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Rhonda Noordyk – Women’s Financial Wellness Center
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You have found
Authentic Business Adventures,
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the business program that brings you
the struggle
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stories and triumphant successes
of business owners across the land.
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We are locally underwritten by the Bank
of Sun Prairie and of course,
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past episodes
of the Authentic Business Adventures
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program can be found on the podcast
link at DrawInCustomers.com.
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My name is James Kademan, entrepreneur,
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author, speaker and helpful coach to small
business owners across the country.
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Today, we’re welcoming/preparing
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to learn from Rhonda Noordyk, the CEO
of the Women’s Financial Wellness Center.
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Rhonda, how are you doing today?
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Hey, I am great, James.
How are you?
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I’m doing very well.
I’m excited.
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Yes, me too.
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I guess I’m in the process of writing this
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book on financial stuff, and I bet that,
you know, probably way more about it.
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Well, you know, it’s
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it’s my focus is really for women
that are going through divorce.
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And so that’s really where
our niche and specialty lies.
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Yeah.
Can you first.
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I guess there’s so many
things going through my head.
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One, how did you come across this niche
and get into this niche?
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Yeah, so well,
so I started in the financial industry
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back in 2002 and knew very early
on that I wanted to work with women.
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Mm hmm.
Partly because I wanted to help them.
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And and I was seeing the results
of helping them. Right?
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I mean, I started in the industry when I
was twenty eight years old and I’m like,
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OK, we could fill a room full of women
that wanted to learn about finances.
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And women decades older than me were
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listening to what I had
to share with them.
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And I’m like, this is really cool.
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So clearly there’s a need right for and a
desire for them to learn about finances.
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So fast forward, I spent 12 years
in the financial industry and really
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continue to grow that niche.
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And I think a lot of times my male
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colleagues were like, we don’t generally
get what you’re doing in there.
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Like you’ve got wine and you’re laughing
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and are we really doing
anything productive?
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But we were.
And so long story short,
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during that same period of time,
I was also teaching in higher education
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and really had a passion
for education and empowering women.
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So in 2014,
I decided to leave the financial industry
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and open the Women’s
Financial Wellness Center.
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So a lot of times people think
that we do financial planning.
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We don’t.
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I build on that knowledge that I have
from being in the financial industry.
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But what we’re doing is coaching.
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So helping with the mindset around money.
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Education, so teaching
concepts and and strategies.
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And then the consulting piece is really
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where we’re doing the deep dive analysis
of the numbers and things like that.
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So the business model is
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very empowering to women so that as they
go through the divorce process,
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they’re not only going through a divorce
process, but we’re using it as
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an opportunity to teach them
some really important things.
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So when they get on the other side of it,
you know, they feel empowered.
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Interesting. So the way that I understand
your business, is it more or less a one
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and done kind of thing? Or people staying
with you after they get divorced? Or
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are you just essentially
educating them and then
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fly free bird?
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Yeah,
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well, so what happens is I always say it
depends on where we come in in the movie.
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Right.
Because if we come in the beginning,
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we are with women until they get
through the divorce process.
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So if they if they’re contemplating
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but haven’t filed,
will help them with that,
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will help them interview attorneys,
will help them put together a budget,
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will help them organize
and gather all their documents.
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So while our emphasis is financial,
we’re actually also holistically kind
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of project managing the divorce process
as part of our services as well.
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If we come in in the middle,
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we get a lay of the land of who the
characters are and what the plot is.
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It’s an excellent analogy.
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I love that.
That’s awesome.
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And then sometimes we come in.
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It’s like almost the credits are starting
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to run, like we come on in the eleventh
hour and we’re like, oh my gosh.
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Like, we got to, you know,
we’ve got to make sure some stuff’s
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buttoned up here before you
officially make it final.
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But no matter where we come in,
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whether it’s in the before
the middle or toward the end,
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we always then do a session after, which we
call the divorce wrap up strategy session.
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And what we do is we take all the things
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that are in the marital settlement
agreement and we map on a timeline so
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that women know what else they need to be
working at, what activities they still
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need to do, what things
need to get wrapped up.
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And it is at that point,
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then we’ll make those introductions
to other professionals that they may need,
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such as estate planning attorneys or
financial advisors, things like that.
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OK. So we do that final wrap up to kind
of pass the baton to that next team.
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You know, that then can
take it from there.
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So our average length of time that we’re
working with a client is about a year.
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And then once it’s over,
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we do the wrap up and then we move on to,
you know, start that process over again.
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So it’s a really I don’t know,
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it’s a really sacred time of when we get
to spend time with these women that we see
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them in their darkest, deepest,
most challenging situations.
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And then we get to see them at the end
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where they’re starting to kind of come
out of it and they’re really starting to
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be a little more confident.
And then years later.
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Right, we see them somewhere
or see them on social media.
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And it’s like, oh,
my gosh, this is awesome.
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And so it’s I had a client who was
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divorced, wrapped up in July, and she’s
a very, very, like, talented artist.
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And she I had her create
some gifts for my team.
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And so I went over to her house
here locally to pick them up.
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And she’s like, oh, come on in.
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So I got to see her new condo
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and she’s like, ready to go look like she
was making mimosas or whatever for us.
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So she’s like, oh, the lights go.
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And I’m like running around her house,
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you know, turning on all
the lights and checking out her.
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They said it was like,
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I don’t always get to see that side of it,
you know, once the stuff is over.
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And so I left there like pretty emotional,
like, this is awesome.
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She’s doing really well.
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She’s she’s redecorated
and this new beautiful place,
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you know, she was hosting brunch the next
day, so she had all of, you know, her.
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It was just really, you know, so she
had all of her decorations up for that.
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And it was just nice to see full circle,
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like they get to the other side
and they’re going to be OK.
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It’s just hard, right?
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Yeah, it’s I imagine
it’s a challenging time.
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Like, I’ve never had to go through it, but
I’ve had some friends that have no one.
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I don’t think anyone enjoys it.
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No, no.
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I suppose if it was enjoyable,
it happened even more.
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OK, unfortunately, there’s
probably some truth to that.
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And, you know, with covid, I mean,
it’s been interesting to watch those.
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I’m very much like I
watch trends of things.
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Mm hmm.
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I mean, the divorce rate
has gone up since covid.
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Thirty four percent.
So.
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Wow.
Thirty four percent.
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It was already high, wasn’t it?
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So it was roughly 50 percent,
I imagine, right somewhere on there.
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I mean, does that put it?
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Thirty four percent above?
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50 percent is it’s a lot.
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Eighty four percent lineout.
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And that’s going to be
60 odd percent, right?
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It’s a lot.
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And so all of my attorney
colleagues that we work with,
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they’re busy.
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You know, normally this time of year,
things get a little quieter.
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It hasn’t been quiet at all.
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Normally I can take off between Christmas
and New Year’s not happening
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like it’s just been crazy and January is
normally about one hundred and thirty
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three percent greater
than previous months.
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So I’m not exactly sure what to expect
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for January and twenty twenty
running out of marriages.
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Oh, that’s funny.
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Kind of right.
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I know it’s challenging, you know.
Yeah.
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So you how long have you had
this business started in 2014.
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OK, so you started this business.
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Was it triggered by meeting someone
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that was divorced or did you get divorced
or how did you get into the divorce game?
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So we started mainly because I had a bunch
of women that I knew that were going
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through divorce and I kept
hearing a lot of the same things.
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Rhonda, my attorney,
isn’t calling me back.
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I’m frustrated.
I’m overwhelmed.
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I don’t feel like I know what to ask.
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Coming to the table on the financial side,
you know, my husband handled the finances.
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I didn’t really handle them.
I’m overwhelmed.
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Right.
And I’m like, enough’s enough.
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Like, there has to be
a better way to do this.
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And so right along that same time,
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I had a friend who in her late
30s was widowed unexpectedly.
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Her husband had a blood clot
after having an injury.
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And so what I did was I had my divorce,
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women friends and my now widowed friend
and I, we got together and I’m like, OK,
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you guys tell me what’s working,
what do you like?
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What do you not like?
Like.
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And we had three hours
and a boatload of Kleenex.
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Later I left there and I’m driving home
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and I’m like, I’m going to find
a way to help these women.
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Like, I’m just going to find a way.
Right.
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And I didn’t know exactly what that was
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going to look like, but I knew
that there was a market for it.
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So that was really kind of the sense
of like I just was getting irritated
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with what I felt like was
injustice that was happening.
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Like, to me, returning a phone call
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and treating people with respect is like
should be standard business practice.
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But I totally wasn’t.
