How to Travel

Visit Katie at: https://travelmadejoyful.com/

[00:00:00.890] – Speaker 1
You have found authentic Business Adventures, a business program that brings you the struggles, stories and triumphant successes of business owners across the land underwritten by the bank of Sun Prairie. My name is James Kademan, entrepreneur, author, speaker and helpful coach to small business owners across the country. And today we are welcoming/preparing to learn from Katie Hensel, owner of Travel Made Joyful, which is the best way it should be. So Katie how are you doing today?

[00:00:26.080] – Speaker 2
I’m good. Thanks, James. I love the shout out too.

[00:00:31.130] – Speaker 1
So just so the crowd of viewers, listeners know, I’ve known you lots of years and you started out with Try for Kids and then can you tell us? I guess let’s go way back and talk about the transition. What made you decide to shift gears? Because it’s probably safe to say that these are not very related.

[00:00:56.710] – Speaker 2
Correct. I think, yeah, that’s a safe bet. I started Try for Schools in 2011 and built that from an idea in my head to an organization that had three full time staff and had year round programming and events and those kinds of things and was doing a lot of good in our community in Dane County here. But I started to just think that, gosh, in order for this to be truly successful, I really need this to be able to live beyond me. And if I ever decided I wanted to do something different, I wanted to be able to make it so that it was something that was sustainable and would be able to live on. And so I kind of started putting a plan in place. We had a strategic planning committee that met and kind of started building in a lot of the processes that you’d need to make sure that a business could survive that founder syndrome that started in 2019 and then lo and behold, 2020 came around and we had a pandemic to deal with. So we were kind of trying to keep things going but also continuing to build on that foundation.

[00:02:06.370] – Speaker 2
And it was during that summer that I sort of realized a couple of things I got to do a lot of traveling, surprisingly during the pandemic, a lot of planning and things like that to make sure we could go places that were open safely. And I realized, gosh, not only do I really enjoy this, but I’m pretty good at it. We figured out how to offset a lot of our costs and things like that and I was just really enjoying the extra time with my kids and we also kind of realized that gosh, they’re halfway to being out of the house at this point. And so I said, well, if I were to start a different career, I would really love to have it be a career that combined things that I really love to do, like travel and see new places with being able to spend a little bit more time with my kids while they want to be around me. And so we kind of thankfully try for schools, was able to navigate the Pandemic well and come out the other end. And so in September of 2021, I kind of started a transition, and we hired our new executive director, who’s doing a fantastic job, and she made the leadership transition incredibly smooth, and that’s going really well.

[00:03:19.060] – Speaker 2
So I realized, well, I now can feel free to kind of start something in this travel industry if I want to. That was kind of how things got started, and so it did feel a little bit like starting over, but it was a fun place to begin.

[00:03:37.510] – Speaker 1
Sure. That’s when you start a new business, right? This kind of the honeymoon period when you first started, after you’ve been with it for a decade, you’re kind of like, in that seven year itch period, I suppose, or something.

[00:03:49.960] – Speaker 2
Yeah. And everyone’s like, well, what happened? Or what went wrong? And I was like, well, nothing really went wrong. But do you ever just decide you want to do something kind of new and different, and it’s kind of one of those things, and you still want your baby to be in good hands, but you’re like, okay, our life is too short to, I think, do the same thing all the time.

[00:04:13.380] – Speaker 1
I agree. Yeah, I agree. I guess from my point of view, with the business, starting a business, getting the business going, rolling with it for a few years, after a while, it’s just like any other relationship where you’re like, I want to see what else is out there.

[00:04:28.870] – Speaker 2
You hold on to the ones that you really need to hold on to. But it’s good to see knowing what kinds of opportunities and things are available and knowing if it’s a possibility for you. For me, it was something where I have a really supportive husband who had seen my body of work by all the trips I’d planned for us as a family. And I think coming out of the Pandemic, I sort of thought, I think people are going to want to travel again. I think there have been a lot of these big realizations over the last two years that we’ve got to make the most of the time we have. And when it’s like, when something is taken away from you, you realize how much you really love it. When we couldn’t travel, I think people are like, oh, man, my whole life could go by, and I’d never go to Paris or those kinds of things.

[00:05:18.710] – Speaker 1
It’s interesting you say that, because there was a time that I felt I remember getting this feeling I was walking my dog, and I’m like, I feel like I’m in a prison. It’s a very large prison, right, because it’s essentially the size of the country.

[00:05:31.640] – Speaker 2
Right.

[00:05:32.200] – Speaker 1
Still, the fact that you can’t go beyond those borders to see my sister in Canada or just wherever, like that. I’m like, oh, this sucks.

[00:05:40.740] – Speaker 2
Absolutely. I wonder how many people have those same thoughts. I definitely did too, where I was like, well, I wasn’t thinking I wanted to go here right now, but now knowing I can’t, I’m like, no, that.

[00:05:51.650] – Speaker 1
The options taken away. Sure. Interesting. So I’m going to put a link to the first interview I did with you about Try for Schools and I don’t know how long ago that was. Three years ago, was it?

[00:06:06.680] – Speaker 2
Yeah, 2018. 2019.

[00:06:08.430] – Speaker 1
Four years ago. It’s been a while. It’s been a while back, and we could be in the studio with few.

[00:06:13.270] – Speaker 2
Things have happened since then.

[00:06:15.610] – Speaker 1
So I want to ask you just really briefly because we don’t have to hold onto the Try for School thing, but that was nonprofit. So did you own it or do you sell it or what?

[00:06:27.800] – Speaker 2
Nonprofit is sort of like owned by the people. It’s publicly part of the domain. So a lot of people ask that question, though. So really, I’m not an owner. I don’t own shares or stake in anything, so there’s nothing to sell. It’s just like passing the torch HR-wise by hiring someone else and those kinds of things, but they’re not bound to anything other than just like the Gosh rules of incorporation or articles of incorporation and bylaws so there’s oversight that way with the board of directors. But yeah, it was pretty easy on the legal end.

