know how
I was going to do it.

You’re like, OK, I’m in Milwaukee.

How do I reach people in California?

How do I reach people in Washington?


so we’ve done that on a variety
of different ways.

The podcast has certainly helped.

We’ve done specific
marketing to specific areas.

And about a year and a half ago,
I got an additional credential,

which is the certified divorce
financial analyst credential.


And I know it is specific
and it’s really I mean,

it’s very well recognized in the divorce
space as being a financial expert.

And we can also provide,

like expert witness like testimony
in the courtroom with that.

Oh, that’s super cool.

So it’s a pretty big deal.

But then I got involved with other
national organizations and started to meet

some of the key people
in the divorce space as well.

And that’s helped launch that.

And, yeah, I mean, we we are in a really,
really good spot,

you know, six years into it.

So we’ve exceeded pretty much everyyeah.

Literally every expectation.

I mean, revenue wise,
client wise, reach wise.

You know, I think as we move into this
next year, one of the things that I’ve

been thinking about is
the fact that, you know,

business and particularly divorce rate,
it’s not black and white.

And so it’s continuing
to be more of a voice

for women.

I mean, when we first started
the business, the feeling was very like,

I don’t know, I guess you could
say like therapeutic, right?

Like, very supportive.

We did a lot of groups
and workshops and stuff like that.

And now I would say it’s more

advocating, like we’re in the meetings
were in, the mediation’s were running,

the numbers were, you know,
communicating more with the attorneys.

And some attorneys love
us and some hate us.

And the ones that hate us are only because

we are actually asking questions
that probably should have been asking,

you know.

But we’ve been able to I guess I
would say, James, we can this year.

I think we’re going to be more bold.

I love it.
And, you know,

kind of shake things up a little bit.
That’s fair.

That’s fair.

I want to ask you, initially,
when you first started your business,

just to help people that are considering
starting a business of any kind.

You had your clients from the financial
world, did you, to market your business,

did you initially reach out to some
of them that were getting divorced or how

did you launch your business
from a marketing perspective?

Yeah, I mean, I really
focused a couple of things.

One is with the strategic partners that I

had relationships with from
the financial industry.

So like attorneys and CPAs and therapists

and mortgage brokers and created
this community for them.

But I always look at stuff in like

a triangle, and so I think this
might be helpful for people.

So if we take that triangle and we divide

it into thirds,
so the bottom layer and then the middle

layer and then the top layer, the bottom
layer is like the awareness piece.

It’s low impact marketing.

So it’s things like,

you know, ads in a magazine or
a business card somewhere.

Or we could even say social
media to some degree.


Like the goal is just to let people know,
like, hey, I’m open for business.


So that’s an important piece of it,
but again, we have to have realistic

expectations for that awareness
because if we put an ad somewhere

and nobody calls us and we’re like,
well, the ad didn’t work.

Well, no, the ad maybe did what it was

supposed to do,
but it doesn’t mean automatic conversion.

So we can’t just do those things, right?

What you have going on.

Is a bigger ticket.


It’s like you’re selling
songs or something like that.

This is a huge someone has to see it.

The target market,

like going through a divorce or
in the process where you would fit.

Understand what you do.

So I imagine there’s
an educational system.


Like there’s a you window ordering website
and we’re still trying to navigate my

marketing because it’s such like it’s
a 10, 20 thousand dollar layout.

It’s not going to be just like oh yeah.

Windows twenty grand.

No problem.

So it’s interesting when you talk about
like, hey, we throw out these ads and we

didn’t necessarily get
a client directly from them.

I guess the ads didn’t work like this.

I don’t know exactly what you guys charge,

but I imagine it’s more than
just a couple of bucks.

So there’s.
Yeah, yeah.

It’s a bigger decision making process.
It is.

It is.
And I think the you know,

so it’s going into it like any time
that I’m evaluating those kinds of things,

I’m like, OK,
what do I want this to do for me?

Because if I just want clients that don’t

waste your time, money or energy,
if you want to be seen somewhere

as part of the overall picture,
then I think it can make sense.

So that was one piece of it then,

the middle layer is like mid range impact,
so that’s things that focus on education

and help position
us as the business owners, as the expert.


So that’s things like podcasts,
blog articles, guest blog articles,

speaking engagements,
written articles, things like that.

All right.
Oh, you can share.

And I think that was interesting for me,
like the first time that I did that.

And someone said, OK, well,
give us your top three and I’m like.

I’m so used to like

reiterating other articles that I’ve
written or read or whatever,

I’m like I get to pick like
what the top three are like,

oh my gosh.

Like and I think we forget that, like,
we are the experts in our field and we

know more than than people because
we’re experts in our particular area.