Yeah, it’s weird.
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So I have a call answering service
and it’s interesting because we have some
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clients you’ll bill,
for whatever reason,
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have somebody call them
that they need to call them back is
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something that we can’t do for them,
whatever it is.
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Right.
And we have a few clients that are
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notorious and just not following up on
simple messages that they need to write.
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And then, of course,
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that person calls back and sometimes
they’ll call back multiple times.
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And we’re like,
look, man, we can only go so far.
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We can’t hold a gun to our client’s head
and be like, just call this person back.
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Yeah,
we had no intent that was so bad
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at that because she would have people call
that got a letter from the IRS.
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And so they call us and say, hey, I got
this letter from the IRS, we audited.
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What should I do next?
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And then is outside of the scope of what
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we do or what we did for this accountant,
she she retired long ago anyway.
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So we just give the message
to the the accountant.
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And of course, it’s a busy time of year,
you know, January to April, whatever.
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And so she wouldn’t call them back.
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And these people are antsy, right.
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They’re anxious because they got
this letter from the IRS and.
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Right.
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And in so they just want they want
support is what it comes down to.
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It even know nothing can
be done at that moment.
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And in defense of the accountant,
the accountant probably knew this.
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But this person getting
the letter from the IRS.
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That’s right.
That’s right.
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So we could say, like, hey,
you know, she’ll get back to you sometime,
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but they’d be calling nine times a day
just like they time and call back.
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Right.
And we’re stuck in the middle.
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Like, seriously, just come back,
give them a game plan.
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Yeah.
Or acknowledge the message.
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We’ll tell them.
Yeah.
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Acknowledge the message.
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Right.
Totally.
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But it’s so yeah.
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We answer phones for a lot
of construction companies.
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Oh my God.
I can’t even imagine going through
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a remodel or building
a house though or ever.
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There’s so bad in it.
Yeah.
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Yeah.
And it’s like to your point.
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Right, like, I mean sometimes it is
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emotional and when you’re
going through divorce.
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Right.
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It’s emotional and sometimes people just
want to be heard and acknowledged
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even if you don’t have the answers right
at your fingertips at that moment.
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Yeah.
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They just you know, I think they just want
to know that someone is helping them.
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Yeah.
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Or that there’s a clear next step,
whatever the next step.
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Yep.
Yep.
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There were like this is this is
the position where we are,
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this is where your game pieces on the
whole game, your life kind of thing.
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Yeah.
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Instead of being like at somewhere we’ll
take care of it when we feel like.
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Yeah.
Or it’s not a big deal.
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Well OK.
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But it is a big deal because right now I’m
sitting here with this piece of paper.
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Right.
Like yeah.
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Yeah.
What do I pay you for.
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So yeah, I mean I definitely think that.
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I think there’s a lot of similarities
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with that and, you know,
what’s happened over the last six years is
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as we’ve continued to kind of pull back
the curtain on some of the stuff that’s
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happening with the divorce process,
the greater the need is that we have
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discovered and, you know,
we first started working in Wisconsin
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and I had done the you know,
did some research.
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I’m like, well, there’s plenty of divorces
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here, you know, just in a five county
region, you know, that could keep us busy.
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And then I launched a podcast and two
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thousand eighteen, which is called
Divorce Conversations for Women.
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And of course, as you know.
Right.
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There’s no boundaries with that.
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So then we were getting calls and people
were reaching out, like, where were you?
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Where have you been?
I started my divorce process.
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I’m super overwhelmed.
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I’m 100 grand into this thing.
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And I don’t have a you know,
I don’t have a settlement.
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You’re like, wow, this is crazy.
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So we would get involved
and help women out of state.
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And then
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this last year in twenty twenty,
earlier in twenty twenty,
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the vision when I started my business back
in 2014 was always to have a national
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footprint, always to be able to reach
women, you know, throughout the country.
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Mm hmm.
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And so, you know, we’ve continued to do
that and organically that has happened.
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And then 20, 20 happen.
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And I decided to bring on another divorce
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financial consultant so we could actually
grow the business,
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and I’m glad we did,
because from the beginning of this year
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till the end of this year,
we’ve doubled the business.
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Nice.
Congratulations.
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Yeah, in a good year.
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So it’s been great.
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And, you know, I think it’s it just goes
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to show that, like the women that are
reaching out from other states as well,
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they’re like, oh, my gosh,
where have you been?
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I mean, it’s it nobody has ever said,
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like, oh, this is you know, this is the
most ridiculous idea I’ve ever heard of.
[00:14:19]
They’re all like either they’re
in the midst of it wanting some clarity
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around the finances and wanting help
with it or if they’re on the other side
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of divorce are like, oh, my gosh, where
were you, you know, 10, 20 years ago?
[00:14:29]
Oh, interesting.
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When I was going through divorce,
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because there’s some misperceptions, I
think, around the work that we’re doing.
[00:14:36]
And that as a lot of times people think,
well, I have an attorney.
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And the attorney is going to be able
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to give me all of the guidance
and direction that I need,
[00:14:45]
and they the attorneys have a job, right?
[00:14:48]
Their job is to provide legal guidance
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based on what the laws in those
particular states say.
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That’s what their job is, right?
Mm hmm.
[00:14:56]
But they’re not doing
financial projections.
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They’re not doing financial consultation,
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as far as, you know, negotiating
necessarily and things like that.
[00:15:04]
And the negotiations are only as
good as the questions you ask, so.
[00:15:09]
Right.
Extremely so.
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So if you’re not asking the right
questions and nobody’s telling you what
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questions to ask, you know,
then it is what it is.
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And and then you need the emotional.
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So I would say there’s
three components to it.
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There’s the financial
and the legal and the emotional.
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And you need all three of those
as you’re going through divorce.
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You know, if you have one without
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the other, it’s the three legged
stool that’s missing a leg.
[00:15:29]
Right?
[00:15:29]
I mean, those are the three
main basic areas.
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So, of course, you need all of them.
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And I think the second thing, yeah, I’m
going to challenge that just a tiny bit.
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And maybe this is the man bring in me.
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But tell me about
the emotional part of that.
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Because I guess from my point of view,
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having never experienced this,
so I’m probably wrong,
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but I feel like like my parents
got divorced and that was bitter.
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This was quite a few years ago.
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Well, decades ago.
[00:16:01]
And I remember them having a battle over
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a washing machine
that I don’t know what they paid.
[00:16:06]
Attorneys on both sides is a
15 year old washing machine.
[00:16:11]
My mom was moving into an apartment
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and she had the choice of like
700 bucks cash or this washing machine.
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She had no space for the washing machine,
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but she did not want my dad
to have a washing machine.
[00:16:26]
So in order to create a headache for him,
she created a huge headache for herself.
[00:16:31]
It’s just like, oh, my gosh.
[00:16:33]
So from that point of view,
emotion cost her a lot of money.
[00:16:38]
And so can you talk a little
bit about the emotion thing?
[00:16:41]
Just help me understand that aspect of it.
[00:16:43]
Yeah, aspect of it.
[00:16:45]
Yeah, well, and I think that’s a great
[00:16:47]
example of, like, how emotions
can get in the way of things.
[00:16:50]
Right.
[00:16:51]
And I think, you know, the emotional
part of it is an important part.
[00:16:54]
And male and female.
Right.
[00:16:56]
They deal with emotions differently.
[00:16:59]
And so I think it’s just a matter
of being able to have that
[00:17:04]
professional right mental health
professional that can help process what
[00:17:08]
you’re going through as you’re going
through the divorce process and give you
[00:17:12]
some additional tools to deal
with the stress related to it.
[00:17:16]
So I think that you OK,
[00:17:18]
and I think men are better or I
don’t even know if it’s better.
[00:17:21]
They just deal with it differently.
[00:17:23]
Like some of my male colleagues over
the years that have been going through
[00:17:25]
divorce, you would never know
they were going through divorce.
[00:17:29]
Like, that’s all internal,
internal, internal.
[00:17:31]
Right.
[00:17:31]
Whereas women, on the other hand,
want to talk about it and you might see
[00:17:36]
them cry more, at least publicly,
whatever, you know,
[00:17:38]
like they just deal with the emotions
a little bit differently.
[00:17:41]
Sure.
And so.
[00:17:43]
You know, I always tell people you can
[00:17:45]
dial in the level of support that you
need, but have somebody there
[00:17:49]
that if you need to talk
to somebody and to your point.
[00:17:52]
Right, like,
[00:17:53]
you know, if the average divorce is
52 weeks, which is an entire year.