[00:07:12.650] – Speaker 1
So no money changed hands? No, essentially it’s a business. Even it’s a nonprofit business. There’s still blood, sweat and tears that went into that yes. Value to the brand. I mean, stuff, systems, all that jazz.

[00:07:26.920] – Speaker 2
Yeah. I feel like we had a pretty long transition. We hired Amanda in November, and until June, I had a goal of June 1 because that’s when my kids get out of school and I really wanted to spend the summer being with my kids. It’s been a dream of mine to be able to have one summer off with them. And so it was a seven month transition where it was kind of like the two of us side by side in a room or in meetings or a lot of meeting people and learning different processes going through. We got to go through almost an entire year’s worth of preparation just so she could kind of shadow that process. And I think that was really helpful. And then in the years prior, I’d already been kind of brain dumping things into documents so there would be, like, processes that were documented and stuff. And I think having an operations director as well was helpful because there was somebody that knew a lot of those back end processes that could also help with that. We’ve got great part time staff that were also, like, running our events and programs.

[00:08:29.610] – Speaker 2
So, like, knowing that there was a really solid core of people involved I think helped make that a lot smoother and really allowed me, at this point, to be completely separate. I’m a donor and a parent and volunteer, but that’s the extent of my involvement, at least for now.

[00:08:46.870] – Speaker 1
Got you. All right. Very cool. Then when you decided, hey, I’m going to back out or bow out of this try for school, saying, did you know that you wanted to start this business? Or did you have, like, hey, this is what I want to do. I want to start a business, or you’re just like, you know what? I’m going to be done with this, and I’ll figure out what I want to do later.

[00:09:05.840] – Speaker 2
Yeah, I definitely had an idea that this is what I wanted to be doing, but I really he wasn’t sure to what end or what capacity my goal was. I’d like for it to not be as many hours, because I was putting it around, like 50 hours a week, I’d say. And I was like, I’d like to have a little bit more flexibility and things like that, but I was like, I’d really love to just help people travel more, because travel has always been a passion of mine since the first time that I went to another country. And so I really want to be able to do that. But really the passion specifically was helping people with kids travel internationally, because I’ve seen what it’s done for our kids. Although I’d have to say, a lot of the people that I’ve been helping so far, it’s really a mix of people with kids and people without. So maybe just then I started to realize, well, gosh, I think the biggest hurdle for a lot of people is just time. They want to plan something, but they don’t really know where to start or, like, they’ve got so many other irons in the fire now that we’re all back to probably, like, what life looked like pre pandemic.

[00:10:14.530] – Speaker 2
It doesn’t leave a ton of time, right, to be planning a vacation, but it’s something where another world looks a little different, too. So what people did before might not always work now. So that’s why I was like, well, maybe I can just help people, but kind of taking one thing off their plates and maybe what also stresses people out a ton and say, like, Well, I actually love this stuff. Then it kind of started focusing in on that piece of it, and I think that helped because I was like, gosh, there’s some areas I really don’t want to help with of travel, and then there’s some that I’m really excited to help with.

[00:10:50.320] – Speaker 1
All right, what are the ones that.

[00:10:51.680] – Speaker 2
You don’t so this sounds kind of funny, but I’m an American and everything, but I’m like, I don’t really want to help people with domestic trips. It’s not my favorite. I’ll do it, but I want to help people get outside of the country because I feel like that’s where for me, at least a lot of the growth happens, right? And so I would love to do that. And it’s like also, the other thing is, like, all inclusive and the Mexico Caribbean, like, those things, that’s not really my jam. Again, I can do it, and I’ll probably do a good job at it, but if it were up to me, I would find somebody that really loved to do that stuff and have someone go do that with that. Got you, client. I realized national parks. I’ve been to a few of them. I think they’re awesome. But I know probably very little about that compared to someone else. Those areas where I’m like, let’s find somebody that’s good at that and help people do that that way. But yeah, I want to do international stuff.

[00:11:56.820] – Speaker 1
Got you. Interesting. You know, it’s interesting to say that about the all inclusive stuff, my wife and I got married in Jamaica. All inclusive?

[00:12:04.560] – Speaker 2
Yeah.

[00:12:04.940] – Speaker 1
It’s so funny because even though I say that I’ve been to Jamaica since we stayed at an all inclusive resort, I feel like I don’t know if we actually saw Jamaica.

[00:12:13.120] – Speaker 2
Totally right. And again, they are great for the purpose that you’re going for. Every trip can have its own goals. So the goal is, like, relax or like a destination wedding or I really just want to relax with my family on a resort. I don’t want to do anything. Then that’s like, where you should totally go. But I have a friend that said the same thing. They went to an all inclusive in Costa Rica, and they’re like, I don’t know that I’d say I saw or know much about Costa Rica because I was on the resort the whole time. For me, I’m like, I want people to be able to leave a trip being like, wow, I really feel like I experienced, even if it was just a portion of a particular place, that they really got out and kind of got off the beaten path a little bit, right?

[00:12:56.870] – Speaker 1
I love it. Have you always traveled or did you do this as a kid or did this just evolve as you grew older and on your own, more or less?

[00:13:05.320] – Speaker 2
Well, a little bit of both. So, like, we did some travel mostly to visit family when I was younger, like a young kid. My first time on a plane was seven, at age seven. And I went to San Francisco to visit my aunt and uncle, and we did the trips to Disneyland and Disney World. But when I was in high school, end of high school time was the first time that we kind of started going a little bit further away. Like, we went on a cruise, and that was the Caribbean. But still I was like, wow, I’m in, like, a different country. And they speak Spanish primarily on this island. That really opened up the world to me a little bit where I realized, wow, there are other places and there are people working on this ship from all over. And I thought, well, the more you get out and explore, the more people you meet, the more friendships and relationships you have. That kind of sparked something in me where then when I went to college, I had been learning Spanish, but I was able to study abroad in Santiago in Chile, and I lived there for six months.

[00:14:09.200] – Speaker 1
Oh, wow.