Mm hmm.

So I had I came up with the three
things and I was like, OK.

And so that’s kind of where it started was

me starting to see myself as the expert
to say, listen, I have things to share.

And I think if I was always waiting

for somebody else to feed me the content
or feed me those articles,

I there’s value in reading those
things, don’t get me wrong.

But we can take that information
and synthesize that through our lens

and then share that information
as the expert.


So that’s been really fun.

TV interviews, radio interviews, you know,
all of those media related things.

Again, it’s positioning us as the expert.

And thankfully today, you know,
and a little bit when I first started

my business, you could take
those links and share them.

So you’re getting you know,
it’s not just a one hit wonder of if you

don’t see me on TV at nine
o’clock on Tuesday to bad.

So sad DVR.

Yes, exactly.
And we do that.

But we now have the link.

Right, that we can share on our website

and social media and whatever,
where the amount of hits that we’re

getting on those particular
interviews, for example, are

lasting a lot longer and the impact

lasting a lot longer than if
it was just on the TV itself.

All right.

And those have helped.

Again, even being on TV and radio,
it’s not like all of a sudden the phone

starts ringing off the hook,
like people will see you and they’ll

they’ll acknowledge it and it
might spark something.

And like one of the times I was on TV,
I think we got five people that reached

out and I think we got
two clients from it.

That’s huge.

I assume that’s huge.

I mean,

it’s good, right, and then and then it’s
again that lasting the impressions, right.

Later, where you’re like, yeah,
I’ve been on Fox six News or I’ve been

on TMJ for I’ve been
on Wissen or whatever it is.

Right, like those are the things that then

you can start to build that branding
on your website, on marketing materials

that give you that extra
layer of credibility.

Mm hmm.

And then the top layer of our triangle is
the influence affiliate kind of feeling

where, you know, when you have
those people that say, I mean,

there’s there was an attorney who joined

one of the women’s networking
groups I’m part of.

And there’s about 100 people in this
group and they all know what I do.


And I mean, every time she would introduce

herself to somebody as being a divorce
attorney, they’re like,

you should talk to rather you
should talk to your doctor, Rhonda.

And I’ve got all these, like, ambassadors.

Right, for what I’m doing, because
we have niched it so clearly that people

aren’t trying to say, I don’t know,
is the good fit for her?

They they’re not trying to qualify.
Mm hmm.

Which I think a lot of times if people

aren’t sure what you do,
that’s what they’ll do.

Like when I was in the financial industry,

everybody wanted to tell me, well, Rhonda,
everybody needs financial planning.

No doubt.
I don’t disagree with that.

Mm hmm.

But I don’t have to be the one person
that’s going to help everybody.

I’m going to help them lean.

Nor could I.
That’s exactly it.

Like to think that I could help.

Every single person is ridiculous.

Nor do I want to I want to help the women
because I’m passionate about helping them.

I’m seeing the impact.
I love it.

Somebody else is going
to have to help the guy.

Somebody else is going
to have to help the couples.

But there’s plenty of opportunity there.

And I don’t think that they ever really

understood exactly what I was doing
because they felt like I was leaving

business on the table by not
going after everybody.

That makes sense.

Yeah, like, why wouldn’t you
help these people there?

You know, whatever.

I don’t know.

I just interviewed a guy
and his last name is.

No, it’s a different guy.

as podcast,

and he pointed out that the niches are
in the riches or the niches bring

the riches, yepp is interesting talking
to him because I was like, what?

But the more he was talking about it
online, it makes sense because then people

know you and they know
precisely what you do totally.

And it makes referring you so much easier
because they’re not sending you everybody.

It’s asking them to think of everybody.
That’s right.

You just connecting the dots
with divorce equals Rhondda like.

Is the easy.

Like easy, super easy.

And, you know, we have a lot of referrals
certainly that happen from friends or

family where there’s women that are like
or guys really like, I’ve got this friend.

I don’t know what else to do for them.

Like I’ve gone divorce.

I don’t know how to direct them.

You know, they need some
more guidance and direction.

Like I’ve got somebody like you want to be

so top of mind that it is
like a knee jerk reaction.

I’ve got somebody
and it makes them feel good.

Right, because they’re able
to give a name of somebody.


It makes us feel great because
we’re top of mind for them.

And it’s it’s really I can’t say enough

things about being super
clear on who you’re serving

and just dial that in.

I mean, it’s worked so great.

And, you know, here we are six years

later, continuing to serve women,
continuing to grow the business.

We yeah, I mean, it’s really,
really different.

And I think the biggest thing to for me

now in this next phase of my business
is, I mean, in title.