[00:17:57]
Yeah, I had no idea. Well,
[00:18:01]
you know, your friends kind of get
are like, OK, can we move on already?
[00:18:04]
Like, at one point are they going to say
[00:18:06]
this is old news,
we’re sick of hearing about it?
[00:18:10]
Oh, yeah, we’re sick of hearing about it.
Like, can you do something?
[00:18:12]
You know?
[00:18:13]
So I think there’s
they’re good to a point.
[00:18:15]
But I think having that extra team
of people that they’re professionals,
[00:18:19]
that’s what they do is to help you
through this process is really important.
[00:18:23]
And I do think that we need
to process through those emotions.
[00:18:27]
And I can tell the women that we’re
[00:18:30]
working with that have a mental health
professional they’re working with because
[00:18:34]
they they do have that extra layer
of support through the process.
[00:18:39]
All right.
[00:18:41]
So one of the I’ll give
you an example, James.
[00:18:44]
So one of the things that I have seen over
the years is like let’s say, for example.
[00:18:50]
We’re going there,
[00:18:50]
going through the divorce process,
and one of the soon to be ex-husband says,
[00:18:55]
hey, here’s the offer,
here’s what I’m going to here’s
[00:18:57]
my proposal to you just to settle
this thing and move on.
[00:19:01]
And, you know, the woman is looking at it
and kind of like to your point earlier
[00:19:05]
with the washer situation, she’s looking
at like, well, that’s emotional to me.
[00:19:08]
I know how to use it.
And even if I can’t, I want to use it.
[00:19:11]
I don’t want to let it go.
[00:19:11]
Like there’s all these there’s just
emotion around that particular thing.
[00:19:14]
Right.
[00:19:16]
There’s also the financial piece.
[00:19:17]
And so if they don’t have the emotional
[00:19:20]
on how to deal with that piece of whatever
it is of the property division
[00:19:25]
and the financial thing to say,
OK, well, let’s analyze that.
[00:19:28]
If you got X amount of dollars here,
[00:19:29]
you could go buy a new washer, you know,
like those simple example, right?
[00:19:34]
Women’s Day stock.
[00:19:35]
So then the attorneys like, well,
[00:19:36]
can’t you just make a decision
as a washing machine?
[00:19:39]
But there’s more to it.
[00:19:40]
There’s more layers to it.
Right.
[00:19:42]
Right.
[00:19:43]
And so I think, yeah, having those
three people is really important.
[00:19:46]
All right.
All right.
[00:19:48]
I guess.
Yeah, that makes sense.
[00:19:49]
I didn’t even think about it.
[00:19:50]
Is adding a professional
person to help them with.
[00:19:55]
Navigate the emotional
[00:19:57]
distress or overwhelm or whatever,
and I look at it, so I just I guess I’ve
[00:20:04]
been told this by my wife
that I look at stuff too.
[00:20:08]
She she claims to logically
[00:20:12]
that I’m just like it’s clear it’s
a washing machine
[00:20:16]
that even discussed it with an attorney
is not worth it because the cost
[00:20:20]
of the attorney is going to be
whatever opportunity cost.
[00:20:24]
Right.
Right.
[00:20:26]
And I think the logic piece for women is
[00:20:29]
there, but we’ve got to like we’ve got
to get through the emotional layers first
[00:20:33]
to tap into that logical
part of their brain.
[00:20:35]
Whereas if the emotions are clouding it,
[00:20:37]
we can’t even have those
logical conversations.
[00:20:39]
Right.
And I remember when I was in the financial
[00:20:43]
industry and and I had developed
a curriculum to help women navigate
[00:20:48]
through the divorce process and teach
them some basic financial things.
[00:20:51]
Mm hmm.
But we dealt with sections, chapters,
[00:20:54]
if you will, one through three dealt
with their attitude about money,
[00:20:59]
their relationship with money,
their mindset around money,
[00:21:02]
all those things before we would ever get
to having the conversation around
[00:21:06]
terminology and approach
and stuff like that.
[00:21:10]
All right.
[00:21:10]
And my male colleagues would say, Rhonda,
if your job is to teach them about
[00:21:14]
finances, why are you spending all
this time over here on the emotion?
[00:21:17]
And I’m like, because if I don’t
deal with this stuff first.
[00:21:21]
I can’t tap into the logical stuff if they
[00:21:23]
come into my great we’re going to learn
about financial terms,
[00:21:25]
we’re going to learn about the rule
of 70 to whatever it would be glees.
[00:21:30]
That’s fair.
[00:21:31]
I can I can totally appreciate that you’re
kind of laying the groundwork for why.
[00:21:36]
Yeah, which is a huge benefit.
[00:21:38]
Yeah, yeah, I can totally see that.
[00:21:40]
What should we think about it
from a business perspective to.
[00:21:42]
Right.
Like it’s the emotion.
[00:21:45]
Around why we started our business
[00:21:47]
and what we’re doing that helps drive
and fuel right and helps us get creative
[00:21:51]
and think through things versus,
you know, if there is no emotion to it.
[00:21:56]
It’s hard to tell, but, you know,
[00:21:58]
it’s just you lose your you lose
your motivation or your strength.
[00:22:02]
Yeah.
Or your resiliency.
[00:22:04]
Right.
You you get a challenge of whatever kind.
[00:22:07]
Right.
[00:22:07]
Employee leave and client
leaving, whatever.
[00:22:10]
And you’re just like, ohyeah.
[00:22:14]
But yeah, that’s fair.
[00:22:15]
When you bring your your emotion or you
I guess the correct emotion.
[00:22:21]
Right.
[00:22:21]
Or charge positive emotion,
you can get so much more done.
[00:22:25]
So that’s fair.
Yeah.
[00:22:26]
Yeah I can definitely see that.
Yeah.
[00:22:28]
And you’re laying the groundwork
so it’s not so boring.
[00:22:30]
Right.
Right.
[00:22:32]
And we have to give them the reason on why
they, why they should learn this stuff.
[00:22:35]
Right.
[00:22:36]
Because I mean it’s like
a lot of them have a lot of women that we
[00:22:40]
work with,
you know, their husbands handle a lot
[00:22:43]
of the financial stuff for a
variety of different reasons.
[00:22:46]
Sometimes it’s because that’s what he did
professionally, whether he was a financial
[00:22:49]
adviser or an analyst or
he was an H.R. and handled some
[00:22:53]
of the finances or he just loved
spreadsheets and loved doing it.
[00:22:57]
And it was like, great,
[00:22:58]
you handle that part and I’m going
to handle whatever this part is.
[00:23:01]
And it was more of a divide
and conquer and a, you know, survival.
[00:23:04]
When you have young kids and you’ve
got a family and all this stuff.
[00:23:07]
Great.
You handle that.
[00:23:08]
I’ll handle this.
You like that?
[00:23:09]
Perfect.
[00:23:11]
And so I think a lot of times women end up
[00:23:14]
feeling guilty around the fact that they
weren’t more involved in the finances when
[00:23:18]
it comes time for them
to go through this process.
[00:23:21]
Yeah, that’s fair.
[00:23:22]
I can my mom with a divorce,
she had no idea what was going on
[00:23:29]
because I believe this is I was
a kid when all this happened or.
[00:23:34]
Yeah, whatever.
[00:23:37]
She was just out of touch
[00:23:38]
with where the finances were, so
there was no she had no idea
[00:23:44]
when it came to numbers
plus or minus good or bad stuff.
[00:23:48]
I had no clue.
No clue.
[00:23:50]
She was just I think it
was hidden from her.
[00:23:54]
And maybe that was just
a generational thing.
[00:23:56]
I don’t know,
I think, you know,
[00:23:58]
women would be in a position of like
I don’t know what we have in the bank.
[00:24:03]
Right.
It’s overwhelming.
[00:24:05]
And, you know, I was thinking about
[00:24:06]
something recently that kind of applies
to like the business side of things,
[00:24:09]
which is,
you know, when we look at kind of history,
[00:24:14]
you know, from 1974 was when women could
actually for the first time get a credit
[00:24:18]
card or get a business loan
that didn’t require, you know, a male
[00:24:25]
relative to sign off on it.
Right?
[00:24:27]
Yeah, it surprised me when I learned that
[00:24:30]
I do I teach classes or used to teach
classes back when you could teach classes
[00:24:35]
for Winnik Lessons Business
Initiative Corp.
[00:24:38]
, which was designed to be a cosigner
for business loans for women.
[00:24:44]
And I’m like, what?
[00:24:46]
Come on,
[00:24:48]
it’s like 1918 or something where
[00:24:52]
we weren’t as progressive
reforms not that long ago.