[00:14:10.670] – Speaker 2
And that experience, 100% was probably it changed my life, for sure, but was probably one of the best decisions that I ever made because while I was there, I was able to fully experience and be immersed in the culture and the language and those things. But also I was able to travel. I traveled to five other countries in South America when I was there and all over Chile, and so then it was like I was hooked from there.

[00:14:36.460] – Speaker 1
Nice.

[00:14:38.150] – Speaker 2
So it wasn’t a time when I was a kid, but it kind of inspired me to do more. And then you start kind of stepping out and people always talk about, like, the travel bug. Once you get it, you’re always trying to figure out, where am I going to go next?

[00:14:51.140] – Speaker 1
Yeah, that is so true. I can tell you I love to travel, but I think the first time I was on a plane was when I was 22, going to a buddy’s wedding in Vegas.

[00:15:03.380] – Speaker 2
Right? Well, I was going to say for you, I guess when you traveled, I’d be curious, what was it that you said? You love to travel. So was there a particular trip where that happened or like a place you went where you were like, wow, no, not necessarily.

[00:15:18.990] – Speaker 1
I just like meeting people and just chatting with new people, trying new food. You live your little secluded life and you see the same people day in and day out, and sometimes I feel like you forget there’s a whole other world out there or whole rest of the world out there.

[00:15:40.820] – Speaker 2
Yeah.

[00:15:41.410] – Speaker 1
I guess to me, it feels like the same as holding a minimum wage job. Like, you forget that there’s people that are working for, whatever, $78 an hour.

[00:15:52.900] – Speaker 2
Right.

[00:15:53.570] – Speaker 1
I don’t know if they actually are anymore, but in theory, there are people making minimum wage and you forget either the value of a dollar, just like you forget there’s other people. You become complacent.

[00:16:07.050] – Speaker 2
Right. Well, and on both ends of the spectrum, too, right. There are people where you’re like, wow, there are people that are living in Monaco, and then you’re like, well, there are also people living for less than a dollar a day in Zimbabwe and things like that. You’re just like, wow. And my world contains all of those people. So just feel like the amount of experiences and knowledge and things we can gain by getting out of our comfort zone is just exponential.

[00:16:34.990] – Speaker 1
Yeah, I think the people, I guess the most enjoyable people that I have to speak with or have spoken with are well traveled. I think it just helps them from a mental point of view. They have broader experiences, just so, I guess their life choices and the way they go about business or the way that they make their choices, I think are changed because they have more real world experience, I guess.

[00:17:01.980] – Speaker 2
Yeah. I’d like to think that the first time I saw what the United States American perspective was was when I studied abroad, where you get outside yourself and you can kind of look back and be like, oh, I can see how they think that, or gosh, it’s not really that way at all. And perceptions and stuff changed so much. But yeah, I think you’re totally right. I’d like to think that it helps you see things from multiple angles rather than just being really narrowly focused and stuff like that. And then primarily it seems like my biggest takeaway from travel has always been, and I don’t know if you’ve found this, but that the world is like in general, a good place full of good people. Right. You’re going to run into jerks everywhere, but they’re few and far between from what I’ve experienced. And most people are if someone’s running after you in a foreign country, it’s usually because you drop something and they want to give it back to you.

[00:18:00.970] – Speaker 1
Yeah, it’s interesting to say that how some people just have this fear of going outside of ten steps from their front door or something like that.

[00:18:08.960] – Speaker 2
Right, yeah. But then they don’t even realize you could get hit crossing the street or it’s like it doesn’t come to your mind that you can be unsafe anywhere.

[00:18:17.010] – Speaker 1
Totally. Yeah, absolutely. So tell me about the name Travel made Joyful. The presupposition there is that some people have less than joyful travel.

[00:18:27.120] – Speaker 2
Yes. What was kind of funny is I was trying to come up with a name for a while. It’s like when you’re going to write a title for a story or something and you’ve got the whole story, but I can’t come up with the title.

[00:18:40.880] – Speaker 1
No, I get it.

[00:18:42.310] – Speaker 2
And I was like, well, I really like to help make travel more fun and less work for people. And I keep thinking about how a lot of times people talk about when they’re on a trip and they’re just so stressed about the logistics of everything or like, is everybody having a good time? And whatever. And so at first I was thinking like, well, maybe travel made easy or something. But I’m like, well, but travel a lot of times isn’t easy for a variety of reasons, but you can make it fun if you change kind of like your expectations a little bit and try to think about things in a different way. And so I really just wanted to have people be excited and travel with a mindset that was one that was more of an abundance mindset. So I thought travel made joyful, made sense. And I thought when you think about it in your mind, you’re like, yeah, I want to be joyful when I travel. I was like, it might not always be easy, but it’ll hopefully almost all the time be a joyful thing. Maybe not that moment, but like when you look back on it, like a couple of hours or a week or a month later.

[00:19:46.810] – Speaker 1
So when you started this business, I want to talk about the logistics of going from like, hey, I like to travel, I can help people travel, I’m going to help people travel from that point to now, I got to make money doing this, I got to market this. How do you map all that out? Do you talk with people that have already done this or do you just figure it out from scratch? What was your process there?

[00:20:08.050] – Speaker 2
Yeah, it was a little bit of both. So thankfully, because of a trip for schools that was part of a couple of different networking groups, and through one of them I met a woman named Susan Choi. And Susan is a travel agent in her own right. So we went out for coffee and I said, I don’t know if you’re looking to mentor or take on additional people, but she said she was because she’s like, I’m really busy trying to and she does more individually, the stuff for individuals, but also then does small group culinary focus tours around the world through her company. And I was like, well, I love food and I love traveling and I love people, so you sound like someone I want to spend some time around. And she thankfully kind of took me under her wing and I helped her with planning trips for her clients for about six months and then found out so that she was basically part of a global it’s called the Global Travel Collection. So she’s like an independent contractor or like business owner underneath that big umbrella. And so I kind of decided to follow that same path.

[00:21:14.460] – Speaker 2
But Susan was great and kind of showed me the ropes for like six months or so before I kind of went on my own. And the great thing is we still kind of collaborate because her specialty areas aren’t the same as mine. We can refer clients to each other and things like that. I kind of was able to follow her lead a little bit, which was very helpful. Yeah. So I didn’t have to kind of start from scratch completely, but I was very thankful for the connection because that just allowed me to kind of get some experience, but on a training wheels basis first.