I’ve always been the founder and CEO,

but, you know, really stepping
into that role as the CEO and

delegating because I have
a lot of things delegated.

But the thing that I held closest
to the vest was my client relationships.

And being the only person who was,

you know, client facing
or being the only person.

Until early.

Twenty, twenty when I brought on

chastity and Chastity is based in Madison,
but works all over the country as well.


so we’re not state specific.

And so it’s a matter of
it was a matter of kind of lifting

the hood and being able to show her all
of our processes and all of our systems

and all the things that I’ve
spent so much time building.

And now she’s able
to help clients as well.

And we’re looking at bringing on a couple,

probably three to five more divorce
financial consultants this next year.

Well, to help with the the volume,
would that put you at

that would put us at somewhere
between five to seven.

Super cool.

And I’ll still be doing some client work.
I love doing it.

It gives me it fuels me.

But but my role is going
to continue to be more and more of

being the face of the business,
being, you know, doing the interviews,

building the relationships with our

strategic partners across the country,
you know, all of the things that CEOs do.


And and I when I first started,
my business was doing all of it right.

Like you’re trying to build your website
and you’re trying to set up emails.

And I mean,

the amount of time that I spent early on,
I mean, I don’t I was not sleeping much

15, 17 hours a day easy, you know,
trying to get my business off the ground.

But I will tell you, you know,
I think there’s a couple other things

that I’ve learned along the way
that I think is important to share.

And that is I went to a sales training
in Minnesota a couple of years ago.

And I remember the trainer saying,

you know, it takes so much effort
to get the business off the ground.

Mm hmm.
Don’t land the plane.


because if you think about writing all

of the energy and inertia that takes
to get the plane up here, right.

And we’re flying along once that thing
starts to go down to get that back up

again, it’s so much easier to figure out
a way to keep your plane in the air.

Oh, OK.
I get the analogy.

You get it.
OK, and that’s stuck with me.

Right, because it’s true.

Anybody who’s starting a business,
it is a lot of freakin work.

It just is a lot of work and and a lot

of things that you’re learning along
the way and things that you like

that don’t work exactly like
I thought it was going to.

So we’re not going to do that again.


I think the other thing is,
you know, investing in

what you feel like you need
for your business, like coaching.

If you feel like you need coaching and you

need somebody that’s going to stretch your
vision and help you then find that person.

Or like if you feel like you need

to delegate some of the bookkeeping or,
you know, the virtual assistant,

like the admin stuff,
get as much of that stuff off of your

plate so you can really focus
on the things that you want to be doing

and need to be doing
to grow your business.

And I think that what’s interesting about

that, too, is I think people sometimes
say, well, I can’t afford that.

And I’m like, well, how do
you know you can afford it?

Have you gotten some
quotes on how much it is?

Well, no.

Why don’t we do that first,
because there are plenty of, you know,

people, right, small business owners,
especially when you’re starting.

I started with my little
VA team at the time.

I remember when I started working with her

five years ago and she said, Rhonda, it’s
going to be four hundred dollars a month.

I’m like four hundred dollars
a month, like, no way.

And but I started and I said, OK,
I can’t do any more than that.

And she said, OK, well, let’s start there.

And as your business continues to grow,
we can always reevaluate.

And we did we we worked together
for almost three years.

And when we left when I parted ways
with her, I mean,

we had probably quadrupled the amount
of work that she was doing for me.

Which helped me grow to that next level.

Mm hmm.

And then she was having some health issues

and was really suffering
from really bad migraines.

And it was impacting the amount
that she was able to work for me.

And I was at this point where I was going

to be going to that next
level, that next phase.

So we parted ways and I hired a new team
that works with me for almost a year.

And they started earlier this year.

And now I just parted ways with them

at the end of this week
because we’ve doubled in our business

over this last year,
over the course of the year.

And they were a team of two people.

And I’m like, OK, but my goal for next
year is to grow even further.

Do I feel like they have the bandwidth
to grow with me?

And that was a tough decision, too.

So we parted ways with them and now I
brought on a team that has is 12 deep

on the East Coast that has a voice
like they’re going to be up.

They have the manpower.
Mm hmm.

And the experience and the expertise
to grow with us to this next level.

So that’s been hard,
maybe harder for me as a woman to to let

go of those relationships
because I value them.

And it never seems to get easier when you
have to part ways like it still sucks.

No, no.

I get that because we like
with Calls On Call,

we’re calling answering service for
businesses and we’re doing admin stuff.

So we

I guess you could argue that we
helped a lot of businesses grow.

And when they either feel for whatever

reason, that they’re better served with
their own in homes or whatever it is,

that’s always tough.