[00:24:56]
No, it isn’t.
[00:24:58]
And so if we look at so now we’ve got
this generation, right, of women.
[00:25:01]
The most of the women that we serve
are 45 to 65 kind of bookends.
[00:25:05]
But, of course,
a little bit on both sides of that.
[00:25:08]
But, you know, so the women that are
[00:25:09]
in that age range, it was their parents
that were still in that mindset.
[00:25:14]
Mm hmm.
[00:25:16]
And, you know, and so depending on why
women got married, they’ve got this 20,
[00:25:21]
30 year history with their spouse
kind of relying on them.
[00:25:25]
So they went from this
mindset with their parents.
[00:25:26]
Right.
Of women really didn’t have
[00:25:28]
the opportunity to to take risks or,
you know, have ownership of things.
[00:25:33]
Right.
That their parents by default were
[00:25:36]
teaching them because
that’s what was allowed.
[00:25:38]
And then they go into a marriage where
[00:25:39]
their husband handled everything
and they’ve missed decades and decades
[00:25:43]
of opportunity to be able
to learn how to step into risk.
[00:25:46]
And I think that’s one of the biggest
[00:25:48]
challenges I, I see with women,
is that they’re afraid.
[00:25:52]
They’re afraid to take on risk.
[00:25:55]
Oh, now, guys, on the other hand,
right, they’ll take on risk.
[00:26:00]
They’ll invest in a business.
[00:26:02]
They’ll take out a loan.
[00:26:03]
I mean, a lot of times.
Right.
[00:26:04]
And I know we’re talking in generalities,
[00:26:06]
but a lot of the women that I that I talk
to, they have a hard time with that.
[00:26:10]
Well, I don’t have the money to invest
in X, Y, Z, or I’m not able to.
[00:26:16]
And some of it is reality
and some of it is.
[00:26:19]
I’ll give you an example.
[00:26:20]
So we have a bank that we work with here
locally and I’m working on hopefully
[00:26:25]
creating some others and other communities
as well, where we have
[00:26:30]
an agreement that they set aside funds
specifically to help women that need
[00:26:34]
to pay for the upfront
costs of their divorce.
[00:26:39]
OK, OK, so it’s not that they
don’t have access to them.
[00:26:43]
It’s not that they don’t have money.
[00:26:44]
It’s that they don’t have
access to the money right now.
[00:26:46]
Oh, because in the joint say or maybe
even an account in the husband’s name.
[00:26:50]
Right.
And they don’t want to take it out or
[00:26:52]
they’re afraid or they don’t have
a credit card in their name.
[00:26:54]
Whatever the situation might be,
there’s usually something to work with.
[00:26:58]
They just don’t have the funds available,
[00:27:01]
either physically available or emotionally
available to take the money out to get
[00:27:06]
started because there’s an upfront
cost to get started with divorce.
[00:27:09]
OK?
[00:27:10]
So we developed this program
and it’s you’re going to die because as
[00:27:15]
a business owner,
I’m like, this is amazing.
[00:27:18]
And it actually came out of I was I was
teaching at Waukesha County Technical
[00:27:22]
College, so in higher education,
in the business division, teaching,
[00:27:26]
marketing and public speaking
and stuff for entrepreneurs.
[00:27:30]
Oh, nice.
[00:27:32]
And they came up with a program
that would allow the business owners have
[00:27:36]
access to this pool of money
where they could then take this five
[00:27:40]
thousand dollar unsecured loan at one
percent interest over three years.
[00:27:45]
I’ll let that sink in for a sec.
That’s awesome.
[00:27:49]
Mm hmm.
[00:27:50]
And that would allow entrepreneurs
[00:27:52]
to maybe invest in a website or invest in,
you know, training or invest in something
[00:27:57]
that they might need
for their business, right?
[00:27:58]
Mm hmm.
And so I was teaching loved that.
[00:28:03]
I’m like, oh, my gosh.
Like, this is such a no brainer.
[00:28:05]
Like, oh, this is amazing.
[00:28:06]
And all they had to do is show
that they had a business plan.
[00:28:10]
And and so there was no
it wasn’t collateralized.
[00:28:13]
It they just had access to this
money at one percent interest.
[00:28:17]
Wow.
Or three years.
[00:28:19]
So of course, as a business owner,
[00:28:21]
I’m like, how do I get access
to some of that money?
[00:28:23]
And.
[00:28:24]
And so we worked it out where
I took a couple extra classes.
[00:28:27]
So I met the requirements.
[00:28:29]
And then in addition to once I was
[00:28:31]
teaching and I was the first
one to go through this program.
[00:28:34]
Cool.
[00:28:35]
So I presented my business plan to the
president of the bank and he loved it.
[00:28:39]
And then I went back and they gave me
a check for five thousand dollars
[00:28:43]
and I deposited it into my account
and used it for business expenses.
[00:28:47]
And I’m like, well, this is great.
[00:28:49]
So a year later I went to that same bank
[00:28:51]
and I pitched the idea to them and said,
hey, what do you guys think about doing
[00:28:55]
something like that program for women
that are going through divorce?
[00:28:57]
And they said at first they are like,
let us think about it.
[00:29:00]
How about a credit card at zero
percent interest for 18 months?
[00:29:03]
I’m like, sure.
[00:29:05]
So we started doing that.
[00:29:06]
And then one day they called and said, oh,
hey, by the way, we just approved your
[00:29:09]
program and we want
to launch this program.
[00:29:13]
Wow, that’s a Google.
[00:29:15]
That’s cool.
[00:29:17]
I was like, yeah, that really that works.
[00:29:18]
So we so they set aside
[00:29:21]
enough for ten women to have
access to five thousand dollars
[00:29:26]
and they can pay interest only
[00:29:27]
at seventeen dollars a month until they
either get access to some of the money
[00:29:31]
to pay it off or the divorce
is final and then they pay.
[00:29:34]
The goal is that they would pay that loan
off in full, whatever the balances do,
[00:29:39]
so that then we can use those
funds to help somebody else.
[00:29:42]
All right.
[00:29:43]
And cool program.
It’s awesome.
[00:29:46]
We have I think we have six out
of the 10 people so far that have UCITS.
[00:29:50]
We have four spots open still.
[00:29:52]
But what’s been interesting is now this is
kind of the tieback on the mindset piece,
[00:29:56]
and that is there’s been women that have
reached out and I’m like, OK,
[00:29:59]
I think we’d be able to like I think
we would be able to help them.
[00:30:03]
And B, I think they’re a good candidate
for the program and they get approval.
[00:30:08]
They have to have over
a six twenty five credit score.
[00:30:12]
OK, so as long as they
have over six twenty five.
[00:30:14]
Right.
It’s an automatic approval.
[00:30:16]
Automatic.
[00:30:18]
Wow, as long as they came through
US Women’s Financial Wellness Center.
[00:30:22]
Mm hmm.
[00:30:23]
And as long as I know we’re
going to be helping them.
[00:30:27]
Right.
So there’s it’s exclusive for our clients.
[00:30:30]
Oh, it’s even cooler.
Mm hmm.
[00:30:33]
All right.
So then I guess from the bank’s point
[00:30:35]
of view, they know that someone
is holding their hand.
[00:30:38]
Absolutely.
The next steps.
[00:30:40]
Yes.
Instead of just like here’s some money.
[00:30:42]
Good luck.
Yes.
[00:30:43]
Yes.
But what’s interesting is there have been
[00:30:45]
women who, again, we’ve eliminated
every possible barrier physically.
[00:30:50]
Right.
[00:30:51]
And they say, oh, I don’t feel
comfortable taking on a loan.
[00:30:54]
And I’m like, I get that, OK?
[00:30:56]
Nobody wants to take out a loan.
[00:30:58]
Nobody wants to go into debt.
[00:31:00]
But it’s temporary.
Right.
[00:31:02]
And what other option do
you have at this point?
[00:31:04]
Because you have no access to money,
even though there’s money there
[00:31:08]
because your spouse is locked
you out of everything.
[00:31:11]
Right?
It’s a it’s a means to an end, I guess.
[00:31:15]
So it seems like one of those things where
[00:31:19]
it’s a tool that you may not like using,
but it’s the best option that you have.
[00:31:24]
Right.
[00:31:25]
And in the end, let’s say,
three, five years down the road.
[00:31:29]
It’s going to be a memory and a good story
[00:31:31]
so I can write something
still looming, right?
[00:31:34]
And at one percent interest,
it’s basically free money.
[00:31:36]
That’s the thing.