[00:21:53.350] – Speaker 1
So do you use her the same system that she does?

[00:21:57.540] – Speaker 2
Yeah, we use the same booking software for various things and we have access to all the same stuff. But I’ve still learned it’s a relationship game more than anything else. A lot of times it’s developing relationships with people in other countries or in other companies that can really help if you are looking for a particular thing. So that, I think, is what’s going to take me some time is trying to figure that out. And then the other kind of piece as far as really honing the brand and the marketing was when we were with Try for schools we went through it was called The Story Brand Methodology. Donald Miller writes the story brand, and I totally resonated with his system. And so I bought the book and so I literally took a notebook and read the book and made a bunch of notes and kind of went through the process on my own. And then I was able to use that to build my website and just kind of build the content and things I wanted to do with social media. But it was really nice not having the pressure to immediately be like, okay, I got to be making X dollars in the first month in order to make sure that I can feed myself and my family.

[00:23:14.830] – Speaker 2
So I was able to kind of just build by kind of getting the word out. And one of the ways I did that was actually with my trip to Jordan because I wanted to make a big splash. So that was honestly probably my most marketing dollars was investing and going on that trip. That doesn’t matter how I started strategy.

[00:23:35.320] – Speaker 1
Right, yeah, right.

[00:23:37.190] – Speaker 2
But that was with Susan. So she actually led that trip, and I got to learn from her on the trip, but also kind of make it a little like launching pad for my business as well.

[00:23:48.300] – Speaker 1
All right.

[00:23:49.070] – Speaker 2
Yeah. So that was really cool.

[00:23:50.860] – Speaker 1
So were you with that specific trip to Jordan? Were you with a bus full of people?

[00:23:56.170] – Speaker 2
No. So that’s the thing that I wanted to learn about because I was fascinated by Susan’s small group tours that she led, because I’ve only ever traveled with my family or by myself or whatever. I’ve never traveled as part of, like an official group. And that gives people, I think, for the most part, like group travel. Gross. I’m just going to be on a bus and wear a name tag the whole time.

[00:24:17.960] – Speaker 1
Yeah. I think of the Bahead movie where they’re going to Washington DC. With all the old people.

[00:24:22.390] – Speaker 2
Yeah, exactly. And I was like, that’s definitely not the most authentic way to see a place or to really feel like you got your own experience. So what she does is she curates these really small groups of people and they’re usually people that will get along, like maybe they have certain things in common or whatever. So we had eight people total on our trip, really small, so it was enough for a van, essentially. So we were part of a group but it felt like, honestly, just bigger family trip. And I didn’t know more than just Susan before I went, obviously, and my son, who came with me. But by the end of the trip, honestly, it was like I had a whole bunch of new friends.

[00:25:08.980] – Speaker 1
Oh, nice.

[00:25:11.570] – Speaker 2
If you get the right mix of people, let’s say you even travel with two or three families, which is kind of what I’m hoping to do. It’s a small group, but you know all the people, so it’s like, really could be like, five people or something.

[00:25:25.510] – Speaker 1
All right.

[00:25:26.330] – Speaker 2
Yeah. Well, that was super cool.

[00:25:29.050] – Speaker 1
When you explain what you do, I imagine people are like, wait, so you’re a travel agent?

[00:25:34.810] – Speaker 2
Absolutely. Like, every single time I feel like.

[00:25:39.920] – Speaker 1
With calls on call, I get that. So you’re an answering service. I feel like nails on a chalkboard kind of thing, but I get where you’re coming from.

[00:25:47.380] – Speaker 2
Right.

[00:25:47.840] – Speaker 1
Tell me, how do you answer when somebody’s like, oh, you’re a travel agent, right.

[00:25:53.890] – Speaker 2
What’s funny is oftentimes people are like, oh, so you’re just a travel agent? And I’m like, yes.

[00:25:58.850] – Speaker 1
I love when they put that.

[00:26:00.180] – Speaker 2
Yeah, I know, and I got that for nonprofit things too. They’re like, oh, so you just run kids events. I was like.

[00:26:10.390] – Speaker 1
Is this that easy?

[00:26:11.750] – Speaker 2
Hold on. Yeah, I’m just swallowing all my anger and rage right now. So it’s funny because we’re like, oh, so you’re like a travel agent. And I’m like, yeah. I was like, but I was like but I try to make every experience very unique and catered to each family. So I always say, I’m like, yeah. And then it’s funny because I think people in their heads have again, they have a picture of what that is, right? It’s a brick and mortar where you have a bunch of brochures and you come and you pick one. And so I say it’s funny. There’s all these cool buzzwords like bespoke and whatever, and customize whatever. So I try to be like, well, yeah, except that I really focus more on just, like, your individual family, and every trip I create is unique. So based on what you guys want to do and the cool thing is, because I know almost every single person that I’m planning trips for right now, or they’re a friend of a friend, there’s a vested interest in a trust built there, like, on both sides, hopefully. I think that’s maybe a little bit of a differentiator so I try to focus on those things.

[00:27:17.860] – Speaker 2
But you’re like you get it right on the head.

[00:27:23.230] – Speaker 1
Expectation here. One of the other questions that I have for you is when somebody comes to you, you’re like, Katie, I want to go travel, see the world. Do they typically have an idea of where they want to go, or are they looking to you for suggestions?

[00:27:38.930] – Speaker 2
Usually people have an idea of where they want to go, and in general. Or they say like they give a climate or a geography or something. Like I have something to go on. But what’s interesting is oftentimes people I’m doing a ton of Europe, like right now, like first time to Europe for people. And what’s funny is I almost have to like you got to rein people in because I think people see on a map, they see Europe and they’re like, oh my gosh, all these countries are so close together, we can see six of them in twelve days. And I’m like, okay.

[00:28:18.830] – Speaker 1
You could, but.