It’s extremely tough for me, even
from like this is one of the few times.

And I’m like, don’t get emotional, Jane,

because I’m like, we took you from A to B,

where without us you’d be at half
of A I know you’re so disorganized.

So it’s

a lot of times it’s frustrating
when they leave.

But and the flipside,

I don’t know if it’s movement.
Well, yeah.

You hope it’s girl with a lot of times

it’s just movement
for the sake of change, kids.

But whatever the reason,

there’s always more clients.

So yeah I know.
Thing and move on.

I mean and it’s it’s hard.

Like I you know, even this week in talking
to my VA team as we’re trying to get some

stuff wrapped up, it’s like a bad breakup,
kind of like we’re

like I’m being nice to them and they’re
being nice to me and professional.

But you could tell, like,
because they loved working with our team.

And I think, you know,

and I think it came as a little bit
of a shock, but it was just one of those

things where I had to ask myself,
OK, what does my business need?

Mm hmm.

And the answer was, my business needs
depth that can grow with us.


And you almost have to pull the emotion
out of it and look at it straight up

logic, which is tough
for something like that.

I imagine,
especially in the case of that business,

you were probably
a healthy client for them.


So, no, that probably wasn’t
ideal in their world.


But there’s never there’s
never an ideal time for that.

Like no hard path.

There’s never an ideal time like it.

It’s painful whether I do it now
or I do it six months from now.


You know, Band-Aid.

I never an ideal time.

So sometimes you just have to make those

moves part ways,
close that door and then move on.

And yes.

And I’ve gotten better
at that over the years.

The more that I do it the a little bit

easier it gets where I feel less
emotional with some of those decisions.

But it’s taken time.

I told them, you know.


And nothing thickens the skin
like starting a business.

Right, right.

Well then I think one of the books that I
often recommend to people is a book by Dr.

Henry Cloud called Necessary Endings.

And it’s a book that talks about,

you know, we only have so many
uses, the example of a rosebush.


And like, you know,
we only have so much nutrients

that that that plant can have
sun, water, soil, whatever.

And we want to make sure
that by pruning the rosebush, we’re.

Really focusing those nutrients
on the ones that are most likely to be

able to live and get the biggest
and beautifulest and all that kind

of stuff is the same thing
with our businesses.

Like we have to look at.

OK, what do we need to prune off so

that we can really focus our energy
and our attention on the things that are

growing and working well
and continue to help us thrive.

And I think it’s easier to focus sometimes
on the wilted flower than the one that’s

growing and say we got to divert
resources from here to here.

That’s fair.
That’s only fair.

It’s an interesting analogy.
I like that.

I like.
So that’s a great book.

Rhonda, how can people get a hold of you?
Yeah, absolutely.

The best way to reach us is via the
website, which is WFWCdivorce.com.

All right.

That stands for Women’s
Financial Wellness Center.

You got it.


And all of our contact information is

on there as well as if anybody’s listening
that would like to book a strategy call.

There’s a tab right on there
that you can book those calls.

And we’re doing all of those.

I do all of those initial calls.

So anybody that calls will talk to us.
Talk to me.

It’s very cool.
They get the they get the Rhonda.

That’s right,

That’s awesome.

This has been
a Authentic Business Adventures

the business program that brings you
the struggles stories and triumphant

successes of business
owners across the land.

We are.

I think we’re almost on episode 150,
so I’m excited for this.

Rhonda, we’re I know that you’ve been

doing a podcast for a couple
of years now, right?


So do you have a separate
link for your podcast?

The podcast actually can be
found on the website or iTunes.

iHeart radio, all that kind of stuff.

The usual suspects as far as that goes for podcasts.



My name is James Kademan
and Authentic Business Adventures is

brought to you by Calls On Call offering call
answering and reception services

for service businesses across the country,
on the web at CallsOnCall.com.

As well as, Draw In Customers Business
Coaching, offering coaching services

for entrepreneurs looking for growth,
on the web at DrawInCustomers.com.

And of course The BOLD Business Book,

a book for the entrepreneur in all of us
available wherever fine books are sold.

We’d like to thank you our wonderful

listeners as well as our
guest, Rhonda Noordyk.

Rhonda, thank you so much
for being on the show.

Hey, thanks for having me.

James, can you tell us your
website one more time?


Past episodes can be found morning,

noon, and night at the podcast link
found at DrawInCustomers.com.

Thank you for listening.
We’ll see you next week.

I want you to stay awesome.

And if you do nothing else,
enjoy your business.




Ready to Take Action with a Fast Business Coach for Your Small Business in Madison Wisconsin