[00:31:37]
Like we got to get our head around,
you know, we got to get our head around
[00:31:41]
changing, I think as women in particular,
the paradigm around that,
[00:31:45]
like there’s so much they felt like it
was so heavy and negative where it isn’t.
[00:31:49]
And I’m like, OK,
it’s five thousand dollars.
[00:31:51]
Right.
How?
[00:31:53]
This is a great stepping stone
for women who want to buy a house
[00:31:59]
or a car or go back to college,
like those price tags on those items are
[00:32:04]
going to be significantly
higher than this.
[00:32:05]
Five thousand dollars, right?
Right.
[00:32:08]
Mm hmm.
And we got to get comfortable with that.
[00:32:10]
And we got we it’s not that we do stuff
[00:32:13]
without,
you know, doing the research
[00:32:15]
and understanding the program
and having a plan.
[00:32:18]
Right.
[00:32:20]
But it’s OK to take
a little bit of a risk.
[00:32:24]
Oh, absolutely.
[00:32:25]
And this seems like a negligible risk,
right?
[00:32:29]
That’s right.
One percent interest unsecured or
[00:32:33]
so we you know.
So it’s a matter I think to of like.
[00:32:38]
You know, really, again,
[00:32:40]
I’m not in the business of convincing
people that they need to take out a loan.
[00:32:43]
That’s not my job.
[00:32:44]
But I do think that there’s a really like
any time I have an opportunity to share
[00:32:48]
on a platform like, listen, we got
to change our mindset around the stuff.
[00:32:51]
We can’t go back to 1974 when women
[00:32:54]
couldn’t like you now could
start to make decisions.
[00:32:57]
Women can start to make decisions that men
[00:32:58]
have been making for a long time,
that you guys have had more experience.
[00:33:02]
Right.
[00:33:03]
To be more comfortable
with those decisions.
[00:33:05]
It’s not that women aren’t smart
enough or able to do that.
[00:33:08]
It’s just they don’t have
necessarily the experience.
[00:33:10]
And one of the formulas that I love
[00:33:12]
to share is, OK, how do we
get to that confidence piece?
[00:33:16]
And it’s knowledge plus experience
that builds the confidence.
[00:33:20]
Sure.
Because, right.
[00:33:22]
If we have the knowledge without
the experience, it’s theory.
[00:33:25]
If we have the experience, without
the knowledge, it’s trial and error.
[00:33:28]
All right.
Let’s do that.
[00:33:30]
Right.
Look, good luck to you.
[00:33:32]
You know, like but if we have those
two things working together, right.
[00:33:37]
It can be a really powerful way for women
[00:33:39]
to go through and walk through the divorce
process, learning along the way.
[00:33:44]
So when they come out of it, they feel
really good about, you know what?
[00:33:48]
I think I could
get prequalified for a home,
[00:33:51]
yeah, you know, or again,
and it’s not that they have to be
[00:33:54]
an expert, they just have to be really
good at asking questions like, hmm,
[00:33:58]
tell me more about that or
what does that mean?
[00:34:01]
You know, and most of the time,
[00:34:02]
the people that they’re working with,
if they’re working with the right people,
[00:34:05]
are going to be like they
love the opportunity.
[00:34:08]
Right, to take a minute and share
their knowledge with somebody.
[00:34:11]
Right.
[00:34:13]
That is cool.
[00:34:14]
And it sounds like that’s a fairly
recent program, is that right?
[00:34:18]
Yes, so we launched that about
nine months ago or so.
[00:34:21]
Oh, wow.
OK, so we reason.
[00:34:24]
Nice. So how do people I guess besides
super awesome podcasts like this,
[00:34:28]
how do people learn about programs like
that or that program specifically?
[00:34:33]
So it’s not something that we publicize
on the website or anything like that.
[00:34:37]
It’s really, you know,
when we do discovery calls
[00:34:40]
and we think that somebody may be a good
[00:34:42]
fit for it, we’ll share
that opportunity with them.
[00:34:44]
So if there are people that are listening,
that are contemplating or going through
[00:34:47]
divorce,
we offer a free 30 minute strategy call
[00:34:52]
where we can hop on and find out a little
bit more about their situation and maybe
[00:34:56]
ask some burning, you know, answer some
burning questions that they have, right?
[00:35:00]
Sure.
[00:35:01]
And then if they decide to that they want
to move forward with some of our services,
[00:35:05]
then we can certainly
recommend that as an option.
[00:35:08]
All right.
Yeah, cool.
[00:35:10]
Yeah.
So since you started this in 2014,
[00:35:13]
it sounds like quite a bit has changed
in the divorce industry.
[00:35:18]
Is that safe to say?
Mm hmm.
[00:35:19]
OK, so are you where you thought you
would be when you first started in 2014?
[00:35:25]
I love that question.
[00:35:27]
I get kind of emotional about
that because, you know, when I was.
[00:35:30]
Well, no, I mean, I I in a good way,
like I was sitting in my office.
[00:35:36]
In 2014,
and the question I asked myself was,
[00:35:39]
what do I want my business to look
like five years from now, huh?
[00:35:43]
Great question, right.
[00:35:45]
And I thought, well, I can stay the course
and stay in the financial industry
[00:35:50]
and have more assets and more
revenue and more clients.
[00:35:53]
Mm hmm.
[00:35:53]
Or I can go a different direction
and really be able to impact even more.
[00:35:59]
Women across the country have a niche
business that I know there’s a need for
[00:36:05]
and see where it goes.
[00:36:08]
I have to be honest, I.
[00:36:12]
I think it’s exceeded my expectations.
[00:36:14]
Oh, that’s awesome.
[00:36:15]
Yes, incredible.
[00:36:19]
And the reason for that is because,
[00:36:22]
you know, the podcast wasn’t
on my radar when we first started.
[00:36:25]
Right, in 2014.
[00:36:27]
There were.
[00:36:28]
The video shows, right?
[00:36:31]
I know, and I’ve been on TV, so, I mean,
you know, that was cool,
[00:36:36]
but like there there wasn’t as much
opportunity as we have today, right.
[00:36:41]
To be able to reach more people so easily.
[00:36:44]
Oh, yeah.
[00:36:46]
So that’s been really good.
[00:36:48]
You know, we have clients all over
[00:36:50]
the country, so that was kind of like
a twinkle of a vision.
[00:36:54]
But I didn’t know how
I was going to do it.
[00:36:55]
You’re like, OK, I’m in Milwaukee.
[00:36:58]
How do I reach people in California?
[00:37:00]
How do I reach people in Washington?
[00:37:02]
Like
[00:37:05]
so we’ve done that on a variety
of different ways.
[00:37:06]
The podcast has certainly helped.
[00:37:08]
We’ve done specific
marketing to specific areas.
[00:37:12]
And about a year and a half ago,
I got an additional credential,
[00:37:17]
which is the certified divorce
financial analyst credential.
[00:37:21]
Wow.
[00:37:22]
And I know it is specific
and it’s really I mean,
[00:37:26]
it’s very well recognized in the divorce
space as being a financial expert.
[00:37:29]
And we can also provide,
[00:37:31]
like expert witness like testimony
in the courtroom with that.
[00:37:35]
Oh, that’s super cool.
[00:37:37]
So it’s a pretty big deal.
[00:37:39]
But then I got involved with other
national organizations and started to meet
[00:37:43]
some of the key people
in the divorce space as well.
[00:37:47]
And that’s helped launch that.
[00:37:50]
And, yeah, I mean, we we are in a really,
really good spot,
[00:37:56]
you know, six years into it.
[00:37:58]
So we’ve exceeded pretty much everyyeah.
[00:38:02]
Literally every expectation.
[00:38:04]
I mean, revenue wise,
client wise, reach wise.
[00:38:08]
You know, I think as we move into this
next year, one of the things that I’ve
[00:38:12]
been thinking about is
the fact that, you know,
[00:38:15]
business and particularly divorce rate,
it’s not black and white.
[00:38:19]
And so it’s continuing
to be more of a voice
[00:38:24]
for women.
[00:38:25]
I mean, when we first started
the business, the feeling was very like,
[00:38:29]
I don’t know, I guess you could
say like therapeutic, right?
[00:38:32]
Like, very supportive.
[00:38:34]
We did a lot of groups
and workshops and stuff like that.
[00:38:38]
And now I would say it’s more
[00:38:42]
advocating, like we’re in the meetings
were in, the mediation’s were running,
[00:38:48]
the numbers were, you know,
communicating more with the attorneys.
[00:38:52]
And some attorneys love
us and some hate us.
[00:38:54]
And the ones that hate us are only because
[00:38:56]
we are actually asking questions
that probably should have been asking,
[00:39:02]
you know.