[00:28:20.050] – Speaker 2
You’D be moving, right? I was like, you could, but you would hate yourself and me afterwards. So, yeah, a lot of it is, like, trying to maybe, like, rein in expectations and also maybe talk a little bit about mindset and helping people understand how to get to and from, because a lot of times they’re really ambitious. And I’m like, but let’s think if you came to the United States for a week, you probably wouldn’t try to hit five states. You’d probably say like two, maybe three, depending on the number of times like time you have. And it’s similar like that with Europe. The states are like countries trying to help people understand. Except for Europe, there’s a lot of mountains in between. I’m like, look at turn your map on geography or like topography mode. So that’s why it’s going to take so long to get from here to there.

[00:29:16.450] – Speaker 1
I was watching a video on Spain and talking about how Spain has lots of people but all in very concentrated places, right? Because we have mountains.

[00:29:31.030] – Speaker 2
Yeah, a whole lot of nothing. So it’s kind of fun because you get to be part of somebody’s learning process. And I guess what I’m still also figuring out is like I want to recommend things. That’s what people are coming to me. Right. But at the same time, some of these things you just have to learn by being in it and doing it yourself. My pace isn’t always everybody’s pace, I guess. I in general move at a fast pace, but I try to slow down a little on vacations because I don’t want to be packing up my suitcase every other day. But some people, they’re okay with that. But I think if we want to be responsible and mindful travelers and really grow from the experience, it’s awesome to be able to just spend a little bit more time everywhere we go.

[00:30:17.270] – Speaker 1
That’s fair. Very good point. Very good point. So how do you market your new business?

[00:30:24.470] – Speaker 2
Well, right now it’s a lot of, I mean, I’d say on social is where I’m getting a lot of people and inquiries and stuff like that. And then otherwise it’s word of mouth and referrals from people. There are a lot of options as a travel adviser, I think is the now new word.

[00:30:42.990] – Speaker 1
People are advisor. I love it.

[00:30:44.350] – Speaker 2
All right, so you can do a lot of referral things through this big global company that I’m a part of as well, but I’m mostly just doing it for family, friends, people like that for now. So that’s how it’s working. And I guess I’m hoping that as people start traveling and they have awesome experiences, but then maybe they’ll either refer a friend, like that will continue, or they’ll be a repeat customer and want to come back for their next trip.

[00:31:18.010] – Speaker 1
Got you. Fair.

[00:31:19.240] – Speaker 2
Yeah, that’s the goal right now, anyway.

[00:31:21.340] – Speaker 1
All right, I love it. So tell me about the process. Somebody comes to you and they’re like, katie, I want to travel and I want to go see France. I don’t know, whatever.

[00:31:29.530] – Speaker 2
Yeah, I was working on two France trips today.

[00:31:32.080] – Speaker 1
Oh, nice.

[00:31:32.860] – Speaker 2
Perfect.

[00:31:33.600] – Speaker 1
I had no idea. So tell me about the process, about how you take that. Like, you want to go to France and spit out a trip on the other end of that machine.

[00:31:44.380] – Speaker 2
Yeah, so I kind of gave people a couple options with setting things up because sometimes they need everything from A to Z, and then other times they’re like, we already have this, this, and this booked, or we know we’re going to be here for this portion and we just need your help with this portion. And so I kind of have an hourly consult, sort of like, option where I’ll just kind of do a particular portion of a trip for somebody and then I also have a full planning. I will plan everything for your trip and then that works slightly differently. So there’s like a flat fee that just covers basically an interview session, like a planning session. And then it covers things like I have an app that people can use where I’ll organize everything for their trip that they can use, and it’s everything in one place. And then otherwise it’s hourly based on how far out their trip is. So, like, if someone comes to me and they want to travel in February, I want to help them. Right. But that’s going to make me reprioritize everything else that I’m working on. And so if your trip is a year from now, I’ve got way more time, and so if you come to me with advanced notice, you will pay less.

[00:32:59.130] – Speaker 2
So that’s kind of the way they’re doing it now. And then I always try to give people an estimate of, like, after that initial meeting here’s how long I think this would take. And then I give them a budget and say, like, eight to 10 hours. And the rate is this because your trip starts here, and then make sure that they have that information upfront. And then I always then will let them know when I’m getting close to that because I think with people’s kind of hesitancy towards using a travel adviser, I think a lot of it stems from, like, how are you getting paid? Or how do I know you’re not pushing me towards things where you get commission and that kind of stuff. And so I feel like if you take those pieces out and you’re like, look, I’m working hourly, and that sort of frees me up to just be like, here’s the best thing for you. And if it’s an airbnb where I get nothing out of it, that’s fine, because I just want to be paid for my time rather than being like, well, I don’t get paid for all the rail tickets I’m booking for you, but I still need to do it because you’re going to five cities.

[00:34:05.070] – Speaker 2
I think it just puts everybody on a more equal playing field. So that’s kind of like how the structure is set up. But with every client that wants to do a full trip. With me, I set up an hour interview and learning session, which is mostly just me asking them all kinds of questions because I want to know why they’re going on this trip, what do they want to learn, what stresses them out on trips, like some of those kinds of things. And I think a lot of times people just don’t go to that level. But that, to me, is where you can really make or break somebody’s trip.

[00:34:35.950] – Speaker 1
Got you. So is this these systems, these questions and all that jazz, is that something that you came up with on your own through your travels, or is this.

[00:34:45.370] – Speaker 2
Yeah, a lot of it is. I made up the whole interview process, and it was like so for a long time, like a year, I had a notebook, and anytime I had a question of like, oh, this would be a good thing to ask people, I would just write it down.

[00:35:01.090] – Speaker 1
Oh, nice.

[00:35:04.130] – Speaker 2
You probably can’t see it, but it’s my big ideas notebook. I kind of came up with all the questions just based off of things I’ve learned, so I’ve gone on a lot of trips with other family members, so, like, multi generational trips or whatever. And a lot of it was like, learnings from those trips of, like, oh, we should have known that so and so is not a morning person or that so and so really wanted to do this hike. And we’re all talking about doing these other things, and this person didn’t get the one thing that they really wanted to do. So we can bring people together, make sure everybody’s on the same playing field, and gets a chance to hear each other. Where I’ve seen trips go south, including some of my own, in various moments, is like, people just weren’t on the same page or people were rushed and they didn’t want to be rushed.