Right.
[00:39:03]
But we’ve been able to I guess I
would say, James, we can this year.
[00:39:06]
I think we’re going to be more bold.
Nice.
[00:39:09]
I love it.
And, you know,
[00:39:12]
kind of shake things up a little bit.
That’s fair.
[00:39:16]
That’s fair.
[00:39:17]
I want to ask you, initially,
when you first started your business,
[00:39:19]
just to help people that are considering
starting a business of any kind.
[00:39:24]
You had your clients from the financial
world, did you, to market your business,
[00:39:31]
did you initially reach out to some
of them that were getting divorced or how
[00:39:35]
did you launch your business
from a marketing perspective?
[00:39:40]
Yeah, I mean, I really
focused a couple of things.
[00:39:44]
One is with the strategic partners that I
[00:39:47]
had relationships with from
the financial industry.
[00:39:50]
So like attorneys and CPAs and therapists
[00:39:52]
and mortgage brokers and created
this community for them.
[00:39:59]
But I always look at stuff in like
[00:40:01]
a triangle, and so I think this
might be helpful for people.
[00:40:04]
So if we take that triangle and we divide
[00:40:07]
it into thirds,
so the bottom layer and then the middle
[00:40:09]
layer and then the top layer, the bottom
layer is like the awareness piece.
[00:40:14]
It’s low impact marketing.
Right.
[00:40:16]
So it’s things like,
[00:40:19]
you know, ads in a magazine or
a business card somewhere.
[00:40:25]
Or we could even say social
media to some degree.
[00:40:28]
Right.
[00:40:28]
Like the goal is just to let people know,
like, hey, I’m open for business.
[00:40:31]
Right.
And.
[00:40:34]
So that’s an important piece of it,
but again, we have to have realistic
[00:40:38]
expectations for that awareness
because if we put an ad somewhere
[00:40:44]
and nobody calls us and we’re like,
well, the ad didn’t work.
[00:40:46]
Well, no, the ad maybe did what it was
[00:40:48]
supposed to do,
but it doesn’t mean automatic conversion.
[00:40:52]
So we can’t just do those things, right?
Yes.
[00:40:55]
Persistance.
What you have going on.
[00:40:57]
Yes.
Is a bigger ticket.
[00:40:59]
Right.
[00:40:59]
It’s like you’re selling
songs or something like that.
[00:41:02]
This is a huge someone has to see it.
[00:41:04]
The target market,
[00:41:06]
like going through a divorce or
in the process where you would fit.
[00:41:09]
Yeah.
Understand what you do.
[00:41:11]
So I imagine there’s
an educational system.
[00:41:13]
Yep.
Yep.
[00:41:14]
Like there’s a you window ordering website
and we’re still trying to navigate my
[00:41:21]
marketing because it’s such like it’s
a 10, 20 thousand dollar layout.
[00:41:26]
Right.
It’s not going to be just like oh yeah.
[00:41:27]
Windows twenty grand.
[00:41:30]
No problem.
[00:41:32]
So it’s interesting when you talk about
like, hey, we throw out these ads and we
[00:41:36]
didn’t necessarily get
a client directly from them.
[00:41:38]
I guess the ads didn’t work like this.
[00:41:41]
I don’t know exactly what you guys charge,
[00:41:42]
but I imagine it’s more than
just a couple of bucks.
[00:41:45]
So there’s.
Yeah, yeah.
[00:41:47]
It’s a bigger decision making process.
It is.
[00:41:50]
It is.
And I think the you know,
[00:41:52]
so it’s going into it like any time
that I’m evaluating those kinds of things,
[00:41:55]
I’m like, OK,
what do I want this to do for me?
[00:41:58]
Because if I just want clients that don’t
[00:42:01]
waste your time, money or energy,
if you want to be seen somewhere
[00:42:05]
as part of the overall picture,
then I think it can make sense.
[00:42:10]
So that was one piece of it then,
[00:42:13]
the middle layer is like mid range impact,
so that’s things that focus on education
[00:42:19]
and help position
us as the business owners, as the expert.
[00:42:23]
Right.
[00:42:24]
So that’s things like podcasts,
blog articles, guest blog articles,
[00:42:32]
speaking engagements,
written articles, things like that.
[00:42:37]
All right.
Oh, you can share.
[00:42:38]
And I think that was interesting for me,
like the first time that I did that.
[00:42:42]
And someone said, OK, well,
give us your top three and I’m like.
[00:42:47]
Well,
I’m so used to like
[00:42:50]
reiterating other articles that I’ve
written or read or whatever,
[00:42:54]
I’m like I get to pick like
what the top three are like,
[00:42:57]
oh my gosh.
Right.
[00:42:59]
Like and I think we forget that, like,
we are the experts in our field and we
[00:43:03]
know more than than people because
we’re experts in our particular area.
[00:43:08]
Right?
Mm hmm.
[00:43:09]
So I had I came up with the three
things and I was like, OK.
[00:43:13]
And so that’s kind of where it started was
[00:43:16]
me starting to see myself as the expert
to say, listen, I have things to share.
[00:43:20]
Right.
And I think if I was always waiting
[00:43:23]
for somebody else to feed me the content
or feed me those articles,
[00:43:27]
I there’s value in reading those
things, don’t get me wrong.
[00:43:30]
But we can take that information
and synthesize that through our lens
[00:43:33]
and then share that information
as the expert.
[00:43:35]
Right.
Right.
[00:43:37]
So that’s been really fun.
[00:43:39]
TV interviews, radio interviews, you know,
all of those media related things.
[00:43:43]
Again, it’s positioning us as the expert.
[00:43:46]
And thankfully today, you know,
and a little bit when I first started
[00:43:50]
my business, you could take
those links and share them.
[00:43:53]
So you’re getting you know,
it’s not just a one hit wonder of if you
[00:43:56]
don’t see me on TV at nine
o’clock on Tuesday to bad.
[00:43:59]
So sad DVR.
[00:44:01]
Yes, exactly.
And we do that.
[00:44:03]
But we now have the link.
[00:44:05]
Right, that we can share on our website
[00:44:06]
and social media and whatever,
where the amount of hits that we’re
[00:44:10]
getting on those particular
interviews, for example, are
[00:44:16]
lasting a lot longer and the impact
[00:44:17]
lasting a lot longer than if
it was just on the TV itself.
[00:44:21]
No.
All right.
[00:44:23]
And those have helped.
[00:44:24]
Again, even being on TV and radio,
it’s not like all of a sudden the phone
[00:44:27]
starts ringing off the hook,
like people will see you and they’ll
[00:44:32]
they’ll acknowledge it and it
might spark something.
[00:44:34]
And like one of the times I was on TV,
I think we got five people that reached
[00:44:38]
out and I think we got
two clients from it.
[00:44:41]
That’s huge.
[00:44:42]
I assume that’s huge.
[00:44:44]
I mean,
[00:44:45]
it’s good, right, and then and then it’s
again that lasting the impressions, right.
[00:44:52]
Later, where you’re like, yeah,
I’ve been on Fox six News or I’ve been
[00:44:55]
on TMJ for I’ve been
on Wissen or whatever it is.
[00:44:58]
Right, like those are the things that then
[00:45:00]
you can start to build that branding
on your website, on marketing materials
[00:45:05]
that give you that extra
layer of credibility.
[00:45:08]
Mm hmm.
[00:45:09]
And then the top layer of our triangle is
the influence affiliate kind of feeling
[00:45:16]
where, you know, when you have
those people that say, I mean,
[00:45:20]
there’s there was an attorney who joined
[00:45:23]
one of the women’s networking
groups I’m part of.
[00:45:25]
And there’s about 100 people in this
group and they all know what I do.
[00:45:28]
Right.
[00:45:29]
And I mean, every time she would introduce
[00:45:31]
herself to somebody as being a divorce
attorney, they’re like,
[00:45:33]
you should talk to rather you
should talk to your doctor, Rhonda.
[00:45:36]
And I’ve got all these, like, ambassadors.
[00:45:37]
Right, for what I’m doing, because
we have niched it so clearly that people
[00:45:43]
aren’t trying to say, I don’t know,
is the good fit for her?
[00:45:46]
They they’re not trying to qualify.
Mm hmm.
[00:45:49]
Which I think a lot of times if people
[00:45:51]
aren’t sure what you do,
that’s what they’ll do.
[00:45:53]
Like when I was in the financial industry,
[00:45:56]
everybody wanted to tell me, well, Rhonda,
everybody needs financial planning.
[00:45:59]
No doubt.
I don’t disagree with that.
[00:46:02]
Mm hmm.
[00:46:02]
But I don’t have to be the one person
that’s going to help everybody.
[00:46:05]
I’m going to help them lean.
Right.
[00:46:08]
Nor could I.
That’s exactly it.
[00:46:10]
Right.
Like to think that I could help.
[00:46:11]
Every single person is ridiculous.
[00:46:13]
Nor do I want to I want to help the women
because I’m passionate about helping them.
[00:46:17]
I’m seeing the impact.
I love it.
[00:46:19]
Somebody else is going
to have to help the guy.
[00:46:21]
Somebody else is going
to have to help the couples.
[00:46:22]
Right.
But there’s plenty of opportunity there.
[00:46:25]
And I don’t think that they ever really
[00:46:27]
understood exactly what I was doing
because they felt like I was leaving
[00:46:31]
business on the table by not
going after everybody.
[00:46:36]
That makes sense.
[00:46:37]
Yeah, like, why wouldn’t you
help these people there?
[00:46:39]
You know, whatever.
Right?
[00:46:41]
I don’t know.
[00:46:41]
I just interviewed a guy
and his last name is.
[00:46:46]
No, it’s a different guy.
[00:46:49]
Anyways,
as podcast,
[00:46:52]
and he pointed out that the niches are
in the riches or the niches bring
[00:46:55]
the riches, yepp is interesting talking
to him because I was like, what?
[00:47:01]
But the more he was talking about it
online, it makes sense because then people
[00:47:05]
know you and they know
precisely what you do totally.
[00:47:09]
And it makes referring you so much easier
because they’re not sending you everybody.
[00:47:13]
It’s asking them to think of everybody.
That’s right.
[00:47:16]
You just connecting the dots
with divorce equals Rhondda like.
[00:47:20]
Yeah.
Is the easy.
[00:47:22]
Yeah.
Like easy, super easy.
[00:47:24]
And, you know, we have a lot of referrals
certainly that happen from friends or
[00:47:28]
family where there’s women that are like
or guys really like, I’ve got this friend.
[00:47:33]
I don’t know what else to do for them.
[00:47:35]
Like I’ve gone divorce.
[00:47:37]
I don’t know how to direct them.
[00:47:39]
You know, they need some
more guidance and direction.
[00:47:41]
Like I’ve got somebody like you want to be
[00:47:43]
so top of mind that it is
like a knee jerk reaction.
[00:47:46]
I’ve got somebody
and it makes them feel good.
[00:47:48]
Right, because they’re able
to give a name of somebody.
[00:47:51]
Right.
[00:47:51]
It makes us feel great because
we’re top of mind for them.
[00:47:55]
And it’s it’s really I can’t say enough
[00:47:58]
things about being super
clear on who you’re serving
[00:48:01]
and just dial that in.
[00:48:03]
I mean, it’s worked so great.
[00:48:05]
And, you know, here we are six years
[00:48:07]
later, continuing to serve women,
continuing to grow the business.
[00:48:11]
We yeah, I mean, it’s really,
really different.
[00:48:14]
And I think the biggest thing to for me
[00:48:16]
now in this next phase of my business
is, I mean, in title.
[00:48:21]
Right.
I’ve always been the founder and CEO,
[00:48:24]
but, you know, really stepping
into that role as the CEO and
[00:48:30]
delegating because I have
a lot of things delegated.
[00:48:34]
But the thing that I held closest
to the vest was my client relationships.
[00:48:38]
Right.
And being the only person who was,
[00:48:41]
you know, client facing
or being the only person.
[00:48:45]
Yes.
Until early.
[00:48:46]
Twenty, twenty when I brought on
[00:48:49]
chastity and Chastity is based in Madison,
but works all over the country as well.
[00:48:55]
And
[00:48:56]
so we’re not state specific.
Right.
[00:48:58]
And so it’s a matter of
it was a matter of kind of lifting
[00:49:03]
the hood and being able to show her all
of our processes and all of our systems
[00:49:07]
and all the things that I’ve
spent so much time building.
[00:49:11]
And now she’s able
to help clients as well.
[00:49:13]
And we’re looking at bringing on a couple,
[00:49:16]
probably three to five more divorce
financial consultants this next year.
[00:49:20]
Well, to help with the the volume,
would that put you at
[00:49:25]
that would put us at somewhere
between five to seven.
[00:49:27]
Nice.
Super cool.
[00:49:30]
And I’ll still be doing some client work.
I love doing it.
[00:49:33]
It gives me it fuels me.
[00:49:35]
But but my role is going
to continue to be more and more of
[00:49:40]
being the face of the business,
being, you know, doing the interviews,
[00:49:46]
building the relationships with our
[00:49:47]
strategic partners across the country,
you know, all of the things that CEOs do.
[00:49:52]
Right.
[00:49:52]
And and I when I first started,
my business was doing all of it right.
[00:49:56]
Like you’re trying to build your website
and you’re trying to set up emails.
[00:49:58]
And I mean,
[00:50:00]
the amount of time that I spent early on,
I mean, I don’t I was not sleeping much
[00:50:04]
15, 17 hours a day easy, you know,
trying to get my business off the ground.
[00:50:09]
But I will tell you, you know,
I think there’s a couple other things
[00:50:12]
that I’ve learned along the way
that I think is important to share.
[00:50:15]
And that is I went to a sales training
in Minnesota a couple of years ago.
[00:50:19]
And I remember the trainer saying,
[00:50:21]
you know, it takes so much effort
to get the business off the ground.
[00:50:24]
Mm hmm.
Don’t land the plane.
[00:50:28]
Oh,
[00:50:30]
because if you think about writing all
[00:50:32]
of the energy and inertia that takes
to get the plane up here, right.
[00:50:35]
And we’re flying along once that thing
starts to go down to get that back up
[00:50:39]
again, it’s so much easier to figure out
a way to keep your plane in the air.
[00:50:43]
Oh, OK.
I get the analogy.
[00:50:45]
You get it.
OK, and that’s stuck with me.
[00:50:47]
Right, because it’s true.
[00:50:48]
Anybody who’s starting a business,
it is a lot of freakin work.
[00:50:52]
Right.
It just is a lot of work and and a lot
[00:50:55]
of things that you’re learning along
the way and things that you like
[00:50:59]
that don’t work exactly like
I thought it was going to.
[00:51:01]
So we’re not going to do that again.
Right.
[00:51:03]
Right.
[00:51:06]
I think the other thing is,
you know, investing in
[00:51:09]
what you feel like you need
for your business, like coaching.
[00:51:12]
If you feel like you need coaching and you
[00:51:15]
need somebody that’s going to stretch your
vision and help you then find that person.
[00:51:19]
Right.
Or like if you feel like you need
[00:51:21]
to delegate some of the bookkeeping or,
you know, the virtual assistant,
[00:51:25]
like the admin stuff,
get as much of that stuff off of your
[00:51:28]
plate so you can really focus
on the things that you want to be doing
[00:51:31]
and need to be doing
to grow your business.
[00:51:35]
And I think that what’s interesting about
[00:51:36]
that, too, is I think people sometimes
say, well, I can’t afford that.
[00:51:40]
And I’m like, well, how do
you know you can afford it?
[00:51:41]
Have you gotten some
quotes on how much it is?
[00:51:43]
Well, no.
[00:51:45]
Why don’t we do that first,
because there are plenty of, you know,
[00:51:49]
people, right, small business owners,
especially when you’re starting.
[00:51:53]
I started with my little
VA team at the time.
[00:51:56]
I remember when I started working with her
[00:51:58]
five years ago and she said, Rhonda, it’s
going to be four hundred dollars a month.
[00:52:02]
I’m like four hundred dollars
a month, like, no way.
[00:52:05]
And but I started and I said, OK,
I can’t do any more than that.
[00:52:10]
And she said, OK, well, let’s start there.
[00:52:13]
And as your business continues to grow,
we can always reevaluate.
[00:52:15]
And we did we we worked together
for almost three years.
[00:52:19]
And when we left when I parted ways
with her, I mean,
[00:52:22]
we had probably quadrupled the amount
of work that she was doing for me.
[00:52:25]
Wow.
Which helped me grow to that next level.
[00:52:28]
Mm hmm.
[00:52:29]
And then she was having some health issues
[00:52:31]
and was really suffering
from really bad migraines.
[00:52:35]
And it was impacting the amount
that she was able to work for me.
[00:52:39]
And I was at this point where I was going
[00:52:40]
to be going to that next
level, that next phase.
[00:52:44]
So we parted ways and I hired a new team
that works with me for almost a year.