[00:35:53.570] – Speaker 1
All right, so we don’t have a ton of time.

[00:35:56.310] – Speaker 2
Horror stories, too, right?

[00:35:59.170] – Speaker 1
I can definitely imagine.

[00:36:01.980] – Speaker 2
Yeah.

[00:36:02.420] – Speaker 1
Tell me some of the tips for traveling that you could share with people from all your experiences, things that you’ve learned. Maybe the hard way.

[00:36:09.930] – Speaker 2
Yeah, sure. I know, right? Well, I think, again, those are the times that we probably learned the most right. Are the ones that didn’t go well. I guess for me, the first one is sort of the repeat. I mentioned this one earlier, but when you’re going to a new country or countries you’re going on a trip, I’d say I always say, take the number of days you have on the ground, like, not including your travel. Days and divide by three. And that should be your benchmark for like if we’re going somewhere for twelve days, we’re going to pick four at most, like, places to visit. Because I think people tend to again, underestimate the amount of time it takes to get to and from each place. So that would be one big tip for me. And I guess another one would be like, think about who’s going on your trip and really take everybody’s activity level and interest and stuff into consideration. Because I’ve learned from traveling with our kids that they’re not going to be able to move at the same pace as us and their interests are different. And so if I would have had all my own list of things I want to see and just drag them along on the trip, that’s not really fun for them and it’s not really fun for me then either.

[00:37:23.650] – Speaker 2
So trying to shift what you’re doing based on who you’re with and their interests and things like that, I think is another important tip. And I guess another one that I would say is be open to trying new things. Because I think a lot of times I’m not much of a museum person. I feel like I make myself sound uncultured when I say that I don’t.

[00:37:50.740] – Speaker 1
Want to read all the plaques.

[00:37:51.840] – Speaker 2
Right, right. I was like, oh, man, I don’t want to spend all day looking at but I went to a museum and instead I read something about how you can hire guys to guide you through different museums and stuff. And oftentimes you’ll learn a lot more because you just have the right person sharing stuff. And anything can be interesting if you know what you’re looking at or you know what you’re doing. So being open to exploring new things, but then maybe just doing it in a different way. So I think that is another good tip because I think we kind of short ourselves when we’re like, well, I don’t want to do this and I don’t want to do that. And you’re like, well, but what if this city is particularly famous for one of those two things, then why are you there? That’s, I guess another one that I’ve kind of learned.

[00:38:40.970] – Speaker 1
That’s so funny. I’m trying to think where my wife and kid were at. We were in man, I want to say it was St. Louis. I don’t know for sure what town we’re in, but anyways, this was a few years ago, it was pre pandemic, and there’s a famous art museum I want to check out. And I went in there, so my kid had to be six, five, six years old, something like that, and he took it. This has got to be the most boring thing that we’ve ever right. It’s kind of funny because I took art history classes and stuff like that when I was in college, so a lot of it was interesting. Not a ton, right?

[00:39:23.890] – Speaker 2
Well, I’m glad to hear you say that because I was like, as soon as you said you were art history, I was like, oh, no, I’ve totally outed myself to jeans.

[00:39:31.190] – Speaker 1
No, my wife makes fun of me because I’m the guy. When we go to a museum, I’m reading every single plaque, right? And she’s just like, A rock. Got it.

[00:39:42.640] – Speaker 2
Yeah. Moving on, moving on.

[00:39:44.970] – Speaker 1
And I’m like, no, don’t you get it? Because I read this plaque, right? This is a moon rock. Whatever. What actually had to happen for that rock to get in this place and be stored here and blah, blah, blah.

[00:39:54.980] – Speaker 2
Yeah, and I realized you can be interested in those things. For most kids, it’ll be for like an hour max. And they’re like, all right, cool, I’m done.

[00:40:05.090] – Speaker 1
I don’t even know if we got that. Maybe 15 minutes, right?

[00:40:08.520] – Speaker 2
But it’s like, there’s so many cool things now that you can do. I mentioned the guide, but I’m working with a family that’s going to Paris, and they want to go to the Loop, and there’s a company that does essentially, like, treasure hunts through the Loop for kids geared towards different ages and things like that. So you’re engaging your kids because, like, hey, let’s give them a cool thing, like a scavenger hunt. Most kids will be engaged in that. And people learn while they’re having fun, but they don’t realize it. But it’s just, like, engage people. And then it’s like the parents get to still see the art, but the kids are engaged, too. So it’s like trying to look at things in a different way or do that. Oh, other tip. I have to put this out there because, honestly, my favorite way to see a new city is to eat food in that place. I spend way too much time probably coming up with like, okay, here are the 50 restaurants you should see in your four day trip when you’re there, but you’re never going to do it. But anyway, we usually do a food tour in every city that we go to.

[00:41:15.030] – Speaker 2
And we do it on maybe the first or second day because you get the lay of the land a little bit and then you get to kind of like one sample a bunch of the local things so you feel like you’ve learned something. And you get to eat it too, which is the best kind of learning. And then three, you’ve got these cool places that you could probably get back to or go check out again later in your trip where you’re like, oh, we could go back here for dinner, or we could go hit up this bakery for breakfast another day. It’s just kind of cool to just know some things. Part of the discomfort of being in a new place is you’re like, I don’t know where anything is. I don’t know if this is good or not, but if you go on a food tour, they’re not going to take you to bad places.

[00:41:56.230] – Speaker 1
Interesting. It reminds me, my buddy and I go to a different town every year, just the two of us, knock out four days, and we both travel very quickly. We ended up in Boston quite a few years back.

[00:42:10.640] – Speaker 2
Wonderful.

[00:42:11.440] – Speaker 1
And we asked cab driver, Uber driver, whatever, where to check out. And I remember he’s like, you had lobster tails?