[00:52:50]
And they started earlier this year.
[00:52:52]
And now I just parted ways with them
[00:52:55]
at the end of this week
because we’ve doubled in our business
[00:52:58]
over this last year,
over the course of the year.
[00:53:02]
And they were a team of two people.
[00:53:04]
And I’m like, OK, but my goal for next
year is to grow even further.
[00:53:08]
Do I feel like they have the bandwidth
to grow with me?
[00:53:13]
And that was a tough decision, too.
[00:53:15]
So we parted ways with them and now I
brought on a team that has is 12 deep
[00:53:20]
on the East Coast that has a voice
like they’re going to be up.
[00:53:24]
They have the manpower.
Mm hmm.
[00:53:26]
And the experience and the expertise
to grow with us to this next level.
[00:53:30]
So that’s been hard,
maybe harder for me as a woman to to let
[00:53:33]
go of those relationships
because I value them.
[00:53:38]
And it never seems to get easier when you
have to part ways like it still sucks.
[00:53:44]
No, no.
[00:53:44]
I get that because we like
with Calls On Call,
[00:53:47]
we’re calling answering service for
businesses and we’re doing admin stuff.
[00:53:51]
So we
[00:53:54]
I guess you could argue that we
helped a lot of businesses grow.
[00:53:58]
And when they either feel for whatever
[00:54:00]
reason, that they’re better served with
their own in homes or whatever it is,
[00:54:07]
that’s always tough.
[00:54:08]
It’s extremely tough for me, even
from like this is one of the few times.
[00:54:12]
And I’m like, don’t get emotional, Jane,
[00:54:16]
because I’m like, we took you from A to B,
[00:54:19]
where without us you’d be at half
of A I know you’re so disorganized.
[00:54:25]
So it’s
[00:54:27]
a lot of times it’s frustrating
when they leave.
[00:54:30]
But and the flipside,
[00:54:32]
I don’t know if it’s movement.
Well, yeah.
[00:54:35]
You hope it’s girl with a lot of times
[00:54:36]
it’s just movement
for the sake of change, kids.
[00:54:40]
But whatever the reason,
[00:54:42]
there’s always more clients.
[00:54:43]
So yeah I know.
Thing and move on.
[00:54:46]
Right.
I mean and it’s it’s hard.
[00:54:48]
Like I you know, even this week in talking
to my VA team as we’re trying to get some
[00:54:51]
stuff wrapped up, it’s like a bad breakup,
kind of like we’re
[00:54:54]
like I’m being nice to them and they’re
being nice to me and professional.
[00:54:58]
But you could tell, like,
because they loved working with our team.
[00:55:01]
And I think, you know,
[00:55:03]
and I think it came as a little bit
of a shock, but it was just one of those
[00:55:07]
things where I had to ask myself,
OK, what does my business need?
[00:55:11]
Mm hmm.
[00:55:13]
And the answer was, my business needs
depth that can grow with us.
[00:55:18]
Right.
[00:55:19]
And you almost have to pull the emotion
out of it and look at it straight up
[00:55:22]
logic, which is tough
for something like that.
[00:55:25]
I imagine,
especially in the case of that business,
[00:55:28]
you were probably
a healthy client for them.
[00:55:30]
Yeah.
[00:55:31]
So, no, that probably wasn’t
ideal in their world.
[00:55:35]
Right.
[00:55:36]
But there’s never there’s
never an ideal time for that.
[00:55:38]
Right.
Like no hard path.
[00:55:41]
There’s never an ideal time like it.
[00:55:43]
It’s painful whether I do it now
or I do it six months from now.
[00:55:47]
Correct.
Correct.
[00:55:48]
Yeah.
You know, Band-Aid.
[00:55:49]
Yeah.
I never an ideal time.
[00:55:51]
So sometimes you just have to make those
[00:55:53]
moves part ways,
close that door and then move on.
[00:55:57]
And yes.
[00:55:58]
And I’ve gotten better
at that over the years.
[00:56:00]
The more that I do it the a little bit
[00:56:03]
easier it gets where I feel less
emotional with some of those decisions.
[00:56:06]
But it’s taken time.
Yeah.
[00:56:09]
Yeah.
I told them, you know.
[00:56:11]
Yeah.
[00:56:11]
And nothing thickens the skin
like starting a business.
[00:56:14]
Right, right.
Right.
[00:56:16]
Well then I think one of the books that I
often recommend to people is a book by Dr.
[00:56:21]
Henry Cloud called Necessary Endings.
[00:56:25]
And it’s a book that talks about,
[00:56:27]
you know, we only have so many
uses, the example of a rosebush.
[00:56:31]
Right.
[00:56:32]
And like, you know,
we only have so much nutrients
[00:56:36]
that that that plant can have
sun, water, soil, whatever.
[00:56:40]
And we want to make sure
that by pruning the rosebush, we’re.
[00:56:44]
Really focusing those nutrients
on the ones that are most likely to be
[00:56:48]
able to live and get the biggest
and beautifulest and all that kind
[00:56:51]
of stuff is the same thing
with our businesses.
[00:56:53]
Right.
Like we have to look at.
[00:56:54]
OK, what do we need to prune off so
[00:56:56]
that we can really focus our energy
and our attention on the things that are
[00:57:00]
growing and working well
and continue to help us thrive.
[00:57:03]
And I think it’s easier to focus sometimes
on the wilted flower than the one that’s
[00:57:07]
growing and say we got to divert
resources from here to here.
[00:57:13]
That’s fair.
That’s only fair.
[00:57:15]
It’s an interesting analogy.
I like that.
[00:57:17]
I like.
So that’s a great book.
[00:57:19]
Rhonda, how can people get a hold of you?
Yeah, absolutely.
[00:57:22]
The best way to reach us is via the
website, which is WFWCdivorce.com.
[00:57:28]
All right.
[00:57:28]
That stands for Women’s
Financial Wellness Center.
[00:57:31]
Divorce.com.
You got it.
[00:57:33]
Yeah.
Awesome.
[00:57:34]
And all of our contact information is
[00:57:36]
on there as well as if anybody’s listening
that would like to book a strategy call.
[00:57:41]
There’s a tab right on there
that you can book those calls.
[00:57:44]
And we’re doing all of those.
[00:57:45]
I do all of those initial calls.
[00:57:47]
So anybody that calls will talk to us.
Talk to me.
[00:57:50]
It’s very cool.
They get the they get the Rhonda.
[00:57:53]
That’s right,
[00:57:57]
Rhonda.
That’s awesome.
[00:57:59]
This has been
a Authentic Business Adventures
[00:58:01]
the business program that brings you
the struggles stories and triumphant
[00:58:05]
successes of business
owners across the land.
[00:58:08]
We are.
[00:58:10]
I think we’re almost on episode 150,
so I’m excited for this.
[00:58:14]
Nice.
Rhonda, we’re I know that you’ve been
[00:58:16]
doing a podcast for a couple
of years now, right?
[00:58:18]
Yes.
[00:58:19]
So do you have a separate
link for your podcast?
[00:58:22]
The podcast actually can be
found on the website or iTunes.
[00:58:27]
iHeart radio, all that kind of stuff.
[00:58:28]
The usual suspects as far as that goes for podcasts.
Yes.
[00:58:31]
Yes.
[00:58:32]
Awesome.
[00:58:33]
My name is James Kademan
and Authentic Business Adventures is
[00:58:37]
brought to you by Calls On Call offering call
answering and reception services
[00:58:41]
for service businesses across the country,
on the web at CallsOnCall.com.
[00:58:46]
As well as, Draw In Customers Business
Coaching, offering coaching services
[00:58:50]
for entrepreneurs looking for growth,
on the web at DrawInCustomers.com.
[00:58:54]
And of course The BOLD Business Book,
[00:58:56]
a book for the entrepreneur in all of us
available wherever fine books are sold.
[00:59:01]
We’d like to thank you our wonderful
[00:59:02]
listeners as well as our
guest, Rhonda Noordyk.
[00:59:05]
Rhonda, thank you so much
for being on the show.
[00:59:07]
Hey, thanks for having me.
[00:59:08]
James, can you tell us your
website one more time?
[00:59:10]
Yes.
WFWCdivorce.com.
[00:59:13]
Awesome.
Past episodes can be found morning,
[00:59:15]
noon, and night at the podcast link
found at DrawInCustomers.com.
[00:59:19]
Thank you for listening.
We’ll see you next week.
[00:59:21]
I want you to stay awesome.
[00:59:23]
And if you do nothing else,
enjoy your business.