[00:42:18.740] – Speaker 2
Yeah.

[00:42:19.500] – Speaker 1
Like, what? No. He’s like, you got to check them out. So we were expecting lobster tails. And there’s an Italian pastry place that’s open 24 7365. I think it’s 365, whatever. There’s 24/7 when we were there. And lobster tails of this huge stuffed pastry with this huge well, that sounds amazing. We went there every night.

[00:42:44.870] – Speaker 2
Yeah.

[00:42:45.510] – Speaker 1
So we made so funny because we would end the night after food, drink, whatever, three in the morning, we’re getting.

[00:42:54.470] – Speaker 2
Done, get our lobster tail for the day.

[00:42:57.700] – Speaker 1
Yeah, it was crazy because we met some super cool people there, because even three, four in the morning, this place is bustling.

[00:43:04.160] – Speaker 2
Twenty four, seven. I mean, it’s like yeah, also, it’s like you can always just follow the, like, look for the, like, line of localish people out the door. And it’s probably a decent place. Like, we did that in Jordan and one of the places in Oman, and I was like, look at this line. And it was for, like, this awesome dessert pastry thing that people had or whatever, and I was like, well, obviously we’re standing in here, and it did not disappoint. So yeah.

[00:43:26.900] – Speaker 1
Nice, I guess. Love it. What is your favorite place that you’ve been to?

[00:43:33.330] – Speaker 2
So that’s tough, obviously, but we’re top.

[00:43:36.550] – Speaker 1
Three if that’s easier.

[00:43:37.570] – Speaker 2
All right, yeah, I’ll give you top three. It may sound cliche, and I don’t really know why, but Paris is my absolute favorite place. Just because you can go there, and in any neighborhood, your day is totally different, but you don’t have to really do anything to really enjoy the city. Right. Just walking around in Paris is a joy for me. I’ve been there four times, and it’s different every single time, and there’s always stuff to do.

[00:44:06.460] – Speaker 1
That’s incredible.

[00:44:07.410] – Speaker 2
I love that. But the country, I suppose my favorite overall trip that I’ve had so far is South Africa, and we did a safari, and it was probably one of the coolest things I’ve ever seen or done. Just getting up and it’s dark out and we’re watching like a pride of 20 lions in their cubs.

[00:44:28.850] – Speaker 1
Wow.

[00:44:29.700] – Speaker 2
Just things I will never, ever forget. But the Cape wine lands that are just inland from Cape Town are beautiful. I was like, how does nobody know about this but incredible food and wine and things like that. And then Cape Town is gorgeous. So South Africa is a country I want to take more people back to. So when I start my small group trips, that’s a place that I want to start is in South Africa. And then my favorite place that our family has been was Australia. And we were there only for like a couple of weeks. So we saw Sydney, we spent a week in Sydney, and then we spent a week up by the Great Barrier Reef. But I actually got an Australia certification through their department of tourism. And so we loved it because Australia was just beautiful. Good food, good weather, wonderful people, lots of nature like ability to be outside almost all the time. But there is so much to do in that country. I was like, I want to go back so I can explore all the different regions and stuff now.

[00:45:32.190] – Speaker 1
Nice.

[00:45:32.750] – Speaker 2
But those are probably my top three.

[00:45:34.760] – Speaker 1
All right. And how about travel tips? Just universally?

[00:45:38.930] – Speaker 2
Yeah. Okay. So one is be adaptable. Don’t get too caught up in your itinerary because things will go wrong that are out of your control. That’s maybe a hint for life. But I feel like we’ve all learned that, right, a lot in the last few years. But I think being adaptable and just knowing that we can be upset about something when it goes wrong for a little bit, but then we’re going to have to figure something else out. So trying to just move on and be like, what can we do here? And I think letting it go and being like being action or solutions oriented will help you in a number of circumstances. So that’s probably my number one. And then honestly, the other one is just be kind, just be nice because it’ll probably get you a lot further. Right. And then it just feels better because also you’re representative of your country. You’re representative of so many things, like when you travel. And so if you share kindness, that’s going to leave an impression on somebody, I guess. If I had one more, if you have kids, bring them along because people are just a lot nicer in general when kids are involved.

[00:46:53.530] – Speaker 2
Every place we’ve taken our kids, people are just so unbelievably kind to them.

[00:46:58.520] – Speaker 1
Sure.

[00:46:59.380] – Speaker 2
And I think they’re more patient with us, too, because we have our children with us and just expose them to new places and new people and different things. Our kids, they’ll eat pretty much anything you put in front of them. And I don’t know many kids that will say that, but we’ve been bringing everywhere and being like, just try it. If you don’t like it, you don’t have to have more, but just try it. And they’ll try everything and oftentimes are like, oh wow, I like this. And sometimes it’s stuff they wouldn’t eat at home, but they eat it when they’re over in a new country because they’re like they’re open and trying more new things.

[00:47:34.870] – Speaker 1
Sure. Not every place has chicken nuggets, right?

[00:47:37.540] – Speaker 2
Exactly. Well, oftentimes it’s like in France, for example, it’s like kids meals are usually like chicken or something like that, but they’ll get kind of similar food. It’s just presented differently. And then it starts this like, oh cool, I can eat all different kinds of things.

[00:47:57.610] – Speaker 1
I love it. And then final question before we get going here.

[00:48:01.660] – Speaker 2
Yeah.

[00:48:02.000] – Speaker 1
You’re on an airplane for different opinions. Right. Do you talk to the person next to you? Oh man, that’s interesting that you have to delay on this.

[00:48:12.260] – Speaker 2
Yeah. So what’s funny is I’ll usually say hello, but I am not really one to strike up conversation with people on a plane.

[00:48:21.330] – Speaker 1
Really?

[00:48:22.160] – Speaker 2
Yeah. It might be because oftentimes I’m traveling with my husband or with my kids, and so my husband and I get a chance to finally talk like the two of us, because oftentimes so I’m like, Yay, we can actually sit and talk to each other uninterrupted for several hours or helping with my kids, but I’m usually not the person to start the conversation. If somebody talks to me oftentimes, I’ll respond back. And I’m always kind, but I’m not usually like, let’s make friends and be friends with but also I kind of really love being I never get to watch movies, so if there’s movies on the plane, I’m like, yes, I’m going to watch all the movies I’ve missed for the last six months. It’s like my me time. I don’t know. You probably are the person that does talk to the person next to you.

[00:49:10.240] – Speaker 1
I will try.

[00:49:11.840] – Speaker 2
Yeah.

[00:49:12.340] – Speaker 1
And I’ll just base it on their body language or anything if I keep it going or not.

[00:49:16.930] – Speaker 2
Right.

[00:49:17.640] – Speaker 1
But then there’s sometimes the last trip is an interesting flight. I was in the middle, which sucks.

[00:49:25.560] – Speaker 2
Yeah.

[00:49:26.930] – Speaker 1
The guy next to me, he was a rock. I don’t even know if he was alive. Had a pass at the end of that flight.

[00:49:33.580] – Speaker 2
Yeah, sometimes those are funny stories.

[00:49:35.650] – Speaker 1
Yeah. He didn’t want to talk at all. I said, hey, how’s it going? When I came into to get the seat.

[00:49:41.190] – Speaker 2
Yeah.

[00:49:41.790] – Speaker 1
And I think I got a grunt back.

[00:49:43.710] – Speaker 2
Yeah.

[00:49:44.520] – Speaker 1
So whatever. But I ended up talking to the woman that was sitting next to me for a little bit. You could tell she was just like, whatever. So it was like, hey, how’s it going? But then we got talking about something and then he like, perked up. No, you don’t want to talk, buddy. Back at dawn.

[00:50:01.510] – Speaker 2
Well, I know you’re like, Wait a minute, go back to sleep.

[00:50:04.170] – Speaker 1
Yeah, he didn’t say anything, but you could tell like he was clearly eavesdropping and I guess he was six inches away from us, so it’s probably worth it.

[00:50:12.400] – Speaker 2
Yeah, I know, right? It’s almost impossible not to at that point.

[00:50:15.590] – Speaker 1
Yeah. I just feel like if we’re going to touch elbows for 3 hours, maybe I should know your name, right?

[00:50:20.040] – Speaker 2
Yeah, exactly. I don’t think I’ve ever had bad conversation with someone on a plane. Sometimes it’s like somebody that’s usually just getting somewhere or they’ve got to kind of into those kinds of things. But yeah, the people that are like loud snorers or like those things for a good story afterwards too.

[00:50:44.130] – Speaker 1
All right. I hope I’m not a loud snore, but who knows?

[00:50:47.060] – Speaker 2
No one ever know. One time I felt I did the head bob thing, fell asleep. Did that thing where you fall asleep and then you wake up suddenly and I shot both of my arms out to the side. So I hit the person on the side of me and I was like, oh, I’m so sorry.

[00:51:02.450] – Speaker 1
That’s awesome. That’s awesome. Reason to get the window seat.

[00:51:07.130] – Speaker 2
Yeah, exactly. They’re like trapped in there.

[00:51:10.090] – Speaker 1
Oh, that’s funny.

[00:51:12.950] – Speaker 2
Yeah.

[00:51:13.350] – Speaker 1
But I guess in the end I like getting people’s story. Obviously. Here we are.

[00:51:18.790] – Speaker 2
Yeah. I feel like you’re one of the most social people I know and kindest and friendliest, so I’m sure you have probably made a positive impact on a lot of people’s lives.

[00:51:28.140] – Speaker 1
Well, I hope so. I guess I was going to say you probably take that to a level that I can’t even touch.

[00:51:34.270] – Speaker 2
Well, that’s very nice to say. Again, there is like this nonprofit mentality that’s like, I just want to make the world a better place. I’m sort of learning that you can do that and not just run a nonprofit. You can do those things in profit as well. But you’re still doing good. So it’s been a neat growth experience for me, I guess.

[00:51:55.330] – Speaker 1
Fair. Totally fair. I love it. Well, Katie, thank you so much for being on the show. Tell us where can people find you?

[00:52:02.420] – Speaker 2
Sure. Well, thanks so much for having me too. I really appreciate it. I always love talking with you so you can find me at travelmadejoyful.com. And then I’m also on Facebook and Instagram at Travelmadejoyful and we just started a YouTube channel as well. So my son and I so you can search TravelMade Joyful on YouTube and find us there.

[00:52:21.620] – Speaker 1
Awesome. Travelmadejoyful.com. I love it.

[00:52:24.880] – Speaker 2
Thanks.

[00:52:25.810] – Speaker 1
This has been Authentic Business Adventures, the business program that brings you the the the the the struggles, stories and triumphant successes. The land we are locally underwritten by the banks of Sun Prairie. If you’re listening to this on the web or watching it, of course you can do us a huge favor. Give us the big old thumbs up, hit that subscribe button and of course, check out that other video by Katie and leave comments below, letting Katie know where you would love to travel, where you have traveled, and if you talk to people on the airplane, always good to know. My name is James Kademan and Authentic Business Adventures is brought to you by Calls on Call, offering call answering and receptionist services for service businesses across the country on the web, Calls on Call and of course, the bold business book for the entrepreneur and all of us available wherever find books are sold. We’d like to thank you, our guest I’m sorry. We’d like to thank you, our listeners as well as a guest, Katie Hensel, owner of Travel Made Joyful. Katie can you tell us that website one more time.

[00:53:20.130] – Speaker 2
Sure. It’s travelmadejoyful.com

[00:53:23.820] – Speaker 1
Awesome. All one word.

[00:53:24.900] – Speaker 2
No one word.

[00:53:26.560] – Speaker 1
Oh, that is super cool. You got that domain.

[00:53:28.860] – Speaker 2
I know, I was like, how to snap that up?

[00:53:31.170] – Speaker 1
Who knows? To that? Past episodes can be found morning, noon, night podcast link. drawincustomers.com. Thank you for watching. We’ll see you next week. I want you to stay awesome. And if you do nothing else, enjoy your business. Thank you.